Hello.

Been a good while since I've asked about this. Watching the video from the thread http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=365624#Post365624 at about the 3:30part it shows what made my heart sink into my gut. The main character jumps like Sonic the Hedgehog. I've found this horridly annoying in many new games and haven't bought them due to this.

Is this going to be removed? Or does this only happen when the main character jumps off a cliff to turn into the dragon or something like that?

Its probably too late to be removed.
I think you can jump like that anywhere.
As the character is very agile.

To be honest It doesn't really bother me.

This has led me to the suspicion that everyone believes now that is a very, very fast game.

I don't think you have to jump all the time. It's just a lot easier to get from A to B in a straight line by jumping over the obstacles. And I guess that when it is the third time you run through an area, you don't care much for taking the longer scenic route anymore

You haven't played WoW, eh?

Oh and seriously, this Sonic-jump is ridiculous. OK, he is agile but come on, no one jumps like that in a 20+ kg suit.

Personally I'm not a fan of jumping in these kinds of games, and don't miss it except when I have to walk all the way around a 5 inch high fence (as in the Witcher).

The sonic jump is dumb, but it's only cosmetic. I'm more worried about the necessity of jumping in exploring the game world and to succeed in combat.

When this originally came up Lar said he would at least consider the issue. Even if they didn't make any changes, I think this would be something I could easily get used to after playing a bit, and just ignore it. The somersault looks fine as part of a jumping attack, IMO.

I have no problem with being able to jump, lol. If anything, I think it will serve to improve your agility in combat. Besides, it is not like you are going to just be jumping unless you need to anyway. So what if he flips when he jumps? It is not going to take away from the game. It is still a full fledged RPG. Some action game like elements will only make it more fun in my opinion.

+1 for creative new reason why not to buy a game.

The way it works now is that in the beginning of the game you have a regular jump and later(as you progress to becoming a dragon knight), your jumping abilities become much more agile.

PERFECT!

Is this automatic (there's only one "jump" available at all times) or do you have a choice of jumping forms later on (i.e. you set the type of jump you want to use)? Is it just the look of the jump that changes or does the new agility add new ability (jump higher, faster, further, etc)?

this is ridiculous!
if you dont like the jump, then dont jump...
how simple is that?

It's too simple. With that logic, if you didn't like some combat animation, you shouldn't fight at all?

In a CRPG, atmosphere matters a lot for many people, and in my eyes, doing somersaults with plate armour and a two-hander strapped on your back can kill the atmosphere. Yes, there is magic in the world of Rivellon, but the somersaults apparently don't require or consume any magical energy. Since I haven't played the game yet, I can't tell for sure - however, it might feel like you're not playing a hero anymore, but a super-hero without a cape who is out of place in this fantasy world.

I'd like to switch off the somersaults if that's possible. But if it's not, I wouldn't want to run around for minutes to avoid a somersault jump, either.

It's a magical fantasy world in a video game for crying out loud. You know, a world where you can experience things that simply are not possible in real life? Are you really going to nit pick about armor being to heavy to jump in because it goes against the laws of physics in real life? Maybe it is just me, but something so trivial certainly is not going to take away from my immersion in this grand world they have obviously worked so hard to bring to us. I suppose to each their own, though.

Totally agreeing with you Ironcreed

The mere existence of magic in a fantasy world doesn't mean everyone is able to do everything effortlessly. And especially because Larian has presumably put a lot of effort into creating a believable, detailed world, they should also pay attention to details like this one.

Even if we assume that by becoming a dragon knight, the well-trained human character gains superhuman strength and agility that he/she can use without spending mana, why should he/she want to brag about his/her superhuman abilities with each and every jump? With a rogue-like approach to your character and when often relying on stealth, staying undetected or unnoticed, the show-style jumping is especially silly.

So yes, it's a detail, but no, it's not trivial.

What is or is not trivial is in the eye of the beholder, friend. I imagine most who are anticipating this game will spend far more time enjoying the game itself, focusing on the overall positives as a whole. While others will spend more time scrutinizing every detail of the game, thereby limiting their enjoyment thereof.

