How to raise replayability? How to make your warrior more different from previous one?

How about bringing character outfit dependancies on allingment, even on his actions?

Idea is not new and unique, it was first implemented in Black and White.

In two words, the more good things you do, the more quests you solve in a good way the better you become. You start to look like a nice person, in bright colours, with positive face animations.

You know all those attributes in character outfit that make you decide whether character is good or evil.

And vice versae the more evil things you do the more evil-look you become, having eyes glowing with hate, prolly dark-red skinned, with lightnings sparking below your head. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Nice suggestion Egin. Your suggestion might have some limitations as in the size of the game, but nevertheless, very good suggestion. For example, if you were a thief, who would want to talk to u and help u out because you would be all dark and such.

later

Right, because I am a thief, I am robbing people, not speaking to them.
People will react accordingly, so thief has his own strategy in achieving his goals (thieving, backstabbing, lockpicking). And people's attitude to thief is something different than for example attitude to a paladin. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Does it make sence?

And if I am, lets say, mage from a black magic school, most people will run in fear after noticing me, only strong or dark hearted will talk to me.
This is the way of good and evil IMO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

You forgot a colourful Aura. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

yep, black mage school, and pickpocketing <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />

I don't really find the prospect appealing. We don't have a plague hanging from our neck, or a brand on our foreheads, to tell our alignment, now do we? Reputation, as is, is a lot more logical. (Maybe implement a counterpart. If you're with the thieves' guild, for example, you increase your "reputation" in the underworld.) Besides, evil people don't always look evil. You, of all people, should know that. What with TNO being zombie-like and can still persuade people using those dark, murky, charismatic eyes of his - irrespective of his alignment. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

mmm but it would look good. i mean if u make a gme too realistic noone would want to play it. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />

Hi Winterfox,

Are you sure you really can't? It is often enough to just look at the person to see. And that are not only eyes that say.

But, sure, I agree, stating that:
- ohh I can say is he good or bad 100%, it's enough to just look at him -
is very childish and wrong. Nothing is 100% in RL.

This is much more complicated matter, as people use "masks" to hide their true nature.


But this is game. In a game/fantasy world attitude or nature can be underlined. It can become more visual, depencible on actions. Purpose? - fun, replayability, interaction.
Why not?

And auras will not hurt at all <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

It is a concept. Thief will not be able to walk on the streets of the city during daylight. Citizens may recognize him and become hostile/call for guards.
He will have to sneak at night staying away from big streets. He is silent asassin, he doesn't has friends, his only friend is poisoned dagger, his best ally is night and shadows (and good examples are - Splinter Cell, Thief series).
And as far as reputation is concerned, you are absolutely right. Thief may have high reputation among thieves.
Can thief have honour and be therefore respected among people of honour?

Disagreeable people can be good. People who dislike you (and thus stare at you with death glares) are not necessarily evil. So, no, I'd say that it can't be determined just by looking.



There are some cases that men (okay, people, to be Politically Correct) of dark professions must have a, ah, trustworthy reputation. No one would want to hire a double-crossing, unreliable thief or assassin to do one's job, yes? That's one form of "honor". Another instance is that, if you are known as a skilled thief/assassin/what-have-you, people of the same profession are unlikely to cross you. So reputation is definitely important.



Oh, I do beg to differ. Overly "realistic" nuisances such as needing food and drink aside, I'm sure many people would want a game with a fair amount of realism. It can add depth to the story, even. (Opposing factions, actually getting hunted down for committing certain deeds, having options to join with a faction of your choice, actually having to persuade people to help you, et all.) There is a reason, after all, that some aspects of Morrowind appeal to some people. (Including me. A shame that the gameplay, once reaching a certain point, is completely gah.)

Winterfox

<<<Besides, evil people don't always look evil. You, of all people, should know that. What with TNO being zombie-like and can still persuade people using those dark, murky, charismatic eyes of his - irrespective of his alignment.>>>


TNO is another story IMO.

First, he is still zombie-like, not angel like. Looking at him you barely can say his allingment is positive. Dead-skinned, tattoed and scared and actually people treated him according to his outfit.

People, who decided to join him, all had their own torments as TNO has his. They hoped, that walking his path, they can somehow solve their own troubles.

