Larian Studios

Please post impressions.

Posted By: Buliwyf

Please post impressions. - 29/04/04 10:40 PM

I see a lack of impression posts. Perhaps you are all playing
Posted By: Claws

Re: Please post impressions. - 29/04/04 10:42 PM

Great game, too busy playing. :P
Posted By: LordMalis

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 03:06 AM

I'm still in act 1 but I've been to the battlefields. All I can say is that its GREAT!!! Voices are cool, graphics are similar to the first one(which I think are spectacular), and the gameplay is what you would expect from Larian, phenomonal!! Alright, back to playing!
Posted By: janggut

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 03:44 AM

if people write good impression on the game, i'll be glad that the game is good. if people are just too busy playing & enjoying it, well that tells me that i'm not getting mine soon enough. dagnabbit!
Posted By: cloudia

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 05:02 AM

more impressions plz!
Posted By: Killbomb

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 06:02 AM

Well, for one, I miss the personal traits screen that was in DD. After leveling up, I would always check the traits screen to see if the description had changed. I also miss the timestamp that was on the quests in DD. Neither one is a huge deal, but I wonder why they were removed.
Posted By: Kalkren

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 07:58 PM

I also miss the personal trait screen . I was sad to see it go.
Posted By: Buliwyf

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 08:16 PM

Quote:

Well, for one, I miss the personal traits screen that was in DD. After leveling up, I would always check the traits screen to see if the description had changed. I also miss the timestamp that was on the quests in DD. Neither one is a huge deal, but I wonder why they were removed.




agreed, I miss these two things as well.
Posted By: Killbomb

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 08:18 PM

A couple more things...Why was the experience bar removed? It was nice to be able to see at a glance how close you were to leveling up. Also, I don't like conversations not closing automatically when they're done. It's kind of annoying to have to click close every time. It wasn't like this in the demo...why change? Yeah, I'm nitpicking but if it ain't broke...
Posted By: kay26

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 09:37 PM

theres no automatic scrolling in the game, the manual scrolling gets dam tedious, the character pictures and interface are badly placed as it obstructs lot of the playing field,also potions and stuff are awkward to access in battle,i guess it was hard to do otherwise cuz you can control 2 chars now, its a very good game and i do enjoy it a lot but i cant help noticing some amateurish design decisions.
Its just nitpicking of course, for me this is a great game that just keeps getting better as you play it, something very few games can boast nowadays
Posted By: Tovi

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 09:40 PM

But there is automatic scrolling. Keep your mouse button pushed down, and the camera will automatically follow your main character while you walk around with the left button pressed.
Posted By: Chroniss

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 09:43 PM

Quote:

theres no automatic scrolling in the game, the manual scrolling gets dam tedious, the character pictures and interface are badly placed as it obstructs lot of the playing field,also potions and stuff are awkward to access in battle,i guess it was hard to do otherwise cuz you can control 2 chars now, its a very good game and i do enjoy it a lot but i cant help noticing some amateurish design decisions.
Its just nitpicking of course, for me this is a great game that just keeps getting better as you play it, something very few games can boast nowadays




There is automatic scrolling, double click the characters picture to activate it.

The interface isnt perfect (switching between the 2 char's inventories is annoying) but I dont think they are poorly placed...besides you can move alot of the windows around and place them where you want.

Controlling 2 characters is a bit awkward at first, I'm getting used to it though, just use pause alot or else be ready to reload.
Posted By: Killbomb

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 09:50 PM

Speaking of inventories, I hate the way the inventory is set up now. The DD system was MUCH better. There's way too much clicking now to get your armor, weapons, etc. isolated.
Posted By: Nakami

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 11:28 PM

Well, first of all I really enjoyed Divine Divinity and have been looking forward to Beyond Divinity for quite some time, however now that I played BD for bout 8 hours I'm sad to say that I'm a bit dissapointed. Main reason is the DK...I can't wait to get rid of him (I'm afraid I'm stuck with him for a while though..prolly all game). Cause of the DK the battles are a bit less fun imo, especially at higher difficulty I find myself pausing the game a lot more to survive the battles cause one of my chars is getting hurt bad or is just acting stupid. This takes the pace out of the game. It's not that I hate rpg's where you have to control several characters, it can be very good fun, but I liked the setup in DD

Second thing is the story at the beginning, Divine Div got me sucked in from the beginning, in BD however I still hardly have a clue what i'm doing...I only just entered chapter 2 so it might get better, but the first chapter bored me a bit storywise

Third thing is the insane amount of chests, barrels etc, almost all containing a bit loot, DD had loads of them, but BD even beats it here and you better check em all...

Neverthetheless I wanna continue playing and experiment more with the endless list of skills, hoping the story will catch me a bit more. Besides the things above, BD plays a lot like DD and is an okay game, but so far I liked DD better.

It's prolly just cause after DD a lot of new rpg's arrived and I got spoiled a bit, where these new rpg's were new, BD is the same as DD with some changes which aren't always an improvement.
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 11:37 PM

welcome to the forums!


yes, I agree.

and so I must ask larian to make in Divine Divinity 2 or the secret project (though not a rpg? ) to be another game with just 1 person. I loved how I was ALWAYS selected and stuff.
Posted By: Centurion

Re: Please post impressions. - 30/04/04 11:47 PM

My impressions of Beyond Divinity thus far, Brilliant game one of the best RPG's Ive bought in years, (probably since Arcanum!) Its not too easy, but not too hard- its challenging (bit like FarCry) , excellent music, graphics arnt too bad (better than arcanums)and I like the character progression and combat is fun

~Cent~
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 01/05/04 12:42 AM

"theres no automatic scrolling in the game..."

There is a hotkey to re-center the screen focus, in addition to the other suggestions. You can also eliminate the portrait and icons of the interface (have to go into options to set a hotkey), and use hotkeys for potions or selecting skills.
Posted By: runcc

Re: Please post impressions. - 01/05/04 01:26 AM

I'm not too far yet, only a little way into the first battlefields, but I am enjoying it so far. The gameplay is very similar to DD which I enjoy. The graphics are similar, which are not great, but good enough. However, the few spells that I have been able to cast have looked very cool. I've been playing on tactical, and the fighting is a little too hard for my taste, but I don't want to start over. My biggest complaint is the inventory screen. I liked the way it was done in DD much better. I was also glad to see that the great sense of humor has been continued to BD. Voices and music are good, too. Overall it has been a good game so far, and looks to be another great game from the folks at Larian.
Posted By: Nakami

Re: Please post impressions. - 02/05/04 11:14 PM

Adding a few more impressions

Atm I'm about to enter act 3 and I find myself having loads of valuable stuff but there are no merchants with cash, do they ever restock?
I'm in desperate need for more potions, cause even tho I did spend some skill points into alchemy I can't seem to make anymore potions (would have been nice to list in the manual what ingredients the potions need), I almost wish you could put skillpoints into drinking potions lol.

I still can't get used to the inventory, it's a complete mess, this really needs a change in a future patch, like an auto-arrange or something and please add a description to the charms, It sucks to just save and reload to find out what charm effects which stat (or using a 2nd pc to check what does what)

Atm I love and hate the game at the same time, more hate then love atm tho. The instant kill traps on chests which make me reload and do the same things all over again, the lack of info in the manual and ingame and the several bugs (logbook doesnt close quests after they are done, game doesn't continue after auto cutscene's, audio behaving weird and lots more) make me leave BD for a while till its patched. I really don't understand why Larian changed so much after DD, cause as it is now it would have made more sense that BD was their first and DD the better, improved second rpg.

Posted By: BenWright

Re: Please post impressions. - 02/05/04 11:51 PM

So far I'm in the imp village in act 2.

I'd say the game lacks polish, but then so did . There are very few isometric RPGs about, at least compared to FPS games, so I'll take what I can, but if there were more I might not have brought
I think the big problem is trying to cover too many genres. You just can't do Ultima and Diablo in the same game. For all the hype the tactical nature and clever story is non-existent. Now Baldurs Gate 2, there was tactical combat, especially the Throne of Bhaal add-on. Planescape Torment, that had the story. Fallout, that had the smart quests/npc interaction. Sadly doesn't have any of them. It's not terrible, but so far it rates average, and only get's a thumbs up since there is so little to compare it to today.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 12:00 AM

Quote:

Speaking of inventories, I hate the way the inventory is set up now. The DD system was MUCH better. There's way too much clicking now to get your armor, weapons, etc. isolated.




Beyond Divinity is definitely a big step backwards from Divinity. The skill/spell system is utter crap. The whole first Act and maybe second is totally linear. In Divinity, it was pretty much wide open from the start. I didn't play Divinity when it was released, but like a year or two later. BD has WAY more bugs than I ever met in Divinity. Overall I'm super disappointed at this time. Pretty much decided to quit playing until a patch or two. How can you leave so many bugs in a game when you didn't even have to write an engine?
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 12:11 AM

IIRC the non-linearity was criticized by some gamers in Div...
Skill/spell system in BD is more complicated - correct - but allows a wider variety - and the ability of a gamer to choose/decide instead of powering himself up with all sorts of skills.

As you played Div pretty late => a lot of bugs were already erased/fixed.
BD is very complex - so not all bugs are naturally fixed in 3-4 patches - specially not the random generated BF.

Did you know how many hotfixes patches Div had until it became what it is now? Guess not - because the EV was 1.029 from the start.

Do you know how many bugs were fixed from the German version 1.00 until now? Guess, not really, hm? Your English version is already 1.2 without the last patch..

So, please, don't compare apples and pears. I understand, you like Div - me, too - but I don't think the skill/spell system in BD is crap => just involves a bit more thinking/deciding - and giving it a chance to get accustomed to. I don't think it's lame to unlearn a skill if I don't like it. I'm glad, I can instead.
Kiya

Addendum: I'd appreciate it, if you wouldn't call me a fan girl. I simply have a different approach => taking each game as unique instead of comparing. The Larians decided to take another approach instead of using the rinse-and-repeat one many companies prefer. I think, I would've been disappointed if they had simply made another typical Div. I like to try out new stuff.
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 12:15 AM

Quote:

I find myself having loads of valuable stuff but there are no merchants with cash, do they ever restock?




No; unlike Divinity, I don't think this game was designed to have unlimited gold. You can jump to the battlefields and trade your excess loot for charms or jewelry, to retain most of the value of your loot for future trading.
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 01:04 AM

yeah! 16 more mins till installed, patch 13 percent done! already read manual many a time. congrats on Baby Lar, good job Raze, Barnabus, Kiya, Mythros (lucky sods) and good job Larian! (if only the new DK didnt make me want to throw up)
Posted By: Veridian37

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 01:16 AM

I can only give initial impressions since I'm just finishing Act 1, but like other posters, I have a love/hate reaction toward BD so far.


The combat seems a lot clumsier and much tougher, controlling two characters in what is essentially an action RPG ruins the flow of combat...attack, pause, potion, unpause, hit, hit, cast spell, pause, potion, unpause, attack, attack, RUN, death knight dies, GAME OVER press escape. I hope Larian doesn't incorporate this into DD2, but I wouldn't mind if they had NPC's that joined you, only computer controlled to some extent, and if they die it shouldn't be game over.

I'm a little underwhelmed by the skill system also, it's not so much complicated as convoluted. Each skill tree unfolds like a road map and there seem to be miniscule distinctions between a lot of them. I just want a fire spell, not have to decide if it's "focussed" or "instant". And if my fighter chooses "One handed, one eyed, two fisted, no shielded, slashing with a double edged dagger" skill and then finds a better weapon later that doesn't fall into this category, sure I can unlearn the skill, but that costs money, and soon we have no money, and neither do the merchants anymore. We're all poor!

Battlefields are an interesting concept, and the game is designed so you pretty much have to go there if you want to progress in the main game. But this travelling to an alternate universe kind of takes away from the immersion factor. Am I going on some kind of killing/questing vacation? How about I just set up house in the battlefield and just forget about getting out of Samuel's dungeon? I kind of like that idea..

Attributes are weird, Strength is clearly not as important as Agility, even for a burly fighter. Intelligence gives the mage more mana, but never enough to make their low level spells very effective. I'm not sure where to put level up points anymore.

I truly appreciate Larian's attempts to make BD a little different, but there is a point you cross into the "fixing what isn't broken" area.

I have broken this post up into paragraphs to facilitate quoting and flaming, you're welcome!


Posted By: Barta

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 01:32 AM

Quote:

I have broken this post up into paragraphs to facilitate quoting and flaming, you're welcome!



I am the first to quote you !

Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 01:36 AM

Ah, I hope I don't flame - but why shouldn't other attributes be more important than strength?
I've done martial arts myself - trained against/with men not females => they were stronger than I ever would be. I was good at dodging and finding out the weak points - so, I think agility is very important, even for a melee fighter.

In BD I took up an archer the very first time (agility, survival, speed)- I really loved the sneak and attack mode. Later on I concentrated only on one spell => Shaman Magic and finished off both boss enemies in single mode (my DK was too weak in the 1st case) simply by using this spell, nothing else. I had a variety of arrows to take out enemies. DKs were my favourite food. I wish, they had put in more in the Citadel.

And I loved the fun I had with pickpocket... why buy stuff? I stole it - same for money.

About the BF => they were no fun for me. I'm a quest gamer, not a fighter.
I've played the game several times now (German version)- still have not tried out all skills.

About the DK => in easy areas I let him run free in aggressive mode - in areas I knew he'd be in trouble, I parked him in a safe spot and sneaked on alone. But I required a few tries/reloads etc. to get a knack out of my approach. Did I die? Yep... Did I encounter bugs? Yes. I hope, they will be fixed. Are there areas I hate? Yep. this is not new to me - had it in Div also.

I guess, it will take me a few games to find out more combos suitable for my gaming style - and maybe I can change from easy to tactical one day BD is training for me.
Kiya


Posted By: Killbomb

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 02:14 AM

Quote:

I truly appreciate Larian's attempts to make BD a little different, but there is a point you cross into the "fixing what isn't broken" area.




I totally agree with you on this one. The inventory screen should have DEFINITELY been left alone for one.

I also hate that they introduced stealth into the game. When you first meet the DKs in the Citadel, you basically have no chance of killing them and have to sneak by. Even when I was sneaking, a DK would usually pop up out of nowhere and I would have to run away. The funny thing was that if I stayed in sneak mode while escaping, the DK would give up pursuit once I got a little out of his sight range. Not very committed to his job I guess. I certainly hope there are no more sections where stealth is required. If I wanted to sneak around, I'd play Splinter Cell.

Even with the annoyances I've mentioned and the handful of bugs I've encountered, is still a fun and addictive game IMO. Still, it could have been better if some stuff from DD had just been left alone.

Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 02:49 AM

I like it, so far. I agree with those of you who think that the interface isn't quite so hot, though. I remember thinking that DD had the perfect interface, but now with the adjustments for controlling two characters, it is clumsy. Adjusting between weapons and skills sucks, for instance.

Overall, the difficulty level is good (I'm playing on tactical). The only monsters I haven't been able to whack were the ghosts on in the starting area just before the arena pit. Some other combats have been tough, but ultimately beatable using the right tactics (including the DKs mentioned in the last post). A timely visit to the battlegrounds where I went from level 5 to 8 and reconfigured some skills really helped.

About skills: The battlegrounds shouldn't be so expensive, maybe 500 instead of 5000 or so. The other teachers that are in the main quest are much cheaper and more worth it. I wish teachers and skills were more common. I can't really play as a mage yet (I'm in the level with all of the guards and DK patrols) because I haven't found anyone with other than the "focussed elemental missile" (or whatever) skill, so I'm playing him as an archer who just happens to cast a few spells. Overall skill and equipment variety (especially in the battlegrounds) should be much greater than it is.

What exactly is the difference between L1 and L2 BG? They look the same to me.

The music and voices are awesome. The music is suitably epic without getting in the way of game flow, and the voices (even the DK's) are perfect. Some of the interactions with the guards had me rolling on the floor (including the one in my sig).

I remember feeling lost and like "What the hell am I doing here?" the first couple of times I played it, but now I am settling in to the flow of the game, and I think I know what is expected of me. I think that feeling is part of any new RPG experience, BTW. Maybe some people are a little disgruntled because they didn't expect to feel that way going from DD to BD.
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 03:00 AM

Quote:

The combat seems a lot clumsier and much tougher, controlling two characters in what is essentially an action RPG ruins the flow of combat




If you prefer action RPGs, are you playing on the easy or action difficulty settings? Except for tougher fights or to target moving enemies easier, I don't pause that frequently.


Quote:

When you first meet the DKs in the Citadel, you basically have no chance of killing them and have to sneak by




I didn't have any problem killing them with my warrior / archer combination in tactical, and did not attack in sneak mode. I brought my warrior up first, so he would be the target of the DK patrol, with my archer following behind to start attacking immediately when one appeared.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 03:07 AM

Quote:

I didn't have any problem killing them with my warrior / archer combination in tactical, and did not attack in sneak mode. I brought my warrior up first, so he would be the target of the DK patrol, with my archer following behind to start attacking immediately when one appeared.




I used the same tactics, only with the DK as warrior and my char as a mage/archer. Worked great, as long as I got a little lucky and remembered to pause and use healing and mana potions in a timely fashion.
Posted By: Veridian37

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 03:42 AM

Quote:

Quote:

The combat seems a lot clumsier and much tougher, controlling two characters in what is essentially an action RPG ruins the flow of combat




If you prefer action RPGs, are you playing on the easy or action difficulty settings? Except for tougher fights or to target moving enemies easier, I don't pause that frequently.







I'm playing on Action difficulty, I don't necessarily prefer Action RPG's, but if there are multiple characters to control, I think some variation of turn-based should be an option. Black Isle/Bioware games utilized pause, but the combat in those games was of course much more strategic. BD uses the same fast-paced combat style as Divinity, but now the overall power of your character is split with the Death Knight, so it seems a little clumsy.

Generally, if the enemy is at or below my level, I don't pause that often either, but sooner than later the game throws higher level enemies, and my most recent trip to the battlefield to get stronger was a bust since the BF dungeon 2 is almost completely devoid of enemies for some reason. We shout "Calling all monsters!" and "Here, skellie skellie!" to no avail. It's dark and lonely.
Posted By: BenWright

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:49 AM

I think a simple thing that would improve gameplay would be if one party member could 'die' with out the game ending. Call it getting KOed. He's out of the fight until the enemies in the area are dead at which point he gets up with 1% health. It would allow some DD style gameplay again.
Posted By: Warhammer

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:45 AM

I am almost done in act I, tactical mode (just some clearing in BF dungeon 3 to go)

1/ It helps to focus on a few skills. I discarded repair and identify, i let NPCs handle that, and trade back the gold I paid them with junk I carry around. Used the skill points on combat related stuff instead, it helped a lot.

2/ Dolls are excellent for "disarming" traps

3/ No major problems in battles, I rarely need to pause with potions hotkeyed.

Posted By: DiAnna

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 03:40 PM

For all the reasons posted in this thread, and a few that aren't, I too am very disappointed in BD. Design decisions on withholding crucial information from the player, horribly cluttered inventory system, horribly confusing and limiting skill-tree system, insta-death traps even in the first levels, too little gold, too little decent loot (particularly usable weapons/armor), too many test-reload scenarios apparently built in for reasons only the designers can fathom. The exquisite DD fun factor is missing, overwhelmed by a thousand tiny frustrations that have built into one huge gameplay annoyance.

And I'm not even talking about the bugs. I'm talking about only the deliberate design decisions that make gameplay, in my opinion, irritating and unfun. For this die-hard DD fangirl, 'tis heartbreaking indeed.

Posted By: sammy22

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 03:55 PM

I intended to buy beyond divinity, as I enjoyed divine divinity, and felt that with improvments in the right areas this could be a contender for best crpg 2004.

Out of curiosity I came on these boards to see what people thought of it, and also to see how the new features have been implemented.

It would seem that the majority of people are very disapointed with the game overall, although many obviously will persist with it having paid 30.

In particular it seems the inventory has been changed, the brilliant traits screen dispensed with, a death knight added which at times can be an inconvenience, and the battles involve lots of pausing.

On the plus side it would seem that combat has improved, in the sense that the hack and slash element has been improved somewhat, and replaced with more competative and less frequent battling.

Just wondered if the experience gained for solving quests and killing monsters is similar to that in divine divinity. In that game I found it unequal, as you could spend 2 hours completing a well thought out puzzle/quest and receive next to know experience.

Alternatively you can wander around killing things, and earn 100000 x's the amount of experinece for a difficult quest just by killing easy monsters.

Hopfully the fact that combat is now more difficult will have addressed this, but I feel it was essential that FAR MORE experience was awarded for completing quests.

Can anyone tell me if this is the case in beyond divinity?
Posted By: Greyclouds

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:25 PM

I was seriously considering buying until my friend allowed me to try it out for a day.

I made it just past the first act, deleted the game from my hard drive, and gave the cd's back to my friend.

I will not bash the game, though I will say that it is not for me.

I enjoy tactical combat (read: "combat that emphasizes tactics and grants a multitude of options to prevail") and love to be intellectually challenged by a game. Having said that, some of the design decisions of truely left alot to be desired from the combat. The game itself is highly level based (not unique among action RPG's) insomuch as you can devestate hoards of level 2 skeletons at level 5; however, try to fight a level 6 or 7 monster at level 5, and you will see the gameover screen VERY quickly.

Unfortunately, the skill system does not facillitate a multitude of options and ultimately pigeon-holes the player into certain skill paths. Sure, there are many options, however, you will realistically invest in a specific combat skill and pray that your enemies will lack the resistances to said skill.

The different levels of gameplay: tactical, action and hardcore are all misnomers. Tactical combat is VERY challenging and has a very very small learning curve; this game mode comes with the assumption that you will hit the magic "quickload" key multiple times as an enemy's luck can kill you instantly. Action combat is hard enough to facillitate the regular use of the pause key... making it much more like an "easier" tactical mode. Hardcore... well... if you are immensely masochistic, you would enjoy this mode.

I have played the original and found the inventory system to be average/good; 's inventory system is clearly a regression from 's. This is all due to the previous posters' comments, so I will not reitterate them.

In closing, I feel that has potential, however, two things will have to occur for me to grant the game a 7/10 or an 8/10:

1) free up more skill paths in the beginning of the game, and devise a way to allow melee characters to transfer some of their damage from certain melee skills onto other melee weapons. Being pidgeon-holed into "crushing" weapons after getting an awesome axe is very frusterating; perhaps if the damage points from the "crushing" skill could transfer over to the axe albeit in a reduced ammount? It would produce a range of weapons that the melee character can use and would ammount to a greater choice. Do I go with my invested weapon or a different type of weapon with lesser damage (granted by my already invested skill points)?

2. balance the game for its difficulty. I enjoy a challenge; however, in its current state is more frusterating and monotonous than fun.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:35 PM

Quote:

IIRC the non-linearity was criticized by some gamers in Div...
Skill/spell system in BD is more complicated - correct - but allows a wider variety - and the ability of a gamer to choose/decide instead of powering himself up with all sorts of skills.

As you played Div pretty late => a lot of bugs were already erased/fixed.
BD is very complex - so not all bugs are naturally fixed in 3-4 patches - specially not the random generated BF.

Did you know how many hotfixes patches Div had until it became what it is now? Guess not - because the EV was 1.029 from the start.

Do you know how many bugs were fixed from the German version 1.00 until now? Guess, not really, hm? Your English version is already 1.2 without the last patch..

So, please, don't compare apples and pears. I understand, you like Div - me, too - but I don't think the skill/spell system in BD is crap => just involves a bit more thinking/deciding - and giving it a chance to get accustomed to. I don't think it's lame to unlearn a skill if I don't like it. I'm glad, I can instead.
Kiya

Addendum: I'd appreciate it, if you wouldn't call me a fan girl. I simply have a different approach => taking each game as unique instead of comparing. The Larians decided to take another approach instead of using the rinse-and-repeat one many companies prefer. I think, I would've been disappointed if they had simply made another typical Div. I like to try out new stuff.




Actually, the skill system and the battlefield system are basically nonsensical fixes for design flaws. Unlearn is completely silly. Battlefield is just to take care of balance issues, and really makes no sense in the scope of the game. At level 30 in BD you get what...35 skill pts? I don't know the exact # but you could easily dump all of those skill pts into ONE SINGLE SKILL OR SPELL. This is a major design flaw. There are a ton of options yes, but you have to choose a very small number of them for each skill or spell to be useful after a short time. Unlearn is simply a quick fix due to the design flaw of the skill system. It makes absolutely no sense. Even with all this I'll still like the game overall of course. I just think they made some serious mistakes with the skill system, and were trying to cover it with the unlearn ability.

There is no thinking involved in the skill system. You are pretty much forced to start out with one-handed combat and choose slashing/or something. If you ever want to do anything different, you have to do the ridiculous and unlearn it so you can go another route. This is silly. You can compare enjoyment factor of games. If you can't compare games against each other, what can you do? What it boils down to is, Divine Divinity is a good bit better product than Beyond. This scares me greatly for Divinity 2.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:36 PM

Quote:

I can only give initial impressions since I'm just finishing Act 1, but like other posters, I have a love/hate reaction toward BD so far.


The combat seems a lot clumsier and much tougher, controlling two characters in what is essentially an action RPG ruins the flow of combat...attack, pause, potion, unpause, hit, hit, cast spell, pause, potion, unpause, attack, attack, RUN, death knight dies, GAME OVER press escape. I hope Larian doesn't incorporate this into DD2, but I wouldn't mind if they had NPC's that joined you, only computer controlled to some extent, and if they die it shouldn't be game over.

I'm a little underwhelmed by the skill system also, it's not so much complicated as convoluted. Each skill tree unfolds like a road map and there seem to be miniscule distinctions between a lot of them. I just want a fire spell, not have to decide if it's "focussed" or "instant". And if my fighter chooses "One handed, one eyed, two fisted, no shielded, slashing with a double edged dagger" skill and then finds a better weapon later that doesn't fall into this category, sure I can unlearn the skill, but that costs money, and soon we have no money, and neither do the merchants anymore. We're all poor!

Battlefields are an interesting concept, and the game is designed so you pretty much have to go there if you want to progress in the main game. But this travelling to an alternate universe kind of takes away from the immersion factor. Am I going on some kind of killing/questing vacation? How about I just set up house in the battlefield and just forget about getting out of Samuel's dungeon? I kind of like that idea..

Attributes are weird, Strength is clearly not as important as Agility, even for a burly fighter. Intelligence gives the mage more mana, but never enough to make their low level spells very effective. I'm not sure where to put level up points anymore.

I truly appreciate Larian's attempts to make BD a little different, but there is a point you cross into the "fixing what isn't broken" area.

I have broken this post up into paragraphs to facilitate quoting and flaming, you're welcome!






You have hit the nail right on the head.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:40 PM

Quote:

For all the reasons posted in this thread, and a few that aren't, I too am very disappointed in BD. Design decisions on withholding crucial information from the player, horribly cluttered inventory system, horribly confusing and limiting skill-tree system, insta-death traps even in the first levels, too little gold, too little decent loot (particularly usable weapons/armor), too many test-reload scenarios apparently built in for reasons only the designers can fathom. The exquisite DD fun factor is missing, overwhelmed by a thousand tiny frustrations that have built into one huge gameplay annoyance.

And I'm not even talking about the bugs. I'm talking about only the deliberate design decisions that make gameplay, in my opinion, irritating and unfun. For this die-hard DD fangirl, 'tis heartbreaking indeed.





Another good post.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:41 PM

Quote:

I'm a little underwhelmed by the skill system also, it's not so much complicated as convoluted. Each skill tree unfolds like a road map and there seem to be miniscule distinctions between a lot of them. I just want a fire spell, not have to decide if it's "focussed" or "instant". And if my fighter chooses "One handed, one eyed, two fisted, no shielded, slashing with a double edged dagger" skill and then finds a better weapon later that doesn't fall into this category, sure I can unlearn the skill, but that costs money, and soon we have no money, and neither do the merchants anymore. We're all poor!




Totally true, it seems to me like basically they made all the skills too specific. This means you're almost guaranteed to have to change your skills later on in the game. Thus, it seems like the "unlearn" ability was hacked in. It really makes no sense and there's no storyline justification for it. It's just like "well, let me forget how to do this stuff, and free up some brain space....done. oh my, why does my purse suddenly feel lighter too?"

Quote:

Battlefields are an interesting concept, and the game is designed so you pretty much have to go there if you want to progress in the main game. But this travelling to an alternate universe kind of takes away from the immersion factor. Am I going on some kind of killing/questing vacation? How about I just set up house in the battlefield and just forget about getting out of Samuel's dungeon? I kind of like that idea..




Totally true again, they are an interesting concept, but they feel like they were just totally hacked in. The storyline justification again is lacking. Basically, you find a key, and you "use" it (touch it? I don't know), and then suddenly you have the ability to teleport to some alternate world on demand, where merchants conveniently live, and there are monsters hanging around waiting for you to come by and kill them? Er, ok.

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:42 PM

Quote:

I was seriously considering buying until my friend allowed me to try it out for a day.

I made it just past the first act, deleted the game from my hard drive, and gave the cd's back to my friend.

I will not bash the game, though I will say that it is not for me.

I enjoy tactical combat (read: "combat that emphasizes tactics and grants a multitude of options to prevail") and love to be intellectually challenged by a game. Having said that, some of the design decisions of truely left alot to be desired from the combat. The game itself is highly level based (not unique among action RPG's) insomuch as you can devestate hoards of level 2 skeletons at level 5; however, try to fight a level 6 or 7 monster at level 5, and you will see the gameover screen VERY quickly.

Unfortunately, the skill system does not facillitate a multitude of options and ultimately pigeon-holes the player into certain skill paths. Sure, there are many options, however, you will realistically invest in a specific combat skill and pray that your enemies will lack the resistances to said skill.

The different levels of gameplay: tactical, action and hardcore are all misnomers. Tactical combat is VERY challenging and has a very very small learning curve; this game mode comes with the assumption that you will hit the magic "quickload" key multiple times as an enemy's luck can kill you instantly. Action combat is hard enough to facillitate the regular use of the pause key... making it much more like an "easier" tactical mode. Hardcore... well... if you are immensely masochistic, you would enjoy this mode.

I have played the original and found the inventory system to be average/good; 's inventory system is clearly a regression from 's. This is all due to the previous posters' comments, so I will not reitterate them.

In closing, I feel that has potential, however, two things will have to occur for me to grant the game a 7/10 or an 8/10:

1) free up more skill paths in the beginning of the game, and devise a way to allow melee characters to transfer some of their damage from certain melee skills onto other melee weapons. Being pidgeon-holed into "crushing" weapons after getting an awesome axe is very frusterating; perhaps if the damage points from the "crushing" skill could transfer over to the axe albeit in a reduced ammount? It would produce a range of weapons that the melee character can use and would ammount to a greater choice. Do I go with my invested weapon or a different type of weapon with lesser damage (granted by my already invested skill points)?

2. balance the game for its difficulty. I enjoy a challenge; however, in its current state is more frusterating and monotonous than fun.




Another great post. Please don't ruin Divinity 2 like this Larian.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:42 PM

Quote:

What exactly is the difference between L1 and L2 BG? They look the same to me.




If you really mean level 1 and level 2 (and not Act I/Act II), the difference is that once you acquire the level 2 key, the second dungeon is unlocked. Prior to that, it's a locked door (or trapdoor/portal/whatever).

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 07:46 PM

Quote:

Quote:

I'm a little underwhelmed by the skill system also, it's not so much complicated as convoluted. Each skill tree unfolds like a road map and there seem to be miniscule distinctions between a lot of them. I just want a fire spell, not have to decide if it's "focussed" or "instant". And if my fighter chooses "One handed, one eyed, two fisted, no shielded, slashing with a double edged dagger" skill and then finds a better weapon later that doesn't fall into this category, sure I can unlearn the skill, but that costs money, and soon we have no money, and neither do the merchants anymore. We're all poor!




Totally true, it seems to me like basically they made all the skills too specific. This means you're almost guaranteed to have to change your skills later on in the game. Thus, it seems like the "unlearn" ability was hacked in. It really makes no sense and there's no storyline justification for it. It's just like "well, let me forget how to do this stuff, and free up some brain space....done. oh my, why does my purse suddenly feel lighter too?"

Quote:

Battlefields are an interesting concept, and the game is designed so you pretty much have to go there if you want to progress in the main game. But this travelling to an alternate universe kind of takes away from the immersion factor. Am I going on some kind of killing/questing vacation? How about I just set up house in the battlefield and just forget about getting out of Samuel's dungeon? I kind of like that idea..




Totally true again, they are an interesting concept, but they feel like they were just totally hacked in. The storyline justification again is lacking. Basically, you find a key, and you "use" it (touch it? I don't know), and then suddenly you have the ability to teleport to some alternate world on demand, where merchants conveniently live, and there are monsters hanging around waiting for you to come by and kill them? Er, ok.





Good points again. Everyone I know that's played this feels basically the same way. Only 1 that has visited this forum. In fact, most have decided to quit even playing BD until some of the more noticible bugs are fixed. I'm sure all of us will end up finishing the game and enjoying it overall, but that doesn't change the fact that this is a huge step backwards from Divinity 1 and they really need to think about this for Divinity 2.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:00 PM

Quote:

There is no thinking involved in the skill system. You are pretty much forced to start out with one-handed combat and choose slashing/or something. If you ever want to do anything different, you have to do the ridiculous and unlearn it so you can go another route.




Depends on how you define "thinking". I didn't go for 1-hand, left my DK without combat skills until I got the 2-hand option. There is a German phrase/pun I can't translate very well, because of language differences but I'll try => decisions are a form of modesty.(entscheiden ist sich bescheiden)
I took a close look at all skills before I started the game, studied them and then made my decisions - to concentrate on a few. And then re-think and unlearn, if I made an error in my decision - and take the consequence by paying for it. It's not the game, it's me, the gamer. The game offers me several choices - I choose.
Char had 25 in bow, 6 in pickpocket, 1 in swap, 5 in hammer
DK had 25 in 2-hand slash, 4 in trap detection, 4 in disarming, 4 in identify.

I tell you what I think is silly, Dorito => being judgemental. You don't like the skill system => granted. But this does not mean this system is ridiculous - or lame to unlearn - you simply don't like it - that's all.
Kiya

Quote:

Hopfully the fact that combat is now more difficult will have addressed this, but I feel it was essential that FAR MORE experience was awarded for completing quests.





IMO, yes - the quest XP rewards are more balanced. An example => they range from 1944 to 13824 in the first act. From 15776 - 48256 in Act 2. By killing enemies in game and quest XP, I didn't need the BF much (played on easy, cause I concentrate more on quests than on combat)
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:10 PM

Quote:

Quote:

There is no thinking involved in the skill system. You are pretty much forced to start out with one-handed combat and choose slashing/or something. If you ever want to do anything different, you have to do the ridiculous and unlearn it so you can go another route.




Depends on how you define "thinking". I didn't go for 1-hand, left my DK without combat skills until I got the 2-hand option. There is a German phrase/pun I can't translate very well, because of language differences but I'll try => decisions are a form of modesty.(entscheiden ist sich bescheiden)
I took a close look at all skills before I started the game, studied them and then made my decisions - to concentrate on a few. And then re-think and unlearn, if I made an error in my decision - and take the consequence by paying for it. It's not the game, it's me, the gamer. The game offers me several choices - I choose.

I tell you what I think is silly, Dorito => being judgemental. You don't like the skill system => granted. But this does not mean this system is ridiculous - or lame to unlearn - you simply don't like it - that's all.
Kiya




Shrug, you are the most biased of all. Larian could have put out a steaming pile of dog doodoo and you would defend it to the death. I'm more interested in people that actually form valid opinions based on the game at hand. The ones that only care about "this is fun" or "this is a real pain". Having to be directed into so few spells and/or skills is just not fun. It is a major game design flaw. If you had input into the changes from DD to BD, I can see now why it fails to match the fun factor that was DD. There are some things about BD that do happen to be better than DD. Combat I think is improved in BD overall.

If you are playing tactical, I find it hard to believe you left your DeathKnight without any combat skills and made it through half the creatures in the beginning of Act 1 without huge amounts of luck with your rolls. Of course, I've only spent points in my DeathKnight and am saving up my skill points for more interesting spells than "elemental fire at skill pt 5" or whatever you want to call the lame spells in the elemental section.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:12 PM

Also, why can one not be judgemental? Call it like you see it. Maybe you're wrong, maybe you're right. Everyone has their right to judge.

I don't like the system because it is lame. It seems the vast majority of people that have played this game agree, minus the fanboys/girls of course. Hell many people would've called me a fanboy of DD.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:12 PM

Quote:

Depends on how you define "thinking". I didn't go for 1-hand, left my DK without combat skills until I got the 2-hand option. There is a German phrase/pun I can't translate very well, because of language differences but I'll try => decisions are a form of modesty.(entscheiden ist sich bescheiden)
I took a close look at all skills before I started the game, studied them and then made my decisions - to concentrate on a few. And then re-think and unlearn, if I made an error in my decision - and take the consequence by paying for it. It's not the game, it's me, the gamer. The game offers me several choices - I choose.




Yeah, I did the same thing, I saved up all my skill points until I was able to buy the "with shield" combat style, then I spent them all on with shield/slashing. However, it looks like that was probably silly. The cost to unlearn is pretty low and the early playing would have went much smoother for me if I'd just went one-handed slashing then unlearned it once I got the shield style.

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:16 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Depends on how you define "thinking". I didn't go for 1-hand, left my DK without combat skills until I got the 2-hand option. There is a German phrase/pun I can't translate very well, because of language differences but I'll try => decisions are a form of modesty.(entscheiden ist sich bescheiden)
I took a close look at all skills before I started the game, studied them and then made my decisions - to concentrate on a few. And then re-think and unlearn, if I made an error in my decision - and take the consequence by paying for it. It's not the game, it's me, the gamer. The game offers me several choices - I choose.




Yeah, I did the same thing, I saved up all my skill points until I was able to buy the "with shield" combat style, then I spent them all on with shield/slashing. However, it looks like that was probably silly. The cost to unlearn is pretty low and the early playing would have went much smoother for me if I'd just went one-handed slashing then unlearned it once I got the shield style.





Just hope you don't find a weapon later in the game that's so badass you want to switch to, but alas it's either 2 handed or not slashing. See ya gold.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:20 PM

Yeah I've already found some cool one-handed "shadow" type weapons and considered unlearning slashing and putting it all into shadow, but that's dangerous, or at least looks like it from where I stand now, because the gold supply in the game is so limited. I have tons of value (mostly in arrows and charms, which I am using as sort of a pseudo-money), but if I run out of gold it seems I'm stuck as far as training or unlearning.

Another thing I don't get is this whole "shadow" and "bone" damage type, I have a shadow axe. Why does it take a totally different skill to use a shadow axe, than it would a normal axe? Just because it does shadow damage instead of slashing damage? Isn't an axe still used the same way? Like, with a normal axe, you swing it. With a shadow axe, do you do something else, like maybe hold it above your head, twirling it, while evil shadows emerge to smite your foes?



Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:22 PM

Quote:

Yeah I've already found some cool one-handed "shadow" type weapons and considered unlearning slashing and putting it all into shadow, but that's dangerous, or at least looks like it from where I stand now, because the gold supply in the game is so limited. I have tons of value (mostly in arrows and charms, which I am using as sort of a pseudo-money), but if I run out of gold it seems I'm stuck as far as training or unlearning.

Another thing I don't get is this whole "shadow" and "bone" damage type, I have a shadow axe. Why does it take a totally different skill to use a shadow axe, than it would a normal axe? Just because it does shadow damage instead of slashing damage? Isn't an axe still used the same way? Like, with a normal axe, you swing it. With a shadow axe, do you do something else, like maybe hold it above your head, twirling it, while evil shadows emerge to smite your foes?







Laugh, another great point.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:41 PM

Quote:

If you really mean level 1 and level 2 (and not Act I/Act II), the difference is that once you acquire the level 2 key, the second dungeon is unlocked. Prior to that, it's a locked door (or trapdoor/portal/whatever).




That is what I meant. I've read some of the posts and it has become clearer what the difference between the battlegrounds between LEVELS and between ACTS are. I hadn't explored far enough before I asked the question to realize that there are 3 pretty much separate outdoor/dungeon areas in each battleground act, and that they are progressively unlocked when you find the keys.
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:45 PM

@DoritoOfDeath: Well if you hate the game that much why don't you return it to the store. Oww yes you won the game in the imprunner contest a bit difficult to return it then (talking about looking a gift horse in the mouth). I can understand you don't like the game but do you have to post everytime some one agrees with your point comments like "good point", you hit the nail on the head... I realy brings down the atmosfere here I think theire are only 5 to 10 members here that find the game bad but they sound like 1000 men. And for the love of god. Try to get you response in one post (reading flat) seeing 5 post right after each other with your name not netiquete

Personally I like the skill system it challenges me to think ahead. As for the combat. I used to play action rpg like diablo (that is not a rpg) and i must say I like this combat alot more. It forces you to pause and makes you think about the next step. (So I hit the monster with 10 fire elemental missles and did nothing maybe I should use something diffirent). As for the money issue just like I did in DD I will find a barrel to store all my stuff.

As for your argument that the unlearn skill option is a hacked to make the game ballence out. unlearn skill is level based so how highr you go the more gold is needed. You'll go broke if you unlearn more then 2 points

That said theire are some things I like more in then in . The main problem is that they are 2 diffirent games. One is party less what makes it more fastpaced (running through the green landscapes killing everything I see) And the other one is with a party witch makes for a slower gameplay but more difficult battles. Personally I have no problems with either genre.

I feel that much of the complains come from the people who think the fine line between ultima BG and diablo that was present in has been shifted more to the ultima and BG side en less toward the diablo side (wich is ok in my book)

And one final note of annoyance:
insta death traps suck but thats what ctrl+L is for

so lets get to my impressions so far

skill system

This has been a 50/50 here on this forum but I like it.

Combat:

fun but some times frustrating but once you beat a frustrating battle you feel so much better. I believe a reviewer once wrote anoyingly addivtive
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:49 PM

Actually I enjoyed DD so much that not only did I win a copy of BD (which I haven't gotten yet) but I went and bought the game the day it hit stores as well. Figured I'll give the free copy to a friend or something.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:52 PM

Again, since you've only played the demo, you really haven't gotten far enough to know how bad the new skill system is. Don't get me wrong, overall I still like the game and will play it (although I'm quitting until there's a patch to address some of the buggage). You can think ahead all you want about what skill you want to use, but until you know every single piece of equipment in the game, you're merely guessing as to what may be available once you get to X level.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:53 PM

I also stated I liked the combat, not disliked it.
Posted By: Barnabus

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:58 PM

@DoritoOfDeath

Hey, you doesn't need to quote and comment each post. You can believe me, everyone is able to make up his/her own view of the game. We know you don't like the game. It's ok for you, but it doesn't give you the right to score other users views. So, please, stop your spamming.
Posted By: gustavef

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 08:59 PM

I am making my way though Act II right now, and I would be playing if I were not at work . I did not play Divine Divinity, so I don't have that to base say if this is "better" or not.

So far, I enjoy the game. There is enough of story and humor to keep me going. Except for the Inventory, the interface is functional. I was able to figure out how to work with/around its quirks with the Demo.

The skill systems is novel, and at times a little too detailed with the ammount of skill points per character. Though the I like the unlearn since it allows me to experiment with only mild risk.

One thing I like is that I can sort of choose what mood I am in at the time. If I want to feel good and kill lots of things quickly, I pop up to the Battle fields. If I feel like being "social" I do some side quests, or I make progress on the main story arch. When I get tired with one, I go to something else. It allows me to pace the game for myself.

Right now, I don't feel like I am suffering any shortage of resources, either gold or potions.

Right now, I would give the game a solid B+. It is worth the money and entertaining, but not a must play for everyone.

-gustavef
Posted By: Barta

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:01 PM

Quote:

@DoritoOfDeath: Well if you hate the game that much why don't you return it to the store. Oww yes you won the game in the imprunner contest a bit difficult to return it then.



Hi DoritoOfDeath

You can't return the game because you won it playing Imprunner.
But if you find this game so boring i would be pleased to buy your copy.
Send me your name and address in a PM and i will send to you an internationnal order of payment by the post office.
With this money you could buy some other great game as Sacred for instance.


Quote:

Larian could have put out a steaming pile of dog doodoo and you would defend it to the death.



I agree completely : Larian could have put out a steaming pile of dog doodoo and I would defend it to the death.
Kiya you're not alone !

Barta
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:04 PM

I didn't say I hate the game. I merely think it's a good bit less fun than Divinity was, and this can be traced to some serious design flaws in the basics of the game. There are some things that are better. For sure I'll play it and finish it. However I will have 2 copies when my free one arrives, so I could theoretically send it to someone who is unable to purchase the game for one reason or another.
Posted By: Yannos

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:07 PM

Dorito, I understand that you like being proven right but why reply to every post that "it's right"?

Anyway, you instantly try to destroy a reply from someone who has to say something positive (fanboys) while encouraging negative ones. What does that make you ? A hateboy? If you don't like the game, stop playing it and move on with your life instead of complaining on some forum just to criticise and to bring down the general atmosphere.

Me, I can't really comment on the game because I haven't got it yet. However I knew enough from playing the demo (I liked it) so if you did that then you #1 shouldn't have entered the competition and #2 even BUY it.

Now you'll probably attempt to destroy my reply as well and label me as a "fanboy", but honestely ; I don't care.

Posted By: Barta

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:09 PM

Quote:

However I will have 2 copies when my free one arrives, so I could theoretically send it to someone who is unable to purchase the game for one reason or another.



I am interested. In which country do you live ?
Posted By: Womble

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:11 PM

Trolling it up..... Lalala

What's the next thread you want to ruin Dorrito boy?
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:16 PM

sammy22;
It would seem that the majority of people are very disapointed with the game overall

Most of the people who like the game are busy playing it, rather than posting that fact. The people who are most disappointed are the most vocal.



Greyclouds;
The game itself is highly level based... however, try to fight a level 6 or 7 monster at level 5, and you will see the gameover screen VERY quickly

On about level 8 I did not have a great deal of trouble with the level 16 ghost you can summon on the first level of the citadel. It took a couple tries to refine my strategy so I wasn't using too many potions, though. The first time it showed up I wasn't even in combat mode, and the ghost appeared practically on top of one character, since I was ignoring my DK's warnings.

however, you will realistically invest in a specific combat skill and pray that your enemies will lack the resistances to said skill.

That wouldn't be the most effective strategy. For weapons you can select a couple different classes; for spells you can learn a variety and use curses to drop resistances so the elemental spells you know will work better.

as an enemy's luck can kill you instantly

I've had tough fights, but no instant kills in tactical.



DoritoOfDeath;
Unlearn is completely silly.

You apparently want to learn all of the skills, with no possibility of making a poor choice for any given situation and believe the first skill you learn should be effective throughout the entire game. Email me the data.000 file from a save and I'll give you a few thousand free skill points.

Battlefield is just to take care of balance issues

I thought it was there for all the people who wanted monster respawning in Divinity, and all the action-RPG Diablo fans. If you don't like dungeon crawls, don't do them (I didn't).



Fireblade;
Thus, it seems like the "unlearn" ability was hacked in. It really makes no sense and there's no storyline justification for it.

With many more options than you can take advantage of (hey, just like in real life) it is hardly surprising that there is a mechanism for redistributing skill points. Having this cost gold is simply a method to limit redistribution to a reasonable amount. There is no storyline justification for getting skill points in the first place.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:16 PM

Quote:

Dorito, I understand that you like being proven right but why reply to every post that "it's right"?

Anyway, you instantly try to destroy a reply from someone who has to say something positive (fanboys) while encouraging negative ones. What does that make you ? A hateboy? If you don't like the game, stop playing it and move on with your life instead of complaining on some forum just to criticise and to bring down the general atmosphere.

Me, I can't really comment on the game because I haven't got it yet. However I knew enough from playing the demo (I liked it) so if you did that then you #1 shouldn't have entered the competition and #2 even BUY it.

Now you'll probably attempt to destroy my reply as well and label me as a "fanboy", but honestely ; I don't care.





I will destroy it only if they are wrong. How many times have I said I still like the game overall. I just have issues with some bad decisions by the design team. The bugs I can deal with or just wait for a patch. Basic design flaws they can really do nothing about. So the reason I will be so adamant about it is so they hopefully don't make the same poor decisions for Divinity 2.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:23 PM

Dorito, being an adult - and I mean an adult - excludes me from being a fangirl. I don't need to be judgemental, too. I know if I dislike/like something => this is not the same as labelling something being crap/ridiculous etc. It's simply my opinion and I don't need a judgement to strengthen this (insecure egos require this )

I have been quite a while on this and on the old forum - so I took/read a lot of doodoo from gamers criticizing Div. And it amuses me to see praise now in points that were damned in former times: non-linearity vs linearity.

I was completely aware, the skill system would not find total approvement - and I can tell you my opinion => it's not simplistic - no fast food - involves time. As I am a fan of old RPG, I like this system - see? I played Sacred - was bored after 20 hrs, just me. Yes, combat becomes challenging there - but the quests? The interaction? Nope... not my cup of tea. Maybe yours? Then drink it - we can both be content then, right?
Kiya


Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:25 PM

Quote:

How many times have I said I still like the game overall.




So why doesn't that reflect in your posts. I believe I haven't seen posts where you praise the game . If I was a new member douting if I would buy the game this thread isn't good advertisement . I value your opionions. idd the inventory is messed (also was in ) but thats what happens when you use the same engine. I am shure they will fix it since it has a completely new engine. Same with otherthings. Why don't you write all your anoyances in a txt file till you end the game and then post them in the suggestion section as ONE post. You can also do the same with the positive points
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:29 PM

Quote:


DoritoOfDeath;
Battlefield is just to take care of balance issues

I thought it was there for all the people who wanted monster respawning in Divinity, and all the action-RPG Diablo fans. If you don't like dungeon crawls, don't do them (I didn't).




I haven't seen any respawning in the Battlefields yet...

Quote:


Fireblade;
Thus, it seems like the "unlearn" ability was hacked in. It really makes no sense and there's no storyline justification for it.

With many more options than you can take advantage of (hey, just like in real life) it is hardly surprising that there is a mechanism for redistributing skill points. Having this cost gold is simply a method to limit redistribution to a reasonable amount. There is no storyline justification for getting skill points in the first place.




Doesn't need to be a storyline justification for the learning of skills. Learning skills as you gain experience is a natural thing that logically makes sense to people. This even happens in real life. You do things, you learn things. However, "unlearning" things then retroactively learning different things is not something that can be justified at all in a "common sense" manner.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:30 PM

Quote:

Dorito, being an adult - and I mean an adult - excludes me from being a fangirl. I don't need to be judgemental, too. I know if I dislike/like something => this is not the same as labelling something being crap/ridiculous etc. It's simply my opinion and I don't need a judgement to strengthen this (insecure egos require this )

I have been quite a while on this and on the old forum - so I took/read a lot of doodoo from gamers criticizing Div. And it amuses me to see praise now in points that were damned in former times: non-linearity vs linearity.

I was completely aware, the skill system would not find total approvement - and I can tell you my opinion => it's not simplistic - no fast food - involves time. As I am a fan of old RPG, I like this system - see? I played Sacred - was bored after 20 hrs, just me. Yes, combat becomes challenging there - but the quests? The interaction? Nope... not my cup of tea. Maybe yours? Then drink it - we can both be content then, right?
Kiya






I've never played Sacred so I do not know if I'll like it. I also am a fan of Old RPG's, which is why I really liked Divinity. I started out with the old text based ones, moved on to ones like Ultima (Ultima 5 being my favorite)..The Legend of BlackSilver, Wasteland, Legacy of the Ancients...you name it I've probably played it. In fact, I just started playing Zangband off and on. Talk about complex. (www.zangband.org) I loved the interaction and quests in Divinity. I also love it in BD so far. I like more challenging combat, although they probably should have implemented a true turn based system instead when you think about it. What I don't love about BD comes down to 2 things right now. The skill system and battlefields.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:31 PM

Quote:


Doesn't need to be a storyline justification for the learning of skills. Learning skills as you gain experience is a natural thing that logically makes sense to people. This even happens in real life. You do things, you learn things. However, "unlearning" things then retroactively learning different things is not something that can be justified at all in a "common sense" manner.




Nor does it happen in real life. I'd be very surprised if after learning how to use a sword well, you switched the battleaxe and all of the sudden forgot how to wield a sword effectively in real life.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:35 PM

The thing is, the learning/unlearning makes it seem more like a game and less like a true living world that I am adventuring in. It's as if my character is just a computer with a certain number of card slots, I pull out the "one handed slashing damage" memory card and stick in a new "with shield shadow damage" memory card to take its place, and continue on my way.

Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:35 PM

About the battlefields. I remember some one at Larian saying

"I good player can finish the game without entering the battlefields"

So basicly if you don't like em don't go.

I tought the price of unlearning skills is very high. It's not like you can make you mage a warrior in the middle of the game
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:37 PM

Quote:

Quote:

How many times have I said I still like the game overall.




So why doesn't that reflect in your posts. I believe I haven't seen posts where you praise the game . If I was a new member douting if I would buy the game this thread isn't good advertisement . I value your opionions. idd the inventory is messed (also was in ) but thats what happens when you use the same engine. I am shure they will fix it since it has a completely new engine. Same with otherthings. Why don't you write all your anoyances in a txt file till you end the game and then post them in the suggestion section as ONE post. You can also do the same with the positive points




The main reason is I don't want them to think everyone loves the new skill system and battlefields. They seriously need to sit down and look at them both for Divinity 2 if either were meant to be put into that game. While neither would prevent me from buying, playing and enjoying Divinity 2, I know many of us would be a whole lot happier without that new skill system. I still really don't see anyone praising the new system. A couple of people say it makes you think more. IMO it only makes you guess more.

In reality, the main thing that scares me about Divinity 2 is the move to 3D graphics. It's very rare that it's done well in an RPG. Spellforce is the only game I've seen have perfect camera angles and controls for a 3D RPG. Yes, I know it's part RTS too.
Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:38 PM

I think the battlefields are cool, they should have just tied it into the storyline better instead of making it feel like something that was quickly hacked in. Touch a key and you can magically teleport there anytime, etc. Has to be a better way. Also, all of the bugs in the battlefields contribute to the feeling that it was a quick hack.

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:39 PM

Quote:

About the battlefields. I remember some one at Larian saying

"I good player can finish the game without entering the battlefields"

So basicly if you don't like em don't go.

I tought the price of unlearning skills is very high. It's not like you can make you mage a warrior in the middle of the game




I haven't tried, but if someone could do this on Tactical mode, I would be pretty impressed. heh
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:40 PM

Your on.
Posted By: Chroniss

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:41 PM

Quote:


I will destroy it only if they are wrong. How many times have I said I still like the game overall. I just have issues with some bad decisions by the design team. The bugs I can deal with or just wait for a patch. Basic design flaws they can really do nothing about. So the reason I will be so adamant about it is so they hopefully don't make the same poor decisions for Divinity 2.




Its not about being right or wrong...your looking at it the wrong way.

I love the skill system, the only complaint I had was that purchasing new skills was kind of redundant. Now that I'm half way through Act III I have almost every skill I could ever want, so thats no longer an issue. The awesome thing is, my character is a mage right now, and I'm going for archer, so now I'm diverting points from mage skills into archery to make him a mage/archer.

How many games allow you the ability to change, or manipulate your class to fit your playstyle like I'm doing? I'm level 22, and my class will continue to evolve well into act 4 and probably all the way till the end. I think its a very unique system, that granted has its faults, mostly because its never been attempted before, but at the same time its a very fun system to use, and encourages experimentation. While it may not be perfect, its very innovative and I appluad the dev's for the courage to step outside the box and attempt something different.

There are bugs, and the game lacks polish in some areas (BF's mostly), but its challenging, unique, and above all else, fun. There certainly are things about this game I dont approve of, and it is by no means perfect, but its far from bad. I agree with you that the developement team needs to make some core design changes to make the game more user friendly, but I think in general there is alot more to praise here then criticize.


Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:43 PM

One more thing about the battlefields is that from what I heard before the game came out it sounded like some totally randomly generated world with cool loot and monsters but what it really seems to be (now keep in mind, I've only been to the Act I battlefields so far, so maybe it changes later) is just a static area, but with a lot lower quality level than the rest of the game. The only "randomness" maybe is the actual dungeon walls (not sure) and which merchant gives out which quest. The above-ground world is static, each player will find the same thing at the bottom of the dungeons (just maybe in a different dungeon), and the monsters don't respawn. So, essentially, instead of fulfilling the promise of some randomly generated limitless world, the battlefields are--more or less--another static part of the game, just with a lot lower quality bar than the rest of the game. They seem like just an excuse to crank out low quality maps with nothing interesting on them. Calling them the "battlefields" means you can tell players they don't have to do them, but in reality, any serious player is going to want all the exp/equipment they can get, so they are forced to go through them.

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:43 PM

Quote:

Quote:


I will destroy it only if they are wrong. How many times have I said I still like the game overall. I just have issues with some bad decisions by the design team. The bugs I can deal with or just wait for a patch. Basic design flaws they can really do nothing about. So the reason I will be so adamant about it is so they hopefully don't make the same poor decisions for Divinity 2.




Its not about being right or wrong...your looking at it the wrong way.

I love the skill system, the only complaint I had was that purchasing new skills was kind of redundant. Now that I'm half way through Act III I have almost every skill I could ever want, so thats no longer an issue. The awesome thing is, my character is a mage right now, and I'm going for archer, so now I'm diverting points from mage skills into archery to make him a mage/archer.

How many games allow you the ability to change, or manipulate your class to fit your playstyle like I'm doing? I'm level 22, and my class will continue to evolve well into act 4 and probably all the way till the end. I think its a very unique system, that granted has its faults, mostly because its never been attempted before, but at the same time its a very fun system to use, and encourages experimentation. While it may not be perfect, its very innovative and I appluad the dev's for the courage to step outside the box and attempt something different.

There are bugs, and the game lacks polish in some areas (BF's mostly), but its challenging, unique, and above all else, fun. There certainly are things about this game I dont approve of, and it is by no means perfect, but its far from bad. I agree with you that the developement team needs to make some core design changes to make the game more user friendly, but I think in general there is alot more to praise here then criticize.






For the most part this is true. I'm really only criticizing the skill system and battlefields. Maybe I am leaving the good things unsaid too much.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:46 PM

I agree to BF => I don't like them either, but I guess, some will. I have my fun in game.

And in RL => if I learn something and don't train it, I forget, lose my ability, my skill whatsoever (of course, over time).

I'll take NWN as an example now => I was a paladin, but wanted to learn thieving skills (lockpick). I had to take class restriction. Well, I didn't like this - but as the game devs had their system, I accepted it, stopped my pallie career and leveled up in thief.

In BD I can do as I wish - for a price, but I accept this, too.
Kiya
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:47 PM

Well I must say the atmoshere is better here now. Reading all those post was really depressing and was thinking people where hating the game. Glad to see I was wrong. Personally I have some reservations myself and I will post them in the suggestions sections when I finish the game. I will do the same with the good points of the game so the team will have a fair and ballanced view (the al franken fair and ballanced not the fox fair and ballanced) of my opinion.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:51 PM

Quote:

Well I must say the atmoshere is better here now. Reading all those post was really depressing and was thinking people where hating the game. Glad to see I was wrong. Personally I have some reservations myself and I will post them in the suggestions sections when I finish the game. I will do the same with the good points of the game so the team will have a fair and ballanced view (the al franken fair and ballanced not the fox fair and ballanced) of my opinion.




Oh no, not Al Franken. Please say it isn't so. I'd much rather have Bill O'Reilly Fair and Balanced

Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 09:55 PM

*steps in the no spin zone*

Well I live in belgium so I don't know that much american culture. I just tought his comedy and book were hilarious. As for the politics I don't care It's not my country
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:09 PM

Edit: I'll revise and repost my thoughts tomorrow. I do not wish to tread on toes.

P.S: I think you'll find nobody hates Larian or their games... we're just judgemental, and after spending money on a game (Which to some of us is a lot of money), we feel we are entitled to said opinion.
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:16 PM

As I write these first impressions of BD, I am reminded of my post re: DD when I finished playing the game. They appear to be about the same. It took me a while to get used to DD's interface and all of its bells and whistles (adding items together, etc.). I didn't expect BD to be a carbon copy of DD, nor its interface, so it's going to take me a while to get used to some of the additions and modifications. So far, I like the changes - including the skill point choices. As it was in DD, those points are precious (as pointed out by the developer in the game manual) and how you use them will largely determine how well your character relates to his/her environment. There is a bit of a challenge in there, a challenge that I enjoy.

Most impressive: that the Larians took the time to tweak the voice overs at the last minute. A task of monumental undertaking. The NPCs are more 'sophisticated' in tone than in the demo. So, from this change alone, it was well worth the wait.

But more importantly, (and even more impressive by my standards) Larian set out to cast a wide net in terms of attracting players. From a marketing point of view, that's risky because RPGs and Tactical/Strategy based games differ on several levels -- including players. I applaud Larian for having the mettle and vision to tackle such an ambitious project. I think this particular team bent over backwards to please as many players as they could. And, as we are all discovering (especially as we read the posts in this particular forum), not everyone will or can be pleased. There will always be disgruntled consumers who find flaws and faults in a game's design. It's the old "Monday morning" quarter-back mentality. That's when every mistake becomes so crystal clear. Well, mistakes, faults and flaws are a facet of everyday life. It's up to us to decide how much time we want to devote dwelling on them. I'd rather spend time playing a game or designing one.

Btw, video and PC games are an $8 billion dollar a year industry and that figure is growing by leaps and bounds. On the average it takes between 2-5 years for a company to produce one game (from conception to marketing). I'm looking forward to my journey through

Well, I'm sure to have more impressions as time goes on. These are simply the first.

Faralas


Posted By: BenWright

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:28 PM

Quote:

Edit: Deleted the post. After reading replies in this thread to other 'disappointed customers', i'd rather not get flamed for having an opinion. Thanks.




Repost it please. I just spent 5 minutes reading and I thought you had many valid points. Yeah the Larian apologists will have a crack at you, but you get that on every game MB. I suspect that when someone has invested months and years of their time at a companies web site, it gets hard to admit a games shortfallings for fear of realising that it was a waste of time!
After lurking at more game MBs than I care to remember I've started to learn when a game has problems, it's the bickering and flaming and arguments about not being allowed opinions that give it away. Temple of Elemental Evil and Master of Orion 3 are two recent examples. I think I can add BD to that list. It's not quite as bad as them but a game stoping bug has hit me and I'm pretty annoyed.


Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:33 PM

Thanks for the support, i'm just a bit 'nervous' if that's the right word. Like you, i'm a serial lurker (prefer to read than write) and will post only if I feel compelled to. I hate arguing over the net however, especially when I actually loved Divine Divinity. I just have some 'gripes' which make Beyond Divnity more frustrating than fun. (although it is still a good game, imo, just not as good as DD was).
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:38 PM

Quote:

Edit: I'll revise and repost my thoughts tomorrow. I do not wish to tread on toes.

P.S: I think you'll find nobody hates Larian or their games... we're just judgemental, and after spending money on a game (Which to some of us is a lot of money), we feel we are entitled to said opinion.




Oh, pooh! LOL I was in the middle of responding to a comment you made in your original post only to find you've edited it! Drat that.

Oh well - you should keep your post up there. Feedback is feedback. And every opinion counts. I do agree with you on one point and I would not recommend BD as an 'intro' game into the world of RPGs. Divine Divinity is a good game to start out with. Then again, I'm quite fond of that game, so consider me biased!

Well, I hope you reconsider posting your thoughts.


Faralas

Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:38 PM

I'm glad your post was so long, MonkehmaN - it was very interesting, thank you . And yes, I agree => I don't think it's a game for all. And yes, it involves a lot of patience.

And it's REALLY a pity, you deleted it. - how can I answer to some details now? (and enjoy the humour again?)
Kiya

I think your opinion is profound - I recall moments, where I was as frustrated as you (DON'T mention these earth elementals and their damn earthquake = reminds me of my Aleroth catacombs hate))- I recall how satisfied I was, when I finally killed one. From all acts I had my strongest probs with Act 3 (as you had: infiltrating and helping at the same time => moral probs)
I still don't quite agree about the strength/endurance part though, but maybe because I don't play warriors - and pushing up my agility/survival helped me when I was caught up in melee and couldn't run off quickly enough.
I've always seen my "paladin" or the disciple more as an untrained new apprentice/trainee, thrown into a hard world and trying to survive. Not as a hero in classical sense.
Looking forward to your post revision,
Kiya
Posted By: kay26

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:40 PM

Yes its very true, compared to the original Divine Divinty, this game is not as good (but then again few games are) but if i stop comparing it to the original Divine Divinity...the game is excellent.
I agree with all the negative points mentioned in these forums and i could come up with quite a few of my own but i think i'll better mention the good points because everybody seems to ignore them:
First thing that comes to mind is the music, its made by the same composer and its absolutely great, id say better than in the original.
The game is a lot of fun to play (if you quit comparing it constantly to DD that is), offers more than most of the games of its kind, i like the dialogues a lot, story is intriguing at points, its challenging, varied, great graphics that are of a very high artistic level.
My point is despite this game didnt impress me as much as the original did, i dont regret buying it for a second, its a great game in its own right and it seems the game keeps getting better as i play it.
Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:42 PM

No, my second name is NOT "Franken".

Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 10:55 PM

The only thing wrong with ToEE was that it was way too short. I literally finished the game in one weekend. At least I won't have that problem with BD. I've been playing as much as I can since Thursday evening and I'm not even all the way through Act I.

I just wish the interface was more polished. 3D graphics don't have to be on par with the best and latest shooters, but there are certain things I expect in s game. . .like being able to select characters by pointing at them (or at least their selection circles), and grouping them by drawing a rectangle around them, vs having to always move the cursor up to the corner of the screen (or use the KB). Being able to zoom is good, but I miss the overall rotating go anywhere controls of NWN. It's hard to put into words. . .the game just feels RAW, like a company's first attempt, even moreso than DD, IMHO. I guess me (and others) expected more refinement at this point.
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:00 PM

I haven't seen any respawning in the Battlefields yet...

No, but the battlefields are an alternative for those that wanted respawning. They are a separate optional area to kill monsters. After completing the game, act 5 is all battlefields (the screenshot I saw looks like a building with multiple BF entrances), so I think each time you enter one, the whole thing is respawned.


I'd be very surprised if after learning how to use a sword well, you switched the battleaxe and all of the sudden forgot how to wield a sword effectively in real life.

In real life you can not forget skills, but then you also can not talk to an instructor briefly, click a few buttons and dramatically improve you sword wielding abilities with no work on your part. The method to unlearn skills could have been worked into the game in a more immerse way, though (which would probably have its own downsides).

Realistically, there should be some overlap in similar skills, but this would be a big problem trying to balance the game. The specialities are extra benefits for a particular weapon class; your basic stats provide the general abilities. Where that distinction should be drawn is a matter of opinion.


Touch a key and you can magically teleport there anytime, etc. Has to be a better way. Also, all of the bugs in the battlefields contribute to the feeling that it was a quick hack.

So you don't have a problem with all of the other magical teleports in the game, just for the battlefields? It could have been worked into the story better, but I think it was designed to be a distinct area.

About the bugs: at one point the Larians mentioned the random quest generator might not make it into the game. The battlefields were planned from the start, AFAIK, but I think it took a little more development time than they were anticipating.
Posted By: Yannos

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:02 PM

Als antwoord op:




I will destroy it only if they are wrong. How many times have I said I still like the game overall. I just have issues with some bad decisions by the design team. The bugs I can deal with or just wait for a patch. Basic design flaws they can really do nothing about. So the reason I will be so adamant about it is so they hopefully don't make the same poor decisions for Divinity 2.





I see, well you don't really attack the game as being bad in a whole but your criticism does come over quite negative. However I do agree that bad points about the game should be pointed out like you do , just not that flamotory. Constructive criticism still works the best.

Anyway, now that I understand this situation better I think we can bury the hatchet.


Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:04 PM

Quote:

...I recall how satisfied I was, when I finally killed one. From all acts I had my strongest probs with Act 3 (as you had: infiltrating and helping at the same time => moral probs)




That's how I feel about any game I play, Kiya. Getting through a tough battle scene or killing a high level monster *is* the fun, the heart and the soul of RPGs for me. I don't celebrate my daily victories with as much fanfare as when I beat the crap out of an evil dungeon lord. The adrenalin rush is ..., ooooooh - did I say this out loud?

Faralas


Posted By: Fireblade

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:18 PM

Quote:

So you don't have a problem with all of the other magical teleports in the game, just for the battlefields? It could have been worked into the story better, but I think it was designed to be a distinct area.




What other teleports are you referring to? I think the pyramids are cool, and don't forget they are an object you have to carry around, and activate in order to teleport.

The battlefields teleport doesn't require actually carrying around the keys, you just touch a key and then after that you have the innate ability to teleport there... Bit cheesier.

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:20 PM

Quote:

The only thing wrong with ToEE was that it was way too short. I literally finished the game in one weekend. At least I won't have that problem with BD. I've been playing as much as I can since Thursday evening and I'm not even all the way through Act I.

I just wish the interface was more polished. 3D graphics don't have to be on par with the best and latest shooters, but there are certain things I expect in s game. . .like being able to select characters by pointing at them (or at least their selection circles), and grouping them by drawing a rectangle around them, vs having to always move the cursor up to the corner of the screen (or use the KB). Being able to zoom is good, but I miss the overall rotating go anywhere controls of NWN. It's hard to put into words. . .the game just feels RAW, like a company's first attempt, even moreso than DD, IMHO. I guess me (and others) expected more refinement at this point.




Ohnos, a fellow Las Vegas lurker.
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 03/05/04 11:22 PM

The imp historian and the necromancer seem to be able to teleport without apparent physical mechanism to do so. Actually the (minor, IMO) technical distinction didn't even occur to me.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 12:11 AM

Quote:

Ohnos, a fellow Las Vegas lurker.




You are partially correct. . .although I am no longer a Vegas LURKER, I am a Vegas POSTER. This is only my 10th post though, so I have a ways to go to catch up with you. It may not take that long though. . .I spend my evenings playing BD, but I can browse and post these forums during the day when I at what I laughingly call "my job."
Posted By: Killbomb

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 03:14 AM

I'd really like to see input from Larian about some of the dubious changes/removals they made from DD. Especially the now mysterious nature of the charms and the jumbling of the inventory system.
Posted By: Warhammer

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 07:48 AM

PROS:

The skill system
I prefer skill based RPG systems to class based ones. So this one was a treat. In theory, characters customizable to the extreme and the possibilities are limitless. I wish there was some cross skill similarities though. Meaning if I had 4 points in 1-H Slashing accuracy, I automatically get 2 points in 1-H slashing + shiled, and 1 point in other 1-H weapons, or some such. Likewise there could be similarities between, disarming traps and picking locks, extract and combine,... and so forth.
Why would a grandmaster with a mace become 1 complete newbie when he gets a Shield in the other hand? Sure the technique is different but there are similarities.

Summoning Dolls
I have not used them much but the concept is great. A mule, a kamikaze trap disarmer, cannon fodder all in one. Besides keeping them at low level allows to unlearn/learn very cheaply, having a versatile repair guy / identifier / alchemist, this way. Not to mention potentially a full fledged party member if one had skillpoints to spare.

2-Character party
Again great idea. In most other solo-RPGs one is either alone, or having sub-human followers with no personality.

The music
I tend to turn them off, or lower their volume in most RPGs, this time I really enjoyed them.

The humor & script
Not much to say here. I like what Rhianna did with the dialogue and the Novelette, tying the divine one, beyond div, Raanaar, Riftrunning neatly.

CONS:

The skill system
This is not a copy paste error. The best thing (IMO) in beyond div, is also the thing I find most frustrating. In theory one has infinite possibilities to tweak one's characters. In practice, when one looks at the build that players who finished the game have, one sees that they spend 25 out of 35 points on their main 'weapon' leaving 10 points to customize and then out of those 10 many go to must have skills (detect traps,...). Raze is going to fall on me like a ton of bricks for this one but I wish there was 2 skillpoints per level, maybe even more every 5 levels. Balance issues could be solved by disallowing spending more points on one skill then one's level (ie to have 25 points skillpoints invested in your favourite weapon you need to be level 25).

Bugs
Impossible as it is to deliver a bugfree piece of software, I find it inexcusable that things fixed long ago in the German version did not make it to the English version (Act 1 Dungeon 2, quests not disappearing after finishing them), and things listed as fixed in the patch readme actually aren't (Archey contest)

That's all. Please remember that I am just stating my opinion, not Truths and Facts.
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 09:18 AM

Thanks a lot Kiya and others for the mature replies. It pretty much killed all my fears of a flame war and restored my faith in this community.

***May Contain Spoilers***

Also wish to point out: The Earth Elementals just feel unbalanced to me (my opinion). It would have been more fun and worthwhile in my view, if there was a quest such as the well poisoning in Divine Divinity or something. It just feels I am forced to use every potion I have (Which there are not enough of, imo) just to defeat one area of monsters. it makes me headbutt the wall and repeatedly mumble (ugh... bloo...d...y... eaaa...rth... ele...men...tals.... i... want... my.... te..ddy... bea...r) and I am sure my family will deliver me to a mental institution shortly.

====Start of Impressions====

I'll just list them instead of the huge novella I posted last time.

The Negatives

1) The Death Knight : Whilst later on in the story, (Act 2 onward) I grew to find humour in some of his speach... he just on a whole does not strike me as an evil character. He seems too happy to be there, too "I luv my hero companion, I really do... gis' a kiss". He obeys my everyword... never once has he decided he won't help someone because he wants to kill them, he just mumbles it. It would of been nice if some quests had an unexpected end or something, where the Death Knight lost his cool and slaughtered the quest givers. He just doesn't seem evil, he actually reminds me more of a spouse... happy to be there, but occassionaly moans or we see differently so argue. Maybe he likes being tied to the hero... who knows? Maybe the chains were really a diamond ring... and this... this 'adventure' is really the honeymoon

2) The 'EXP' Quests : They seem random at best... some in act 3 really do not make sense as I stated and my morals have been pushed to the limits. I feel really sorry for my new allies (The Ranaar) because I am a two-faced, double crossing, money-grabbing and two-timing Paladin with attitude. Not only am I working for the Ranaar, but also for the Black Ring... everyone infact and it just seems extremely 'random'. When I roleplay, I like to feel I am that character... I like to be able to use my morals to guide my decisions in game... I feel I have to go against everything I feel, just to progress the story. That is not roleplaying, it is 'action-gaming'. Should I just rename my character "Lara Croft" and go do somersaults and headstands in empty crypts? Divine Divinity had a nice touch... if you didn't want to work for a certain 'species', you could bring peace to them instead. I'm a wee bit confused here... and I feel really two faced.

3) Battefields I remember someone stating a GOOD gamer wont need to go here, they can complete the game without doing so... well then, I am proud to be a terrible gamer, because without going here in Act 1 and 2, i'd of been dead many many times. Death Knights, Earth Elementals... talking spiders... death death death. I agree with the others... Battlefields feel like an afterthought. Like going to work... some may not wish to be there, but if they didn't go, life would suck incredibly hard. I actually enjoy clearing the dungeons in battlefields however... the enemies there are destroyed by my two-handed fury, refreshing seeing as everything else in act 3 is using me as a human version of 'Pong'. The merchants gold is incredibly low... I have 200 items stuck in every hole possible (on me and my death knight), I feel like a hedgehog, except they are swords not spikes.

4) Inventory Screens Well, I agree these are worse than Divine Divinity. But then, the whole interface is in my view. I loved the health bars surrounded by snakes/dragons... but that's pure opinion. It just felt more 'Divinity' and less 'main stream'.

5) Skills I miss Divine Divinity Skills. They gave us freedom, now instead of a jack-of-all-trades (specialist in nothing), we are a specialist-in-one-thing (useless at everything else). In my view, warrior's especially, should specialise in a weapon type, not a damage type. If a warrior (irl) used a [nocando] sword, he would specialise in every form of damage it could possibly do. Hitting with the hilt (crushing), Slicing the body (slashing) or stabbing the enemy to finish him off (piercing). Now I feel like an action figure... I can only move my arm in an "Up and down" motion, because my mechanics wont allow my arm to move "Side to side" or "in and out". Similarly, skills just feel a wee-bit silly... a warrior in full plate could not sneak, end of story. The "CLANG CLANG CLANG... CLANG CLANG CLANG... CLANG CLANG" would king of give them away don't you think? How about lock-picking in a pair of gauntlets? How about specialising in melee abilities, whilst having no strength? Reminds me of the term "swatting flies". At least in Divine Divinity the influx of skill points meant you could add it and forget it for your own sanity... in Beyond Divinity, the low number of skill points makes you a specialist in said area... and I cannot see a paladin/knight being specialist in slashing and lockpicking. It just seems wrong.

6) The Story As I stated in my last post... I have problems with the story. It starts off telling me I was a paladin sent to kill Samuel (with other Paladins) for the Divine One (I believe)... surely this states they have faith in me, which means I am experienced, which means I can kill an enemy without running? A Paladin is trained beyond belief... the whole Paladin image is one of "Divine Warrior", not "Divine Rubbish". Paladin's can repel the undead... they can literally TELL a ghost/skeleton to die again, because they felt like it... yet in BD, this (ex?) Paladin is being raped by anything dead, and also has decided to get the pickpocket skill, breaking every rule the Paladin Code has, just for some... *wink wink* easy money. Could the developers have not just proclaimed "And the Divine One sent a band of adventurers forth to destroy the Necromancer"? I am a Paladin (according to Larian)... a Paladin who has theif skills (Robbing from the rich to feed thyself is an act of evil for starters and the Paladin would be stripped of rank immediately)... I am a Paladin who is fed up of being one so they decide to focus on other skills instead? Who knows, i'm confused. "I shall smite the, unholy entity, but first, I shall steal thy wallet". I love roleplaying as Paladin's... purely because it is one of the hardest classes to RP as. People claim it is easy, but then the entire concept of a Paladin is lost to them. A Paladin would not participate in a drinking contest, a paladin would not work for an entity deemed evil just to progress the story... a paladin would NOT do quests for a necromancer (especially one he was sent to kill in the first place)... he/she would attempt to smite said necro even if it meant they died in the process (im sorry but the whole "I said your name so you cant kill me" thing is wrong... the Paladin would still TRY). Paladin = Enemy of evil, friend to the innocent, champion of the people. Paladin does NOT = wallet stealing, shadow sneaking, tale telling, 'chaotic neutral' warrior. A Paladin would also give running lectures/commentaries to his unwanted ally (The death knight) on the errors of his ways... after all, a Death Knight is usually seen as a form of fallen paladin/warrior. Situation does not grant the destruction of teachings/morals/beliefs. A Paladin would rather die than defy their lord.

7) Voices I really love Rhinna Pratchett's humour, I just have issues with the actors cast to voice them. The cockney guy who is the voice of most Black Ring guards / humans in Act 2 and 3, is just totally bored. "buy my stuff... I need to sell it" or "you can't come in here... it isn't allowed.". Wheres the feeling? Wheres the frustration? Wheres the humourous undertones that defies their actual speech (saying they feel different to what they say?). It feels like they are reading lines straight from a script and not even putting feelings into it. Anyone can do that, I got an A in school (in Drama) for doing that... but these guys are paid to do more. I just feel the whole cast was bored, none seem to want to be doing it. And EVERYONE has the same voice! Oh my Lord, some woman was a naughty lady, she had so many twins, the whole world is populated with them! Even the imps have the same voice as the humans, granted, they've added a squeak. Then there's the death knight... I love his stupidness, the voice is perfect for a dumb evil warrior (imo)... but again, he seems so bored! "Arhhh... you're awake... woohooo... back to bed... bleh".

8) Neutral Creatures Couldn't they have kept that warning window for the entire game? I cannot count the times i've clicked a rat or other neutral animal by mistake... and then been royally raped by their brothers and sisters. In chapter 1 a little window pops up "Are you sure you want to click on, rat (neutral) and have all other rats as enemies" or something similar. Why was this taken out of Chapter 2 and onward? It really stopped 'accidental' clicks, whether they be just where your mouse is (whilst your attention is elsewhere) or under the 'fog-of-war' whilst you click inside it. On a side note... how does every cat/rat/frog/dog in the world know I killed one of it's species? What is this? Chinese Whispers? "He killed Margaret!!! Pass it on!!!!"

9) The Music What was the best feature of the original game, seems boring and uneventful in BD. It's too moody... I feel depressed sitting there for longer than 20 minutes, because it's all so glum. I the original game, I could teleport to Dark Forest when I felt sad, and proceed to jump up and down like a loon to the catchy and fun beat. Now all I get is the feeling something, somewhere, has died and all the musicians look like this .

10) Items There are too many, but of what there is... the majority is utter rubbish. In act 3, I am still finding normal leather armor... i've only seen one full-plate, and that was from a Black Ring Merchant. Why don't the Battlefield merchants sell things on an Act basis? Act 3, their stock gets better perhaps? For the later mosters, defence is really important, and so is resistances... yet all I can find at most, is a "Mole's Chain Mail" or a "Rabbit's Leather Armour". I may as well buy "Red Rags" and stand in front of an Elemental shouting "yooohooo, i'm over here... come earthquake me, I can't resist it!!!" (literally).

11) The Hero Underpowered. It's the only way I can see him/her. An imp Shaman can royally kick thy heroes behind, yet the hero wishes to save the world and kill anything hostile within. Some hope. They can't even defeat a Death Knight without running (which in Divine Divinity were food for my sword, I loved killing them). "Hey, Mr. Hero... my daughters trapped in an Orc hole... do us a favour and rescue her... but make sure you know Sneak and Save the Game a lot, because frankly... you're a wimp!!!". There's difficulty and then there is insanity... which leads me to my final negative;

12) The Difficulty If you wish to attract main stream gamers, you should make 'Very Easy' actually mean 'Very Easy' and not 'An-Easier-Version-of-Difficult'. The average gamer, does not have the patience for trial and error. Not everyone has the time or staying power to fight one enemy for 30minutes, dying over 12 times and reloading frequently so their PC lags like it was 15 years old. Very easy should mean, "Hit enemy with stick, you win, hoorah". While those of us who love RPG's will play on a hard difficulty, if you wish to make a profit and earn money, you need to make the game playable by all... and that includes kids, old people and people with no hand-eye co-ordination. As it stands, Beyond Divinity actually needs pretty good reflexes, it's not a game for a 'newbie' gamer, nor for a casual gamer. It taps into an extremely elite market and one which, unless they played RPG's before... would be totally lost/clueless. Manuals can only go so far. The reason Divine Divinity wasn't successful was most probably the learning curve/difficulty. I remember playing it the first time and then leaving it until I had the patience to sit there for a weekend and learn it. Mr. Average would leave it and not come back... he'd rather trade it for Halo or something and kill anything moving. Unfortunately, the games industry is very focussed on casual gamers and it will not change anytime soon. Granted, it's just my opinion, but i've seen too many FANTASTIC developers go under, because they appeal only to a specialised market. For example: Two great British developers of all time; Bullfrog and the less known Mucky Foot (Startopia)... gone. It's sad, and I for one don't want to see it happen to Larian. Money talks in our world.

13) Warriors... I still believe Warrior is Strength and Endurance. If I wanted Martial Arts and spin-kicks, i'd invest in a monk. I really just cannot see a 6'2", 260lbs+ guy dancing the highland fling whilst smiting enemies with a tremendously huge great-axe. It just wouldn't happen... armour and weapons weigh enough to totally void movement in the first place... remember, 'knights in armour' had to be hoisted onto a horse, full-plate armour is extremely hard to move in. I just can't understand why I need to be able to move around like a sugar-plum fairy, just to hit my target. Warrior = Biceps are bigger than their heads. Beyond Divinity Warriors are more a variation of a ranger. Like an 'Aragorn' I guess.

----------Really long, I apologise for that, I just like to explain my thoughts (and back them up)----------------

The Positives

1) The Atmosphere I love Larian made worlds, they are fun and crazy. The imp village made this game for me, it's just hilarious to walk around it and talk to NPC's. Especially the female ones, real classic. Reminds me (no offence) of 'sitcom comedies' on British Television, where the mothers/sisters always moan at the no-hoper males. "Imp Hero" is one of the best characters in the game... especially seeing as he lies about doing anything. The Citadel is cool... if a little long. I really got a bit bored near the end, as it was too long and dull, but overall it was a fun starting environment. The ambient sound really brings out the atmosphere too.

2) The Humour Simply classic... without this humour, the game wouldn't be anywhere near as enjoyable for me. I just wish, as I said, that the voice-actors did the humour justice. Some of the lines would of been much better, delivered well... instead of 'bored'.

3) The Combat Nothing beats hitting a critical and hearing that "SQUISH" noise. It just makes all that training worthwhile, to crit a nasty human scumbag with a SQUISH. Especially when they die immediately after with an agonising "ARGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHH". The 3d element has added to the combat greatly and I love how it feels like the training pays off, when you kill a hard enemy, such as an Earth Elemental.

4) The Difficulty "Woot" it's in both positive and negative...well as I said, I love RPG games so for me difficulty makes the game more rewarding/satisfying. My whole 'impressions' are written on how I view the game in total, not just my own feelings whilst playing. I really love getting beaten up, except if it's by four earth elementals casting earthquake... that's just frustrating.

5) The Graphics I really love the new character models... it's just a shame all models are the same. I kinda liked how in Divine Divinity each class had a different base model. None-the-less, the new models are nicely detailed and armour looks great now, which is an improvement over Divine Divinity. Females in the first game, looked a little... 'weird' in fullplate imo. I much prefer the new armour. I just wish the backgrounds were a little better when zooming in. They look too blurred.

6) The Death Knight Some of his comments in later Acts are hilarious. I love his hatred of imps and his want to kill them in suitably horrific ways.

-----------------End--------------

I'll post more positives when I think of them.

I really do not wish to tread on toes but, I just feel if everyone protects Larian too much, it does more harm than good. If some issues are not addressed (which are said by a lot of people in here, and whom all have said they like the game overall), Larian won't get the money they need for Divinity 2. Nor will they address things which stop people playing mid-game. It's nice to have a very strong and close community, but sometimes support can be too much... like sheltering a child, too much protection and they'll never be able to fend for themselves in the real world.

I love Divine Divinity. I like Beyond Divinity. I want to love it, but I can't.

I've seen many posts here in the past few weeks from people defending Beyond Divinity, yet they do not even own the game yet. This in itself puts many people off buying the game as nobody likes a die-hard fanboy. It's the same as butt kissing your boss. As much as I love Larian's games, I really think this whole 'sheltering them' from negative feedback everyone is doing, is doing more harm than good. It's happened to companies before and will happen again, if the money suddenly dries up.

--------------

Thanks for reading again (if you read the first one). Sorry I deleted it, but I don't want to be an 'enemy' of the forum... i'm a fan like everyone else. I just believe Larian need support in BOTH negative and positive forms, if they are going to succeed and get what they DESERVE. Fame, fortune and success.



Posted By: LordMalis

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 09:57 AM

Quote:

Now all I get is the feeling something, somewhere, has died and all the musicians look like this .





LOL..
Posted By: Plowking

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 10:33 AM

I'll keep it brief!

Really enjoying the game at the moment.

Always liked the item-mongering aspect of Diablo and the hack hack hack...but thankfully with a lot more depth to it than diablo is proving more satisfying.

I am annoyed about the messy inventory, and the sudden-death traps, but I suppose that's what the trap skill is for...

Very happy that you can teleport at will to the battlefields and get rid of the crap you don't need! I hate been encumbered with stuff I can't sell...it's painful leaving items behind so I'm glad I can just teleport and sell them.

The voice acting is good in places bad in others...

Not bothered at all by the DK voice, for me it's better than the demo and has anyone noticed he sounds exactly like Serious Sam from the game of the same name?
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 11:43 AM

First of all =>
Div cost me a keyboard (smashed my fists on it, cause of Josie - and a water kettle - overheard it as I was trying to find out how to wash dishes)

BD cost me a headset so far => smashed it on the ground. Maybe we might meet in a psychiatric clinic, Monkehman ? so, I really understand frustration!

About EA => yes, they are overpowered, specially the earthquake spell. I had no probs with their other spells, my resistance was at 21. Everytime I saw one, I started to quake in my shoes. Played on very easy, BTW - but I consider myself a lousy fighter...

DK => Hmm, he gives wrong advice in some cases - and he depends my hero fully. I don't want to give away spoilers, I think, you might understand in the end, why he acts like honeymoon. Only this: he is devious. And as he was pink from Act 2 on, he merely amused me.

Act 3 quests => I agree, felt bad at some quests and then decided to skip some. I lose fun in a game if I have to kill needlessly. I still had enough ranking points to carry on. I understand you - being a double crosser is not my game style. (Even though I love to steal...)

BF => I didn't like them and could complete the game without going in there much. Just checked if dungeon entries were open - and in my last game, I skipped even that - in the meantime, I had found out my style and how to overcome probs. (Played it several times now, to see version differences.)

Inventory => hmm, I like to keep my stuff tidy - so I started to build "roads" - used the large inventory to group my stuff by scrolling, so I had a large overview. But I understand - it's easier to have the Div inventory.

Paladin/hero => I saw my hero differently - more the "I'm a beginner type". Yes, I would have preferred Kiyana to be a bit stronger - but as I said, I consider myself a lousy fighter. I wasn't a paladin - I was a disciple of this Order (probably the very low ranks). So, as she had to survive in a very dangerous way, I saw no prob in her beginning a stealing career (HA! I was corrupted already by all Div gamers and their ways to steal... learned a lot)

Neutral creatures: OH YES!!!! I agree fully. I can't count my reload times. I wish very hard, this would be changed.

items => didn't pick up everything. I agree, less and better quality would be fine - but I was lucky, I found orange items here and there (buy/find) - and I would have loved to have my char in shadow armour totally, liked the glimmer. But my leather armour was very good, so I kept to it.

Difficulty => I agree. Very easy is what I would see as "normal". Yes, this is not for mainstream gamers. The whole game takes up a lot of concentration and patience in my case - to understand plot twists, hints etc. And the combat, of course (did I mention, I'm a lousy fighter?)

Skill system => I think my differing opinion is clear in that, hm? I don't compare Div/BD skills - I liked both. Div was definitely easier. I needed discipline in BD not to take up too much skills - but this is challenging for me - maybe frustrating for others. I don't say it's good/bad - just needed a different approach. And I understand Div gamers mourning for this system

Voices => German version has no speech. I prefer to play in silence anyway - I read too fast for this and like to jot down notes (old pen&paer RPG tradition). I think, it's not easy to suit every taste.

Music => well, this time I played in total silence - the game took up my whole concentration. I think, I will use this option, as soon as I feel secure in the game (combat).

Positives =>
this was the first time, I left my usual mage way and tried archer. Never had experienced this fun before - I loved the large variety of arrow types very much.

Humour => yep, liked that, too - sarcastic, sinister, callous - or when remembering these thievish imps => just sweet. I loved them! As I had a tooth ache myself, I really had to laugh about the Black Bishop in Act 3.

Act differences in landscape => The "merry" landscape in Imp Village, then the dark and sinister areas. Later on the beautiful Crystal Forest. These switches were extreme and I found beauty everywhere - though I took out the fog, so I could see enemies better. I liked the bubbling lava - and well, I really developed emotions for the Raanaar and their bond to honour. BTW, I think, this was the cause of their downfall. I recall, I spent some time thinking about their virtues and how/if they would survive in RL.

Brainy riddles => specially in Act 4. I felt like Miss Marple at times.

Personal conclusion => BD is more difficult than Div - has more edges, is not smooth, is "darker". And I think this game is challenging in a way I like => wanting to cope and understand. I am tied to it - but in a different way than in Div (Div called my inner child) - BD calls the adult in me. I'm sorry, I can't explain it better.

I do hope, my post is not defending BD at all costs or forcing my opinion unto anyone - it's just how I see the game. It has its ups and downs - places I like, quests I dislike - combat enemies I hate and fear. And moments, where I laughed my head off and thought... YEP, Larians, it's a typical Larian game.
Kiya


Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:04 PM

Fabulous post. Pretty much sums up everything I've said/thought and added in some things I had long since forgot about.

Deathknight: I pretty much overlooked his voice and demeanor for the most part.

Battlefields: Way buggy and an afterthought to balance the game due to the difficulty of Tactical (which is what the game was supposed to be played on)
I'm anxiously awaiting Morbo's attempt at playing the game on Tactical without ever entering a battlefield.

Inventory screens: I didn't hate them in BD, but they aren't quite as clean as in Divinity (which wasn't clean either by any means)

Skills: Again, this is basically what I've said repeatedly. I'll let his post stand on its own.

Story: I pretty much overlooked the whole Paladin thing as well. I'm willing to suspend disbelief, and believe that a Paladin in that situation (soul forged to a death knight) would do anything to escape and live to free himself and continue the fight against evil.

Voices: Some are funny, some aren't. Another thing I can overlook.

Neutral creatures: For this, I'll suggest that once you decide you are not going to attack neutral creatures, that clicking on them for the rest of the game would result in nothing. I got pretty annoyed in Act 1 when I kept having to answer yes or no to attack a rat.

Music: It's pretty good I think. I don't have a strong opinion on the music other than I think it gets a little repetitive at times.

Items: I agree, there are a lot of items to pick up (and I pick up EVERYTHING that isn't nailed down..plates/bottles..you name it) and a HUGE lack of good items from what I've seen thus far. I even have my main character (who is a mage) pumped with more survival (for the luck) than intelligence. I figured huge luck would yield nice loot, this has not turned out to be the case. In Divinity I remember getting a lot of wise items. This is one major problem I overlooked earlier when bringing up BD issues.

The Hero: No comment yet.

The Difficulty: I have no problem with the difficulty. I've only played on Tactical so far, but I love it. It's pretty much perfect. This could come from the fact that I play more strategic combat games a lot. (Silent Storm for one) Granted I've died a number of times simply because there is a good bit of luck involved sometimes, but I haven't had much of a problem with any fight so far. I use pause, set my strategy, use heal potions if necessary and make sure everything is going well. For the skeletal mages early on, it is not too wise to chase after them if they are going to run 30 yards away, drawing in every enemy in range to kill you.

Warriors: As far as I can tell, the only real reason to up your strength is so you're able to wield the better weapons in the game.

Merchants: Merchants gold is very low as he stated. I don't believe it regens either.

----------------------------

"I love Divine Divinity. I like Beyond Divinity. I want to love it, but I can't."
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:14 PM

I am starting out on 'tactical' and I just ran into 4 Skeleton Mages, they are tough for my two guys, (died almost 10 times) so I'm exploring the battlefields right now
Posted By: DiAnna

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:25 PM

Warhammer, excellent post, just excellent. Covers my thoughts extremely well. I also agree with much of Kiya's posts.

BD has so many wonderful concepts, but they have been ruined for me by either massive bugs (my summoning doll won't stay summoned, the BF's are uselesss) or design decisions that have led to frustration rather than fun (withholding information on charms, alchemy, etc.; uncountable reloads by stepping on neutral animals; serious balance issues in combat).

Yet I love the story concept so far. I love everything about BD except the way it was actually implemented. Does that make sense? (Probably not; it barely makes sense to me and I know what I mean! )

I hope Larian will take BD feedback into account when constructing DD2. And yes, despite my problems with BD I will buy DD2 the moment it hits the shelves. I have confidence that Larian will analyze gamer feedback, learn from it, and give us another RPG Of The Year contender in DD2!

Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:25 PM

One thing I forgot to mention, is that in the trade screen, it would be very nice if when you click on the repair icon it would either bring items that need repaired to the top or remove all items that do not need repaired from the screen. The same goes for identifying items.
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:29 PM

*** SPOILERS ***



Finally got past Act 3 (killed Witch Kiya, so i'm pretty confused how you replied to my post... or am I taking roleplaying a bit too far? ) and have a couple more positives and thoughts:

Positives

1) I really loved the Death Knights comments to the Necromancer during the final encounter. That was just classic, its just a shame he didn't last longer, he cast hold on my main character, but the Death Knight kicked his backside solo finally, he killed something instead of everything killing him.

2) I really loved the end of Act 3 in general, moved the story along well and regained my interest. I think the 'Act 4' Intro movie made me smile the most, seeing Death Knight making a "Black Bishop" kebab was pretty nice... if only it was seasoned with imps.

3) The last necromancer quest was hilarious... that farmer in the swamp, classic.


Negatives

1) Only one, I don't know if this has been noticed by anyone else, but in Act 3 when the Ranaar priestess asks you to get her symbols, if you click on them in the wall... the DK's voice is different. I don't know if that's his Demo voice, (I never played it, I was always going to buy and didn't wanna ruin it) but it sounds quite evil. I actually prefered it I think, but it's a negative because I guess it's another bug.



*** End of Spoilers ***




Posted By: Plowking

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 02:31 PM

I second that one about the trade screen and filtering the damaged and non-identified items...

Some good posts here, but strangley I haven't yet encountered anything seriously buggy. Not too far into the game though and am tempted to stop playing until the next patch arrives.

But I've enjoyed it so far...
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 03:07 PM

Quote:

Finally got past Act 3 (killed Witch Kiya, so i'm pretty confused how you replied to my post... or am I taking roleplaying a bit too far?




Bad, bad error, Monkehman - you didn't kill her - you helped her to leave Nemisis and torture you guys here - and all other members at my library who steal books
Kiya

@To all: I really like the thread as it now - I learn a lot about different approaches - thank you
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 05:33 PM

Well I must say I agree much (if not everything) said by dorito or Kiya. But I also know theire are something that just weren't possible to do with the engine (example: messy inventory ). I am happy that the problems are beeing adressed so they can plan these changes while they make the engine. So Let the pro/cons list continue they are valuable feedback I was just a bit supprised with the first pages of this thread with all the cons. I think that everyone likes to read Pro/con list instead of cons/cons lists. Well but thats in the past now.

@DoritoOfDeath: I will try (and succeed) in finishing the game on tactical without going to the battle fields. I won't even manually alter my skillpoints with a hexeditor.

So in 2 years when I finish you can say "You were right"
Posted By: Philippe_Jacob

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 05:38 PM

Quote:

I am starting out on 'tactical' and I just ran into 4 Skeleton Mages, they are tough for my two guys, (died almost 10 times) so I'm exploring the battlefields right now




If you are talking about those level 8 skeleton mages, indeed, they are quite tough. But if you manage to lure one (or maybe two) at a time, and have enough potions, this is perfectly doable.



After all, this is "tactical". So, no Arnold "Commando" style here.
Although...

BTW: has anyone tried hardcore? Is this like Diablo, where your savegames are erased when you die?

Philippe
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 09:35 PM

The difficulty level only effects combat and your initial skill points; hardcore games are not erased if you die.
Posted By: flixerflax

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 10:18 PM

Warhammer:
Quote:

I wish there was some cross skill similarities though. Meaning if I had 4 points in 1-H Slashing accuracy, I automatically get 2 points in 1-H slashing + shiled, and 1 point in other 1-H weapons, or some such. Likewise there could be similarities between, disarming traps and picking locks, extract and combine,... and so forth.
Why would a grandmaster with a mace become 1 complete newbie when he gets a Shield in the other hand? Sure the technique is different but there are similarities.




This reminds me of the latest version of Diablo II. With the implementation of 'synergies', becoming proficient in a certain skill will slightly increase the power of similar skills. It's mostly used for spells rather than weapon proficiencies, though.

That being said, reading all your posts and reviews is making me crazy to get this game. I may have to order it if it doesn't show up in stores around here soon.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 10:33 PM

Quote:

This reminds me of the latest version of Diablo II. With the implementation of 'synergies', becoming proficient in a certain skill will slightly increase the power of similar skills.




Or in the expansions of NWN, where many of the thief skills are synergistic, or like listen, search, and spot, where if you take one skill, it provides a bonus of +2 to another.

Just order from Newegg.com. If you're in the US, you can get it within 48 hours (sometimes 24). Anywhere else in the world it might take a little longer, though, but at least it would be on its way and you would know when you are getting it.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 11:20 PM

Quote:

Warhammer:
Quote:

I wish there was some cross skill similarities though. Meaning if I had 4 points in 1-H Slashing accuracy, I automatically get 2 points in 1-H slashing + shiled, and 1 point in other 1-H weapons, or some such. Likewise there could be similarities between, disarming traps and picking locks, extract and combine,... and so forth.
Why would a grandmaster with a mace become 1 complete newbie when he gets a Shield in the other hand? Sure the technique is different but there are similarities.




This reminds me of the latest version of Diablo II. With the implementation of 'synergies', becoming proficient in a certain skill will slightly increase the power of similar skills. It's mostly used for spells rather than weapon proficiencies, though.

That being said, reading all your posts and reviews is making me crazy to get this game. I may have to order it if it doesn't show up in stores around here soon.




Don't worry too much. I know many people that are awaiting the next patch before continuing, in fact many of them are going to completely start over. It seems they are convinced that the Deathknight will be better suited as a mage in the long run. I am also pretty convinced of this atm. Of course, if the patch comes out in the next 2-3 days, I guess you can start worrying
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 04/05/04 11:53 PM

Quote:

It seems they are convinced that the Deathknight will be better suited as a mage in the long run.




Yeah, but now you're just talking about power gaming vs roleplaying. If you want to play the DK as a mage just because it makes the game a little easier, you might as well play Diablo 2 or another action game. To me, I just can't see the DK as a mage (or as a survivor for that matter), and I just got done a successful stint as a pyromancer in WBCII (of all games), so I wanted to play a fire mage in this one. I will roleplay these characters, in spite of the fact that I am not taking the easiest path through the game.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 12:01 AM

I don't think DeathKnight mage is unheard of.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 12:03 AM

My thinking is from a design standpoint. Much of the armor in the game requires high strength to use. If your character is a mage, they will be unable to wear much of worth. The DeathKnight however has armor that adjusts per level. By not going mage with your DeathKnight you could be missing out on using some of the more fun/cool items.

Unless of course you aren't going to make a mage with the other character.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 12:08 AM

For the record I do not know Blackjack, although it appears we are rather near each other in Vegas. I could drive around listening for DeathKnight voices.
Posted By: Chroniss

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 12:14 AM

Quote:

My thinking is from a design standpoint. Much of the armor in the game requires high strength to use. If your character is a mage, they will be unable to wear much of worth. The DeathKnight however has armor that adjusts per level. By not going mage with your DeathKnight you could be missing out on using some of the more fun/cool items.

Unless of course you aren't going to make a mage with the other character.




I think they shoulda just let the Death Knight have all slots open, games hard enough as it is, no need to restrict the player further...just dont show any graphical changes on him.
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 08:14 AM

Quote:

think they shoulda just let the Death Knight have all slots open, games hard enough as it is, no need to restrict the player further...just dont show any graphical changes on him.




Well I guess they are trying to say he's already wearing armour, so the player wonders how he looks inside perhaps. Who knows, although I agree it severely restricts his usage. Perhaps boost his natural AC a little in a patch, because frankly, in Act 1 and 2 he is the main reason for most of my reloads. Ye olde Death Knight of Doom, suckeths.

As for him being a mage... I agree in a sense it can seem like power-gaming. On the other hand, why not roleplay him as 'unusual' in that respect? It could be a reason why Samuel always singles him out, because he's 'different'. Awww lil' Deathy Knighty was bullied
Posted By: Warhammer

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 08:33 AM

Quote:

Well I guess they are trying to say he's already wearing armour, so the player wonders how he looks inside perhaps.




My assumption is that the DK is just an empty animated armor. That's why he hates rats, they actually can get inside him.

Anyhow, it explains why he will not get rid of his armor: He is his armor.
[/crackpot theory]
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 11:18 AM

Quote:

My assumption is that the DK is just an empty animated armor. That's why he hates rats, they actually can get inside him.

Anyhow, it explains why he will not get rid of his armor: He is his armor.
[/crackpot theory]




I'm not too sure he hates rats because they get inside him, he hates imps too and that'd just be plain wrong if one got inside his armour. It'd be pretty funny, but I really think the doctor in Act 1 is enough


Posted By: Warhammer

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 11:20 AM

Quote:

I'm not too sure he hates rats because they get inside him, he hates imps too and that'd just be plain wrong if one got inside his armour.




On the contrary, the imp inside him would explain the voice.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 07:54 PM

Quote:

For the record I do not know Blackjack, although it appears we are rather near each other in Vegas. I could drive around listening for DeathKnight voices.




We don't know each other, but then again there are over a million people in Vegas, and we don't even know each other's real names. You would have to drive around the extreme south (central, between E and W) end of the valley (but still in Vegas, not Henderson) listening for voices to even have a chance of finding me.
Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 08:04 PM

Unless of course you put your real name in your profile...
Posted By: Womble

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 08:15 PM

I just noticed that. A fellow chemist too! Hey dude!
Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 09:25 PM

Quote:

I think they shoulda just let the Death Knight have all slots open, games hard enough as it is, no need to restrict the player further...just dont show any graphical changes on him.




Or...why not make this a user option? Or tie it to the game difficulty level: you can select full armor for the Death Knight, if you choose (let's say) either of the two easiest play levels.
Posted By: Blackjack

Re: Please post impressions. - 05/05/04 10:44 PM

Quote:

Unless of course you put your real name in your profile...




Brain freeze. . .yes, actually I did put my real full name in my profile.

Heya Womble! Yes, I am one of the (few) chemists here in Vegas. After the lab I was working for closed, I got a job working for Shaw, an EPA Contractor, basically QA'ing lab data.
Posted By: Womble

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 12:54 PM

Quote:

Quote:

Unless of course you put your real name in your profile...




Brain freeze. . .yes, actually I did put my real full name in my profile.

Heya Womble! Yes, I am one of the (few) chemists here in Vegas. After the lab I was working for closed, I got a job working for Shaw, an EPA Contractor, basically QA'ing lab data.




Ew! QA work ain't interesting. (I apologise if you like it, but you'd have to be a bit odd to!) I work in a nice research lab. Plenty of that around Boston. Hey, at least your nightlife is better though!
Careful, Dorrito will be after you now! Don't say anything good about !

Dorrito, that's a joke.....
Posted By: Plowking

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 01:00 PM

I'm a software tester...of all things!!

Generally not games though !

It's really boring at times, and sometimes interesting, just depends on what you're actually testing...mainly I do elearning courseware!

Don't need to a software tester though to spot the issues in BD.

Really enjoying it so far...but the QA on it before release should have been a lot more rigorous!


Posted By: DoritoOfDeath

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 01:39 PM

Personally I'm curious on what Dennis thinks about the bugs in BD?
Posted By: Elliot_Kane

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 06:14 PM

Good fun game so far. I've only just started really, but I'm enjoying myself immensely

The skill system seems to work really well, and my overall impression is very positive.
Posted By: Zed

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 07:09 PM

This is a reply to KIYA on page 2 of this topic, hope she reads this!

My god, who stepped on your toes???

BD IS a lot buggier than DD. I'm not talking about the amount of bugs or the amount of patches here, only nerds or fangirls do that...
I played DD from the release and did the same with BD. In BD the bugs are more significant when it comes to gameplay, DD never made me pull my hair out because of a crash or messed up quest! I really am sick paying for games that are not even finished (a very buggy game is not finished!) so I have to stay online for hours (ISDN) to download the unreasonably large patch!

Why not comparing? Larian themselves say this is the SECOND GAME in the DD universe! Of course everybody is gonna compair this. It is not an unique game! In fact all elements of BD and DD can be seen in the first approach of Larian, called LMK! So don't think you're the one who knows it all...that pisses me off!!!

Anyway, now for my impression...

DD was one of my all time favorite RPG's (and I played a lot). I liked the open world and non-linear story. I liked the fact that you could gain unlimited amounts of gold. I liked the basic skillsystem and the fact that you where al loner in a big, big world. I also liked the graphics, design and music.

All are gone except the last...

In BD the skill system is bogus. It pretends to be the icing on the cake, but all it does is rearanging skills which are present in any decent RPG. It gives you some freedom, but it is not unique.

I hate the fact that I'm controlling 2 persons in this game. If you want to make a RPG with a party than do something like Baldurs Gate or Icewind Dale. Now I can't connect with my own character because it is so bland. The deathknight is a nice touch, but I feel no sympathy for him either. In this cast 1 + 1 = less than 1.

The interface is beautiful and there is not much I can complain about. Well, there is one thing. Why can't I open TWO potion windows??? Now I have to switch between my character and the Deathknight while I'm fighting like crazy. Is this to justify a pause mode?

The story is very linear. I hope this takes up in act 3 because until now I really can't enjoy the gameworld (which was awesome in DD). Like somebody already said, if you want to cross Diablo 2 with Ultima...DON'T!!!

No restock of cash on the merchant...and this is fun??? My favorite part in any RPG is collecting stuff, selling it for gold, buying better stuff or get filthy rich like Uncle Scrooge. Why the hell can't I do that in BD??? I have to ponce around with all the good stuff because no merchant has any descent amount of gold! I know most countries are in sort of a resession, but this is a game!

OK OK, there are good sides. I love the graphics, as was the case with DD. I love the speech and music. The game keeps me hooked even if I'm getting frustrated now and then, so that means it is not bad. Just flawed...

I give DD: 9/10
I give BD: 6/10 at the end of act 2...hope this improves!

Greetings,
Zed




Posted By: Dhruin

Re: Please post impressions. - 06/05/04 11:02 PM

I don't like a number of the changes in BD but generally I would congratulate Larian for taking a different approach and a different view of the Divinity universe. I'm sure many of the things you liked about DD will be back in DD2...but this isn't DD2 and I think that's generally a good thing. It's a pity BD lacks some polish but DD definitely had plenty of "messed-up" quests, so I can't agree that BD is worse from that perspective.

I assume from your comments you're in Act2...at this stage you've probably only encountered hints of the "real" story, so don't worry about that. I see a lot of people quoting the non-linear nature of DD but they somehow forget the opening Act was primarily a thoroughly linear and restrictive dungeon.

Just out of curiosity, how does the IWD party system allow you to "connect" better than BD?
Posted By: janggut

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 02:14 AM

hello zed,

welcome to the forum (though real life interaction is better, yes?) & we appreciate your opinions. however there's no need to be overly aggresive (or maybe i'm aggresively meek? pick one) as kiya is a very very very reasonable person & able to handle intelligent discourse.

well i can see that u like collecting stuff in RPGs, just like a number of other gamers. but not all of them. i don't like carrying stuff unless i need the money the stuff can get me or something. otherwise, i like to use what i already equip myself with.

as for better interaction between the two PCs, i agree that it could be better.

overall, larians are doing great with this game & if not for the incessant rants from fans like u & me, larians will go straight to making DD2 & not BD. BD is made to shut fans like me up. guys & gals of larian have worked their butt off to complete this & at the same time doing their best in the upcoming DD2 as well as project X. that'sa lot of work for a relatively small game development company. please appreciate their work before shooting them in the head.

heck, i buy original games like u as well (i'm assuming here) & i know we work hard for our money. but that doesn't mean that money makes us gods.

look, i'm not being condescending here but just be more diplomatic, at least in words & presentation of your opinions. no need to hurt anybody to be heard. we live real lives as well & we have real feelings despite our 'morbid' fascination with forum interaction.
Posted By: crusader

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 04:39 AM

i haven't played BD yet as it's not yet available in my country. but judging from what i've read, it has its flaws. well, let's just be glad that larian listens to its market. it's a sign of a good company. think of two good gaming companies, blizzard and bioware; the reason they're both very successful is they are very much attuned to their own respective gaming communities.

i couldn't say the same for black isle/interplay though, makers (or publishers???) can't recall anymore, of the hugely popular baldur's gate & icewind dale series. i once was an active member of the interplay forums as i was playing icewind dale II then. imho, it was a good game, but it was notoriously difficult, even on easy mode. a lot of the people in the forums complained on a lot of things about IWD2, from the difficulty to the poor pathfinding, to the scenarios where you have no choice but to pray as after the loading screen finishes, your party is thrust into a battle. sort of being force-fed into a lion (think of the early christians in rome).

the worst part was, there were some poster fanboys/fangirls claiming that, no the game is very much beatable/easy. well, yes of course it was easy, if you've been playing the game for the hundredth time! you already know what type of opponent/monster you will come across in the map, you already know what spells you can ready for your sorcerers/wizards, etc. etc. etc. but what about those of us who just played the game for the first time or don't have all the time & patience in the world to load and reload everytime the party dies? so a developer has to make the game as appealing as possible to a wide spectrum of the market, from the newbies to the hardcore gamers, in order to generate more sales. and let's face it, from a practical standpoint, it is sales that will bring profits for a company, and it is profits that will enable the company to produce better games.

what did interplay do despite all the complaints about IWD2? nothing. well, actually they did something:released another sub-par game in lionheart. look at where interplay is now. they couldn't pay rent on their offices, titles have disappeared from their site (goodbye baldur's gate III?), and their stock price has plunged to $0.075. truly sad.

bottomline is, don't neglect the people who complain about so & so flaws in the game. they are the market, anyway. and the companies, not only the gaming ones, who knows and listens to their market well, are often the most successful ones.
Posted By: FleabitFox

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 02:35 PM

My impression is that when a thread is moved to another forum because it might seem 'negative'.. my impressions of the game go down considerably. I was waffling about getting this game, now I doubt I will. I have *never* had a thread moved on a board, or deleted.

I started the "Change skill points, I'll buy this game!" thread. I was asking about skill points, and then it evolved into a discussion about different ways the skill points could be done to make specializing an easier (and more fun) thing to do.

It was moved to "technnical problems."

Huh?

This is a technical problem how?

Seems the mods want to keep prospective buyers of this game seeing only nice shiny happy posts about this game. And that irritates me to no end. Sweep the problems under a rug will ya?

The possibility of buying this game went from "waffling" to "not likely!"

I'll be sure to spread the joy, to.

Pity, 'cause I loved Div Div so!

FleabitFox
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 04:39 PM

Quote:

My impression is that when a thread is moved to another forum because it might seem 'negative'.. my impressions of the game go down considerably. I was waffling about getting this game, now I doubt I will. I have *never* had a thread moved on a board, or deleted.

I started the "Change skill points, I'll buy this game!" thread. I was asking about skill points, and then it evolved into a discussion about different ways the skill points could be done to make specializing an easier (and more fun) thing to do.

It was moved to "technnical problems."

Huh?

This is a technical problem how?

Seems the mods want to keep prospective buyers of this game seeing only nice shiny happy posts about this game. And that irritates me to no end. Sweep the problems under a rug will ya?

The possibility of buying this game went from "waffling" to "not likely!"

I'll be sure to spread the joy, to.

Pity, 'cause I loved Div Div so!

FleabitFox





As you can clearly see for yourself, Flea, the BD and DD forums are huge. Not only does Larian cater to English speaking people but also German, French, etc. Almost every message/post becomes automatically buried amongst the flotsom and jetsom of consumer criticism. What started out for you as a simple inquiry, turned into something else. I highly doubt you or your post was singled out and viewed as a perspective "threat" of uncovering some vast conspiracy Larian is trying to cover up regarding their game. LOL I mean, give me a break!

So, you're not going to buy the game. That's cool. I've always shot off my other foot after shooting the first one. And I throw the baby out with the bath water. Why? It's reasonable, of course! Pullease! Cut the hystrionics and drama. Save it for when you do buy the game because you're going to need it then. And, should you decide not to buy the game, then the only person who really suffers is you (or maybe not suffer, but you certainly miss out on one fun experience!).


I think the Larian crew is trying to dance as fast as they can, even when the music has lost its tone. I pre-ordered BD and I always live and stand by my choices, even when they do not meet my original expectations. That's not to say that BD didn't meet my expectations - it has surpassed them. I am having just as much fun if not more playing BD than DD. It's much more challenging. I'm certainly not zipping through the game and all of its quests like I did in DD. I have been playing it for a week or so now. Restarted probably 4 times but that's my "M.O." with any RPG like this. (Morrowind took me at least 10 starts before I made it through the storyline). I still don't have a summoning doll! Maybe today!?! But more to the point, with all of the patches that have been released, the bugs in the game (which on my computer are due to the way *I* have things set up), wading through the complaints on this forum, I absolutely enjoy Larian's product. I support them and will continue to do so.

Simply because your post was moved to the Technical Forum does not mean Larian has some huge ulterior motive to 'scam' its consumers.


Faralas

Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 05:39 PM

Quote:

I think the Larian crew is trying to dance as fast as they can, even when the music has lost its tone. I pre-ordered BD and I always live and stand by my choices, even when they do not meet my original expectations. That's not to say that BD didn't meet my expectations - it has surpassed them. I am having just as much fun if not more playing BD than DD.




I wish I was having fun, Faralas. I *did* buy the game, based on the strengths of Divine Divinity and the solid potential of the demo, but some 10 *hours* later, I just got out of Act 1, and my characters aren't any fun to play. Fleabit is right to be annoyed about his post being moved; I started an experience discussion in General this morning; it'd be interesting to see if it got moved, too.

The fun of building up characters who can do something other than swat weapons is missing in this experience, at least for me. My characters don't do anything but kill monsters a little more efficiently, and take a little less damage. Goodie. I understand the game gets a lot less linear after Act 1, but I'm so burned out of "click the monster," and that's *all* my characters can do, since I don't have the skill points or the mana to go mage.

Basically, I'm now stuck with a game that is no fun for me to play. I'm hopeful that some SERIOUS balance tweaks get done, preferably by increasing the effectiveness of skill points, giving you more of them, getting rid of junky skills, and getting rid of superfluous weapon skills (1H weapon <> 1H + shield). If not, I'll probably just fire up a hex editor and give myself what *I* think would be fair... but that's hardly the gaming experience I wanted to spend $40 on.
Posted By: LordMalis

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 09:09 PM

I already posted this in the "Convince me" thread, but I didn't feel like redoing it for this one, so here it is again!


Alright, time for my 2 cents. Let me start off by saying that I've played both DD and BD all the way through to the finish.

I loved DD. Its one of the greatest games I've ever played, so its hard not to compare it to a game from the same company set in the same universe.

Graphics, music, and sound were all great in BD. Gameplay wise, it doesn't compare to DD. I've seen some people post with things like, "What did you expect, a clone, a rehash?" My answer is....yes.

BD is too linear. The very fact its broken into acts makes it linear. I still remember the first time I took a look at the journal in DD and opened the map: "Holy [nocando]!!! This game is freakin' huge!! And I can go anywhere MY path takes me?"

The atmosphere in BD is not as immersive as DD overall. Maybe its because the focus of gameplay is on both the "hero" and the deathknight as opposed to just the hero. However, I think its also in the little details, too. They took out the Traits page. <shakes head> How could they take out the traits page?

I don't know, it just seems to me that theres less of everything in BD. Less attributes (same points per level, but more attributes to spread them over), less skills (you pretty much have to specialize), less loot, less non-linearity, less immersion, less journal features (no traits ), just less of everything.

The skill system. Yup, I'm another of the "whiners" who doesn't like it. Its the exact opposite of DD. In DD I could be anything, warrior, mage, battlemage, you name it. In BD, you can only be one thing and that not very well. I mean seriously, when I think warrior, I think master of weapons. Not in BD. The most you can hope for is master of A weapon. When I think mage, I think master of magic. Again, not in BD. The most you can hope for is a master of one spell. Granted, your characters <rationalizing mode engaged> can trip and hit their heads (and have their pockets picked while their lying unconscious on the ground) to forget their skills and learn new ones <rationalizing mode disengaged> but its just too specialized for my taste. I WANT to be a powerhouse! I want my enemies to fear the sight of me!

Overall, the game was still fun, especially Act IV, but its no . But then again, it comes far closer to than any other game on the market. In the end, you must try it for yourself, for only you can be the judge!

And a special note for those who complain about complainers: We are not clones. Everyone has an opinion on the game. You are NOT the opinion police. Please don't dismiss anyone's opinion as "complaining" just because it differs from yours. Instead, express your own point of view on the game and let us all see things from a different perspective.




Disclaimer: All opinions in this post are those of the author, and therefore outweigh anyone else's.

Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 09:14 PM

Quote:

I wish I was having fun, Faralas. I *did* buy the game, based on the strengths of Divine Divinity and the solid potential of the demo, but some 10 *hours* later, I just got out of Act 1, and my characters aren't any fun to play. Fleabit is right to be annoyed about his post being moved; I started an experience discussion in General this morning; it'd be interesting to see if it got moved, too.





From the tone of your message I sense you feel the same frustration I did two days ago and believe me, I can empathize. Before yesterday I didn't even realize there was a 'world' outside of the dungeon area in Act 1. I naturally assumed that as characters we start out in a Dungeon and once we escape, we'd find land similar to that in DD. And my escape was going ssssssllooooooooow. Frustratingly so. That is until I decided to start again and customize my own characters (even the DK) right from the beginning. Both are wizards. I haven't spent a lot of time on figuring out the skillpoint system but from the little I do know and the way I've developed both characters, I am at least getting somewhere this time around. As of this minute I'm a level 11 Wizard in Samuel's fortress but I have the ability to jump back and forth between Battlefields/Merchants whenever I want. That's what's so truly great about BD. Btw, I still haven't found the teleporter stones or summoning dolls.

Two days ago, I kept getting blasted by four level 4 skeleton mages back in Samuel's dungeon and I thought, "Man, either I'm doing something wrong or this game is for the birds." More often than naught, it's me who has either overlooked something or missed a chest or door that's vital to opening up another part of the game.

And to set the record straight, I didn't mean to imply that Flea had no right to be upset or frustrated. Not by a long shot. No, I simply don't think Larian is purposely trying to mislead their customers or sell them a shoddy product. Some people will like this game and others won't. It's as simple as that.

I just finished Gothic I and II. I tried NWNs after that but for some reason, I am having a hard time getting used to the interface and gameplay. So that was frustrating for me so when BD arrived in the mail, I immediately loaded it and have been playing it ever since.

You sound like you're a fairly avid gamer so you already know that ten hours is not that long in a game as big as BD. I'm hoping to play this game for as long as possible. I have just about every other game on the market and I have to say that DD and BD are unique. I guess I like the "spirit" of the storyline and game play. Sorry you're not having fun yet. Keep trying though. You never know what's around that corner or on that wall that you haven't clicked on or seen yet!!




Faralas


Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 09:22 PM

Quote:

I already posted this in the "Convince me" thread, but I didn't feel like redoing it for this one, so here it is again!

BD is too linear. The very fact its broken into acts makes it linear. I still remember the first time I took a look at the journal in DD and opened the map: "Holy [nocando]!!! This game is freakin' huge!! And I can go anywhere MY path takes me?"




The designation of acts is purely an arbitrary one, and something that most RPG development teams I'm aware of (and I know people in several, and used to belong to one) do. Hell, even DD had three acts: the Diabloesque opening city, the extremely large and non-linear world, and the (sadly) empty desert. It's just a convention. It's what you do within any act, and how you join 'em together, I think, that gives that sense of non-linearity.

is linear and claustrophobic in Act I; and I think that act goes on too long without enough variety of color and incident. I'm reminded of the first dungeon in Baldur's Gate 2, where there was far more to discover in a smaller dungeon--and then, you were out, in the middle of an incredibly colorful and varied community. Bioware designed the contrast beautifully.

That said, Act II is considerably less linear. Each act is unique, and feels different.
Posted By: LordMalis

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 09:28 PM

Quote:

The designation of acts is purely an arbitrary one, and something that most RPG development teams I'm aware of (and I know people in several, and used to belong to one) do. Hell, even DD had three acts: the Diabloesque opening city, the extremely large and non-linear world, and the (sadly) empty desert. It's just a convention. It's what you do within any act, and how you join 'em together, I think, that gives that sense of non-linearity.





Good points. However, DD had at most 2 acts. The opening dungeon did not have to be done right away. It certainly made it easier to do it first, but you didn't have to. The desert was so small compared to the rest of the game I thought of it more as an encore than an act.
Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 09:44 PM

Quote:

From the tone of your message I sense you feel the same frustration I did two days ago and believe me, I can empathize. Before yesterday I didn't even realize there was a 'world' outside of the dungeon area in Act 1.


If I hadn't been "spoiled" by knowing there was an end to the dungeon slum, I wouldn't have gotten as far as to discover it personally. It's just too damn long.

2 wizards, hunh? Tough row to hoe! How do you deal with the incredibly costly spells? Just port back and forth to the Battlefields to restock on small mana potions?

The problem I'm having isn't in survival; I'm actually fairly efficient (both my characters are using low agility requiring swords that have been sharpened to nearly 3x their starting damage, toggled with using splitting arrow bows when meleeing gets too hard for my low HP hero). The problem is that I'm bored. And you're right, 10 hours is nothing to an avid gamer; I'd feel cheated if I beat the game in anything less than 30-40 hours. But I just don't see myself enjoying any more time spend in BD, not based on the last 10 hours of gaming investment I've already sunk in.

Quote:


And to set the record straight, I didn't mean to imply that Flea had no right to be upset or frustrated. Not by a long shot. No, I simply don't think Larian is purposely trying to mislead their customers or sell them a shoddy product. Some people will like this game and others won't. It's as simple as that.




Naturally -- I'd enjoy it more myself if the similarities to DD's playing style were greater. There's just nothing fun for a non-mage to do BESIDES click on monsters, whereas in the original, warriors and survivors had all sorts of little tricks they could do to soften up combat. The lack of useable skills, coupled with the lack of skill points and the plethora of broken or awful skills, really limits how much I care to develop my heroes. I don't think that Larian is attempting to be deceitful in any way... but for crying out loud, some skills just do not work at all!

I'm still eager to play; I know a lot of work goes into Larian's games, and I'm sure I'll enjoy what's to come. Which is why I'm lurking here instead of playing -- I'm waiting to see if things improve. As they are now, I don't like the playing experience I've had so far, and I'm not willing to play anymore. If things change for the better in terms of game balance, I'd fire up my copy as soon as the patch was installed.
Posted By: Thor_the_Almighty

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 10:03 PM

i am sorry to say this but beyond divnity is complete bollox. the combat is slow, the level advancement is slow, the skill allocation is really bad, the first 10hours or more of gameplay are really boring and i thought i was going to fall asleep and what happended to freedom?
you start in a dungeon, which is fair enough but i didnt think i would still be in it a week later. why have the traders in the battlefields got no money? Why is the game so stupidly irritating because of all the gay stuff the deathknight says? why couldnt you have just had 3d characters in divnine divinity? it would have been a better game, possibly the best.........you have failed larien, for shame.
Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 10:12 PM

See, while I'm not happy with Beyond Divinity, I'm not trolling about it. Thor, the money thing's been fixed; battlefield merchants are filthy with cash nearly every time I visit with a full load. The other issues you mention I agree with (except the Deathknight, who I find amusing) -- those all could well be corrected with a solid effort to balance the game.

Hopefully, that's coming...
Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 10:21 PM

Thor, with respect, I think you're getting too wrapped up in it, and it's really frustrating you--I don't think you'd be posting as you are, or responding in the way you have elsewhere to light ribbing. Try another game for a week. Let the patch blitz pass. is pretty stable, now, though I agree with the reviewer in IGN that skills are very unbalanced. Hopefully, that will be fixed, too, in time. Meanwhile, disperse your energies among several activities; maybe play another game or two. Once you download the latest patch and give another try, maybe you'll like it. Not that I'll know, but why it's hardly worth the effort getting so frustrated.
Posted By: FleabitFox

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 10:45 PM

I'm not in hysterics or anything (and I'm a girl btw, not a guy).. I'm just really curious that my thread was moved to a forum that has nothing to do with the topic. I don't feel there is a conspiracy, especially by Larian.. I doubt those who moderate these boards work for Larian.

And I never go into hysterics, I'm just cross. I had a valid post about ways to perhaps enhance the skill system, and it gets moved to no mans land. I mean sheesh.. they could have at *least* moved it to suggestions or something instead!

And as far as the game goes.. I defended Div Div adamantly, from its silly name to the gameplay. I loved it, finished it, and thought it was one of the better CRPGs I had played in awhile.. and i play a lot of 'em!

I want to get this.. heck, I almost bought it today. I held the box in my hands.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. The skill system is flat out wonky. When a warrior can't even completely specialize in say.. two weapons, something is wrong. A mage should be proficient in several types of magic, not just one spell.. that's just silly imo.

I like posting suggestions in the main forum for a few reasons. For one, it is the most read. For two, the devs DO read the forums, at least some of 'em do. And three, if enough people are vocal about something, oftenly they will listen and change it.

I would like to think i'm a very good board citizen. I've posted on the Gone Gold and other boards for a long time, and i've never got a warning point.. had a post moved.. or caused a fuss. I just want this game to be as good as it *could* be with some tweaking. I just feel the skills really *really* need some tweaking. Let us eat cake!

wait.. let us buy skillpoints!

I really want to be a that is skilled in more than a couple spells.

FleabitFox
Posted By: Chroniss

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 11:16 PM

I think 2 skills per level is stupid, you will be godly for most of the game, as it was not balanced to have that many points, also buying skill points would accomplish the same thing, over-powered characters.

I'm level 24 now and my guys are pretty balanced in terms of winning and losing battles. Battles that are supposed to be hard are, and battles that are supposed to be a cinch I blow through, If I had twice as many skill points as I do now this game would be so easy.

And my Mage is doing pretty good, hes got Party buff, Insect swarm, Spike, Hammer, Lightning Storm, and Party Heal all level 3-5 and performing nice on the monsters in Act 3.

When I want another spell I just substitute one of those out for it, with the new patch money is no problem. I can see the criticism towards melee skills, my DK could use some more points, but for mages its pretty easy to have a nice build with the amount of skills in the game already.

Also I enjoyed the first dungeon, its all a matter of taste, for some reason some people hate dungeons, it makes them feel like they are restricted and chained down by the game, but if you just sit back and enjoy the game for what it is you will see that it is a very nice dungeon with lots of humor and attention to detail throughout.

Some people are too bent out of shape about linear vs non-linear gameplay, I dont view one as better then the other, but rather as two different game styles, each with their own advantages and disadvantages.
Posted By: Barta

Re: Please post impressions. - 07/05/04 11:47 PM

Quote:

I'm not in hysterics or anything (and I'm a girl btw, not a guy).. I'm just really curious that my thread was moved to a forum that has nothing to do with the topic. I don't feel there is a conspiracy, especially by Larian.. I doubt those who moderate these boards work for Larian.

And I never go into hysterics, I'm just cross. I had a valid post about ways to perhaps enhance the skill system, and it gets moved to no mans land. I mean sheesh.. they could have at *least* moved it to suggestions or something instead!




When a thread is moved to another section it is not a punishment.

There is a punishment when the thread is locked or when it is completely deleted.

I guess that there is an explanation. Maybe because the programmers use to read first the posts in the technical section which is not a "no man's land" but a very important section.
They are working on the patch and they don't have time to read all the posts in the general section.

Or maybe it is just an error. They wanted to move this thread instead of yours :
Some things i think could help fixing !

If you are pretty worried you could send a PM to Lynn or rat and ask why your thread has been moved.

I use to be in this forum since nearly one year and i can assure you that there is nothing bad about your topic.

Barta
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 01:34 AM

Quote:


2 wizards, hunh? Tough row to hoe! How do you deal with the incredibly costly spells? Just port back and forth to the Battlefields to restock on small mana potions?

The problem I'm having isn't in survival; I'm actually fairly efficient (both my characters are using low agility requiring swords that have been sharpened to nearly 3x their starting damage, toggled with using splitting arrow bows when meleeing gets too hard for my low HP hero). The problem is that I'm bored. And you're right, 10 hours is nothing to an avid gamer; I'd feel cheated if I beat the game in anything less than 30-40 hours. But I just don't see myself enjoying any more time spend in BD, not based on the last 10 hours of gaming investment I've already sunk in. ...


I'm still eager to play; I know a lot of work goes into Larian's games, and I'm sure I'll enjoy what's to come. Which is why I'm lurking here instead of playing -- I'm waiting to see if things improve. As they are now, I don't like the playing experience I've had so far, and I'm not willing to play anymore. If things change for the better in terms of game balance, I'd fire up my copy as soon as the patch was installed.




Now that you've explained your frustration in further depth, I do understand it. I don't normally play as a warrior (not just BD or DD - any game). So, of course, I can see why your gameplay is frustrating. You're right, there are no special or combination moves the avatar makes other than whirlwind or sneak. (This is to my limited knowledge since I haven't played as a fighter. I could be wrong and often times, I am! ).

As for playing as 2 wizards, I thought it would be a pain in the butt and I'd be on an intravenous drip of mana but surprisingly the way I've created my spells, that hasn't happened yet. Yes, I do jump back and forth between battlefields and the dungeon. Every time I jump out, the merchant restocks and it takes only a couple of minutes before I have enough potions to go on for another few hours. But I think I have a bug in my game. LOL

************************ POTENTIAL SPOILER ****************************







I'm patched to v 1.4 and everytime I kill a guard (named or unnamed -- in the training room of the drilling compound), I end up with a gazillion arrows (of every kind!). So, instead of using gold as 'gold', I've been using arrows. The Spiritual arrows (I think I have about 797 of them) bring in mondo $$. I already have over 30,000 normal arrows and that was accumulated from this afternoon's game play! LOL I don't think this was supposed to happen but I'm not going to complain.

***********************************************************************

But your point is well taken. If the game is no longer fun for you, it's time to move on to another one. As I've stated previously, I'm not 100% sure I understand the skillpoints system all that well. And certainly not well enough to offer suggestions for changes. But, so far, it's worked for me. I'm glad that you jumped into the discussion, Bif! It's been great talking with you.


Faralas






Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 02:00 AM

Quote:

I'm not in hysterics or anything (and I'm a girl btw, not a guy)..





Yeah, so am I but I don't think I made any reference to your gender. Apologies if I did so unaware.


Quote:

I'm just really curious that my thread was moved to a forum that has nothing to do with the topic.




Probably because this has to do with "Posting [players] impressions" [regarding the game], and since you don't have the game but are offering advice, why not post the message where the people who 'need' to see it, actually see it! Then again, you could always ask the moderator of the forum why your post was moved. Communication is the key to any success.


Quote:

I don't feel there is a conspiracy, especially by Larian.. I doubt those who moderate these boards work for Larian.




Your message reads differently. And yes, I believe some of the moderators do work for Larian.

Quote:

And I never go into hysterics, I'm just cross. I had a valid post about ways to perhaps enhance the skill system, and it gets moved to no mans land. I mean sheesh.. they could have at *least* moved it to suggestions or something instead!




Never? Wowie!! You're a much better woman than I!

Cross or hysterical, it makes no difference. You're right - you had a valid post that you can (believe it or not) still copy and paste into the "Suggestions" forum! But if I were you (and I'm not, obviously), I'd query the moderator.

Quote:

And as far as the game goes.. I defended Div Div adamantly, from its silly name to the gameplay. I loved it, finished it, and thought it was one of the better CRPGs I had played in awhile.. and i play a lot of 'em!

I want to get this.. heck, I almost bought it today. I held the box in my hands.

I just couldn't bring myself to do it. The skill system is flat out wonky. When a warrior can't even completely specialize in say.. two weapons, something is wrong. A mage should be proficient in several types of magic, not just one spell.. that's just silly imo.

I like posting suggestions in the main forum for a few reasons. For one, it is the most read. For two, the devs DO read the forums, at least some of 'em do. And three, if enough people are vocal about something, oftenly they will listen and change it.




If your post was merely a suggestion, that would be fine. But you're practically demanding that the developer change the skillpoints to your specifications and only THEN will you buy the game. LOL (Btw, what about those of us who like things the way they are? Hmmmm?) And, from what I can see, your point and message have been directed to the appropriate people. What more could you ask for? *covers ears*

Quote:

I would like to think i'm a very good board citizen. I've posted on the Gone Gold and other boards for a long time, and i've never got a warning point.. had a post moved.. or caused a fuss.




Welcome to your first official 'fuss'! Good job!

Quote:

I just want this game to be as good as it *could* be with some tweaking. I just feel the skills really *really* need some tweaking. Let us eat cake!




Since I'm an editor, I'm taking the liberty of changing that last sentence to "Let me eat cake." You do not speak for me.

Quote:

wait.. let us buy skillpoints!





You can't - you don't have the game.

Quote:

I really want to be a that is skilled in more than a couple spells.




Both of my characters *really* are mages and the spells rock!




Faralas
P.S. All responses were meant tongue in cheek. Author has been under the influence of Summoning Doll and Imps all afternoon.


Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 03:03 AM

Quote:


Now that you've explained your frustration in further depth, I do understand it. I don't normally play as a warrior (not just BD or DD - any game). So, of course, I can see why your gameplay is frustrating. You're right, there are no special or combination moves the avatar makes other than whirlwind or sneak.




Bingo. This as opposed to DD, which had a pretty fun assortment of fun warrior skills (boomerang, that move where you throw a bunch of clones of yourself in a straight line, poison weapons, multishot, elemental arrows, etc etc etc). I actually felt like I was doing something in DD; if I could set both of my party members to aggressive AI, I wouldn't need to do anything but order them to move to another location and kill more monsters

Quote:


As for playing as 2 wizards, I thought it would be a pain in the butt and I'd be on an intravenous drip of mana but surprisingly the way I've created my spells, that hasn't happened yet. Yes, I do jump back and forth between battlefields and the dungeon. Every time I jump out, the merchant restocks and it takes only a couple of minutes before I have enough potions to go on for another few hours. But I think I have a bug in my game. LOL




Got the same bug, if indeed it is a bug; money, good charms, and of course, sweet sweet arrows are super plentiful. And the equipment, if you're shopping for rings or nice bows, isn't that hard to come by as it was in DD. That I appreciate.

As for arrows > gold, yeah. That's an incredibly unbalancing thing, particularly for as damaging as Splitting Arrows are (if you're about 2 inches from your target, they shatter right on your foe, doing all 5 hits -- that and splinter arrows seem to ignore target defense partially or totally). That's what initially attracted me to bow wielding, toggled with a sword and shield once enemies were sufficiently whittled down.

Quote:


But your point is well taken. If the game is no longer fun for you, it's time to move on to another one. As I've stated previously, I'm not 100% sure I understand the skillpoints system all that well. And certainly not well enough to offer suggestions for changes. But, so far, it's worked for me. I'm glad that you jumped into the discussion, Bif! It's been great talking with you.




You haven't seen the last of me yet, Faralas! I still *do* intend to play, I'm just waiting for some balance before I invest any more play time. I'm to the point where I'm sure I don't want to continue playing the game as it is now, but I would like to play it if the skill boredom for non-mages (and the mana woes for mages, if the costs and inefficiency are an accurate indicator) can be reversed.

But yeah, disagree though we might, it's fun talking to you -- try a warrior for a little while, and you'll get the hang of what act 1 was like for me; point-click-chop. I'd like to try a mage (maybe leave the warrior on constant AI) -- what skills should I focus on?

Posted By: Chroniss

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 04:21 AM

I have no problems with mana as a mage, its just not much of an issue, I always have plenty of potions, and can cast about 5-10 times before I have to drink a potion again.

Just think some didnt play far enough to truly make your characters good, the games very hard at the beginning, thats universally understood, but too many people are playing Act 1 then commenting as if they played the entire game. Making comments like Mages suck and fighters are weak...my fighter is strong and my mage kicks butt, so I cannot relate.

I'm not refutting alot of the stuff said here, I agree there should be some changes to fighter skills and the way they work, but I dont know if more skill points is the answer.
Posted By: the_mighty_stamar

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 08:12 AM

I think the game is great. Im only on act 1 still though.
Im really looking forward to learning more about the Imps.

I think the voice actor for the death knight is mediocre at best. I like it more than the old voice though by a large margin i dun care what anyone says ;o) The problem in both of these actors, assumedly different, is that they are not acting the lines, just reading them all in the same voice.
The author of the dialouge of the death knight gave it lots of different emotions it was relating. Its not always angry or bored. Anyhow the voice actor doesnt do it justice that just the final word. But no big deal...

Some of what I think are new voices for the imp character s are very good though and funny, they sound like east-Indians.

Im addicted I cant wait til i have time to play tommorow.


PS starforce 3 was a good investment( recalling a developer diary I read here on this forum about the copy protection). I cant copy it even though my program says it copys it.... so I hope my disc doesnt scratch
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 08:28 AM

My impression is also a positive one. I am playing on tactical and I have no problems. I am playing as warrior/alchemist and archer/mage. So far I have 6 skill points open to invest in a powerfull skill when I get the shaman tree unlocked. I haven't seen bugs so far (playing 1.42). The voices are good. even th DK is good. But the first line of the DK was just bad (sounded like he had a broom in his [nocando]) but later on the voice was better.



the jury is still out on the skill system (having 6 points free seems a waste.)
Posted By: Morbo

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 08:28 AM

My impression is also a positive one. I am playing on tactical and I have no problems. I am playing as warrior/alchemist and archer/mage. So far I have 6 skill points open to invest in a powerfull skill when I get the shaman tree unlocked. I haven't seen bugs so far (playing 1.42). The voices are good. even th DK is good. But the first line of the DK was just bad (sounded like he had a broom in his [nocando]) but later on the voice was better.



the jury is still out on the skill system (having 6 points free seems a waste.)
Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 01:25 PM

Quote:

I have no problems with mana as a mage, its just not much of an issue, I always have plenty of potions, and can cast about 5-10 times before I have to drink a potion again.




5-10 spells isn't very impressive, you realize. Spell slinging in Divine Divinity was fun; I felt like Emporer Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, frapping legions of orcs with lightning bolts, then reanimating their corpses. All on less than a half tank of mana. The spell costs in BD appear to be so high that your mage requires an IV drip of blue potion.

Quote:

Making comments like Mages suck and fighters are weak...my fighter is strong and my mage kicks butt, so I cannot relate.



Fighters are strong -- just boring to play.

Quote:


I'm not refutting alot of the stuff said here, I agree there should be some changes to fighter skills and the way they work, but I dont know if more skill points is the answer.



If the skills were more general (i.e., slashing weapon mastery, none of this 1H/1H+shield/2H garbage), there would be enough skill points to make a fine warrior... but he'd still be a boring meatshield without any skills he could use beyond sneak and whirlwind.
Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 01:54 PM

5-10 spells isn't very impressive, you realize. Spell slinging in Divine Divinity was fun; I felt like Emporer Palpatine in Return of the Jedi, frapping legions of orcs with lightning bolts, then reanimating their corpses. All on less than a half tank of mana. The spell costs in BD appear to be so high that your mage requires an IV drip of blue potion.

That's very well put!

If the skills were more general (i.e., slashing weapon mastery, none of this 1H/1H+shield/2H garbage), there would be enough skill points to make a fine warrior... but he'd still be a boring meatshield without any skills he could use beyond sneak and whirlwind.

Same thing with the arrow skills. Who wants to play an archer that can only use one kind of arrow...? But you don't have much choice, if you want to get keep your bow skills high enough for use in later acts. The skills focus is too narrow. It's grim, it's no longer much fun.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 02:29 PM

Fable, as I'm an adept on archer skills => what do you mean with "only using one kind of arrow"? The additional damagae due to proficiency? Ive only maxed out my archer in bow skill and she does quite some damage. If I'm missing something, please, explain. So far I'm content with enough splitting/explosive arrows and keeping her out of melee. Would it make my archer life easier? Strong enemies are stunned with hammer lvl 4 and then finished off with arrows.

No, I'm not making fun of you - but so far nearly all my RPG were either paladin or mage.
Kiya
Posted By: Biflspud

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 02:35 PM

I think Fable means the "Fire Arrow Proficiency" type skills, which increase your damage when using a specific type of elemental arrow. I hadn't realized those were ever going to be important -- the increased damage from Bow Mastery is insulting (+8-12 for the first point, then like +1 every point thereafter), so I blew off the elemental arrow proficiency trainer when I saw him.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 03:22 PM

Please, explain again - was my decision to stick to the weapon and max out (on lvl 5 ) better? I haven't bought the proficiency skill. I know where - but... didn't consider it important. In orc easy archer words, please?
Posted By: Barta

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 03:39 PM

Quote:

Quote:

wait.. let us buy skillpoints!



You can't - you don't have the game.




Yes you can buy skill points !!!
There is a black market for skill points.

The skill points are stolen to some gamers and then they are sold to other ones.

It is the same black market than for the number of posts in the forum

Some forum members are aware of this system.


Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 04:21 PM



Quote:


But yeah, disagree though we might, it's fun talking to you -- try a warrior for a little while, and you'll get the hang of what act 1 was like for me; point-click-chop. I'd like to try a mage (maybe leave the warrior on constant AI) -- what skills should I focus on?




Well, I'm no expert since I'm still trying to muck my way through the first act but I started out beefing up my strength and intelligence straight off the bat. Neither one of my characters has any skillpoints in Warrior training except for craftsmanship (Identify, repair). And the DK is pretty good in melee even without the training, though he pretty much is a hacker. My character, is a wizard who also has no warrior training but wields a pretty good bow. In other words, I cannot access the skillpoints to train my characters as warriors. I just might take you up on your suggestion and try playing act 1 as a fighter who uses no magic (except for the survivor skills).

I know I've posted this already somewhere else on this board, but when creating spells in BD, I've found it best to save my level up games and take time to experiment with spell creation before committing to a particular one (i.e., focussed missile v. instant). And, as a general rule, I always create a good, old fashioned fire spell in any RPG I tackle. Often times that's all you need in the beginning. Monsters who are immune to fire usually spawn toward the middle or end of games thereby increasing their difficulty. Then again, I've been proven wrong using this theory.

But when creating a good mage, I concentrate on intelligence, agility, speed, strength and constitution. Those are the 5 major areas where I dump those skillpoints. Anything after that is icing on the cake (for me).

It's been a pleasure, as always. Talk with you later, Bif!


Faralas

Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 06:04 PM


MAY CONTAIN SPOILERS

I finally managed to complete the game last night, after the patch (it fixed my battlefield problems and I could finally restock potions and buy new armour etc ). The story was great, I can see what you meant now Kiya. Larian did a great job with the plot imo, I genuinely liked how it ended. Made me feel a mixed bag of emotions, which is always good in my view. I hate boring endings, makes me think of those sicky love stories or soap opera's on TV. *yawn*.

Final Impressions - After Completion

Skill Points: I still have the same issues with skill points, that won't go, but as i've said in the past: I love character development and getting attached to them.

Linear Gameplay: I actually LIKE the linearity of the plot though, after completing the game. It makes a nice change from Divine Divinity in my view, and gives me reason to continue playing the excellent DD. One with and one without (linear gameplay) actually gives me reason to play both instead of just playing BD alone as the updated version. Keeps DD fresh. I just wish as I said, there were less 'attention' grabbers which divert my view from the main plot. Act 3 had a little too many side quests and I got a little confused during it.

Music / Sounds: For some reason after patch 1.42 I started hearing songs I never have before. I do not know if some songs were 'stopped' by a bug, but I only heard 1 or 2 songs playing in a loop. Now I hear the full music and it no longer sounds like the musicians are playing at a funeral. Hooray for that. I love the music in the Divinity worlds. Dunno if it is the same song, but I also heard something sounding like the Dark Forest tune in Battlefields. Love that song, so catchy.

SPOILERS BELOW, WARNING WARNING (etc)

Difficulty: I never thought a fight could be as hard as Josephina (spelling?) In Divine Divinity... however the last enemy in Beyond Divinity made me use so many potions, I am due to meet with 'Alchamedic's Anonymous' on Monday. The feeling after killing the bugger was oh so good though. Bit of a shock however, as anything before that one enemy was pretty easy to kill. Overall the game is a good balance, just wish there was some warning before these fights, they are pretty eye opening when they suddenly occur .

Overall: A good game. I kind of agree with the general reviews around of 70-80%, it's good but not great. I think everyone's expectations are a tad too high after Divine Divinity, but I would of prefered just a little more freedom with character development and less 'walled in' quests/sections. Being stuck in the Act 4 location made me feel a bit claustrophobic. Definately worth completing though and i'd recommend anyone with patience buying it.

If people play this as and not Divine , the game is very playable and enjoyable (As long as bugs don't occur that stop progress).

Now i'm going to go through again as a magic user.

In closing: We all got bugs, I got as frustrated as any, but it didn't stop me playing the game. I was satisfied when I completed it, but I can understand those who cant play a bugged game. I'm just used to it I guess.

Good game, hats off to Larian for a great story again. Can't wait for DD2 to see what happens next.




Posted By: Coes

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 06:54 PM

Impressions...

I'm somewhere in act 1 atm, and also playing a bit in the battleground. Impressions aren't final yet, since I know what act 3 is like, and act 1 is totally different.

I like the skill system. You have to invest cash first, then skillpoints. So you have to think about it, twice. And players will make mistakes in that, but that's also a part of RPGaming. It's different from DD, it's a challenge, I like it. I don't play that many games, I don't know if other games have similar.

Combat has become different, more slow I would say. I'm pauzing all the time. I didn't intend to take archery and a bow, since arrows aren't unlimited anymore and have to be purchased or found or whatever, but now I think that's an improvement over DD, where the unlimited arrow-supplies was making the game somewhat unbalanced. There are plenty of arrows around.

The mana use is a bit too high. A bit of a decent elemental attack takes a big bite out of the available amount.

The graphics are exactly as I expected them to be.

I like the voices, except for that Imp that says "always fun exchanging stuff". Annoying little bugger.

I haven't patched yet. But the inventory interface should be better with the latest patch? I liked the DD interface better.

I'm an occasional player, I do a lot of other stuff besides gaming. And I don't think that the Beyond Divinity CD is going to leave my CD-ROM player in the coming months
Posted By: MonkehmaN

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 07:32 PM

Quote:


I like the voices, except for that Imp that says "always fun exchanging stuff". Annoying little bugger.





Indeed, I believe I know exactly the imp you mean. A couple also say a similar line upon trading later too. Perhaps we need a staff called "Imp Spanker" or something. The mind boggles.
Posted By: FleabitFox

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 08:35 PM

"But you're practically demanding that the developer change the skillpoints to your specifications and only THEN will you buy the game. LOL"

Um.. I really didn't expect them to make a gameplay change on my behalf alone, I was simply trying to stir the pot to see if any other prospective buyers felt the same way.

"Btw, what about those of us who like things the way they are? Hmmmm?)"

If there were a system where you could *optionally* buy skill points, you could continue to play the game as you are, it affects you not at all. Right?

"wait.. let us buy skillpoints!


you can't - you don't have the game."


I couldn't even if I had the game.


"Both of my characters *really* are mages and the spells rock!"

Ok, question for you then. Could you please tell me how many spells there are (approximate is fine), and how many you:

1. Specialize in. You rock critters socks using these spells.

2. How many you can put just one or two skill points into and still have it be effective for a good portion of your characters life?

The only problem I would have is if my mage was super gimped. Unable but to say, specialize in a couple of damage spells, and a very small handful of additional spells that were rather ineffective after a short period of time. Is this a problem, or are you able to have a versatile arsenal? And if so, is there a few skill points left over for additional skills not related to mage-dom?

Thanx for any info.. this is the sort O stuff I would like to know.

As far as being an editor, I wouldn't bother looking for errors in my posts, they are bound to be so full of them you will go nuts trying to correct them all.


FleabitFox
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 10:29 PM

Quote:


Ok, question for you then. Could you please tell me how many spells there are (approximate is fine), and how many you:

1. Specialize in. You rock critters socks using these spells.

2. How many you can put just one or two skill points into and still have it be effective for a good portion of your characters life?

The only problem I would have is if my mage was super gimped. Unable but to say, specialize in a couple of damage spells, and a very small handful of additional spells that were rather ineffective after a short period of time. Is this a problem, or are you able to have a versatile arsenal? And if so, is there a few skill points left over for additional skills not related to mage-dom?

Thanx for any info.. this is the sort O stuff I would like to know.

As far as being an editor, I wouldn't bother looking for errors in my posts, they are bound to be so full of them you will go nuts trying to correct them all.


FleabitFox





Good questions, Flea and I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Anyway, you want to know how many spells there are. See, it's not like in DD where there were a limited number of [specific] spells you could choose from and then increase in level as you went along. In BD you actually create your own spells (brewing them right in your own kitchen ) according to how you want to customize your character. There are 4 elements: Fire, Water, Air and Earth. The types of spells are: spread, focussed, instant, missile (there might be others, I'm still in Act 1).


So, it's not the pick and choose type of game where spells are concerned. There are 4 paths to choose from: Warrior, Wizard, Survivor and Summoning Dolls. Within each of those paths are other paths. I.e., under Wizard you can create a four faceted elemental spell of Fire, Water, Air, Earth which can either be in missile form, spread out over all the enemies or focussed (not sure I understand the differences between focussed and instant yet, but I'm working on it). You can start out as a warrior (which is probably not a bad idea for the first few levels) and then add wizard abilities. Or, you can begin as a Wizard, create a level 1 fire spell that will squish the skeletons and monsters you meet in the very first dungeon. You're not locked into one particular way of customizing or creating a character. So, from that point of view, it's a lot different from DD. As an avid gamer, I am giving myself time to get used to the new system before I make any passing judgments. Character creation is much more elaborate and frankly, I am having fun with it.

I save my level up games so I can create spells that I think would be good for the battles I will encounter and hope for the best. If the spell I created is too weak, I'm able to go back and change it without losing hours and hours of game play. So, it's like this when you gain a new level: You click on either create a new skill or click on one of the spells you already created. Every 5th level you are given 2 skillpoints - just like in DD.

So, that's your answer to how many spells there are. The answer is: Unlimited.

As for specializing, I'm not sure I understand what you want to know. There was no real 'specializing' in DD (if I remember correctly). I didn't become a "fire mage" or anything like that. The spell creation system is pretty fascile. Although I haven't found a way to make a sleeping spell - but please keep in mind -- I'm still in the beginning. Someone else may be able to answer this question for you better than I. But more to your concerns, the answer is I find this particular system more versatile than the one in DD. And frankly, there really is no comparing the two as they are vastly different. So, the lightning spell [or whatever kind of spell you create] you use in the beginning of the game can be easily increased in power to whack those monsters that pummel us into the ground later in the game.

As for Question #2: You can create as weak or as strong a spell as you want. I've stated a couple of places on this board that I like playing RPGs as a mage and the first thing I do in most cases is buy or create a good fire spell. So, I did that here in BD. It's at a level 2 right now, I can add points to it (and you can take them away, for a price) or leave it where it's at for however long I want. I can also make another fire spell at a level 3 and have both level 2 and level 3 in my arsenal which is much more versatile than the way it was set up in DD.

See, this whole character creation system is sooooooooo different from any other game I've played and trust me, I have just about every major RPG that's been on the market for over the past 10-15 years.

I hope this helps clarify some of the questions you've had about BD. Have you even tried the demo? And the demo doesn't even do the actual game justice. It's nowhere near on par or scale of what the actual game is like in terms of atmosphere, NPCs, music, items/weapons, etc. The demo only gives a tiny taste of what to expect, IMHO.

So there you have it! Hope this helped somewhat.


Faralas
Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 08/05/04 11:41 PM

Quote:

Fable, as I'm an adept on archer skills => what do you mean with "only using one kind of arrow"? The additional damagae due to proficiency? Ive only maxed out my archer in bow skill and she does quite some damage. If I'm missing something, please, explain. So far I'm content with enough splitting/explosive arrows and keeping her out of melee. Would it make my archer life easier? Strong enemies are stunned with hammer lvl 4 and then finished off with arrows.

No, I'm not making fun of you - but so far nearly all my RPG were either paladin or mage.
Kiya




I've found that with a couple of points in general bow accuracy and one in damage, my archer (when last seen) scored a hit one-third of the time, and did very little damage. How much damage are you doing, and by "maxed out," how many points did you put into bow skill? What's the damage on the weapon you're using, and what are your archer's stats?

I'm not trying to make fun of you, either. I'm just frustrated at how poorly my archer/mage has been performing, and am seriously considering putting the game aside until Larian balances skills better. However, if I'm not optimizing my archer/mage properly, then I'll be much happier, and will gladly continue playing (though I wish they'd fix lockpick, pickpocket, etc!).
Posted By: Thor_the_Almighty

Re: Please post impressions. - 12/05/04 08:10 PM

Quote:

I think the game is great. Im only on act 1 still though.
Im really looking forward to learning more about the Imps.

I think the voice actor for the death knight is mediocre at best. I like it more than the old voice though by a large margin i dun care what anyone says ;o) The problem in both of these actors, assumedly different, is that they are not acting the lines, just reading them all in the same voice.
The author of the dialouge of the death knight gave it lots of different emotions it was relating. Its not always angry or bored. Anyhow the voice actor doesnt do it justice that just the final word. But no big deal...

Some of what I think are new voices for the imp character s are very good though and funny, they sound like east-Indians.

Im addicted I cant wait til i have time to play tommorow.


PS starforce 3 was a good investment( recalling a developer diary I read here on this forum about the copy protection). I cant copy it even though my program says it copys it.... so I hope my disc doesnt scratch


you will hate it later if your like me beacsue you will still be in act 1 2 million years later.....bloody great fun.....yay. also i cant be arsed with patches because it involves effort for a poor excuse of a game.
Posted By: pb9494

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 10:54 AM

Great Gameplay, graphics and sound,
but TOO MANY BUGS !!!
Really, the fun you should have from playing this game drops to zero
because of the bugs.
I really hope upcoming patches improve this.
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 11:11 AM

Fable, I will post the damage my archer makes this night (am at work). As for fixing lockpick => I'm sure this will be done.

About fixing pickpocket => NOOO, it's fine as it is! I have lvl 3 and can pinch 3x high leveled stuff. I only go for money and my splitting arrows - and if I find a nice charm. I like it the way it is.

In earlier versions (1.0/1.1) I could even steal quest items and keys - but this was "fixed" <sniff>. I didn't need to kill floogie for the stupid football - now I have to, if I want to fulfill the quest - so, in later versions I refrained from doing this quest. I could enter a locked room in Act 3 by stealing the key - now I can't. No clue, how to get that either. In earlier versions I could right click on an item - use "give to" and get what I wanted. I only needed lvl 1 for this - now I have to use more precious skill pts. Yes, it was overpowered - I agree - but it was fun! And no one was forced to use it. I could even steal money from monsters. Please, don't propagate a fix to make it more difficult to steal (if I understood you correctly).

What might be a fix for you - is spoiling fun for a cleptomaniac as me

Really, is it a game for upright paladins only? Not for me - it's a world at war in Nemisis - and I would like to thieve my through.

Ah, well, I can if these "fixes" continue, I can simply re-install my German version and play it with 1.1 (kept all patch versions) - ok, I have no large BF trader items respawn or all these high skills, changing every act - so what? I could not steal large amounts of money or wade in potions - so what? I could enter the BF to trade at any time, I did not have these crashes - ok, I have no pyramids in Act 3, so what? I didn't miss them at that time. AND: I have my inventory as it was - the way I liked it. Yes, there were monsters missing in some BF end levels - so what? And quests turned blue again there => so what? They get erased anyway by moving on. And about the missing luck boost for the mushroom in Act 2? Bah, didn't need it. Yes, I had a plot stopper and had to take care to keep linear order => no prob for me. I know how to do it. And at that time, I had the holy water to make unlimited potions at a reasonable stats change, not overpowered. Had to gather plants very patiently for this.
Kiya
Posted By: Deon_du_Plessis

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 12:28 PM

My saintly patience has just evaporated after reading all these posts about how versatile the game truly is... dammit! I even re-installed the demo yesterday in desperation for a taste of the real thing, but it was like drinking Diet Coke... nice, but ultimately unsatisfying.

The strong impression I get from the hardcore players (Kiya in particular) is that while the skill system might seem a little strange at first, it is in fact very flexible and will allow me to experiment to my heart's content, and my character's strengths and weaknesses will become more pronounced depending on what I choose.

It also seems to me that it is the gamers who want instant gratification that are getting fed up with BD. I await the chance to find out for myself what all the fuss is about with bated breath... although at this rate I am going to die LONG before I get my copy... . Ah well, c'est la vie.

C'mon, CNA, hurry up!!
Posted By: fable

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 12:52 PM

Quote:

The strong impression I get from the hardcore players (Kiya in particular) is that while the skill system might seem a little strange at first, it is in fact very flexible and will allow me to experiment to my heart's content, and my character's strengths and weaknesses will become more pronounced depending on what I choose.




I can't speak for Kiya, but as for myself (and at least some others): yes, the skill system is potentially quite flexible. No, it is not currently balanced, and rather inflexible, especially in Act I. It also lacks enough skill points to allow the player to experiment properly with different character configurations. I've suggested before that one possible remedy for this is to de-link skill points-per-level from monster hit points, and make them separate options before game start. As skill points are a major concern of the player base, I suspect Larian will look at this. They're certainly receptive to suggestions.

Good luck with getting a copy! The game is playable in its current state, but there remain some bugs (amazingly heavy amulets, no lockpicking, manically over-active pickpocketing, people stuck in the Battlefields) and quite a few balance issues to address. What's selling the product now is the game's vision. Its ability to deliver still lags.


Posted By: velthuijsen

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 01:08 PM

DDP that is a fair description of the game.
I myself can't understand why people are complaining about a lack of skill points. Or that a lot of skills are thrash or even worthless.

Skills are bonusses ontop of your general abilities.
I mean in my current run I have tow points in an offensive ability (1 fire dart 1 heal), the rest are in skills that most other people would consider worthless (except Lockpick that one is just broken), like luck, wisdom, embellish. Why? Because I can
And because I don't have |_| |3 3 R combat skills I actually need to think a bit before taking out a high level mob or a group of mobs. That is instead of just rushing into the fight and then just get bloated on potions when it is a tad tougher then expected.

But I know the game mechanics so I don't get stuck with a truly unworkable character (or group of characters).
Still learning how the game works isn't that much of a chore (except trying to stuff a mushroom into any avaible bottle)
Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 13/05/04 01:28 PM

Quote:

My saintly patience has just evaporated after reading all these posts about how versatile the game truly is... dammit! I even re-installed the demo yesterday in desperation for a taste of the real thing, but it was like drinking Diet Coke... nice, but ultimately unsatisfying.

The strong impression I get from the hardcore players (Kiya in particular) is that while the skill system might seem a little strange at first, it is in fact very flexible and will allow me to experiment to my heart's content, and my character's strengths and weaknesses will become more pronounced depending on what I choose.

It also seems to me that it is the gamers who want instant gratification that are getting fed up with BD. I await the chance to find out for myself what all the fuss is about with bated breath... although at this rate I am going to die LONG before I get my copy... . Ah well, c'est la vie.

C'mon, CNA, hurry up!!





*Faralas massages Deon's forehead at the temples* There, there my friendly gamer. Take a deep breath and hold it! One..., two..., three... and exhale.

Repeat 4 more times.

Now, isn't that much better?


(ROFL)


I can just imagine your frustration, Deon. But don't despair! You'll be clicking away, monster mangling and quest solving soon enough.

I think the disparate nature of the opinions on this board reflects the game's diversity. Larian created a terrific game that draws two distinctly different types of gamers: Those who enjoy action RPGs and those who enjoy quest-driven, puzzle-solving RPGs. There are very few games on the market that attract two different types of gamers. And it seems everyone likes and/or dislikes certain aspects of the game depending upon which category they fall into.

I'm not a huge hack 'n slash gamer, but that doesn't mean I won't buy a game because portions of it are all action. Although, I cannot play Diablo for long periods of time, I still like the game. (Probably has to do with my failing eye-hand coordination. I'm oooolllllddddd - LOL).

I'm looking forward to reading your impressions after you've had a chance to play the game. So, don't forget to come up for air at least once to let us know how you like the game.



Faralas


Posted By: Deon_du_Plessis

Re: Please post impressions. - 22/05/04 07:40 PM

I haven't checked this thread since a few weeks back, and was pleasantly surprised to find that the last post contained a quote from an earlier rant of mine... nice! Kinda makes this forum feel more homey, y'know?

Anyway, on to my impressions. I have been playing as solidly as I can since I got the game on Thursday (the 20th), and I must say that after having climbed out of bed at 6:30am this morning and playing all day, I am well impressed. From the posts I had been reading until just before I bought the game, I was quite sure I was going to have somewhat of an unfocused, unbalanced mishmash of a game that tried to please everyone and ended up pleasing no-one. Well guess what? Those impressions were HORRIBLY wrong! They were all completely and totally unrepresentative of the full game, because I have been playing for over 12 straight hours today and I have loved every minute.

Every minute! Even the minutes that were spent re-loading because I died from some trap or another despite having full health, even the minutes when I had to close the whole program when I died (I pressed the Load Game shortcut key shortly after the fatal blow was delivered and that somehow froze the game to the point where I couldn't even press Esc to go back to the main menu). Believe it, this game has hooked me like no other this year, EVEN FAR CRY!

Yeah, okay, so maybe I am exactly the type of gamer that Larian was targeting, and maybe I am really patient and not against reading manuals, trying things out, checking the forum for answers, and maybe the timing was just right since I have been playing with v1.44 installed from the beginning. Maybe all those things have conspired to give me the huge amount of enjoyment and satisfaction that I've had today, or maybe, just maybe Larian made fewer mistakes in game design choices and interface implementation than has been implied in the many dissatisfied posts I've read over the past 4 weeks.

Truly, this game kicks mountains of [nocando]! It is EXACTLY what I have been wanting in Divine Divinity's followup. I don't care that the graphics aren't completely 3D (in fact I prefer total 2D to the 2D/3D hybrid that BD is), I don't care that it is not a new game engine, and I REALLY don't care that this game is not going to be considered "cutting edge" anything by anyone that hasn't been living in a cave for the last 20 years. This game has heart and soul that just about every other game I've played lately just hasn't had. It is obvious in every facet of the game how much Larian loved putting Beyond Divinity together, and that makes a damn strong impression on me as the gamer that their efforts were ultimately directed at.

Granted, I am only at the Imp village, but in the 16+ hours it has taken me to get there, I have had so much fun that the hours have just flown by. The skill system isn't as awkward as I had feared it would be, and unlearning skills is not a major drain on my finances and neither have I needed to unlearn many of them. Monsters haven't been overly difficult to beat (I am playing on Tactical) and I am enjoying putting a lot of consideration into my character's develiopment and trying out various configurations until I find the one I like the most. There are SO MANY options in this game that I am going to play it over and over and over again, guaranteed! Don't want to fight? So sneak. Don't want to sneak? Then draw steel and gut some evildoers! Charging your enemies with your head down with no consideration for tactics not working? So change your tactics.

I think my point here is there is definitely more than one way to get to your goal in BD, and having that choice is making all the difference in the world. It means the developers respect me enough to give me the options and then leave it entirely up to me how I want to put them to use. As Swen said in the manual, sure they made some questionable design decisions, but it has been Larian's experience that gamers adapt very easily and they eventually come to see the benefits of having the game laid out the way it is, and that is proving to be very true, at least in my case.

About the only thing I can't get my mind around is how on earth Kiya got through the citadel without visiting the Battlefields. I won't say I am struggling, but even with my level 12 characters I sometimes come close to dying in combat, despite the ridiculous damage my DK can dish out. I have gained at least 5 levels by fighting in the battlefields, and find it hard to imagine people getting through it all with only level 7 (or whatever) characters. But there again, that is how versatile the game is, that someone at a relatively low level can make it through.

Wow, Larian, I am truly, truly impressed. BD has far surpassed my expectations, and I am going to be playing it for a LONG time to come. Thank you from the bottom of my gaming heart!!

Right, now it's back to the game... catch you on the flip side!
Posted By: LewsTherinKinslayer13

Re: Please post impressions. - 22/05/04 07:52 PM




Quote:

in fact I prefer total 2D to the 2D/3D hybrid that BD is


I liked total 2D alot better then this too...
Posted By: Raze

Re: Please post impressions. - 22/05/04 10:20 PM

Quote:

I had to close the whole program when I died (I pressed the Load Game shortcut key shortly after the fatal blow was delivered and that somehow froze the game to the point where I couldn't even press Esc to go back to the main menu).



That happened to me once, but I could quickload then open the load pane or go to the main menu.
Posted By: Grim

Re: Please post impressions. - 22/05/04 10:46 PM

Quote:

About the only thing I can't get my mind around is how on earth Kiya got through the citadel without visiting the Battlefields.





She has a secret:

Spoiler : She knows most of the monsters personally and she brings them cookies.


btw: great post

Posted By: Faralas

Re: Please post impressions. - 23/05/04 12:06 AM

Quote:

Truly, this game kicks mountains of [nocando]! It is EXACTLY what I have been wanting in Divine Divinity's followup. I don't care that the graphics aren't completely 3D (in fact I prefer total 2D to the 2D/3D hybrid that BD is), I don't care that it is not a new game engine, and I REALLY don't care that this game is not going to be considered "cutting edge" anything by anyone that hasn't been living in a cave for the last 20 years. This game has heart and soul that just about every other game I've played lately just hasn't had. It is obvious in every facet of the game how much Larian loved putting Beyond Divinity together, and that makes a damn strong impression on me as the gamer that their efforts were ultimately directed at.




Excellent post, Deon and I agree with all of your impressions and opinions. I have been glued to BD ever since I installed it although it took me a lot longer to get to the imp village than you. But that's because I'm the kind of gamer that restarts new games several times before I understand some of its features. The skillpoints really threw me off on my first run-through and I bungled it so much that starting over felt better than deleting and reusing the skillpoints I had already accumulated. Plus, I had missed some crucial areas in the beginning of the game because I was racing through the different areas just to get to the next place.

You're right, changing tactics is what it's all about if you want to get the 'full taste' of BD. There is more than one way to get through a scene and the ability to make choices in games is what hooks me the most. There are a lot of choices one can make in the BD universe.

Anyway, you've been able to give voice to my thoughts and feelings about BD. And it does have it's own charm -- that Larian touch that distinguishes their work from the rest of the crowd. Thanks for sharing your impressions. Excellent post!


Faralas


Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 23/05/04 12:38 AM

Deon, I'm soooo relieved, you like the game. And who says, I didn't die in the Citadel without leveling up in the BF? I did - so what? I reloaded ...

This time I'm playing on tactical - nope, not by choice, by false clicking and not noticing - found it out in Act 3, wondering why I died all the time. Got my old Earth Elemental trauma again - and now I'm in Act 4 as a puny lvl 25er and wondering how I will survive the end.

Morituri the salutant, Deon
Kiya <RIP>
Posted By: Deon_du_Plessis

Re: Please post impressions. - 23/05/04 08:21 AM

Hi Kiya,

You must have died a LOT... What level were you when you made it to Act II?
Posted By: kiya

Re: Please post impressions. - 23/05/04 10:15 AM

Lvl 11 at Act 2 (nearly all in blue)
Lvl 18 at Act 3 (nearly all in black)
lvl 25 at the beginning of Act 4. (in silver) - I wish I could find other leggings though, they're leather - very good, but I'm dreaming of an uber-super shadow armour. I like her in those clothes.

with not ONE kill in the BF. All levels were made by XP from quests (and I know all very well) and killing the enemies there. I skipped the ghost and one gargoyle in Act 1. Didn't want to waste all my potions. I take the skills in exactly the same order as I know from old versions - with all restrictions. So, none from the BF traders. I have 2 holy water bowls and will only learn alchemy up to 4 for my end fights. And I'm careful with my charms. BF traders are only used for trading (and stealing). My pickpocket lvl is 4. Won't make that higher.

so => Shaman hammer only up to lvl 5 - bow only up to level 6. My DK is a 2-hander - this was always lvl 10.

So, in addition to playing a difficulty level I'm not accustomed to, I restrict myself even more. And now I don't mind the changes - I don't have to use them. Save one => I can't enjoy my riches in one inventory glance at once.
Kiya
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