Not every gamer has to have every fine little detail fined tuned to be an exact replica of physics as they apply in the real world. Most just want to play an enjoyable, memorable game. Again, though, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, as are the rest of us who will spend more time playing the game rather than trying to pick apart what ever faults it may or may not have.

Wow didn't expect any replies to this.

Iron, there needs to be a level of believability in all things. If someone with 20kg of armor can jump and do a flip, how much higher and farther would he be able to jump if he just jumped? Though as for jumping in itself, it can be fun to do jump attacks on enemies and to get over obstacles.

It's more of a cliche thing, everyone has the main hero trying to jump like Sonic the Hedgehog. Not that I'm bashing Sonic, just let the jump flips for Sonic to do, and Dragon Ball Z characters to do where reality doesn't exist at all. I love Larian games because of this reality factor in "yeh that can be possible" and npc's seem to be real with their own life story. Jumping like Sonic will severely degrade this Atmosphere for me, an atmosphere Larian worked hard to create since DD. There is a reason why I've check this place since 2005 on this game, usually I lose interest after a few months or no news.

Now as it being more of a progressive thing like Lar said, it won't be nearly as bad for my experience with the game. Having to unlock the feature as you gain strength and power, especially when you gain the power to transform into a Dragon. I'm hoping Dragon Morphing is a painful experience at least the first time, like it was for Link turning into a wolf in Zelda: Twilight Princess. Imagine the bones growing and twisting and wings smashing threw you back and the tail which would be a real pain in the... um.. yeh. Anyway.

Other realities that I'm overlooking (it would really drag out the game if they were not there)
Able to carry a ton of crap in Divinity 1 (too much running around work)
Able to defeat a ton of monsters pounding on you (be too sniper like working on 1 at a time)
Always able to run. (the game would probably take 2x as long to play threw and you'd get bored)
Morphing into a Dragon (this is exciting actually, and was a skill in DD to transform)
Healing from one nights rest. (I wish I had this ability, takes me a good 2 weeks to recover from running a marathon )

Oh, I understand the perspective you are coming from regarding the jumping with armor not being realistic. As I always tend to view something from another's point of view when I disagree. I just suppose that I am not nit-picky enough to let something like that take away from the overall atmosphere of a game world that is fantastical in the first place. I usually just get so immersed in the story of an RPG, something like the armor being to heavy to jump in does not even cross my mind.

All this being said, though, everyone is indeed different. I can only speak for myself. All I was trying to stress in my previous post is that what is trivial or not trivial is simply in the eye of the beholder and what may be a critical issue for some, will not even be a passing thought for others. Though that is common sense, yes?

Anyway, I think we are all looking forward to the game itself. In the end, that is what matters here.

This reminds me of a lot of games in which you can swim while wearing plate armor. I never saw anyone say it ruined the game though. Like Ironcreed, I think it best to ignore little details like this if you don't like them. It'll hurt your experience with the game even more if all you do is think about it.

In Dungeon Master, I think I've read, one even gets a few health points decreased just by bumbing into a wall.
Or into other objects.

Now THAT was focusing on detail !

If you just "focus on the overall positives", you might be able to enjoy even bad games, as almost every game will have a few positive points. Not that I'm expecting to be a bad game, but a game should also have as few negative points as possible. And paying attention to details can actually add to the game experience, though you are certainly entitled to your own style of playing.



No-one has suggested "to have every fine little detail fined tuned to be an exact replica of physics as they apply in the real world". And "the rest of us" may not be as many as you seem to believe, since both in this thread and in another one (starting here), several people have voiced their concerns with the somersault jumps.



I don't know whether this is a major or a minor detail, as I haven't played the game, but in the Leipzig Games Convention video, jumping seemed to be important in order to quickly get from A to B. And I will find it hard to ignore that my character is constantly doing somersaults when simple jumps would have been more effective and less dangerous, with a far higher chance to go unnoticed.

Details like this one also play a part in the visual style of a game, and in my eyes those somersaults better fit to other genres.

I agree. One could try very, very hard to "bad-mouth" something. Just pretend to be blind towards the positive sides. Just pretend they just aren't there. None at all.

I think this is just the result of bitterness, bad experiences, or whatever. I can try very hard and say that Drakensang is a totally buggy game, that is just a point of how hard I try it so.

Me, I'm buying games I want to enjoy.

Therefore I lower my expectations.

I have often fared very well with that kind of attitude. Often I could even enjoy a mediocre game, just by focusing myself in the positive points that were important to me.

I have sometimes the feeling that the younger generations are demanding too mnuch.

"Give me *everything* now, in best condition, with the lowest price and hand it over to me NOW ! Or I'll cry out and tell everyone how bad you and your product are !"

In principle, this is nothing but blackmail.

Think about it. Maybe in 20 years you'll see things different. If you can wait until then. And maybe you'll see then, how the attitudes and the bahaviour of many gamers have just BEEEPED up the whole gaming industry.

This is what I believe right now.

Hehe, this is giving me some ideas...

We are all whinning about this jump but when the game comes out I bet that I won't stop jumping just to see this somersault in action...

I agree with you that the more detail the better the experience, as that is a given. I was merely implying that I think most who are anticipating this game will be satisified if the overall package itself is solid and will not let details such as being able to do agile jumps in heavy armor detract from their experience with the game. I mean, if you use that logic you might as well keep on going and complain that you are able to turn into a dragon or perform magic. Afterall, how realistic is that? Far more unrealistic than being able to jump in armor, that's for sure, lol.

In regards to my statement in which I said, "the rest of us will enjoy the game", all I was referring to is the rest of us who do not let such intricate details dampen the overall experience. Which in my opinion will be most. As I think most just want an enjoyable, overall solid game.

However, I will say yet again, I am just speaking for myself here, as we all are. But, I do know that not everyone share these same concerns and those will agree that nit picking over such matters is indeed trival. Just because it may be so for you and a few others here, it does not mean that it will be a bad mark on the game for everyone else. That's all I'm saying. In that sense, it is all in the eye of the beholder.

Anyway, I hope you enjoy the game. I hope we all do, as it looks very promising.

Well, in Divinity I you could attack relentlessly without ever needing to stop :P

I actually agree with you on that point, although my opinion might change once I play the game. I still think it's just details though, as with almost everything graphical. They make the experience much better but they are not essential for incredible gameplay. I simply believe that if you don't like a simple detail as the jumping animation, it would be sad that you miss what could potentially be a great game overall because of it. The somersault will not make the dialogues bad, or the story stupid.

One thing I love with the latest Zelda games is Link having his sword swings blocked and able to really block enemy attacks with his shield.

That game didn't have the mechanics to work in such a manner. And with this game so close to release, that it if isn't in there now, I doubt it will be in it at all. Though games where it doesn't have it in there are still usually quite fun.

Changing into a dragon is impossible. Dragons themselves were believed not to exist until one was found frozen in a cave. Cool documentary that aired on the discovery channel, think it's called dragons if you'd look it up. Few knights were even found killed by fire in the cave.

With the existing story line, at least 100 years ago there was a magic skill and items to transform you or monsters into another creature. Basically that carries over and it seems to change the human form itself once you become a Dragon.

As for games with poor reviews. One that I've enjoyed alot was Castlevania 64. The main character couldn't swim, armor too heavy. He jumped pretty high, but didn't do flips. And an effective attack, which I'm sure to attempt in this game, was to jump and slash at the enemies. They usually attacked as if the main character was on the ground. Of course I'd get to the monster without sustaining any damage upon a successful attack. That is another reason why I don't want to see the main character act like a blue hedgehog for Dragon Ball Z wanna-be ninja.

This is how I plan to attack some monsters, especially when they are giants. In some of these games where the main character takes the wanna-be role of Sonic the Hedgehog, they cannot attack while jump somersaulting. Do a flip and slammed by an enemy instead of just jumping like a normal human being and cutting the opponents head off (or jamming the sword down his/her throat, what ever works best).

I find War hammers most fun with this method of attack.

^ I think you're 'jumping' to conclusions (excuse the bad humor) and you might just be pleasantly surprised when the game comes out.

Possibly, I have played enough games to make me absolutely hate the "Sonic jumping" more than I hate bad lag on an online game.

that mean you played WoW?