He just didn't care much for them and used them to achieve his goals. Even that girl Dejonarra, she loved him. TNO let her die just to give him possibility to escape Fortress of Regrets.

And last thing. Do you think art of persuation belongs to positive allingment?

Of course. People, despite what they pretend, take things at face value first, for it is appearance that they first encounter.



IMO, most people use and manipulate each other to some extent. If you love someone, you want to be with him/her not only for his/her happiness, but also yours. It is a form of selfishness. Another thing is that, if they didn't at least care a little for TNO, they wouldn't have joined him in the case of Morte, FFG, and Annah.



Ah, but that's the Practical Incarnation, is it not?



Hardly. I said, irrespective of alignment. Charisma can come in any form, with anyone. It is just a trait, nothing more.

Disagreeable people can be good. People who dislike you (and thus stare at you with death glares) are not necessarily evil. So, no, I'd say that it can't be determined just by looking. >>>>

Okies, defending my idea futher, here is another argument. Trying to bring the concept into the game, being evil guy, looking like evil guy (dark skinned, dark clothed, surrounded by black auras or whatever) he still can smile nicely, looking at you with his glowing red eyes, he still can persuade, like that snake persuaded Eva in Eden <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

The question is, how deeply developers will want to bring this concept into life?
How people will react to different outfits?
How outfits will depend, and in what way, on different actions and general allingment?

Of course. People, despite what they pretend, take things at face value first, for it is appearance that they first encounter.

Yes, and this is what I wanted to say.

<<IMO, most people use and manipulate each other to some extent. If you love someone, you want to be with him/her not only for his/her happiness, but also yours. It is a form of selfishness. Another thing is that, if they didn't at least care a little for TNO, they wouldn't have joined him in the case of Morte, FFG, and Annah. >>>>

Hmm, fiendling girl and thiefling had some feelings towards TNO. So they cared. They cared because they knew if he fails they fail also.

But, still all of them wanted to stay with him (even rogue modron), after accomplishing their goals. That's because he changed and they have changed also finding relief of their torments.
Look at my signature <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> It is wrong at this point.


About selfishness of feelings. Ohh, yes, you right, I can add even more. People care on themselves first and on their beloved ones second.
One kind of black example, when beloved one passes away, what first thing people say ? - How will I live without her/him. (revisited - how will me and my ego live without), so they regret about themselves having hard times, not about their beloved ones. But, again, this is not 100% pure truth, this is RL.


Ah, but that's the Practical Incarnation, is it not?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> exactly.

<<<Hardly. I said, irrespective of alignment. Charisma can come in any form, with anyone. It is just a trait, nothing more.>>>>>>

Right, it is a tool, like cooking knife. You can cut tomatoes and God knows what else, depencible on your alingment, readiness for action, feelings, like hate etc.

I was thinking, good and evil are very fine lines.

Consider the dwarfs and the elves. Both are good, noble races, interested in keeping their own affairs. But bad stuff happens and they each accuse the other of being evil and comitting crimes against them. If you took up the dwarfs side, the elves would see you as a colaborator of evil. The dwarfs, on the other hand, would see you as a champion of the forces of good.

Good and evil is subjective. I think the guy that wants to cut off my phone is evil, even though I'm sure he's just a good person doing his job.

what about orcs and demons? There some of my closest alies! But there what most people call F**K**G evil!

Yes! *heart* Where were you when Setharmon was slamming, "Good and evil are like black and white, period" on the debate table? (My eyes have been stuck in a rolling loop since.)

You become such a nice person that your so bright you blind everyone while the evil theif steals from the blind and now poor. Then to ruin everything and have evil triumph again, the theif kills the good person with the bright aura. What an ending.....

the orcs arent evil just misunderstood. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> and anyway they are hounerable people they have been exploited by their leaders and the Black Ring. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/alien.gif" alt="" />

If there's rainbows and strips along with pokadots on my warrior character, i'll kill myself!!!

Gay pride characters!

You guys went really far in making lawful good warrior loog like an idiot, even more of that, look like gay, yek. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

But then, also the female version.

Somehow I don't think combat-boots are obvously good. And besides, not all good people are gay. Female characters could be fairies!

P.S. I realise the "combat-boots" reference is a bad stereotype and I know that it is not general true (just covering my [nocando]).

oh [nocando]! that sounds bad! very bad! I'm glad to be a motherfricken thief!

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> I don't get out that often and travel far. Whats "nocando" mean? I saw it used several times. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

Any words in the forum's list of swear words get replaced with [nocando]. This reduces profanity, but means you can not describe a bas.tard sword without deliberately miss-spelling it.

You can't say <boing> on the radio.....

How come they have a little alien smiley face with its middle fingers raised (obviously a f-ck you gesture) but they have the censorship filters on?

The question is, how well this will be implemented.

Again, idea was to make character's actions influence his overall look (i.e. outfit, auras).
Sure, developer can make lawful-good characters look like a pokemons (or gays if you want Handefood), with stupid cartoonish auras, ha another example - asterix & obelix <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />. And I don't want this to happend ,period.

But, provided developer puts some serious efforts, creativity, design into making these changes remarkable - characters may really look awesome whether being evil or good, mages or warriors.


PS BTW what are combat-boots ?

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> Might be refering to Military boots i dunno <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

Search me.

Oh, by the way, speaking of the female version, it made me think of this, for some reason. *snerk*

Heheh, saw that on a thread in the Interplay community forums. Yeah, the female characters (except for mage) look pretty risque when naked. But they're naked... When fully equipped in plate armor, plate leggings, etc. they look damned dangerous. The male warrior is almost totally topless when naked, too... but that's another story. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

I think alignment would definitely help DD a lot, but it would also make it too similar to D&D. Maybe a different alignment system should be put into place, like instead of "lawful good" you have the "knighthood" alignment, which would be difficult to obtain. Instead of "chaotic neutral" you have the "selfish bas-tard" alignment, with all the appropriate descriptions therein. Something like that would be interesting.

As for appearances, the more options the better. I always wanted to see wings on my character especially after she attained godhood. I also wanted to see glowing swords, or at least colorful swords like those death knights have. More = better.

Stereotypical militant lesbians wear combat-boots, have deep voices, and hate all men.

That reminds me, what was up with the voice of the female warrior in DD? I stopped playing her because it just got on my nerves. The female mage voice was too snooty for me, so I generally stick with the survivor, who sounds pretty good. Yes, I'm anal about voices.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />How would you tell the difference between Chaotic Good <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/suspicion.gif" alt="" />and Chaotic Neutral? The pains of straying of the path of ones alignment but to find one's self again? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> What if your on the borderline of both Chaotic Good and Chaotic Neutral? What then? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ouch.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> Is alignment not how society as a whole views an individual? What if the individual views society differently? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thank the lord D&D is not <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/div.gif" alt="" /> or else we'll have to argue that one all day. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

Unless DD goes with a 3d engine their "custom" looks department is always gonna be a little bit smaller I think. (DD2 isn't planned as 3d is it, I've just seen rift runner ss that obviously weren't 3d? Frankly I hate the look of 3d engine rpgs anyway, except morrowind) I may be mistaken here, but I've heard that it's just too difficult to build a vast variety of "looks" with a 2d engine, because every frame of animation has to be drawn. (whereas 3d objects can just be shaped out of a few polygons, textured, and attached to your char model).

In Project Ego, the appearance changes according to many things. Read the post here and follow the link: it's simply amazing, even if it's for Xbox.

Project Ego which is Peter Molyneux(sorry can't remember the spelling)'s work? personality that changes the appearance of a character has happened in Black & White which is also from the same guy. if we're not going to zoom all the way to first person mode, then i don't see much point other than just looking good/bad. but then some of us like things that way..... .

Yikes! sorry Egin, i forgot that u have mentioned B&W.

Well, I'd like to look evil <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

on the other hand, a glowing mage might not be a bad idea

or a glowing mage's cloak. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

And a glowing mage's stick <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

MMm.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" />

or a glowin mage?
(creating a secretly loophole in this forum <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/badsmile2.gif" alt="" />)

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shhh.gif" alt="" /> glowing mage's pants should be confusing enough <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/stupid.gif" alt="" />

lol
hehehe

And then the mage sais; "hey baby, you want to see some magic from my pants?" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

Or from my hat. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Is that a glowing mage's stick in your pocket or you're just happy to see me? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

actually it's kinda a good idea....it would make added light, for those dark dungeons, or dark moonless nights wandering the land with your scorpion boots of nightvision, and the Helmut of Radience..... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> added visual area,
can you see now.... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/think.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Or just put glowing pants on a spear and use it as a torch during the night.

Actually, yes, you are right Jurak, besides just looking cool, glowing weapons and armor can have good practical use in dark areas.

Would this be a bad time to mention Gandalf's trick with his hat? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/delight.gif" alt="" />

I think my mind's too clean to fully understand the meaning of your post <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

What if an evil character will have glowing eyes which are used like two flashlights? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

Secret Diaries of Cassandra Claire

I pity the evil assassin who's trying to sneek up on people in the dark. They'd have to keep their eyes closed so as to not be spotted.

Creeping forward... creeping forward... I hope there's no rakes there. What's this? Oh, it's a fence. Over the fence... creeping forward... What's this? Oh, it's human! "Excuse me, are you Kirnmath? I've got a contract here for your head."

*Evil asssassin in a rake & mousetraps factory* [tribute to Sideshow Bob from Simpsons].

Ahh, was a while I read LOTR diaries <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />

Bleah... I'm thinking more along the lines of some very warped version of Sailormoon.

*shudders*

I think more detail could be put into summoning. In a sense, DD1 was entirely based on summoning the God of Chaos, right? I want to be able to summon more than a dreadknight and some skeletons...

By the wa<y, why is summoning only related to some dark, deadly figures ?

I mean that summoning Skeletons, Demons, Lichs, whatever is quite normal in an RPG. Everything nice dark and gritty.

Why aren't some lighter creatures to be summoned ? Fairies, for example ?

Are RPG players so that they just can'tcope with "cute-looking" creatures, especiually whwn they are summoned ?

And why do the big bad bosses often so poverly cool and the "Good guys" so boring ?

Time to recall some clichés, I'd say ...

Yeah... I remember bitching about the cool and ugly stuff some time ago. Glad to find another mate who shares my sentiments. C'mon, even the most ordinary of soldiers will find ways to look presentable, so that the army can have self-esteem.

Why not just put in some light stuff like faeries, unicorns, etc.? That way... players can choose whether to summon them or not. I'd love to see monkeys or orang-utans, though. It gets boring having the same fantasy stuff again and again: isn't fantasy about having imagination?

Edit: Just 'cos the setting for a certain dimension is European medieval, doesn't also mean that other dimensions should be the same either. It'd be nice to see eh, Africans, Asians, etc.

I think that comes from the fact that necromancy requires bodies, and bringing pepole back from the dead isn't particulary nice. The same goes for demons, they allready exist (and they're all evil! EVIL!), and you can bring them up by useing a gate. How would you summon (say) a fairy? Bring her here from Neverland through a gate? And wouldn't be cruel to rip her from that world into our cold, hard world?

Übereil

Hmmm... aren't those assumptions that a definite race is evil and another race good, that "fairy land" is nicer than the dimension of the summoner?

And... there could be ways of performing summoning like contacting said person beforehand and having their implicit understanding and consent before attempting it or even establishing codes of conduct among fellow practitioners like what you should do and what you shouldn't.

Well, raising people back from the dead would depend too on their feelings about it: perhaps said person has been waiting for you to do it, so they can find redemption or for whatever purposes and intentions they've got. Whereas a vengeful person might be angry at you for doing so: she simply wants an outlet to vent her anger and her other negative feelings.

Ah ! A like-minded person ! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

But in fact I see that almost all european RPGs are rather dark somehow. Seems to be some kind of "[cultural] tradition" regarding RPG development. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

However, Sacred was rather an exception of the rule. Everything felt and looked so "light" ... Maybe that also had to do with 90 % of all content sil "belonging" to the game called "Armalion", and was never moved out ...
Therfore I strongly believe that Armalion would've been quite a unique and different gaming experience.

Yeah and conversely, a lot of rpgs by Asian developers are really light and cheery. I hope that the next gen game will simply just pave its' own way instead of sticking to some strict vision of "dark and twisted" or "light and cheery". On one hand, tons of dead bodies hanging from a castle's moat isn't a pretty sight. On the other hand, I really don't want to see some cheesy vision of a psychedelic dream: too many floating colours to count.

But going by the looks of the "test graphics" we've seen, you can bet it won't be "in your face: dark and grimy" but rather cool with likely mostly subtlety of grim and even horror.

Sacred, huh? Yeah it's definitely pretty for its' time. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />