Larian Studios

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas!

Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 30/09/15 09:12 PM

Hey everyone!

I'm really surprised that this reached 2mil, and very excited! Recently Sword Coast Legends had a "Head Start" release where their DM Mode was available, and I was admittedly disappointed. Divinity's DM Mode will be well-timed and, hopefully, a great alternative to a limited system like SCL's.

Maybe some devs will post a thread later for ideas (as they did for mods), but it'd be great to brainstorm together here for our DM-mode expectations. n-Space has been facing significant backlash from their community because the community's anticipation did not match the product that was released. If we start dreaming now, I believe we can prevent the same type of calamity from happening here!

So, what would your dream DM-mode look like?

For myself, perhaps the 'picture' I see when imagining a DM mode is taking a total conversion mod (such as creating the Zelda universe) and plopping my players into that world with a great story that I've preplanned.

A few features I'd love:

1) Creating custom items that I either drop in chests, on enemies or...

2) On scripted events. DM-mode should 'play nice' with the editor. It'd be great if a module-designer could create a script function that a DM could apply on the fly.

To explain, let's use Zelda as an example. Link is in the Temple of Time, ready to pick up the sword. I, as the DM, don't want a player to be able to do this until I say so. A mod-designer COULD hard-code that 'x' conditions must be met for this sword to be picked up. BUT, preferably, he/she will implement a function whose conditions a DM sets. EG:

Code:
function isDestined () {
    if (!activeDM) {
        // some code if the mod is run without a DM 
    } else {
        return getIfDMConditions(target)   // some complex code (defined generically elsewhere) with flexible properties that allows a DM to set conditions
    }
}


If you were able to implement a way for a modder to do this within the UI, that'd be great. Even with that, though, this form of scripting should still be available so we can get deep and create unique systems! Which brings me to my final point...

3) Extensibility. Even as awesome a DM mode as Larian is surely to create, it can't cover every contingency. It'd be optimal for DM mode itself to be moddable. To add plug-ins to DM mode to allow extended or fine-tuned functionality would cut down on production costs for the Larian team (to a certain degree) AND allow us to make some really great stuff!


Anyone else want to dream with me? What's your ideal DM mode?
Posted By: dblade

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 12:41 AM

Well I hope Larian has an open discussion on what kind of scope would be reasonable before setting things in stone.

http://larian.uservoice.com/forums/31476...dicated-servers
Posted By: Baardvark

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 02:33 AM

Agree with all three points, and the second is especially important. A GM needs to be able to override or activate scripts in an intuitive way, and hopefully it isn't gobs of work to manually implement the lines in the editor. Some way to automagically produce the code that lets the GM set flags, change variables, etc.

Also, letting four players control characters with a 5th GMing would be nice, instead of bumping out a player slot for the GM. I can understand if there's technical limitations, though I recall them saying they could run eightish players without too many problems, maybe a tad unstable. It's hard to imagine how four players would work fine, and then five would suddenly break the engine, though of course there will always be a certain threshold to break the engine.
Posted By: norD

- D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 02:39 AM

Allright people, like the Mod support topic, I'll gather information on what you would like to see for the GM mode.

Remember that nothing that I will compile here as 100% change to happen but ideas and suggestion, as you all know, are really important to us at Larian.

So feel free to propose cool ideas here!

-- SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS -

- Moddable GM mode
- GM playing monsters
- Player dedicated servers
- GMind the main game
- Add/Remove enemies, traps and such
- Permadeath/new character option
- Multiple GMs
- Dedicated server for persistent modules
- Connection to a database
- Chat channels
- Needs to be 100% stable
- On the fly conversations
- Release "when it's done" over delaying the game with it
- Queue events together or with a timer
- Player become GM and vice-versa
- Procedural generation
- Sessions replay
- Preplan and save an area
- Random Encounter chart for the GM
- Adding personal quest linked to the main campaign
- Hiding player stats from the GM
- A dialogue tool for GM
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 02:55 AM

In order of importance:

1. Be able to DM the main game.
2. Move around the map at will.
3. Be able to take control of any baddie and play along.
4. To be able to add/remove any baddie, trap or loot.
5. Be able to place various NPC types.

I'm not really sure making quests live and/or changing dialog in conversation live really works out.

I know that other game is trying to make the DM a part of the game balance by costing them points to do this or that with a limited pool. Maybe cool, but perhaps not necessary. I guess I would look at it this way, we rather not have a pool and if you play with people you trust probably all good. Random groups... that is where we could see some lousy DM'ing without limits.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 04:40 AM

I am already skeptical that the GM mode won't become another day/night cycle which gets cut for being a lot more work than anticipated. But I am really skeptical about the idea of being able to "construct levels on the fly".

Even if it's possible, I'm not sure that would be fun to play. D:OS levels and rooms have lots of details and items placed. After you add your new empty room, what will the players be doing while the GM is spending 5-10 minutes adding in all the stuff to it? (Per room!)
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 07:11 AM

I don't think so. At the very least a mode to just control the enemy unites instead would be a pretty fun way to play through the game. Might shake up things quite a bit to quest against a human mind instead of an AI.
Posted By: SnappyDragon1

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 07:38 AM

I like the idea of the DM playing the monster if he/she wants to.

Adapting to the player's decisions is important so an intuitive system is needed to create situations as the need for them arises.

There should be limits, no one likes fighting an endless horde of enemies every few steps, but at the same time encounters shouldn't be too easy because of a small resource pool.

Permadeath/new character option( My DM does this if we mess around too much.)

Personally I prefer playing the character, but I convinced my DM to buy the game at release, I am really excited about this mode.
Posted By: Cromcrom

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 07:39 AM

I definitely second Stabbey. However, Stabbey, if you ever had a shot at NWN2 toolset, you would have a clear idea of how things could work, and worked amazingly well at that time (9 years ago now ?), both as Permanent worlds and DM directed campaigns, dungeon crawls, one shot stories...
Just another fantasy stretch goal to have people pledge. If it ever makes it in a decent shape (not "the same tool the devs used to create the game, so you have to be a dev to use it properly...", or whatever, you know...), then just make it like NWN2 toolset and system.
But Larian won't make it in a decent and usable state, because to build something like that, you have to think FIRST to create a toolset, and THEN, make something out of it. NOT create something with some tools, and then try to turn theses tools into a toolset, which is what seems to be going on now.
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 11:06 AM

I've preposed multiple GMs in game master mode. Check out my idea, and vote if you like it: https://larian.uservoice.com/forums/3147...ame-master-mode
Posted By: Palledorous

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 11:20 AM

GM tools definitely shouldn't be limited to curb difficulty for players of the user generated campaign. Why handicap creativity in a co-operative role-playing environment? Fun and fairness can be decided by roleplaying groups just as in a tabletop experience. It's much more important that any features provided in the toolset be allowed to flourish in the hands of a creative gm
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 11:32 AM

Hello everyone, i'm a RP player from the Nwn2 community. I and many friends are very excited by the GM mode and backed the game for it. I will try to explain what we hope for.

Before beginning, a little TD;LR version: The same functionality than NWN2 but more oriented toward persistent modules.

I will try to be concise and only describe the most important system that we hope be available for us and the bonus features, nice but not critical.

- Dedicated server for persistent modules with monitoring tools (number of players).
Bonus: Resources monitoring by scripts, zones ect.. It could be nice to see which script or which zone is killing our performances.

- Connection to a database: For persistence, it should be nice to have the ability to connect to a database. In nwn such system doesn't exist but his essential to persistent modules. Database access are made by reading the server memory for detecting query and writing the server memory for the result. It could be nice to don't have to do that in D:OS2!

- No third party account : Nwn was based on gamespy for log-in into a lobby room where to choose the available servers. And now gamespy is down and we have a tool injecting stuff into the memory for making the lobby work with duck-tape. The most important thing is the continuation of modules, even if the third party managing online stuff is down. Robustness in front of that is better than a server list. Even if there is only a "join by ip" option with a favorite list, there will always be a community maintened list of servers.

- Player character in server side.: For games with friend, it's ok to use a client side character. But on persistent modules, other player may cheat of bypass server rules by using a client side character.

- Security of server side characters: With the assumption of no 3th party account, it must be a way to let a character accessible only to his owner. In nwn2, with the 3th party down, there is a custom script tracking the cd-key of account. If the cd-key is different, the player is kicked. A way to handle that could be the use of a certificate, unique for each installation of the game with high probability, and used by the server to make the right characters available to the player. Server owner must be able to assign a set of character to a different certificate in the case of a lost certificate and player must be able to import their previous certificate to a new installation of the game. Be able to select with which certificate (with different pseudo associated with) the connection to a server is made could be nice too (For dm wanting to keep their "classic player" account separate from their dm account).

- The number of players: Popular servers on nwn have roughly 50 players connected at the same time. 64 seem to be a good maximal size.

- The number of DM: DM should take a player slot but not be limited in number. For torturing many players, we need many DM ^^. DM access must also be restricted by the owner of the server with a DM password for a certificate DM list.

- The party: In persistent server, all players are not friends. So each player should be able to create party with different players in. Other player are neutral by default.
Bonus: Be able to customize the way of setting other players hostile. Ex: a player attacking me is hostile, a player attacking my party is hostile, the entire party of a player attacking my party is hostile, ect... And the ability to set back to neutral an hostile player.

- Chat channels: Server, Map, Local (listenable within a medium range, whisper (small range), Party, DM (thing written by player are only see-able by dm) and private message.

- Custom-ability of the UI and events: I will take in example the death. Some module want a permanent death. This death is only made by DM. When a player dies from a monster or other player, he can have the ability to re-spawn somewhere with a penalty or be taken by an other character to be moved to a safe place for a re-spawn with no penalty.
For doing that, we need to be able to intercept the "rezEvent" or the modify the "UI" to make the re-spawn unavailable if the pj is perma-dead. The moving of the corpse by a character is made by just moving the corpse to the feet of the carrying guy when he move too far after this guy selected the option "carry the target" in a custom UI. When the player select the rez option, the script check if he is in a safe zone and then rez it without penalty or tp it to a safe zone with a penalty. This example is here to illustrate the degree of custom-ability desired.


In nwn the modding community has made an amazing work. the community implemented database access, pet systems, guild systems and guild halls, housing, randomly generated dungeon an many other thing. The only thing we need to move our community on Divinity is just some help to be able to do the same thing (and more!) here without needing too much duck-tape.

With RP friend, we started yesterday to form a team for creating a persistent module. We are our-self programmer (for thing less sexy than games but still programmer ^^) and we were heavily involved in the french rp community of nwn1 and nwn2. So if you need a sort of community created feature list for custom servers (with only the necessary features, the rest can be created by the community), we will be happy to help :'D.

Our RP dreams are now totally in Divinity:OS2 . And we waited such a game for years without finding a potential substitute to NWN2. NWN is a great game but is far too unstable and need to much duck-tape. I really invite you to play a little in a NWN persistent module for finding inspirations.

Edit: Not sure if it's the right thread, you can move it to the other if it's more appropriated.
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Stabbey
I am already skeptical that the GM mode won't become another day/night cycle which gets cut for being a lot more work than anticipated. But I am really skeptical about the idea of being able to "construct levels on the fly".

Even if it's possible, I'm not sure that would be fun to play. D:OS levels and rooms have lots of details and items placed. After you add your new empty room, what will the players be doing while the GM is spending 5-10 minutes adding in all the stuff to it? (Per room!)

This feature is important for persistent servers. The world is already created but a DM must be able to make little temporary modification without needing to modify the map in the editor and without restarting the server. You must also consider that players RP between them, XP in automatic dungeon, and do their stuff even if DM are not connected. You are right for "campaign mode" where players are always with the DM.

Per example: Bad guys attacked an house and now stay in. The DM spawn some bad guys in the house when no player are here, moves the placeable to illustrate the fight in the house and then spawn a guy in the city looking for player help. You can do the same by modifying generic maps (inaccessible by the player without DM help) for a specific animation and then creating a portal to this map.

In persistent module, not all DM are allowed to modify the module, but only to create animations for the players on the fly. Only permanent modification to the world are made through the off-line editor.
Posted By: Grompie

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 12:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Caerbanog

- The number of players: Popular servers on nwn have roughly 50 players connected at the same time. 64 seem to be a good maximal size.

- The number of DM: DM should take a player slot but not be limited in number. For torturing many players, we need many DM ^^. DM access must also be restricted by the owner of the server with a DM password for a certificate DM list.


Not sure but I think they where more thinking of max 4 players and 1 DM. I dont think you want to see this game played by 5+ players. Every turn takes at at least 20 seconds and that is if players play fast. Multipy that by 5 and you already need to wait 2 minutes until a player can make a next move. this will scale up fast and make it boring for a lot of players.

Multiple DM's I'm not a big fan of either. A game can be ruined fast if 2 Dm's disagree with each other.

For the DM I would split up his turn in 2 parts. One is the fase where he can spend action points. All his minions and bosses ofc have a basic amount of action points but it's very low. When he gives them extra action points the minions can do more special attacks. Placing traps, activating special triggers, giving minions a potion this all costs action points and makes sure the DM isn't to powerful.

After this turn the DM can play all the minions that are in combat.

When the DM kills a player he should also get a reward like extra action points for the next turn. Or there could be other ways he could earn actions points like destroying a chest before players reach it.

At the start of the game there should be a limited amount the DM can choose of objects that he can use during the play. Limiting the DM power should make it entertaining for both sides and require a tactical approach.

Maybe I'm thinking this a bit to much in focus of combat but I feel the combat should be limited for the DM.

I'm not sure if I feel for the idea that DM's should be able to add scripts during the game. This feels more like something that should be done before the game starts. I think it would feel like cheating if the DM can do this.
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 01:26 PM

Originally Posted By: Grompie
Originally Posted By: Caerbanog

- The number of players: Popular servers on nwn have roughly 50 players connected at the same time. 64 seem to be a good maximal size.

- The number of DM: DM should take a player slot but not be limited in number. For torturing many players, we need many DM ^^. DM access must also be restricted by the owner of the server with a DM password for a certificate DM list.


Not sure but I think they where more thinking of max 4 players and 1 DM. I dont think you want to see this game played by 5+ players. Every turn takes at at least 20 seconds and that is if players play fast. Multipy that by 5 and you already need to wait 2 minutes until a player can make a next move. this will scale up fast and make it boring for a lot of players.

Multiple DM's I'm not a big fan of either. A game can be ruined fast if 2 Dm's disagree with each other.

For the DM I would split up his turn in 2 parts. One is the fase where he can spend action points. All his minions and bosses ofc have a basic amount of action points but it's very low. When he gives them extra action points the minions can do more special attacks. Placing traps, activating special triggers, giving minions a potion this all costs action points and makes sure the DM isn't to powerful.

After this turn the DM can play all the minions that are in combat.

When the DM kills a player he should also get a reward like extra action points for the next turn. Or there could be other ways he could earn actions points like destroying a chest before players reach it.

At the start of the game there should be a limited amount the DM can choose of objects that he can use during the play. Limiting the DM power should make it entertaining for both sides and require a tactical approach.


This is an interesting way to see the DM mode. For ourseft, we didn't saw the DM mode as "DM versus Players" but more as the "DM with unlimited powers is telling a story to a group of player". Multiple DM were just here to do different animation with different group of player or managing very big events.

The more problematic in your post is more the turn by turn thing. We are not very familiar with Divinity and i think we didn't even considerate that. If a pseudo real time mode like in nwn2 or pillar of eternity can't be implemented for the multiplayer, a large number of player can't happen. What would happen if a player enter in combat (and switch to turn by turn) and a player in an other map doesn't?

That is not nice and we can't really do something to bypass that without an huge modding of the game engine.

Without the ability to run persistent module, I don't know if it's really worth the time to do a complex DM mode. In nwn the only popular servers were the persistent ones, other with punctual campaigns were very uncommon and are now totally forgotten. Persistent module in an other side are still here and will be here for years until another game with the same ability come up.
Posted By: LordCrash

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 01:36 PM

Well, we actually know way too little about the GM mode to make a qualified opinion about it.

For once, how powerful is the whole thing meant to be? How much will we be able to "change on the fly"?

Will it be like Sword Coast Legends which means that there are premade dungeons/levels in which you can only place enemies and traps and doors as you like? Or will you also be able to change the whole level design on the fly?

I just hope that GM mode won't delay the main game too much. I'm all in for an easy-to-use and powerful editor and I'm not convinced that the "on the fly" GM stuff is acutally really necessary on top of that. I mean in traditional PnP campaigns the DM already prepared most of the adventure before the whole thing starts as well, which is already possible with a powerful editor for which you don't need programming skills. I don't know whether the ability to change things (whatever these things will be) justifies the additional tool developement and design process.

But maybe the whole thing is more meant as an "easy mode" for the editor?! I mean that as some kind of very -easy-to-use tool that is kind of limited in comparison to the real editor but with which you could do certain things (like predefined enemy placement) very easily. I guess that would be pretty much along the lines for what Bethesda planned for the new Doom (with the big difference of course that there will be a "big and mighty" editor for DOS on top of that). So there will maybe be an "easy mode editor/GM mode" for amateurs and an "expert mode editor" for people who really want to make traditional mods and whole new adventures and stuff. smile
Posted By: Kerrida

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 05:26 PM

First and foremost, with the GM Mode, whatever we are allowed to do, it has to be stable. I know Jeff was saying this very thing in that they will have to look at what can be done on the fly safely to keep from crashing the game and ruining people's experience. Traps, enemies, etc... should all be easy to place if they are already created and available as assets to the game. Creating them on the fly while people are in game? Mmm yeah no as you need to test the pieces before letting them hit. Granted, slight modifications to stats wouldn't be too bad.

Effectively I see the setup like this, GM Mode is there to help you bring a more active life to your mod/story. It's how to can react, to an extent, in response to the players. GM Mode is not for big sweeping changes because the players did something you did not expect. If all you want to do is play the random antagonist to the players, this will be great by itself. Especially if you can take control of the mobs themselves. Effectively I see this as a tool to interact with what's already there and spawn in new items/creatures/traps that were either part of the game, or created by you (or someone else) in the mod tools. For dialogue.. mm.. that one is tricky. Setting up dialogue boxes and choices on the fly is not the best really... but I could see allowing GMs and players to 'say' things and it appear in a bubble or even just the info window. This would allow easy on the fly conversations between NPCs and PCs.

However, the Divinity Engine (Mod Tools) is where we build our new areas and assemble our own stories to tell. We lay our foundations and planned encounters here as well as anything that we need customized. Yes it will take time and be some rather involved work. Here I'd really like to see us be given a huge berth on what's possible to manipulate about the game. Assuming the game's logic, skills, and mechanics and such are all using a scripting language this should be fairly simple to allow... basically a "edit at your own risk" type of thing since you'll need to have a good understanding to make such deep mods. While work is going to be done to make this user friendly and easier to use by non-devs, it will still remain that it will take dedicated people to push what can be done to its limits.

I'm fully excited about to possibilities coming by using both tools. However, I will admit, I'd rather see GM Mode not be released with the game as both the enhanced mod tools and GM Mode are going to take a lot of work. I'd much rather see their release come after the game itself rather than delaying the release of the game until the tools were ready as well.
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 07:55 PM

@Kerrida - I completely agree that they should focus on the game and then the tools, but there is also a downside to releasing the tools later. Waiting to long might make it an uphill battle to spread the word. That happened to the Witcher 2's tool, which was released two years after the game's first release on PC. They seem to have more luck with Witcher 3's editor, and I don't even think it contains a level editor.
If Larian release the tools with the game or soon enough that they can still ride the buzz of the release. I think there is a far bigger chance they would become popular. I think it's a strong message to send to the consumers that the GM-mode is there from the start, because it is part of the game and not an after thought.
Posted By: Kerrida

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 08:27 PM

Oh the release most assuredly should not be well after release of the game. My thinking is basically if it comes down to having to delay the game, or release the GM mode a bit after, I'd rather have the game first. Heck, I'd even be fine with a solid, well polish lower featured set of the GM mode with updates to come to expand on it. I'm super excited for GM Mode though, and it's probably one of my favourite pieces.
Posted By: karrachr000

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 08:48 PM

I am not sure if this has been stated before because there is a lot to go through on this thread, and I apologize If I am repeating someone else.

One thing that we need is the ability to queue events together or with a timer. This way we can create a poof of magical smoke with some swirls happening at the same time, then a fraction of a second later, we can place NPCs in that smoke (and many other events where you need to place several events or effects into play in a small amount of time.)
Posted By: Madscientist

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 09:22 PM

Many peope talk about persistent worlds with up to 50 players.
D:OS2 is a game that is designed for up to 4 players.
So I guess DM mode will be 4 players plus 1DM.
Somewhere else Raze said that Larian does not have multiplayer servers. (Not sure if he referred to D:OS EE or D:OS2).

Most importent: D:OS2 has turn based combat (unlike NWN1+2). If there were 50 people in a fight, each one had to wait several minutes until he could act for a few seconds. Battles could last for hours. Only very few people would be able or willing to do this. I think DM mode should focus on 4players + DM.

my idea: There are 4 players plus the DM. The DM can influence the environment in some ways the players can not (like controlling or creating enemies). If one players succeeds in performing a certain task, he becomes the new DM and the old DM becomes a player. There may be several options what this task may be.
Of course the normal case is that somebody is the DM all the time and he controls the environment the give players the best game experience.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/10/15 09:31 PM

To Caerbanog...

"The more problematic in your post is more the turn by turn thing. We are not very familiar with Divinity and i think we didn't even considerate that. If a pseudo real time mode like in nwn2 or pillar of eternity can't be implemented for the multiplayer, a large number of player can't happen. What would happen if a player enter in combat (and switch to turn by turn) and a player in an other map doesn't?"

It will not be real-time combat in any manner, I think that is in total stone. BUT the system was brilliantly designed to where you can have two groups in different combats at the same time and they don't interfere with one another. Or someone can be in battle and the another can be in town moving around doing their own thing. You only become part of the TB action when you are like within 30 yards or so of the conflict. So it could still work in way you allude towards.

That said, I'm not seeing the persistent world for D:OS 2. It's just too much of a difference.

I'm also in agreement that it has to come out with the game in a very solid state, if we don't like it within the first weeks, it will die in terms of people caring to use it. I'd take a strong look at how mods happen with the leading game and assume that trend to continue.

I think they should just chip away at the stone. Lets hope there is a D:OS 5 for example. Each one expands on all aspects. So we had in D:OS a mod tool, now we'll have a better mod tool and a GM Mode for D:OS 2. In D:OS 3, I suspect we'll have better Mod Tools and DM Mode yet and maybe that is when persistent servers kick in.

I'd be happy with a nice bar raise for each and every release. We've been idle for 10 years in this area, a reasonable approach per release seems realistic to me.

Some mention doing things like modifying the world live, well that has to affect everyone without reloads. They really would need to create a Standalone Server engine that feeds clients. I think that is a major change to how the engine works today.
Posted By: ablawande

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 03:04 AM

I had posted this in the backer lounge, bur it seems like it's more appropriate here:
Quote:
Hey guys, first time backer here and I'm glad my first Kickstarter had such as awesome community. Props to you guys (and Larian of course).
I'm really, really psyched for GM mode. Ever since I started DMing for my playgroup, I've wanted a system to automate things for me. That way I can spend more time crafting the story and lore, than speding brain power on minutiae like rules enforcement.
I can see why people think it would be difficult to DM online/in real time but I think it's comparable to tabletop RPGs. You would still spend a week beforehand crafting storylines and alternative scenarios for the characters, and during the game you just drop them into play and occasionally deal with curveballs the players throw at you. I agree with MechSoldier that narrative can be handled most easily through chat and voice.
In all, you would lose a bit of the interplay and socialization from tabletop gaming, but you gain a lot more in terms of rules automation, art assets, fewer chances for metagaming, and most important to me, the ability to play with people anywhere in the worlds.
A couple of things that I would like to see implemented in GM mode (let me know what you think) which would be really cool:
1) Procedural generation: You could generate everything from whole worlds to the layout and furnishings of a single room (I have the hardest time deciding what to put in dungeon rooms), maybe even NPCs, loot, and monsters
2) Session replay: Speaking from personal experience, my playgroup and I have a hard time remembering the details of things that happened a few sessions ago (especially when dealing with those curveballs I mentioned). It would be great to just be able to replay the pertinent parts for the group or an individual (less metagaming again)
Can't wait!


In general, I'm visualizing the GM mode as an online extension of the tabletop RPGs I know and love. 4 players and a DM seems ideal to me but the option to have more players/spectators is always welcome (50 is a bit much though). I'm not a big fan of letting the DM control monsters (unless it's like an endgame boss or special encounter).
In a tabletop RPG, monsters have rules to govern their behavior and to keep the game free from bias (one of the reasons dice rolling features heavily). These are systems that can easily be automated to free up the players and GM to focus on their main goals: The GM builds the world, and the players write the story.
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 07:49 AM

@Kerrida - You're right and who's is gonna play GM-mode on their first playthrough anyway? Might as well release it a few weeks later like they did with GTA online.. Only working this time... The important thing is that there is a community that supports the tools and that the message gets out there.
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 08:14 AM

I think the devs are hoping for a lot of total conversions. I think it was Swen who said he'd love to see a moba in this engine. So it is definitively possible to make a real time mod, though it might take quite a lot of work.
Posted By: Dr Koin

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 08:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Tiggerdyret
@Kerrida - You're right and who's is gonna play GM-mode on their first playthrough anyway? Might as well release it a few weeks later like they did with GTA online.. Only working this time... The important thing is that there is a community that supports the tools and that the message gets out there.


Well I know people that got Mass Effect 3 and never went through the actual game, only focusing on the MP. Yes, Mass Effect Multiplayer, which ca be fun, true, but clearly not a fully-fledged MultiPlayer game in its own right =)

I could totally imagine people getting DOS2 only for the GM mode myself. I even think some people here said they were successfull in convincing their otherwise uninterested friends to get the game just for the GM mode, or something like that. This is a serious feature and selling point if done right.

Although I agree it could be released a few weeks later as part of a DLC or something, I'm not sure it should. It's best for such a feature to be a part of the game right from the start, rather than be "the DLC feature", which is quite pejorative =)
Posted By: Adrian Pedersen

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 09:43 AM

Hi everyone. My first post on this forum.

As a GM of P&P games since 1984, I thought I would share some thoughts:

Every good GM knows that you spend litterally thousands of hours preparing the setting for the players. Hence, the option to preplan and save an area in D:OS2 should be implemented.

It is also highly unlikely that you will be able to insert intelligent NPCs in such areas, and let the player communicate with them. Merchants and such, yes. However, inserting hints, tips and clues should be no problem. Parchments in chests, writing on walls, etc. I guess this is already in the plans.

One of the flawed but extremely useful systems in AD&D, was the Random Encounter chart. A similar system could be easily adapted in D:OS2. Let the game decide if there should be any encounters in an area whenever the players decide to go walkabout, and let the GM launch it with a single click. Of course this should be adapted to the player's current level. One of the flaws in the AD&D system was that the DM could roll up a Red Dragon for the first-level players, killing the party in one turn.

This also launched the term "Random Encounter Quest," where the players just walked into the wilds with hopes of finding monsters to raise their XP. The P&P version of grinding, and a huge headache for any GM who wanted to move the campaign forwards. You plan every major encounter in advance, and then the players just swat them aside because they've spent a week massacring Kobolds. No fun at all.

Exploration, riddles and traps is the backbone of any decent P&P campaign IMHO. The problem with crossing a river, or opening a door. This is much more important to me as a GM than slaying monsters. Implementing a system for this will be vital. Ballance is also important.

On the question of how to adapt this system to the main game, it's actually quite simple. The GM creates a side quest/campaign, and at some point in the main game, played in GM-modus, the players get sucked into it. Look in the wrong mirror, open the wrong door, move a barrel to find a trapdoor to the Underdark. Playing the main game in D:OS2 in GM mode just as easily do this as it's done in P&P games. It's basically a question of letting a GM create their own micro-campaigns.

This also creates an absolutely brilliant possibility for community interaction, but that's something my head hasn't quite gotten around yet.
Posted By: Hassat Hunter

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 11:38 AM

Well, I think people going for persistant big multiplayers worlds are going to be really dissapointed.

Aside from that I do share a lot of the sceptisism towards GM-mode. Considering the difficulty and time-consuming effort of level-creation I seriously doubt that any level editing on the fly will also be part of the package.

Some things I would image:
* Hiding player stats from the GM, so they cannot with 100% guarantee know what skills the crew they GM have and can put up on traps and riddles (as also in above post) on the fly with the need to react if they can or cannot resolve it, adding more reactivity to both sides.
* A dialogue tool for GM mode that isn't a preset-dialogue file like used in the game. It'll allow the GM to type in real time and the 'pets' to reply in real time. The players then amongst themselves pick which of the responses they gave to rely to the GM to continue. This way the GM doesn't need to pre-dialogue edit files with a lot of potential branches that'll never be met (that's for mods) but can keep things active on the fly. The created dialog however can still be saved (along with all proposed player lines, not just the picked) for actual use in modding later, in order to create more 'organic' dialogue options with players for example. This should also allow the GM if desired to make their event more easily into a mod if it proved to be a lot of fun.

But seriously, Larian should look at their ideas and think if allowing good modding and custom maps and quests is not enough, since those are required for GM, and cannot be done 'on the fly' at all. And if a custom campaign is created, what actual worth it is to make someone master it rather than people run through it as they do the campaign the game ships with. If there's no added worth, it should really just be dropped. Then again, with the schedules idea in mind, I do expect you guys to make the right decision even with it being a pledge goal that's reached...
Posted By: Tiggerdyret

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 01:11 PM

I would find it fun to play through the campaign with a friend controlling the enemies, or the other way around. It would also be a good way for a someone to drop in in middle a game and just have fun for a couple of hours, while the one controlling the characters can still focus on the story that they might already have invested 50 hours in. It's pretty hard to find the time to play through an 80 hour game with a friend.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/10/15 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Tiggerdyret
I would find it fun to play through the campaign with a friend controlling the enemies, or the other way around. It would also be a good way for a someone to drop in in middle a game and just have fun for a couple of hours, while the one controlling the characters can still focus on the story that they might already have invested 50 hours in. It's pretty hard to find the time to play through an 80 hour game with a friend.


I really don't think that will happen. A GM messing with the main quest scripts and triggers might break them.

Honestly the idea of dropping into a random game in this kind of game does not make sense, much less dropping into someone's random game and becoming a GM.
Posted By: Barry Wom

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 12:13 AM

Quote:
So, what would your dream DM-mode look like?

Requests for live DM mode and a public or private 4 w/1 session, assuming a capable player/game tagging system -from Role Play to Just Come At Me Bro:

1. Live GM able to possess and place any creature or object including a player character. w/accompanying permission toggles. Friends can set GM permissions to full, strangers can look for games with GM permission toggles set to what they are comfortable with. Full control to very little control.

In my opinion, if maximum live GM control is the goal, everything else will fall into place and provide for a pleasant gaming experience.

I'm a frequenter of the Sword Coast Legends forums. SCL's approach of "ease of use" regarding a GM (DM) throwing together a quick module and stocking on the fly is pretty cool, unfortunately they have sacrificed DM/GM control for balance by going after the pick-up-game-with-strangers crowd -a type of game play that screams "Balance this!"

This seems to have created more balance questions than it answers and pretty much indicates to me that giving folks the options of joining games they like or agree with the permission settings, is the very best way to proceed with a live GM mode.
Posted By: norD

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 04:38 AM

Originally Posted By: Horrorscope

2. Move around the map at will.
Could you develop on this? I'm not sure to understand.

Originally Posted By: Madscientist

Somewhere else Raze said that Larian does not have multiplayer servers. (Not sure if he referred to D:OS EE or D:OS2).
It says what it says. There's no "server" at Larian. Every coop or multiplayer is host by one player.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 02:48 PM

Originally Posted By: norD
Originally Posted By: Horrorscope

2. Move around the map at will.
Could you develop on this? I'm not sure to understand.


Probably something that is a given, but the GM simply has to be able to easily move around the loaded map easily to go to where the players are to do something and be able to go to a place they might be in a little bit to do something. Eye in the sky.

Something meaning, place, remove, modify things a DM has control of.


Not Related: Earlier I mentioned that D:OS2 is TB and that is in stone, really I cannot say that. All I know is that it is, but someone has mentioned Larian could see a moba mode for the game, now would that be TB or real-time? If they are thinking real-time, then it would seem that could perceivably come back into the main part of the game.
Posted By: Wraith367

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 05:05 PM

Don't try to do too much with this mode. That doesn't mean don't put effort into it, but I have seen requests for:

Online 64+ player persistent worlds. This isn't NWN, and it shouldn't be.
Competitive GMing, with switching GMs (Sword Cost Legends Style)
GMs that can magically make major edits on the fly, including building a module while players are playing through it.
Ability to GM the main game, including rewriting it (also on the fly?)

Obviously, most of these are incompatible, and questionable even by themselves. What I would like to see:

Multiple levels of GMing, based on the map played. 'Locked' maps (such as the main campaign) might allow limited GMing, such as controlling enemies, adding / changing traps, and just generally tweaking the difficulty of the experience. Levels specifically designed for GMing would allow many more features.

GMs should be limited to a reasonable number of players. The standard would be up to 5 (4 players and 1 GM), but if the game could support a few more (no reason it can't, if it seems to be able to do up to 5 when 4 is standard), then up to 9 would be nice.

GM should be able to:
Add/remove monters/traps
Control monsters
Add buffs/debuffs to parties/monsters
Edit monsters (add abilities, stats, levels, XP, drop table, etc)
Add remove path blockers (eg a wall that dissapears when quest progress is made).
Create on the fly dialogue with NPCs.
Place loot

Ideally, this could all be done in realtime while in game, although probably some work would have to be done beforehand in the editor. Actually creating maps, adding areas, etc should all be done in editor, not in game.
Posted By: Dr Koin

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 05:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Wraith367

GM should be able to:
Add/remove monters/traps
Control monsters
Add buffs/debuffs to parties/monsters
Edit monsters (add abilities, stats, levels, XP, drop table, etc)
Add remove path blockers (eg a wall that dissapears when quest progress is made).
Create on the fly dialogue with NPCs.
Place loot


That would the most basic things the GM mode MUST be able to do, I completely agree.
However it's also the most basic and potentially uninteresting way of playing a RPG - well in my opinion. The dreaded Door-monster-treasure type of game. It would also kinda limit the options for a more enterprising GM with more enterprising players.

I agree that full editing on-the-fly of modules sound a bit too complex, and no human player could possibly be fast enough to do that. However I still stick to the "pre-made assets" function, so that a GM can add new premade rooms on the fly if their players turn out to be innovative.
Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/10/15 06:40 PM

I'd love the capability to make Persistent Worlds, but it does seem out of scope. Perhaps, just maybe, they'll have enough editable functionality to allow modders to try for this. But it would be unwise to focus too much attention on these for an admittedly low-population game type.

And I agree with Horrorscope. VERY important that a GM does not have to be where the players are. This would inherently mean that combat (and some dialogue) can be automated. BUT, I really believe a GM can take over any NPC. Generic monster, enemy boss, random NPC villager. They should be able to chat as that person. Additionally, there should be some robust 'rolling' mechanics for non-combat skills (or, at least, some basic functionality that a GM can extrapolate and implement with other game features).
Posted By: dblade

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 04/10/15 02:29 PM

I like allot of the ideas so far and also agree that persistent worlds, large player counts, major on the fly changes, etc. are most likely "out of scope".

I feel that even dedicated servers are out of scope (never intended), but I still hope they are considered. Think of the issues you face if the host crashes mid game, they suddenly need to leave, or the machine they are on has trouble hosting. I think some people would like to be able to GM and/or be a player on their own server as they see fit. Maybe even switch roles during the same play session.

Also most people these days don't seem to want to stick around for very long play sessions so a friendly drop in/drop out system is a must. I think that dedicated servers would certainly enhance this.
Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 04/10/15 04:52 PM

Just took a look at the Editor/GM mode stream (took me long enough). Absolutely LOVE the idea of modder-created templates for GM functionality. Think that's a really wise way to go that adds tons of flexibility, but also allows a GM's life to be easy (or hard).

The only consideration in this is how an END-USER will grab these mods. This might be something we, as a community, have to develop. We need a robust website/game UI that automagically downloads all necessary mods. BUT, this also shouldn't bloat a player's game, which means some templates should be shared and not re-downloaded. It will be very difficult for anyone to create a functional pre-programmed system for this. Instead, we should focus on putting together 'community packs' of useful functionality that can be easily shared as a single download. Enhancing UX. Maybe Larian could curate the most popular mods and put them into endorsed/approved packs. A great mod community will only form if we have great user experience. Part of the responsibility rests on Larian to develop great systems. But part of that responsibility also falls on us, as a community, to develop great culture.
Posted By: Raith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/15 12:39 AM

Look, if they are going to do a shitty GM mode like in Sword Coast Legends then don't even waste the money, that DM mode, like the rest of the game, is fucking terrible. Not to mention that whoever came up with the idea to make it a competitive thing is an imbecile that clearly never played a PNP game. A DM is omnipotent in the game, it is genuinely no contest if he is against the players, hence to make it "fair" they drastically, and completely pointlessly, limit the DM to a bad version of Dungeon Keeper.

A proper GM mode needs to have access to full editor capabilities in game, in other words NWN1 or 2 tier. Personally I don't care if you make it possible to do a big open persistent world or not but it needs to have the same level of power to be worth it otherwise it's probably too restrictive.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/15 12:55 AM

Raith, we all have our opinions. First it would be different than SC, because the mod tool in this will do more, that is the A1# complaint over there and that is the cookie cutter map creator.

IMO these all can come come in different shapes and sizes. It may not be how you like, it may do things different than what a table top GM would do. But I'm up for doing something here and I'm not locked into something has to be a certain way. This has been done so little that a starting point anywhere is moving it forward.
Posted By: Raith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/15 02:00 AM

It may have been done so little that anything is progress, BUT you are ignoring the fact that the NWN and NWN2 DM modes were really really good so they are very valuable examples of what you might want to achieve.

Also, the gentleman up earlier in the comments talking about NWN2's persistent worlds is ignoring something, NWN2's big persistent worlds existed INSPITE of the tool set in the game. The tool set wasn't made for such a thing and was eventually modded to all hell till it supported the big 50+ player persistent worlds. It's actually a marvel to be honest, a true testament to the will of a modding community and I believe that with the same amount of love DivOS2 could feasibly do the same even if Larian doesn't implement it themselves, as long as the base DM mode is powerful enough to spark the desire and frankly something shit like Sword Coast Legends won't spark the desire.
Posted By: Baardvark

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/15 04:29 AM

A turn-based game just doesn't do very well with more than 10 players, and even more than five can be slow unless everyone is coordinated, or at least there's some way to limit turn length or skip player turns. Or, the players are in different combat sessions but still working together (or competing, I suppose), but that's hard to pull off.

Is there a video of some really awesome GMing in NWN or NWN2? I looked before, but I couldn't find anything that actually seemed interesting. Probably weren't too many screencasts being made in NWN's heydey, but I could be wrong.

Originally Posted By: HolmstN
Just took a look at the Editor/GM mode stream (took me long enough). Absolutely LOVE the idea of modder-created templates for GM functionality. Think that's a really wise way to go that adds tons of flexibility, but also allows a GM's life to be easy (or hard).

The only consideration in this is how an END-USER will grab these mods. This might be something we, as a community, have to develop. We need a robust website/game UI that automagically downloads all necessary mods. BUT, this also shouldn't bloat a player's game, which means some templates should be shared and not re-downloaded. It will be very difficult for anyone to create a functional pre-programmed system for this. Instead, we should focus on putting together 'community packs' of useful functionality that can be easily shared as a single download. Enhancing UX. Maybe Larian could curate the most popular mods and put them into endorsed/approved packs. A great mod community will only form if we have great user experience. Part of the responsibility rests on Larian to develop great systems. But part of that responsibility also falls on us, as a community, to develop great culture.


I don't see how Nexus/Steam Workshop won't fulfill this role as a supplier of various GM functions. Unless you're wondering if, say, a GM downloads a template for a certain function, then do the players also have to download it? Ideally, the players won't also need to download the template, since everyone is basically connected to the editor anyway, and most templates will probably merely be shortcuts to activate certain scripts that use all the base code.

If the players do need to download the templates, then it would be imperative that the player auto-downloads the templates upon joining a GM's game where there are custom templates. Every time you require several players to do something outside of the game, you drastically reduce the number of people who will partake in the game. They also should do this for regular mods, so if a player downloads a mod for the main campaign and hosts a game, then when another player joins, they can choose to auto-download the mods they are using (at the very least, for steam workshop mods, but preferably for mods from other places too. Basically, the other players should be able to download the mods from the host, so it shouldn't matter where they're from).

As far as bloat, I imagine most templates will be mere kilobytes if they're basically just text files that contain the scripts and the template code. Only templates that include custom content will be big.
Posted By: xxswatelitexx

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/15 06:54 AM

The way I see the only way GM mode ever becoming popular is it has to be simple and intuitive. While being flexible when necessary.

I imagine DM mode divided into two separate operating modes.

Preparation Mode:
Live Mode:

The Preparation mode is essentially a simplified version of the editor. It lets you build the map, create factions, and faction associations ( which groups are allies, which groups are enemies, etc ) It also lets you create two types of units. Profile based units, which creates units randomly based on a set of parameters. Unique units which look exactly as set by the creator.

The 2nd part of preparation mode are premade scripts. Something like a merchant script - soldier script, archer script etc. Essentially Ai packages which can either be from Larian or custom made. So when you place a unit in live mode, you can just assign the package to the unit and they will act accordingly based on that package.

Finally when you finish "preparing" you save it as a package file and the package file is loaded when you host and gets "distributed" to the clients. This package contains the map \ unique scripts \ and other custom assets.

When the game is in motion you have "Live Mode"
Live mode would essentially be like a control station of sorts.

Lighting \ Weather Button - This changes the light to dark \ dusk \ noon \ night. Which lets you set the mood for the area.

An object button - which lets you drop objects. Clicking on the object lets you move it around and rotate it. Right clicking on the object lets you set the object as a container \ trap \ etc. Lets you set the weight of the object as well as health and description.

Then an NPC button which lets you choose from the prefabricated characters you made in preperation mode, either a unique character or profile based character.

Finally by clicking on the character you can order it to do things such as; sit, move, run, interact with "x" object. Or if you have a custom script, it will run that.

Also there are 2 types of dialogs.
1. Pre fabricated dialogs created in preperation mode. For example gate gaurd etc.

2. Live Dialogs which opens a some what of a chat window with the avatar [ 3d ] of the character appearing next to each statement the character makes. Where the DM can also activate a manual Dice Roll or rock paper scissors match with player.

==
I think by keeping Live mode simple - it will allow much flexibility for more users. While making sure the DM's are constantly being engaged. Especially since you forcibly split preparation mode to an offline event where the DM has to first prepare everything in advance, instead of forcing players to wait for the DM to set the stage.
Posted By: Octu

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 12:07 AM

I think, it will be interesting to make GM mode as a kind of game in the game.

E.G., Game Master have some GM points. He spend this points to change envirnment, quest, monsters etc. Different changes cost different amount of points. And he earn this points for differen activities.
Further in text GMP = Game Master's Points

E.g., some rules:

Common
Click to reveal..
- GM has skill tree, which contains some upgrade for his abilities and new features (type of creatures, scripts etc).
- GM gain xp equal to xp gained by player in his quests. GM gain one fourth of xp gained by player out of his quests.
- XP allows to use new features, scripts, monsters. But to use them, GM actually spend GMP.
- There is some boundary amount of GMP. If GMP decrease below this boundary, it will regenerate in moderate temp.
- Every 30 minute, players can judge GM's actions (voting). Thus GM get rating, e.g., from 1.0 to 5.0. If GM get rating higher than 3.0 he gains some bonus GMP. Vice versa for rating lower than 3.0 he suffer from GMP penalty
- If GM get 1.0-2.0 rating three times in a row he will be kicked from game session (or make voting).
- Any time players can vote for GM be kicked from game session.
- I think, it will be interesting to make some type of GM global score with high score list. After every game session with random players, GM will earn some global points. GMs steady loose some global points every day. The higher score the more points they loose, thus they must play in regular manner to achieve the top of high score list. But anyone can easily have some moderate score without daily games. It will show that they have DM expirience. GM can also get some score points for playing with friends (very low points).
- The higher GM global rank, the more features he can use from the start of new game.


For battles
Click to reveal..
- GM can take over control any one npc in any encounter for free. Players see that. Some GM skills can improve npc in battle (e.g., more health or improved level of ability).
- GM can spend some GMP to take over control every npc in battle. This ability has cooldown and cost moderate amount of GMP. Some skills can reduce cooldown time and cost.
- If GM behave active in such battle, He get xp up to 100% of xp gained by player for killing monsters controlled.
- If GM behave passive in such battles (do no damage for players or use no skills), he get low xp (up to 0), and can suffer from GMP penalty.
- If GM win battle, he gain some additional GMP (but no xp). Thus GM has profit to fight strong: xp for loosing, GMP for winning.


For quests
Click to reveal..
- There are some types of quests activities, e.g., random encounter, ambush, riddle, time rush, side quest, etc.
- Different activities has different cooldowns. It brings more variety.
- Activity cost depend on number of elements used to make it.
- GM can't set amount of xp, players gain for his tasks.
- GM and players gain equal amount of xp during the quest.
- GM can delete quest/objects and refund half of spent GMP.
- GM gain GMP for players get xp in his quest. GMP amount depends on quest variety. E.g., let there are only three sources of xp in certain quest: x1 - expirience gained for battles, x2 - expirience gained for finding certain item, x3 - some another sort of expirience, a1, a2, a3 - some sort of coefficients which depend on type of xp source and player's levels. Let GMP = x1*(1 - a1*x1^2)*x2*(1 - a2*x2^2)*x3*(1-a3*x3^2). Thus, if GM want to make big quest, He should make it with different types of tasks (kill, bring, steal, interrogate, etc). And one complex quest allows to gain far more GMP than several small ones. GMP amount will calculate during quest walkthrough, Thus the more far player advance, the more GMP will be received.


GM's hideout
Click to reveal..
- GM has its own training area, to try out different quest for free. He can save assets and then transfer them on common map. Area's size depend's on GM's level.
- GM can invite players to his hideout. They can do anything they want (GM is some sort of God here), but they won't get any xp, gold, gear etc. What happens here, stays here =)
Player can go back any time.
- GM can once per day teleport players (or some of them) to his hideout to play his own quests. Due to, GM has no cost for placing assets here, He can prepare bloody dungeon with blackjack and hookers several crazy poet mages. GM can't change anything while players in his hideout, but they both get xp for quests. GM can place gears, treasures, but players won't be available to get it outside the hideout. But players will get some rewards for quests completing (random generated without DM) and will save it outside.
- Players can leave GM's hideout after 5-15 minutes after arriving (depends on GM level). Players can leave it after die. DM can teleport players back. And always players can vote for kicking DM.
Posted By: LordCrash

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 01:44 AM

@Octu

I like your ideas although I have to say that this sounds like a game in itself aka way too complicated and work-intensive for DOS 2...
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 01:51 AM

^I think watching what Sword Coast does with it's GM, we can see if that is a good way to go or not. But no bad ideas at all. I think if you have more drop in - drop out mp, you need rules for the GM so they can't grief a game. Amongst a tight group of friends, I think GM's stay within their own groups understandings. So perhaps a toggle of rules/no rules GM'ing.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 04:21 AM

Does drop-in-drop-out work at ALL with a GM mode, though?

I don't think that it does - especially not for the GM position. So the GM would have to be the host, and if the GM gets disconnected, that's a disconnect for everyone. I can't see different random players dropping into the middle of a GM session being great either, they'll start out confused.

In a Pen and Paper game, wouldn't it be pretty much unheard of twenty sessions in for Bob to leave, and then Clive joins the group and then starts playing Bob's character?
Posted By: Octu

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: LordCrash
@Octu

I like your ideas although I have to say that this sounds like a game in itself aka way too complicated and work-intensive for DOS 2...


I agree, it is rather hard and expensive to put this ideas into practice. But it is only the first stage of gathering ideas, brainstorm. It is usually recomended to gather all ideas even absolutely crazy ones. Some of them can lead to real things.

GM mode should to be included in the main module of D:OS 2, or it won't be seen by most of players.
It is obviously, GM can be like God in user's mods. But in the main module he should to have some limist (at least, during the first walkthrough). So I try to construct some examples.
By the way, I think it is not too hard to give expirience to GM and open some editors options during game progress.

But when I dream on GM mode... Oh... Hereafter just a piece of my sweet dreams.

Click to reveal..
Just imagine, GM is a part of game narrative. It can repair the main pretension to GM mode - it has no value for singleplayer.

Imagine, there is some Mighty Thing linked with the player's characters. It grow stronger with players achievements. But it hates them, because its fate depends on such miserable creations...
Oh, stop... I think, I just described The Transcendent One =D

Or may be some great mage soulbounded with players. And he tries get out from Hall of Echoes.
Or it is an abomination which struck Source. The more often player use dark side of Source, the more stronger can Mighty Think interfer in players game.
Or etc...

Ok, let's continue. Let's this Mighty Thing has its own story involved into players ones. If there is no GM in game session, Mighty Thing appears only in story and in random encounter (like it orginise attacks on player). It also can randomly increase strength of some monsters.
If there is GM in game session, he can make the same and more. And he get his own story, which allows to see game narrative with different point of view. E.g., players think Mighty Thing want to kill them, But it just know they'll face with very strong enemy and try to prepare them. What does not kill us makes us stronger.
Posted By: Adrian Pedersen

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 09:40 AM

Originally Posted By: Stabbey
In a Pen and Paper game, wouldn't it be pretty much unheard of twenty sessions in for Bob to leave, and then Clive joins the group and then starts playing Bob's character?


It's done, if it's just for a vital part of the campaign, and the character is important. However, the normal thing would be to put Bob's character on ice in some way, because Clive would generally want to do his own thing. I've never experienced a new player wanting to "take over" a character from someone else.
Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 01:37 PM

I tend to be in agreement with Stabbey. All in all, while a gamey GM mode might be fun, it wouldn't be a creation catered to the people that most want it. SCL made a gamey GM mode and many people were upset; they wanted the power to create imbalanced things. NSpace misread the market. Larian should avoid the same mistake.

That said, I hope we can mod in a mode like you're saying. That extensibility allows for a lot of ingenuity.
Posted By: LordCrash

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 01:52 PM

Well, isn't "misreading" the market what we always want good devs to do? There are way too many market-based games out there and way too less games that are made because the devs want them to function in a certain way because they like it that way. I mean, DOS was pretty much like that as well. It concentrates on co-op MP in the first place, although >80% of the actual customers only play the game in SP. I'd say that pretty much qualifies for the same "misreading of the market" if you put it like that. And they even go deeper into that space for DOS 2. I'm not so sure if it's a "mistake" but that's of course debatable...
Posted By: magmar

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 02:39 PM

Here is what i would like to see;

1) The ability to write and place handcrafted notes for players to find - maybe a treasure map - maybe some humor that is specific to the character names -

2) Complete control of the monsters turns by the DM - with the option to click full auto - or auto through a single turn

3) item designer - create custom items to hand place in the game - these would be unique
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 04:16 PM

If they miss the market by making the best support for pw and sending nwn to the grave, i'm ok with that.
Posted By: Baardvark

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 05:01 PM

I'm solidly against any artificial limits on the GM in an effort to make it more of a game. The biggest draw of a GM mode should be the greatest amount of freedom possible. At most, they should make it possible for modders to add that, but they shouldn't spend any effort themselves on trying to balance a game mode like that.

Here are the templates/tools I'd like to see, from most basic to the more difficult

Resurrect player/NPC

Teleport player/NPC

Start a timer or turn counter that displays on the screen for the players

Random number generator

GM text that displays in some special box or on the bottom of the screen somewhere, or GM can also talk through an NPC and bypass its stock conversation options. Players would probably have to type or speak their responses instead of selecting from a list, since that'd be impossible to whip up on the fly.

Add a journal entry to all or some players, using either preset journal entries or ones you write on the fly.

Private communication with certain players

Add experience/items

Mark ownership on items and move them around

Add and manipulate triggers

The ability to change the atmosphere, at least to a preset value, but modifying all the values would be awesome.

Ability to see all active timers in the code and pause or start one (probably only timers that are marked as GM-changeable to prevent situations where a GM breaks a quest or system.) Situations where this would be useful is if you had a day night cycle, and you wanted to bypass that to skip ahead to morning from night to indicate the players had slept, for example.

Quest templates for basic kill and fetch quests, though I'm actually skeptical about the importance of the ability to make quests on the fly. After all, a quest in itself doesn't really mean anything, it's just used to symbolize that there's a task. But if you have a GM indicating there's a task, and reward you for completing it, you don't have as much need for the code (though obviously it's nice to automate things if you're trying to do a lot at once, and conversation coding is still important to make NPCs say different things if you've completed a task.)
Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 07:28 PM

Originally Posted By: LordCrash
Well, isn't "misreading" the market what we always want good devs to do? There are way too many market-based games out there and way too less games that are made because the devs want them to function in a certain way because they like it that way. I mean, DOS was pretty much like that as well. It concentrates on co-op MP in the first place, although >80% of the actual customers only play the game in SP. I'd say that pretty much qualifies for the same "misreading of the market" if you put it like that. And they even go deeper into that space for DOS 2. I'm not so sure if it's a "mistake" but that's of course debatable...


In principle I agree. The 'market' I'm referring to is the target audience. For Larian, this means those attracted to a GM mode... PnP players/DM's, creative modders, Role Players. If they try to cater to the general gaming market, we run into a SCL issue of missing the target audience for the sake of a broader grab.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 09:15 PM

Originally Posted By: Stabbey
Does drop-in-drop-out work at ALL with a GM mode, though?

I don't think that it does - especially not for the GM position. So the GM would have to be the host, and if the GM gets disconnected, that's a disconnect for everyone. I can't see different random players dropping into the middle of a GM session being great either, they'll start out confused.

In a Pen and Paper game, wouldn't it be pretty much unheard of twenty sessions in for Bob to leave, and then Clive joins the group and then starts playing Bob's character?


Perhaps I'm not using the best word for this saying Drop in and Drop out, that is a MP style unto itself. But playing MP DM games with strangers. But again that may not be what D:OS2 is about, D:OS surely wasn't. But if we can create our own content perhaps that content is targeted towards more random players coming together.

But if there is Drop In/Out, yes that seems like it would exclude the GM, I would be thinking randoms jumping in and out as PC's only.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/10/15 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: HolmstN
I tend to be in agreement with Stabbey. All in all, while a gamey GM mode might be fun, it wouldn't be a creation catered to the people that most want it. SCL made a gamey GM mode and many people were upset; they wanted the power to create imbalanced things. NSpace misread the market. Larian should avoid the same mistake.


I don't think we know if NSPace misread the market. Over there like here, there aren't that many unique posters, so we can't say how the masses will take to it. I'm intrigued by the offering and personally I don't get bogged down in how necessarily I want it, but is there take on it fun? I know they took quite a bit of heat (from the small pool of posters), but what 99% of all other CRPG's don't even have any of those features. So I'm half full for sure. If I'm going to knock them, then I want to knock the other 99% for doing even less in this space.

That said, perhaps they have done a poor job in executing their take on GM'ing.

+1 To LordCrash's comments. (Forum needs a like button)

Reading all the suggestions has boiled my minimum down to two things:
1. Able to GM the main game.
2. GM can jump into a baddie(s) and use their human intelligence against the PC's, that right there makes it unique and more challenging the to the PC's and allows the GM to have a fun quick role.

Sure I'll take more, but if I had just that, I'd have a very nice alternate play method.
Posted By: Raith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/10/15 12:44 AM

Legends of the Sword coast doesn't have a good DM mode worth emulating. It is a bizarre annoying thing that isn't conducive to a fun PnP style experience.
NWN however does.

A DM mode isn't the place for a bizarre competitive round robin mode, it should be attempting to emulate table top as much as possible, and through that desire the DM should have as much power and ability to change things as possible, the more editor functions they have access to in game (not to mention console commands) the better it will be.

"But Raith, building a big detailed area in game would be time consuming, what about that?"
That's why you should be prepared and have the major areas built if not populated in the editor before even loading it up for your group little one. Simple, no?

"But a DM should have a skill tree and gain levels and stuff to get more crap to do in the game!"
Why? The DM isn't in competition with the players, he is facilitating their story and game, now if this story kills them oh well but that isn't a success for the DM, it is simply the way it played out.

But if the DM can do anything from the start, what's to stop him from winning?
...The DM isn't in competition with the players, and if you have a DM (or you are that DM) that think that killing the party is "winning" then you shouldn't play with him/shouldn't be DM.

"DMs should be able to control the monsters directly to fight the party!"
I'm not against this, but it shouldn't be mandatory because personally I would be using that time gained in battle setting up the next area if it needed it.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/10/15 02:47 AM

Raith is pretty on the ball. The key to a REAL GM mode is that you are trying to creative an active story you can change and alter on the fly in order to ENTERTAIN the players.

You aren't trying to beat them, that isn't a GM mode. Sword Coast Legends doesn't really have a GM mode, just what they pass off as one.

---

As for "Too highly detailed" why not allow simpler snap in tiles with clear entrances and exits for on the fly and easy construction?

You can have your extremely high detailed large (or small) areas. But we could also have more of a simpler almost lego approach as well.

So you could load up a field, plop down a house... Poof! you could create a dungeon room by room "poof poof poof".

Sure you definitely would get large black spaces if you go for that. Yet the advantage of it is that a GM who uses them can more easily change and modify the layout of the world they build.
Posted By: Raith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/10/15 07:08 AM

Exactly. Legends of the Sword Coast doesn't have a DM mode just like it isn't a D&D game. It is a lie meant to trick people into buying a game that they might not normally purchase, a lie that I nearly fell for might I add. Thank you people that streamed that horrid game.
Posted By: Octu

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/10/15 12:04 PM

Originally Posted By: Raith
A DM mode isn't the place for a bizarre competitive round robin mode, it should be attempting to emulate table top as much as possible


'Should' is a key word.
You have a community familiar with GM. But this idea rather new for many Larian's players. This players were rather dissapointed by GM as KS stretch goal. So I thought, They can be interested in some sort of symbiosis of pnp GM and asymmetric coop-multiplayer.

In fact, I think, Larian will make GM mod like 'developers mod' in Divinity 2. There will be launcher with 2 options. And if you choose GM mod, there will be notifications like: 'Developers are not responsible for failed script, stability etc in this mod'. And you can do anythig you want in game.
Posted By: Raith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/10/15 03:09 PM

I really wasn't much a part of the NWN community, I know what a DM is because I've played pen & paper RPG's for damn near 20 years, it's one of the reasons why I love DivOS due to the freedom of fucking around the one thing that it's missing is irritating the DM because the party has been deliberately ignoring his carefully laid out quest hooks for the past 5 sessions so we can start a mining business or something else absolutely ridiculous.
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/10/15 09:12 AM

That's the point of persistent worlds. It's player characters living their own life and doing role-play between them with occasional animations by a DM. So if players want to start a mining business, they can (and many had already do that ;p).

The job of the DM (i'm talking in the case of PW, not in general) is to give to the player "tools" to help interactions between the players, make the world living, and some-time creating major plot-line within the module.

It's not just about 50 players fighting monsters all the day. There are quests with any fight involved, political intrigues and factions play.

In NwN, some of these worlds live since ten years, with player connected several times by week. But now, NwN start to becoming really old and a little wearying, so you can understand the hype in the NwN community with the DM mode of D:OS2 :'D
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/10/15 03:10 PM

For persistent worlds to really be meaningful in D:OS, you would need respawning enemies and encounters, and you'd also need someone constantly maintaining the world and ensuring a constant flow of new content. Without that constant maintenance, your players would run out of things to do.

That is theoretically possible to do, but I think the biggest obstacle would be finding some kind of DM who has enough time to handle said constant maintenance in a game which, unlike Skyrim, does not have built-in systems to do that automatically.
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/10/15 07:39 PM

We are already a team of developers with a long experience of PW in NwN ready to do the same in Divinity:OS2 if the DM mode and the editor has enough possibilities.

The respawn mechanism can easily be implemented in any game allowing to spawn dynamically a character. In fact, a PW need the same system than a MMO, with dungeons, quests... An even more.
Posted By: Madscientist

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 11/10/15 06:55 PM

To the fans of persistent worlds: ask yourself 2 questions.
- Do you have a server that is permanently on and that can host many players? Larian said they do not have servers. Do you want to check all the time what the players are doing on your server?

- Have you ever played a game with 5 or more players at the same time and with turn based combat (one creature acts after the other)? In all games with pw I know (not so many, I admit) all players can do something all the time, they do not have to wait until all other players finished their turn.

I think GM mode will be one of two possibilities (maybe both):
- some kind of asymetric pvp
- simulating a PnP game (up to 4 players play a campaign that is designed and moderated by the GM)

I do not say that persistent worlds are impossible. But it will be lots of work to get it working and the final result would be very different from the D:OS we know.
Posted By: Caerbanog

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/10/15 12:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Madscientist
To the fans of persistent worlds: ask yourself 2 questions.
- Do you have a server that is permanently on and that can host many players? Larian said they do not have servers. Do you want to check all the time what the players are doing on your server?


Yes, the dedicated server is require and we already had it (like many PW). Secondly, players can (and are supposed) to do their own stuff without a DM behind them. In a PW, the majority of the interactions are between the players, in many PW players could play for weeks without DM. In practice, several DM are connected every day for 3 or 4 hours.

The best way to imagine a RP PW is from the point of view of a MMORPG. In a MMORPG, you don't need DM to do explore the world, do dungeon or other stuff like that. If you want you can RP with other player and some players do such RP for hours everyday.

In a RP PW, the main goal is to do RP stuff and there is zero Out Of Character interations. But good PW also have MMO and SandBox system, like dungeons, resources collection. So when a DM is not here (mainly for interactions with non-playable characters), the player can do these MMO stuff.

Originally Posted By: Madscientist

- Have you ever played a game with 5 or more players at the same time and with turn based combat (one creature acts after the other)? In all games with pw I know (not so many, I admit) all players can do something all the time, they do not have to wait until all other players finished their turn.


I heared somewhere that Divinity accept local turn by turn, i.e. players away from the combat are not in turn by turn. The miss-conception with PW is that player are fighting all together. In PW, players are not friends or even allies, they can be enemy. Usually there is a main HUB, like a city or something else where players can meet. In these city, players don't fight and mainly talk (and even, in PW 80% of time, it's just talking). So the TbT is not a problem. When players fight (or even are with a DM), they are usually in little groups (it's why we need several DM).

Fight actually involving more than 10 players are quite rare and anyway just a mess. Instead of a big fight with wave of trash-mobs, i think it can be managed with lesser and harder mob, taking advantage of the turn by turn setting. In a PW, there is no reload the past savegame or other stuff like that and if you are killed during an animation or by another player, your character is dead, like really really dead and you have just to create another. So I think that having a Turn by Turn setting could actually be quite welcomed. It's never nice to die because an assassin killed your 2years character in 10 sec while you where looking elsewhere :p.


It's a little like i am repeating myself by we don't ask (or don't even want) that Larian create a "MMO DM mode" for Divinity. We just want the tools to create our PW, more precisely:
- Dedicated server
- No hard limit on number of players
- Flexible party system (different players in different party, with no party by default unless the player join one)
- Flexible DM system

For crafting the world, the MMO/sandbox system and all the other stuff, we can do that ourself.
Posted By: Nyanko

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/10/15 02:52 PM

I think the GM mode will be simulating pnp campaigns like no game has ever allowed before. It will be the real successor to the Aurora toolset.

When I see how DOS came from after it started as early access and now what they have done with the enhanced edition, I have no doubt it will be awesome.

The pre-alpha build they showed during the kickstarter campaign is gorgeous and with 15 months of more production ahead, nothing is impossible, especially with such an epic kickstarter final!
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/10/15 03:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Caerbanog

I eared somewhere that Divinity accept local turn by turn, i.e. players away from the combat are not in turn by turn.


You heard? As in, you haven't played D:OS 1 yourself? I mean, what you heard is true, but if you haven't actually played D:OS yourself, you might be carrying in some assumptions about the game which can lead you to make some incorrect assumptions.

Without modding, D:OS has no day/night cycles, NPC schedules, no enemy respawning, no resource respawning. I'm not sure that there will be enough things to do in the world to keep player interest without pretty frequent content injections by the GM.

The hard limit on players is an engine limitation, I believe. I don't think it can handle more than maybe eight or so players at the absolute most, and there is only one party. You don't have to stay with the party, but all PC's portraits will be on the screen, so there isn't really such a thing as two different parties, never mind enough players to require more than one GM.

There are resurrection scrolls in D:OS so a dead player can be brought back.

If you haven't played D:OS, you really should play it to get an idea of what it's like to adjust your expectations.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/10/15 09:16 AM

As a newbie to the forums, I'll introduce myself as someone who is a massive fan of D:OS and a backer of D:OS2... I hope you like my suggestions.

I really see the GM mode -- as many others here have described it -- as an enhanced version of P&P RPGS like D&D.

I'm personally not very interested with the idea of persistent worlds, or deep modding of monsters, skills (ie custom skills), etc. I feel that these are pretty cool ideas, but entirely unrelated to the idea of a "GM mode". That said, it'd be awesome to be able to include any modded items, skills, NPCs, creatures, etc that are created by the modding community while in GM mode. However, for the most part I think the mechanics built into D:OS2 will be plenty versatile.

I feel the key focus of the GM mode is to be able to create a story in as close to real-time as possible. I like the idea of controlling enemies in a battle, but for the most part I'd prefer to trust the AI and move elsewhere to ensure the next part is prepared. I'm sure the AI for D:OS2 will be be pretty cool.

Essentially, I feel that GMs should be able to drop-in and drop-out of combat -- either letting the AI control it or not. By the same token, I feel that the GM should be able to drop-in and drop-out of NPC dialogue. Even if a dialogue has been pre-made, he should be able to intervene at any stage. Also, maybe half way through combat one of the enemies wants to beg for his life, or offer the player a chance to surrender?

Anyway, the whole point of having a GM in a P&P game is that a GM is able to react intelligently and dynamically to the players. This is different from just playing a board game where the rules are clearly set, and everyone is restricted enough so that their actions all have clear and explicit effects. In P&P, it's hard to predict EVERY single possible scenario beforehand, but with enough preparation and creativity it's possible to react quickly.

We already have the suggestion about Procedural Generation. I couldn't find this explained in this thread, but my understanding is that this is a tool to help with quickly building maps in a pseudorandom way. In my experience, some of the Heroes of Might & Magic games had good "random map" generators, where you could set a few conditions, and it would generate a playable map. I wouldn't have to agonise over every little detail (am I giving this player too much stuff?), and so I could invest more time on the "big picture" of designing what I wanted to design. It would be awesome to have the ability to use this kind of tool to generate entire maps, maybe making a forest, and then decide to place a generated town of a friendly faction, maybe place a town of an unfriendly faction (eg orcs) somewhere else -- with a suite of minor NPCs already included. Hopefully, I could choose the size of the town, generate a building to drop in somewhere, and then add a few NPCs.

This actually leads into another idea I have:
Territories and Factions As part of planning the story, I would need to think about the politics. An example of factions in D:OS is the orcs (faction) who are fighting with Cyseal (faction). Immaculates would be yet another faction.

But factions wouldn't only be limited to only cover sentient creatures. For example, if there is a scary forest full of giant spiders, you could create a faction of giant spiders, set the kinds of creatures that fall within that faction, and then zone the forest as the territory of faction of giant spiders, and can generate spider encounters within that territory.

The factions would help to determine how the AI would react when an a Cyseal soldier meets an orc, or when an orc meets a giant spider.

So I would like to be able to design factions and map out territories. Ideally, I would be able to design what kinds of NPCs/creatures typically fit within that faction, what kinds of classes and equipment they would tend to have, what kind of "towns" they inhabit (eg the style of a human town is very different from a bandit camp which is very different from an orc town) and how they would react to other factions.

This is the main kind of modding I'd be keen for in a GM mode.

Further to the earlier idea that the GM should have freedom of movement, and be able to let the AI handle itself sometimes, I also feel that we should be able to keep track of the players while we're distracted on other things. We wouldn't want the entire party to be wiped out simply because we're not constantly watching them, or for them to do something stupid like attacking a guard in a town, where suddenly the AI doesn't know how to react. There should be some kind of Player Tracking. Possibly some kind of a split screen?

Finally, the GM needs to be able to quickly Pause the Entire Game -- even if the players can't -- for those times when he really needs a minute to get things ready.
Posted By: Volsungh

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/10/15 09:57 AM

What I expect from this GM mode is the possibility to use it even as a solo player, because some people are solo players and still they should have a chance to use the function of the final stretch goal. Having the opportunity to set up a whole dungeon filled with packs of monsters and being able to play through it afterward.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/10/15 12:41 PM

I think your hopes are set too high, Ayvah.

A video game GM by definition will never have the freedom and flexibility available to a pen and paper GM, not with today's technology anyway.

Someone might have made the suggestion of procedural generation, but I don't believe that Larian has the tools or resources (time and money) that can make the code which will create a procedural generated D:OS map - at least not one which has a sensible layout and interesting features. Procedural generation is difficult to get right, and if they wanted such generation to produce maps with the kind of quality that goes into the hand-crafted maps, they'd have to murder the rest of the game in order to get the funds and time.

Factions already exist in the game at least.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/10/15 01:17 AM

I certainly do not expect GM mode to be anywhere near as flexible as a real P&P game.

However, I feel the most important part of the experience of having a GM is the flexibility of the storytelling. Flexibility of actions is less important. That is, I feel it's not important that GMs are able to improvise a mechanic like climbing a wall or jumping through a window. But if it's appropriate for a character to react in a certain way during a conversation, then the role of the GM would ideally be to facilitate that conversation, and enable the story that unfolds.

Procedural generation is something above and beyond that, however, and it acknowledges that GMs are likely to be very much amateurs. I expect we would have a ratio of 1 GM for up to 4 players, so potential GMs (like myself) lack the talent or skill we might expect from "modders" who are releasing their mods to much larger audiences.

I'll leave it up to the developers to work out what is practical from the perspective of budget and development time. Procedural generation doesn't have to live up to the expectation of being as good as handcrafted maps. Even if it only gets you halfway there, then that's half of the work done already. The ideal is to minimise the amount of micromanagement a GM has to do to get something functional, while giving them as much control over the results as they need.

There are modest versions of procedural generation. One is improving the terrain "painting". For example, I could paint a forest of trees over a particular area, and the engine would select individual (and varied) trees to place in that zone, instead of forcing me to individually select and place every single tree. The game could generate suggested names for NPCs, stock for merchants, etc. The game already has random loot, and I expect we'll be able to generate random encounters. These are all small parts of this picture that I don't always want to micromanage.

Procedural generation is something that works best when it's part of the design from the beginning, because if the tool is good, then Larian would be able to use it themselves when making the game. Procedural generation is already part of the game. I just really want to emphasise my view that "more is better".

I do feel that procedural generation has a lot of potential to be a key component of the GM experience.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/10/15 01:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Volsungh
What I expect from this GM mode is the possibility to use it even as a solo player, because some people are solo players and still they should have a chance to use the function of the final stretch goal. Having the opportunity to set up a whole dungeon filled with packs of monsters and being able to play through it afterward.

I think GM mode is inherently a multiplayer mode.

However, I think that the sliding scale of expertise for using modding tools looks like this:
Professionals/Developers > Modders > GMs.

I think GMs will need certain improvements from the modding tool that will help you to get the result you want, even though I imagine it is outside of the scope of the GM mode itself.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/10/15 04:34 AM

It isn't that you couldn't do a dungeon yourself after modifying it in GM mode (afterall, sometimes you will want to test a dungeon)...

It is that making things for you to try out in single player is better left to the normal editor.

GM Mode is more about the ability to change and control things on the fly during an actual game.
Posted By: HolmstN

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/10/15 12:56 AM

Quote:
I think your hopes are set too high, Ayvah.


I'd say the point of a thread like this is to dream big. While those ideas might not be implemented, if we don't dream big than the developers may not know what we MOST want. Even if those are impossible creations, they can use that to guide the mode's creation.

I like the procedural generation model Ayvah has put forward. It's still a far reach, surely, but if GM mode is to be accessible AND creative, custom and easy map creation would be a huge plus. I'd rather other resources take priority, surely, but if it was something they had time for... great.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/10/15 01:35 AM

Here's a competing game which has a DM feature, most will play it real-time and people will complain it is too shallow. However this link is a group of players and DM taking their time. So what is looked at as shallow, gains depth based on style of play. Not necessarily my style, but if players have patience a DM can add a lot.

Start at 15:00 mark.

http://www.twitch.tv/jakonian/v/21900929


Posted By: Nyanko

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/10/15 03:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Horrorscope
Here's a competing game which has a DM feature, most will play it real-time and people will complain it is too shallow. However this link is a group of players and DM taking their time. So what is looked at as shallow, gains depth based on style of play. Not necessarily my style, but if players have patience a DM can add a lot.

Start at 15:00 mark.

http://www.twitch.tv/jakonian/v/21900929




I preordered this game and then after playing all the headstarts, I asked for a refund. I like creating scenarios but this game lacks all the basic tools you would need to do it properly.

So I do hope Larian is gonna make it much better. And I know they will actually.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 24/10/15 02:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Nyanko
I preordered this game and then after playing all the headstarts, I asked for a refund. I like creating scenarios but this game lacks all the basic tools you would need to do it properly.

So I do hope Larian is gonna make it much better. And I know they will actually.


Love me my D:OS, but I can't say that with certainty. What are some good meaty modules made with their mod tools for D:OS? It never really happened. I think one can argue while SCL's tools have more limits, it will be easier to create content and share it. I think you'll also see some patches to help with the basics that are needed. D:OS mod tools aren't in development that I know of, that is done, it is what it is and that didn't happen.

This is a little hard hitting but fair. I sort of feel DM/GM is a trap in which I hope they are accurate in articulating what it will and won't do. Fans will have wild expectations that most likely won't happen. I'd say tread conservatively.

Watching some streams of SCL, I still like the idea of the DM taking an aggressive playing role, it is more natural for video game flow of getting all involved with some action. However the above link shows that if everyone is patient, you can have a role playing experience, it is slow and imo a very limited audience, albeit a loud audience.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 24/10/15 12:27 PM

Originally Posted By: HolmstN
Quote:
I think your hopes are set too high, Ayvah.


I'd say the point of a thread like this is to dream big. While those ideas might not be implemented, if we don't dream big than the developers may not know what we MOST want. Even if those are impossible creations, they can use that to guide the mode's creation.

I like the procedural generation model Ayvah has put forward. It's still a far reach, surely, but if GM mode is to be accessible AND creative, custom and easy map creation would be a huge plus. I'd rather other resources take priority, surely, but if it was something they had time for... great.


There's nothing wrong with dreaming big. But my concern is that Larian's reach often exceeds its grasp, and the final product inevitably falls short.

That might be a problem with all game development in general. But those other games are developed behind closed doors, whereas Kickstarter puts the lofty ideas of developers up front with stretch goals and makes promises that if they get X dollars, they can definitely put feature X in. And Kickstarter is so new that people haven't developed the necessary jade-coloured goggles to make them temper their expectations.

So no, I will NOT stop suggesting to people that their ideas might be too ambitious, and that they should temper their expectations to something vaguely realistic.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/10/15 05:07 AM

I am pretty sceptical with Kickstarter. There are two reasons why I contributed to D:OS2:
* D:OS was awesome, so I know I'll buy the sequel anyway
* D:OS was awesome, so even if D:OS2 crashes and burns, I feel they earned my money.

I look forward to when Larian are able to announce details of what will be featured in the GM mode. I'm confident my suggestions are absolutely achievable, but I understand that we can't always have every dream come true.

Some of these changes suggested for modding/GM mode essentially involve improving the D:OS engine. I feel the biggest risk is the potential for delaying the development of the rest of the game while they work on the engine (especially if they end up having employees stuck between projects).
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 26/10/15 12:03 AM

Then again Ayvah one of the biggest reasons for even bothering with the funding is for them to take the risk to make a good DM mode.

It is a weird thing whenever I bump into the opinion that the stretch goals should "not interfere with the development" because it goes against the idea of stretch goals altogether... Which is putting the game into more development so that the final product is even better.

If people don't want a delayed game they shouldn't endorse stretch goals at all.
Posted By: talls

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 27/10/15 04:02 AM

Originally Posted By: xxswatelitexx
The way I see the only way GM mode ever becoming popular is it has to be simple and intuitive. While being flexible when necessary.

I imagine DM mode divided into two separate operating modes.

Preparation Mode:
Live Mode:

The Preparation mode is essentially a simplified version of the editor. It lets you build the map, create factions, and faction associations ( which groups are allies, which groups are enemies, etc ) It also lets you create two types of units. Profile based units, which creates units randomly based on a set of parameters. Unique units which look exactly as set by the creator.

The 2nd part of preparation mode are premade scripts. Something like a merchant script - soldier script, archer script etc. Essentially Ai packages which can either be from Larian or custom made. So when you place a unit in live mode, you can just assign the package to the unit and they will act accordingly based on that package.

Finally when you finish "preparing" you save it as a package file and the package file is loaded when you host and gets "distributed" to the clients. This package contains the map \ unique scripts \ and other custom assets.

When the game is in motion you have "Live Mode"
Live mode would essentially be like a control station of sorts.

Lighting \ Weather Button - This changes the light to dark \ dusk \ noon \ night. Which lets you set the mood for the area.

An object button - which lets you drop objects. Clicking on the object lets you move it around and rotate it. Right clicking on the object lets you set the object as a container \ trap \ etc. Lets you set the weight of the object as well as health and description.

Then an NPC button which lets you choose from the prefabricated characters you made in preperation mode, either a unique character or profile based character.

Finally by clicking on the character you can order it to do things such as; sit, move, run, interact with "x" object. Or if you have a custom script, it will run that.

Also there are 2 types of dialogs.
1. Pre fabricated dialogs created in preperation mode. For example gate gaurd etc.

2. Live Dialogs which opens a some what of a chat window with the avatar [ 3d ] of the character appearing next to each statement the character makes. Where the DM can also activate a manual Dice Roll or rock paper scissors match with player.

==
I think by keeping Live mode simple - it will allow much flexibility for more users. While making sure the DM's are constantly being engaged. Especially since you forcibly split preparation mode to an offline event where the DM has to first prepare everything in advance, instead of forcing players to wait for the DM to set the stage.

You read my mind! This would be my dream! My current wish is all of this and then I would RP over voice chat with my crew.
Posted By: Flamerion

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 27/10/15 06:39 PM

I understand this is turned base game, but will there be anyway for GM mode to make it that everyone take turn at the same time? Still good then bad turn base but no movements until all goodies and baddies decided their move
Posted By: talls

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 28/10/15 04:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Flamerion
I understand this is turned base game, but will there be anyway for GM mode to make it that everyone take turn at the same time? Still good then bad turn base but no movements until all goodies and baddies decided their move


There is a game coming out (forgot the name) that uses simultaneous turns like you are suggesting. However I think it simply wouldn't work very well with this game as it is. The core mechanics of the game would need to change. You would have all sorts of random stuff going on. AOE's that hit nobody, melee characters would lose their action points because their target moved too far away, it would just require a major overhaul to work.
Posted By: talls

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 28/10/15 04:36 AM

Originally Posted By: Raith
Legends of the Sword coast doesn't have a good DM mode worth emulating. It is a bizarre annoying thing that isn't conducive to a fun PnP style experience.
NWN however does.

A DM mode isn't the place for a bizarre competitive round robin mode, it should be attempting to emulate table top as much as possible, and through that desire the DM should have as much power and ability to change things as possible, the more editor functions they have access to in game (not to mention console commands) the better it will be.

"But Raith, building a big detailed area in game would be time consuming, what about that?"
That's why you should be prepared and have the major areas built if not populated in the editor before even loading it up for your group little one. Simple, no?

"But a DM should have a skill tree and gain levels and stuff to get more crap to do in the game!"
Why? The DM isn't in competition with the players, he is facilitating their story and game, now if this story kills them oh well but that isn't a success for the DM, it is simply the way it played out.

But if the DM can do anything from the start, what's to stop him from winning?
...The DM isn't in competition with the players, and if you have a DM (or you are that DM) that think that killing the party is "winning" then you shouldn't play with him/shouldn't be DM.

"DMs should be able to control the monsters directly to fight the party!"
I'm not against this, but it shouldn't be mandatory because personally I would be using that time gained in battle setting up the next area if it needed it.


Totally agree with this. As a P&P DM I believe it is the DMs job to facilitate the story. I think the true focus should be on giving DMs the tools to make a fun adventure. Dropping in items/npcs/monster at will, changing the weather on the fly, buffs and debuffs, etc.

It would be great for DMs to be able to make custom lists of enemy groups so they can drop them ahead of the party without needing to hand pick every enemy to place in each spot. You could even have CR type system where the DM picks the difficulty of the desired "mob" and the game spits out a grouping based on the list you made and the challenge level desired.

Also, something that I haven't seen mentioned yet...
I would REALLY like for DM mode not to force the DM to write all of this dialogue beforehand for the NPCs to interact with the players. I would like to see a system that is user-friendly with groups that would roleplay out their adventure over voice chat.

Ideally, you could handle skill checks in a live setting as such... (again, all of the chat is via voice chat)

NPC Guard (DM): "hold up there, what's the hurry? you aren't allowed in there!"
Player 1: "Oh, didn't they tell you? I'm supposed to be inspecting the grounds today..."

It would be great in this situation to allow Player 1 to just make a bluff/lie check vs. the npcs opposing skill. If successful, the appropriate rolplaying is done, and the DM clicks the gate to be unlocked and they are on with the story!
Posted By: Barry Wom

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/11/15 05:18 AM

Yes. Agreed. As far as a live GM mode goes, maximum freedom and power to the GMs -start there. A group of participants who fully trust each other should be the target audience for GM mode development. The bar set at the highest level so to speak.

IF, that is IF the developers wanted to appeal to varied styles of game play in live GM mode, the following approach could also be considered-

For the players and GMs who aren't familiar with each other's style of game play, have those folks be able to seek games or events with other GM permissions.

Don't want the GM to be able to flat out kill your character? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to help you? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to etc.? Join a game where that is toggled off.

This approach, default maximum GM power, will most fully utilize the scariest, most exciting and versatile tools of role playing -the brains of the participants.

Sword Coast Legends either missed or misjudged the default max GM power approach, and are now in the process of trying to add more DM/player freedom. It'll be interesting to see how the SCL and D:0S II GM modes shape up.

Nothing quite gets your attention like a human (GM) being able to call the shots in a live computer game. The ultimate "game mechanic" -a live GM. Start there and I believe, everything else naturally follows making this the best live GM mode it can possibly be.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/11/15 04:08 PM

"Don't want the GM to be able to flat out kill your character? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to help you? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to etc.? Join a game where that is toggled off."

Why would any of this matter? This is someone GMing a game you are in, your character is for their game.
Posted By: dougbrid

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/11/15 03:35 PM

[quote]In NwN, some of these worlds live since ten years, with player connected several times by week. But now, NwN start to becoming really old and a little wearying, so you can understand the hype in the NwN community with the DM mode of D:OS2 :'D [/quote]

I can confirm ! It's a little dream for some player of this community, even if they don't play now.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/11/15 08:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Neonivek
"Don't want the GM to be able to flat out kill your character? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to help you? Join a game where that is toggled off.
Don't want the GM to be able to etc.? Join a game where that is toggled off."

Why would any of this matter? This is someone GMing a game you are in, your character is for their game.

I agree. If you join a game with a GM who has terrible ability or is a troll, having a couple flags like this are going to be meaningless.

Imagine a troll joins a random session as a player and immediately starts killing everything in sight.

We just can't force good behaviour with mechanics like this. A rating system might work, or even just some kind of forum where you can meet people. I think the latter is preferable, because roleplaying is generally a commitment you make for more than just one afternoon.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/11/15 08:39 PM

Originally Posted By: dougbrid
Quote:
In NwN, some of these worlds live since ten years, with player connected several times by week. But now, NwN start to becoming really old and a little wearying, so you can understand the hype in the NwN community with the DM mode of D:OS2 :'D


I can confirm ! It's a little dream for some player of this community, even if they don't play now.

I have to admit, I was never that into NWN. This seems to me like a niche that is already trying to be filled by MMORPGs with dedicated roleplaying servers.

What are you hoping for with D:OS2's GM mode that would be different/better than those MMOs?
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/11/15 10:19 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah

What are you hoping for with D:OS2's GM mode that would be different/better than those MMOs?


Reactivity, social environment, creativity, input, changing the game itself...
Posted By: norD

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/11/15 03:07 PM

Ok. I came back from vacation and the forum exploded of suggestions.
I'll have a read at everything! ^_^
Posted By: morez

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/11/15 11:29 PM

Originally Posted By: norD
Ok. I came back from vacation and the forum exploded of suggestions.
I'll have a read at everything! ^_^


well, i came home from vacation and in the meanwhile DOS2 was announced, kickstarting already over and the new guy who kindly cares about the community, asks for suggestions and gives dev comments is on vacation ouch


Originally Posted By: Neonivek
Originally Posted By: Ayvah

What are you hoping for with D:OS2's GM mode that would be different/better than those MMOs?


Reactivity, social environment, creativity, input, changing the game itself...


a decentralized playing environment. GM Mode means no competition but control of your possibilites, ideas. A set of playful tools to create the meaningful magic circle of the game, not being restricted by the magic circle of the players' perspective game
Posted By: Rafoca

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/01/16 04:44 PM

OMG! A DM mode would be awesome!

I really wish to see this implemented on the console versions too!
Posted By: Poptart

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/01/16 02:55 PM

Fascinating discussion!

I disagree with those who would make the DM mode somehow just a different player mode, like a god mode, or some buff gained in a round robin.

I agree wholeheartedly with Raith and Ayvah and the others who see a D:OS2 GM toolkit as a creative tool. It should be a way to create online adventures in the way a tabletop DM does for the P&P experience.

However, I don't think that we're talking about one tool. We'll really talking about two different tools, because if we P&P folks want a GM tool that does what the P&P DM does, that's really two *different* tasks.

For the pencil and paper DM, the first task is the preparation ahead of time: creating the environment. This creative task involves drawing maps, designing encounters and traps, and developing NPCs stats and personality.

On game night, the DM has the second task. On game night it is the PnP DM's job to make it all come alive, through descriptions of the world, taking on the role of NPCs, administering game mechanics, and making real-time decisions about how NPCs and monsters react to the player's decisions.

So the the ideal D:OS2 GM tool (IGMT?) should permit the DM to accomplish both tasks.

For the first DM task, the creative planning and preparation task, the IGMT would permit environment creation to be swift, yet provide a great deal of depth. Ideally, for as many ways as there are to describe a 10x10 room with two orcs in it, so should there be ways in the IGMT to model it. For planning and prep, the creation tool should allow for a near-infinite way for GMs to realize their creative vision of their game world. The IGMT should intuitive to use, permit the import of customized content, and permit pre-scripting of encounters with NPCs and enemies.

If the planning goes as the GM intends, game night should be almost entirely hands-off for the GM.

On game night itself, the second tool should be an in-game GM mode -- the 'live' version of the prep/planning IGMT. The level of flexibility -- as well as what is technically possible -- here is debatable. IMHO, the GM needs to at least have the "mind control" ability to take over and play any NPC and monster, to provide depth to the NPC experiences as well as intelligent and unpredictable responses to opponents in combat.

As far as how much the GM can change the environment and game state, or the outcomes of the RNG on-the-fly -- well, more flexibility is better, but I am not sure what the technical limitations are. If I decide to suddenly put a waterfall in the game, do players have to wait while the model downloads and updates on their client? It may be that flexibility may come at a cost in immersion and stability, but I might be wrong about that.

The ideal D:OS2 GM tool would allow the computer to do what the computer does well, and permit the human to do what the human does well, allowing a synergy that combines to bring a play experience unmatched by any current game: the richness, variation, unpredictability and depth of a human-mediated game, allied to the accessibility, speed, visual pleasure and ease of a computer run game.
Posted By: Xen

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 14/01/16 05:18 AM

I think they should call it Divinity Master (ie DM) mode :D

I also think a DM mode should be a top priority update along with:
* allowing more than 2 players to join (one roll20 game I play has 8 players for our DM)
* integrating audio communication in game (player either pushes button to talk, or if detected microphone threshold passed it auto activates, like teamspeak - the players avatar then has an exclamation mark overhead while talking).
* allowing the DM to have NPC avatars that don't need scripting since they can do the talking for them (and thus the DM doesn't need much scripting knowledge)
* the DM should also be able to manually set each individual NPC as auto combat or be DM controlled combat, on a turn-by-turn basis.

This could be the best computer based 'Desktop' RPG ever with such modifications, but the trick is to ensure it has an easy basic construction interface for the DM (which would also be easier to code). I myself look forward to crafting beautiful virtual landscapes for players to explore, without having to learn an extensive NPC scripting interface :)
Posted By: Poptart

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 14/01/16 12:08 PM

Originally Posted By: Xen
I think they should call it Divinity Master (ie DM) mode laugh



Win. =)
Posted By: norD

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 14/01/16 05:37 PM

Yeah, Divinity Master has been brought up a lot of time, haha.

By the way, sorry guys, I'm not posting that much (like not at all), you know, busy doing the game.
Also, the whole GM mode has been taken cared of by our Russian team like Swen twitted about a few weeks ago.
But don't worry, they read what is here so don't stop posting stuff!
Posted By: Xen

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/01/16 05:00 AM

After more thought, I think DM mode could also fulfil an on the fly debugging option. This would make it great as a play testing tool for full automated mod makers. It would also enable the DM to learn the editor tools necessary without having to learn all the tools at once to get value from it. IMHO the following are the only essential requirements:
- Procedural generation that can be saved and modified for future use (this should be a standard feature of the editor anyway, even minecraft can do this and it makes world building so much faster and easier; also encompasses Preplan and save an area option)
- Territories and factions (Ayvah's page 4 of this forum suggestion) is also a good idea for the game in general; I suspect the factions are being implemented as races for DOS 2, but should be generalised (e.g. Immaculates Vs followers of the seven).
- DM playing monsters OR AI controlled (depending what the DM wants to do, changeable on the fly and specific to each NPC)
- Alter NPC attitudes on the fly; NPCs have a different attitude level for each character, the initial value being determined by faction/race relations between the NPC and PC, but alterable by DM.
- Initiate/end fights on the fly
- Add/Remove enemies, traps and such on the fly
- Permadeath/new character option (this means DM should be able to arbitrarily give XP bonus/penalty to PCs whenever they want)
- Chat channels (particularly private chat where DM can single out player subset of 1 or more). Having in game audio channels would be cool, but teamspeak etc can fulfil that requirement. However a whisper [text] feature is essential, perhaps only available when PC/PC or PC/NPC are next to each other in game smile

4 players and 1 DM should be more than enough, but capping at default 8 players makes sense - even the AI takes several seconds per NPC per turn, and a DM controlled NPC will take longer. With 1 character per player, such delays will start becoming noticeable if there are too many characters in a fight; there's a good reason most desktop rpg groups have 3-5 players.
Posted By: morez

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 22/01/16 09:22 PM

In my earlier posts I was outing myself as NWN2 fanboy and couldnt stop to promote this game as an idea giver.

Now i got hands on Sword Coast Legends (SCL) and this game definately is much uglier than DOS and it's Editor compared to NWN and DOS is a restricted joke (which feels more like a solid one piece of plastic toy rather than lego) and somehow also the DM mode is restricted.

BUT ... i think you could misunderstand it's intention. After having a short session with old PnP friends i had to say the DM Mode is incredible dynamic and feeling live.

I was really impressed that I could use placeables in a live session to broom away PCs and NPCs. Something NWN e.g. never ever was capable of. I can create NPCs with all char generation functionality, quests placeable objects (and destroy them like a roadblock), areas (well just generated), weather and everything on the fly. LIVE.

As you can't create anything really in the Editor mode anyway it does give you the opportunity to gamemaster without any preparation time. This old group of mine doesnt have one single person that could dedicate beside the job and kids and so on hours of work just to prepare a module to play with.

In our first session without any real knowledge about the game and enginge i could do amazing freestlye stuff by really reacting on the players. They wanted to go to that cave over there which location they found out in a freestyle NPC (voice chat) conversation and there we go I generated a dungeon made some custom NPCs based on our in house running gags and we had a lot of fun.

NWN made me tinkering and messing around if not temporarily even geeking out but to be honest I never managed to create something playable for some friends of mine which I was gamemastering.

Please don't make it like SCL, but please please please look at the parts it really got right!
Add a import export function to pretty any asset, location, NPC/ Monster, rules and good DMs who are bad builders will shine!

my 2 cents
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/01/16 08:30 PM

Originally Posted By: morez

NWN made me tinkering and messing around if not temporarily even geeking out but to be honest I never managed to create something playable for some friends of mine which I was gamemastering.

Please don't make it like SCL, but please please please look at the parts it really got right!

My interpretation is that this is essentially the point.

The DOS:2 EDITOR ideally provides the depth I believe you've enjoyed NWN.

Whereas the GM mode is more entry-level tool that also requires less preparation. I'm hoping it will still be reasonably deep.
Posted By: morez

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/01/16 12:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah
Originally Posted By: morez

NWN made me tinkering and messing around if not temporarily even geeking out but to be honest I never managed to create something playable for some friends of mine which I was gamemastering.

Please don't make it like SCL, but please please please look at the parts it really got right!

My interpretation is that this is essentially the point.

The DOS:2 EDITOR ideally provides the depth I believe you've enjoyed NWN.

Whereas the GM mode is more entry-level tool that also requires less preparation. I'm hoping it will still be reasonably deep.


My point was that SCL Editor and GM Mode is almost the same thing. That means the Editor is pretty weak but the GM Mode while lacking a lot of functionality (e.g. GM has no possibility to inspect player characters and so on) is engine wise really strong because it is basically an Editor but in an live playing environment. See my example of "brooming away" characters with placeables, which i find really impressive!

I really don't know if the Divinity Engine has the possible capacity for "live building" (well terrain building seems pretty unpossible anyway but placing objects). I the Divinity Editor you have to switch to playtesting modus where you can steer characters but you loose the power to place stuff.

We will see once it's done. Just wanted to point out the possible horsepower of certain aspects of a GM Mode which includes a lot Editor functionality!
Posted By: gGeo

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/01/16 01:44 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah

DOS:2 EDITOR[/url] ideally provides the depth I believe you've enjoyed NWN.

Whereas the GM mode is more entry-level tool that also requires less preparation. I'm hoping it will still be reasonably deep.

NWN has pretty strong editor and GM mode.
Those two functionalities are completely different.
Different tools, different UI, for different type of user.

GM interface could alter current game, could add placable like a tree or a treasure chest. Or direct control a creature. Changes in the world made by GM interafce are temporary.

By Editor you can program or set each and every element or setting. You can attach a script to any event of any object. Changes made here are permanent.

However, good controlling GM interface require a skill. Diference between two GMs in NWN was HUGE depend their skils. Also, when you get skilled in NWN editor you could be lost as GM. Different things. I hope that Larians take NWN and play game/editor/GM for weeks to learn.
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/01/16 09:12 AM

I'm getting a bit confused about the points you two are making at the moment, probably due to my lack of experience with SCL and the online/modding component of NWN.
Posted By: Ext3h

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/02/16 12:49 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah
Finally, the GM needs to be able to quickly Pause the Entire Game -- even if the players can't -- for those times when he really needs a minute to get things ready.

Please also exposed as a trigger in the script API. Sometimes I do want some time to inspect how well my munchkins are doing, before deciding how difficult to make the next area.

E.g. I place a door, add the "pause" trigger, and then I can decide in time if I want to adjust what's behind the door.


As for procedural generation: Its a must have for the map editor, that's for sure.
But I also expect it in other places, e.g. loot distribution, random character generation and other roles where you need something dynamically generated during a live game session.

One fundamental condition though: I still want to choose as a GM which of the autogenerated elements I want to pick, and, if I want to customize it further prior to spawning it.

This goes hand in hand with the "pause" function - whenever the game would handle something via trigger in a fully scripted campaign, respectively would roll something (outside of the combat system), I want the option to intercept and choose what should happen next.

As for map generation:
The ability to pre-generate modules for boss areas, cities and alike where customized NPCs or key elements of the story take place is certainly required. But on-the-fly generation of tiny dungeon modules, house interiors and alike isn't less important - and once again with the same prerequisite that the GM can choose or force a re-roll if he isn't happy with the generated module, as well as the option to pause the game to make some final preparations. This effectively allows large, vivid cities without blocked off areas, without the need for the GM to plan everything in detail ahead.

Effectively, I'm not even sure if you need to generate every single house interior on map generation for GM mode - leaving the areas "blank" with on-the-fly generation of interiors and alike is sufficient if the players are not going to break into every single house. Unlike single-player, where you always have those annoying users who try to glitch into every single single off-limits area, inevitably encountering "empty" regions. In GM mode, you could leave an area (explicitly) unmodeled, and patch in procedural content if required. The game engine would need to track these areas by shape, and would require the ability to give a preview without actually distributing the submodule yet.


As for live control of players and NPCs: Yes, it's necessary. But it shouldn't be the default. Generally, the GM shouldn't be locked into the same timeframe as the players, as his primary role is to ensure that world around the players remains vivid and responsive, while the players are kept busy in encounters.

I'm not yet sure how to deal with players who want to use the environment or act more RP like - especially beyond the engines capabilities. Allow the GM to trigger arbitrary effects on behalf of a player action? Essentially a "powerplay" skill button which hands control over to the GM to resolve the effects?
Posted By: Killertofu

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/02/16 05:34 AM

I'd appreciate an optional tutorial that handholds you through the systems by having you create a scenario. This scenario will be the same for everyone, but should go over the systems in depth.

Not sure of the features yet, but here is an example,
"Welcome to the GM Mode Tutorial! GM Mode is a powerful tool that can be used to build scenarios for your friends and possibly others to enjoy. Look at how empty your world is. Literally nothing is here. Let's fix that! First, click here(an arrow pops up showing you where to click) to open the "Map Building" options. *Player Clicks* Here, you will find a vast variety of tools to help build your map. Now click on the "Flooring" tab(an arrow pops up showing you where to click). *Player Clicks* For starters, let's use the "Grassland"(an arrow pops up showing you where to click) texture to create our flooring. *Player Clicks* Ok, now click and drag your mouse to create some flooring. Let's start with a 20x20 square lot. *Player makes the correct size lot* Ok, now lets add a building. Now, click on the "Buidlings" tab(an arrow pops up showing you where to click) *Player clicks* Let's add a cabin to our grassland(an arrow pops up showing you where to click)*Player clicks*. Now place the cabin in the center of the lot(I imagine there is a green outline(red if you can't place it there) that shows you how much room the cabin will take up). *Player clicks to place cabin* Good, now lets add an NPC. First, exit out of "Map Building"(an arrow pops up showing you where to click) *Player clicks* Now click on "NPC Creator"(an arrow pops up showing you where to click)*Player clicks* This is where you can create your own non-playable characters, or NPC for short. But let's use one of the pre-made characters for now(an arrow pops up showing you where to click).*Player clicks*


... and so on until you have completed your very own scenario.
Posted By: termathor

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/02/16 02:01 PM

Hi there,

Reading through this thread, I understand there are many NWN nostalgists, like myself.

I believe the NWN system (itself based on P&P) should be the inspiration:
1- prepare the game (design, draw, put-up NPCs, encounters, write dialogs, script if needed (this part should be user-friendly, which is a challenge))
2- play as DM, during multi-player: summon, change small part of the environment (and, NO, sorry, you don't change the maps at this time, nor do you design monsters or NPCs !), move a (invisible to players) DM avatar to plan encounters/traps/events changes ahead of time, control NPCs/monsters. An OOC chat system would be nice (allows the occasionnal AFAIK), like NWN's.

I think the system has to support the fact the DM is also a player. That means he's not gonna play every single NPCs/monster, except if he really wanted it this way ! Ideally, it should even be possible to spectate only, if all events are well done.

Last I recall, NWN fell a bit short in the DM arena, as the DM client was cumbersome hence some DM modders had created some magic wands (one for summoning, one for changing placeables etc ...) that would concentrate all DM's powers in the quick inventory, which would eliminate the need to go at length through menus to animate the game. I think this was an excellent idea.

Some quick ideas on top of my mind:
- quick jump to players' party button, for when you were busy somewhere changing en encounter, and want to move ASAP to the party
- quick access to player's stats, skills and inventory. Ability to change them.
- loot pools that would be randomised at open times: game would pick up one of the pool's item randomly.
- ability to save the state of the game and start again later at the same point. Not everyone has the ability to play 10 hours in a row, so I think this is important.

OK, I think this is all I can think of for now wave
Posted By: Native

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/03/16 05:46 PM

Before heading into a list, I'd just like to mention that I finally registered (after backing a long while ago) just to add a suggestion for this topic today, since it means so much to me. I've always been interested in GMing for friends and have had my most fulfilling experiences even with the thusfar lackluster games that have allowed such content in the past. As such, I've decided to separate the list into what I want, what would be nice, and what I don't care about; all in order to hopefully get at least the core of what I need to create a good time with me and my friends.

This is what I want (and thus suggest):
- The ability to control each AI monster during a combat encounter.
The tension of each turn caused by this makes me drool. It also allows me to have monsters focus attacks in ways that seem realistic, such as unintelligent monsters attacking the person threatening them as opposed to walking an extra 30 ft away to hit melee someone who is vulnerable, even if that is the stronger move. It allows me to cause monsters to take complex counters to typical player strategy such as stringing monsters out through a chokepoint or stacking the monster's spawn with placeable objects.

- The ability to clear or reset quest flags.
Often in the first game I was frustrated by the inevitable minor inconsistencies caused by important NPCs being killed or finishing things out of order. I'd like to solve these for the player after making a human, case to case decision.

- The ability to spawn new monsters manually.
Mostly for the purpose of repopulating certain areas or encounters or making them harder/easier, even understanding this might cause unbalance in either direction. There were some lackluster encounters in the first game where there were just 3 or 4 random monsters on the road with no chance of actually threatening the party. There were also some great encounters with multiple factions fighting each other at the same time in large scale combat. I want to be able to adjust to make sure we're always having fun.


This is what would be nice to have:
- Adding dialogue from the perspective of an NPC actor I'm controlling.
Very minor, but sometimes I feel like certain NPC should recognize certain achievements or things in the environment. A man who has had his house robbed by an invisible thief should complain to the guards or ask the player for an explanation.

- Adding traps/perm environmental hazards.
For the sake of balance and repopulating traps in areas where it makes sense.

- Adding environment effects that are normally temporary, such as rain or puddles or tar.
For ambience.

- Able to switch between Player and GM freely.
This is extremely minor, but would help me significantly since I only have 3 friends I'd play with. We were originally stoked to run the game with the 4 of us, but with the GM mode, I would be leaving them with a vacancy I'd like to fill with the equivalent of a GMPC.

- Creation of custom items.
This is just a fun tidbit that I don't expect will be added but would love to see.


This is what I don't care about, but seems likely to be considered:
- Map making.
- Quest scripting.
- GM limitations to protect against griefing/bad GMs.
Posted By: hmt321

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/04/16 03:37 AM

I feel like I arrived to the party kinda late.

Just found D:OS EE about a month ago and I have been hooked.

I read about the GM features, I have been thinking about the potentials this can have for the community and Larian.

I am a old school table top D&ad guy from way back (I played 2e when Regan was in office). There is a small, but growing community of tabletop gamers who play table top games on PC. Google: Roll20, Fantasy Grounds. Many of these people will jump from game system to game system to play with good GM's or well written content.

Larian has a very real optertunity to capitalize on a market desperately seeking an improving venue, WOTC dropped the ball big time with SCL. Huge let down, what could have been a great game with turn based play. Turned into a Diablo style game where i constantly felt that my party's potential was not properly utilized, either due to crap party AI, or clunky controls. I can say the same about NWN 1 and 2. The GM mode was the biggest let down. So much potential unexplored, and unexploited.

If larian can deliver a system where the DM can generate custom maps ( based on existing game graphics, or allow community submissions) With prefabricated monsters, like out of a game bestiary, or community creations. Where the GM can control the monster during combat, very important. If Larian was charging a nominal fee for campaign space, and added features (look at Roll20's model, free access to players, more bells and whistles for subscribed players, GM's). Allow the community to provide content, monsters, graphic assets, there are creative people out there with time on their hands. At the end of the day Larain could have a product that may produce an income stream for years.

People are still playing around with NWN2 editors, and persistent worlds. How many years has it been since it was released?
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 10/04/16 07:52 AM

Variant rules?

Undead having a chance of rising again after being killed, unless being disintegrated or burned (in other words, the corpse should be more or less intact). chance is set up by the GM.
Posted By: Belgrath

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/05/16 03:59 AM

Hey everyone New here this is my first post when I heard about dos2 having a gm mode I instantly hopped on board since sword coast legends has died out I'm hoping that dos2 can replace my dm hopes and it seems it can based on everyone saying that they wanted a d&d game and dos received a lot of praise so I'm hoping that the mp is actually active and flourishes

I'm assuming in gm mode you can create nps dialogue your own quest and actually play the campaign you create live with your friends with you as the gm etc a please tell me you can! ?

Basically kinda what scl tried to do but with way way way more in depth

Anyway this is the d&d campaign I hoped to make with scl and I'm hoping it can flourish and people can actually play it so tell me what you think
Prologue books

War of the immortals

Dark reign

The Necromancer wars

Main series
Dark rebirth (book I)
Eternal night (book II)
Rise of the Blood moon (book III)
Blood war (book IV)
Prophecy of destruction (book v)
Ritual of chaos (book VI)
War of Destiny (book VIII)

Book I
It's the end of the sixth age in azeroth and darkness is spreading throughout the land an ancient enemy returns and with the imperial order of mages decimated and the corruption of the ruling count of the empire it's up to your party to save azeroth from this dark threat

Your choices matter what you do affects the story

Deep lore characters you care about you are the hero of azeroth begin your journey !
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/05/16 01:23 PM

Originally Posted By: Belgrath
I'm assuming in gm mode you can create nps dialogue your own quest and actually play the campaign you create live with your friends with you as the gm etc a please tell me you can! ?

You may be assuming too much.

There have been some differences in opinion about what a GM mode should be. It's not entirely clear what Larian's vision for this will be.

My impression of Sword Coast Legends is that it wanted to turn being a GM into a game against the player. An asymmetrical battle of wits. I am hoping Larian does not emulate this.

I am hoping Larian tries to create an experience as close as possible to the established role of the GM in existing tabletop games such as D&D (ie, as a storyteller/facilitator).

Of course, I'm not in charge. Feel free to suggest any other features you'd like to see.
Posted By: Belgrath

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/05/16 06:52 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah
Originally Posted By: Belgrath
I'm assuming in gm mode you can create nps dialogue your own quest and actually play the campaign you create live with your friends with you as the gm etc a please tell me you can! ?

You may be assuming too much.

There have been some differences in opinion about what a GM mode should be. It's not entirely clear what Larian's vision for this will be.

My impression of Sword Coast Legends is that it wanted to turn being a GM into a game against the player. An asymmetrical battle of wits. I am hoping Larian does not emulate this.

I am hoping Larian tries to create an experience as close as possible to the established role of the GM in existing tabletop games such as D&D (ie, as a storyteller/facilitator).

Of course, I'm not in charge. Feel free to suggest any other features you'd like to see.


That's ultimately what I want to to tell a story in game I've made as gm while occasionally stepping in the role of fate /the God's etc to increase the challenge
Posted By: Eldarth

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 01:05 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah
My impression of Sword Coast Legends is that it wanted to turn being a GM into a game against the player. An asymmetrical battle of wits. I am hoping Larian does not emulate this.

I am hoping Larian tries to create an experience as close as possible to the established role of the GM in existing tabletop games such as D&D (ie, as a storyteller/facilitator).


Incorrect - SCL definitely tried to make (almost force) GM mode into being cooperative, storyteller/facilitator. It tried to appeal to very "beginning" GMs with no-experience and almost "hand-hold" them. It was like GM with training-wheels. You only had so much of a "threat" pool that you could "spend" creating monsters/traps on the fly so you didn't overwhelm the players.

I think it was a good attempt at trying to teach GM balance, and they also allowed GM playing without the "threat pool" training wheels if desired.

You could also "possess" any placed creature or NPC and move them, use their abilities, etc. A pretty decent GM mode actually - the core problem was the Fisher-Price "kiddie" adventure editor that handcuffed the storyteller/creator in what they were allowed to create. THAT was a huge miscalculation. Probably THE major cause of failure.
Posted By: Belgrath

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 01:27 AM

Originally Posted By: Eldarth
Originally Posted By: Ayvah
My impression of Sword Coast Legends is that it wanted to turn being a GM into a game against the player. An asymmetrical battle of wits. I am hoping Larian does not emulate this.

I am hoping Larian tries to create an experience as close as possible to the established role of the GM in existing tabletop games such as D&D (ie, as a storyteller/facilitator).


Incorrect - SCL definitely tried to make (almost force) GM mode into being cooperative, storyteller/facilitator. It tried to appeal to very "beginning" GMs with no-experience and almost "hand-hold" them. It was like GM with training-wheels. You only had so much of a "threat" pool that you could "spend" creating monsters/traps on the fly so you didn't overwhelm the players.

I think it was a good attempt at trying to teach GM balance, and they also allowed GM playing without the "threat pool" training wheels if desired.

You could also "possess" any placed creature or NPC and move them, use their abilities, etc. A pretty decent GM mode actually - the core problem was the Fisher-Price "kiddie" adventure editor that handcuffed the storyteller/creator in what they were allowed to create. THAT was a huge miscalculation. Probably THE major cause of failure.

That's what everybody said the gm mode in scl wasn't deep enough no true monster creation not enough monster variety no branching dialogue and no tile by tile creation. That is what everyone wanted and I think it needs to happen here in order for gm mode to be successful

But God's I can't wait to gm some games in this being a gm and also having the hero's being able to kill and betray echother opens up so many possible new campaign idea's
Posted By: Eldarth

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 05:20 AM

Originally Posted By: Belgrath
That's what everybody said the gm mode in scl wasn't deep enough no true monster creation not enough monster variety no branching dialogue and no tile by tile creation. That is what everyone wanted and I think it needs to happen here in order for gm mode to be successful

But God's I can't wait to gm some games in this being a gm and also having the hero's being able to kill and betray echother opens up so many possible new campaign idea's


I think part of the problem is there are two different things people need and there seems to be some overlap and confusion about them.

1. Adventure Creation/Editing - everything from terrain, lighting, triggers, events, object placement, trap placement, npc and monster creation/equipment/abilities, treasure placement, quests, dialog, etc. all done without players.
2. GM Player Interaction Mode -- realtime, monster movement/possession/ability-use/combat, buff/de-buff/kill/spawn, etc.

Part of SCLs problem was it tried to overlap the two distinct modes too much.
Hopefully DOS:2 won't try and cram both together and will support both well.
Posted By: Belgrath

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 08:33 AM

Originally Posted By: Eldarth
Originally Posted By: Belgrath
That's what everybody said the gm mode in scl wasn't deep enough no true monster creation not enough monster variety no branching dialogue and no tile by tile creation. That is what everyone wanted and I think it needs to happen here in order for gm mode to be successful

But God's I can't wait to gm some games in this being a gm and also having the hero's being able to kill and betray echother opens up so many possible new campaign idea's


I think part of the problem is there are two different things people need and there seems to be some overlap and confusion about them.

1. Adventure Creation/Editing - everything from terrain, lighting, triggers, events, object placement, trap placement, npc and monster creation/equipment/abilities, treasure placement, quests, dialog, etc. all done without players.
2. GM Player Interaction Mode -- realtime, monster movement/possession/ability-use/combat, buff/de-buff/kill/spawn, etc.

Part of SCLs problem was it tried to overlap the two distinct modes too much.
Hopefully DOS:2 won't try and cram both together and will support both well.


Do you mean first you would create your campaign then when your finished you can gm it with friends but can't edit the quest terrain etc only spawn in and posses monsters? Please elaborate
Posted By: Ayvah

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 02:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Belgrath

Do you mean first you would create your campaign then when your finished you can gm it with friends but can't edit the quest terrain etc only spawn in and posses monsters? Please elaborate


Well, yes. When I look at it though, there's actually 3 layers to this.

1. There's classic modding. This is like what you have in Skyrim or XCOM 2. In Skyrim, you find plenty of mods that improve the graphics. Also, in XCOM 2, if I want to create a new alien to play with, then this is added to the core game and any existing save games are affected. Ideally, all content-creation should be pushed to the following layers.

2. There are creation tools. This would be a bit like RPGMaker or Battle for Wesnoth. You can build-your-own campaign/module that can be shared and played without having to modify the core campaign. I think we can expect this to include creating custom creatures/equipment with custom assets. This will give you essentially full control over your own custom campaign, but you would need to create it in advance.

3. GM mode allows you to manage a gameplay session mostly in real time.

You will definitely be able to do everything you want to do. It's just not entirely clear which features will exist in which layer. For example, it's not yet clear whether you'll be able to do things like control dialogue in the GM mode or if you'll be forced to plan 100% of your dialogue in advance in the creation tools. It's also not clear how easy the creation tools will be to use for novices like myself.

But I understand it's norD's job to read your suggestions. smile
Posted By: Eldarth

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/05/16 03:44 PM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah

Well, yes. When I look at it though, there's actually 3 layers to this.

1. There's classic modding.
2. There are creation tools.
3. GM mode allows you to manage a gameplay session mostly in real time.


Yep, exactly.
1. Modding - should allow the hard-core to actual edit/create 3-D models, sounds, voice-overs, scripts, etc.

2. Adventure Creation Tools - should be easy enough for non 3-D modelers and non-scripters to create adventures that hopefully don't require a GM to moderate.

3. GM mode - needs to be easy (and powerful) enough for GMs to interact and adjust stories to the players choices. It should not need full on terrain editing, but should allow placement of "large" terrain related assets like giant boulders, or collapsed mine debris, etc. Basically easy access to any placeable "objects" including lights and sounds.
Posted By: Belgrath

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/05/16 11:52 AM

Originally Posted By: Ayvah
Originally Posted By: Belgrath

Do you mean first you would create your campaign then when your finished you can gm it with friends but can't edit the quest terrain etc only spawn in and posses monsters? Please elaborate


Well, yes. When I look at it though, there's actually 3 layers to this.

1. There's classic modding. This is like what you have in Skyrim or XCOM 2. In Skyrim, you find plenty of mods that improve the graphics. Also, in XCOM 2, if I want to create a new alien to play with, then this is added to the core game and any existing save games are affected. Ideally, all content-creation should be pushed to the following layers.

2. There are creation tools. This would be a bit like RPGMaker or Battle for Wesnoth. You can build-your-own campaign/module that can be shared and played without having to modify the core campaign. I think we can expect this to include creating custom creatures/equipment with custom assets. This will give you essentially full control over your own custom campaign, but you would need to create it in advance.

3. GM mode allows you to manage a gameplay session mostly in real time.

You will definitely be able to do everything you want to do. It's just not entirely clear which features will exist in which layer. For example, it's not yet clear whether you'll be able to do things like control dialogue in the GM mode or if you'll be forced to plan 100% of your dialogue in advance in the creation tools. It's also not clear how easy the creation tools will be to use for novices like myself.

But I understand it's norD's job to read your suggestions. smile
I'm also a novice when it comes to creation tools hope you don't need to know scripting and its just change the land to a hill add trees make a road add buildings change things about the buildings

I also hope theirs some way to create huge maps my campaign does take place on a map about roughly the size of Europe plus Russia (map scale)
So hopefully theirs a way to do that then desiegn a world map player's would see
I have big hope's and ideas for the gm mode
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/05/16 04:48 PM

Advice. The plans on whatever GM'ing will be in this game should be pretty solid since we are looking at EOY releases. Don't over sell the feature to the public, you will pay a steep price from user feedback if you do. GM'ing brings them in and everyone has their own wants and to me if a game really wants to be about GM'ing the base game should be that and then you add stories from there, official to user created stories. It would be more a GM'ing Engine Game as the base game. DOS:2 isn't coming from that angle and unless you've guys totally knocked it out of the park, it won't be what everyone wants out of GM'ing or wanted out of SCL and the games word of mouth will pay dearly for under delivering here, the NWN curse. So do not oversell this feature and be clear what it can and cannot do.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/08/16 02:31 AM

Ohh here is a suggestion

Have someone create a campaign of decent length (like... somewhat short, but make it feel like it is complete and not a demo) whether it is a developer or someone from the fanbase... and include it in the game.

Let people open it up in the GM mode and look at how it was made.

Include some creative trigger work and basics but don't blow the potential creator away with complex scripts. Better yet attach notes in it for GM mode to look at for hints, tricks, advice, and tutorials on how to use GM mode.

You don't have to follow this exactly... but a example is invaluable.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/08/16 01:51 PM

Originally Posted By: Neonivek
Ohh here is a suggestion

Have someone create a campaign of decent length (like... somewhat short, but make it feel like it is complete and not a demo) whether it is a developer or someone from the fanbase... and include it in the game.

Let people open it up in the GM mode and look at how it was made.

Include some creative trigger work and basics but don't blow the potential creator away with complex scripts. Better yet attach notes in it for GM mode to look at for hints, tricks, advice, and tutorials on how to use GM mode.

You don't have to follow this exactly... but a example is invaluable.


That's actually a good one. Like perhaps "The King of Rattsburgh", where you play the roles of exterminators out to save the town of Rattsburgh from the wicket Rat King. One small town, one small dungeon, but enough content to show off the GM mode.
Posted By: Nyanko

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/09/16 12:40 AM

For the GM mode, I would like to have different layers of visualization in which you can see, at a glance, what the dependencies between objects on the map are and you can interact with them right away. I would imagine a quest layer in which you see all the npcs giving quests and all the objects related to them. Another could be the npcs, the monsters and their factions. Another, the unseen world, like ghosts and hidden objects.

We could imagine as well an abstract layer in which interactive objects are seen as polygons and you can access to their stats and description by clicking on them.

It should be very iconic rather than swarming with text so it would be easy to distinguish a scene as a GM and interact rapidly to improve it for the players.
Posted By: Deadlock

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 15/09/16 02:33 AM

I have this idea of a 'hybrid GM mode'. All the players would be playing characters, but one would be the 'hybrid GM'. That player would still be playing, but perhaps while playing against, or with the other players depending on possible map types, he would have access to certain triggers on the map already predefined.

I think it could open up a strong type of storytelling. There would be this one character in the game who is an important figure to the story that the game wants to tell. By giving that power to the one special character, I think it would allow for some interesting gameplay. Letting a single bad guy act like the crazy summoner, that triggers a bunch of spawns while still in complete control of a character, aiming to kill off the heroes that wants to invade.

Or escort a VIP through hordes of enemies. The VIP character would have access to certain triggers that shows the power of this legendary person, something that will show and tell why this person was so powerful in the first place.

Maybe this idea in my head can be done if there is a possibility to make custom abilities instead, which I'm not sure will be in the game. Either way, being able to whack up the game is something I think it needs, more creative freedom when it comes to multiplayer and custom content.
Posted By: Zeption

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 19/09/16 09:15 AM

Hello!!

I assume that the "GM" will be able to load custom modules or vanilla game to play
so I'll focus on what I think should be able to do in-game

 while playing:

- Lock or unlock (doors and chests

- Spawn (items, books, treasure chests, rocks, boats, objects to interact or assets like dead bodys or blood in the floor)
I imagined it would be something like this:
I write in chat "/ spawn (ID)" and the object appears under the pointer
It is quite easy to use and do not forget to remove the object with a command: "/ delete" or "/ remove" also under the pointer

- Teleport players to another map
        from Act 1 to Act 4

- GM disable players (take away control of the character)
       more than anything to place a dialogue as they fight or make an NPC escape

- A list of "IDs" of objects and creatures

- Throwing dice, as WOW (/ roll 20)

- Interactions with NPC
    switches (Hostile to Neutral / Neutral to Hostile)
    NPC Commands:
            Spawn NPC (obviously)
            NPC learn "x" spell
            NPC resize
            NPC immortal
            NPC follow a player
            1 npc or more, following a "NPC" operating as a leader
            NPC (dog) is now playable for "x" player
                         the NPC can not level up and can not learn new skills

I think these are the things I would use more, do not get me wrong I think much of the game will be in combat but on occasion you want to let the player explore alternative routes that are not necessarily combat or even join a faction and these commands were created to make this possible in-gmae manually if the "GM" is willing to take the job he can do many things also it will be easier to tell a story with this and create new Quests
Posted By: Galmir

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 26/09/16 10:40 AM

Hey there, first post here, played D:OS and enjoying the alpha of D:OS 2 these days. I'd love to share some random thoughts about the current topic:

I tried to read all the posts of this thread, and i see a general consensus about making the editor similar to Aurora toolset.

I played myself for years with NWN 1, been a DM and a scripter, joined RP, PVP, powerplay servers with MMO/instance behaviour and admin'd a full roleplay one.
Handling people is not easy, the deeper you go into roleplay, the more attention you must pay to every player's step.

I want you guys to remember one thing though, since NWN pops up every other post: the combat system here is full queued turn based, not asymmetric delay on actions.

Why is this important? because when DMing in divinity, you can take care of everything in a sorted line of work, without fearing that a faster player could meteoshower your face.
But also because having >4 people playing can become boring and frustrating so i see the constraint of max players a necessity.

Another point that i see often is that people want a realtime ingame editor,.
The power of Aurora was that you could take your time building your world in a separate tool, then when joining the game as a DM you should have a skillbar with every need you could possibly have at runtime:

- controlling units, making them talk by simply using the chat system.
This allowed real roleplay from the players who would type in the chat the answers, so no need for branching dialogue trees.

- spawning / despawning creatures, items.
An intuitive interface for tuning the stats of the spawned item/ creature, like naming, stats tuning, switching
talents on/off, AI templates (ranged, melee, healer, etc.)

- teleporting every unit at will.
- Change weather / time of the day if the lighting is dynamic, so you can have your very own eclipse of Doom and making it worse by turning on rain.

I'm personally against editing the landscape in realtime, but that's just me and minor changes may not be problematic, like placing furnitures around, but that shouldn't be the focus of the runtime part, since you have players to entertain.

So, all this to say that i'd love an external tool to create the map, placing npcs and whatnot like you do for the main story, and at runtime having the power to possess npc and making players role by simply chatting.
Posted By: Donkeypuffy

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/10/16 11:39 AM

A toolset, on fly event creation is not a must for most DMs. Certainly it is useful, allowing easy on the fly event to be done truly on the fly. However, I would say the ability to fully prepare and create areas is far more valuable.

A few things I would like to see for the GM mode, perhaps they already have been mentioned or confirmed. But I shall throw them in nevertheless!

*The ability to change character names IG, both players and NPCs - A most useful tool
*The ability to speak as an NPC without possessing it - This allows multi tasking during events
*DM spy gear, aka being able to listen as a player speak whilst not being in the same area. - This allows you to run off and do other things whilst they think you are there!
*Full power of player inventories - Adding/removing/Naming/Nerfing/Boosting items IG at will
Posted By: GrumpyMcGrump

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/10/16 09:53 PM

Greetings and well met to everybody, it's my first post here, but considering that 40% of the reasons behind my backing of D:OS2 on kickstarter was GM mode (the other 60% was that the first title was very enjoyable), I feel it is fitting to begin my activities on this forum with this thread. I am (or rather, was) a very affectionate fan of NWN1 and 2, spent years playing on roleplay servers, did a lot of mapping on NWN1's toolset and some scripting. As an avid fan of everything roleplay, AD&D and NWN1/2 related, well, as much as I hate parroting other people's ideas, I do agree that the ability of creating persistent worlds would not only allow genre aficionados such as myself to unleash their creativity and passion for online roleplay once more, thus making the game a lot more enjoyable (admittedly than it already is), but also substantially extend the lifespawn of D:OS2. I mean, there are still fully functional NWN1 servers after almost 17 years since the game's release (even if those servers are slowly dying out), and both games gave life to a very solid, active and skilled modding community.

Without adding much else, I'm just gonna enunciate what I feel would not only be awesome, but also draw even more players to this masterpiece of a game in making:

1 - Easy-to-use (or RELATIVELY easy to use) toolset so that you won't need a degree in quantum physics to learn its ropes, as it sadly happened to NWN2.
2 - Ability to support mid-to-high player count, if at all possible (I'd say between 30 and 60 players online at the same time. 40 would already be a lot).
3 - Differentiated channels. Before somebody tells me "we already have them!", I mean a chat channel dedicated to normal talk (in a system similar to interactions between npcs in the single player campaign thus far: text floating over their heads for a few secs and such) which supports:
Talk (intended as a "talking at normal volume"), audible in X radius.
YELL (Intended as "shouting"), audible in X * Y radius
[i]whisper[/i] (you guess it), autible in X / Y radius, for very shady stuff.
4 - Chat log. That way you don't need to have an eidetic memory to remember what was told to you 5 minutes before the GM got angry with everyone's forgetfulness and decided to solve things his own way - by spawning Chuck Norris in front of the party and having Him roundhouse-kick the unfortunate, forgetful players into oblivion.
5 - Ability to write a short description of one's character, that will pop up the moment someone will right-click on said character and click on "examine". I swear that some descriptions I've had the honor of reading in the past years spent playing NWN1 and 2 were beautiful. Others... not so much, true, but still!
6 - Ability to hide things like resistances, hit points, magic armor and magic shield to avoid metagaming (it's a pet peeve of mine, I admit)
7 - Ability to control monsters/characters, it'd be great for final-boss-style battles or adding a more immersive touch to a session.
8 - Ability to create items, as well as their description, on the spot. Saves time by avoiding the need to create them via toolset and then add them to the game, and is also a gold mine when it comes to quest creativity.
9 - Ability to change names of npcs and monsters, and even their skills and equipment. I've lost track of all the times I had to deal with Linu La'neral while pretending that she was someone else because she was the only appropriately-geared elven cleric available to the dm's spawner.
10 - Quality over time: GM mode doesn't have to be released alongside the "main" portion of the game if that would compromise the final result. I'm sure the single player campaign will be of enough quality as to keep ourselves rather busy for a long while until you've got it completely in shape and running.

As for the (rather concrete) concerns I've heard about too many players attending to the same event being at great risk of causing a big, bogged mess: it's true, but it's not that heavily-attended dm events on nwn1 and 2 weren't clean or easy to understand, either: a pvp between 2 groups of 10 peoples each always resulted in a massive framerate drop and nobody actually understanding what was going on, same for a fight between 6 players and 20+ dm spawns. I believe that simply allowing a server to enforce a time limit for each player to plan their moves and act on those plans before their turn is automatically forfeit, akin to the already present option in arena mode, would already solve a lot of issues.

Well, that's it for now. I do recognize that I'm suggesting a lot of things so don't worry, my feet are still solidly grounded and I won't take it badly if not all of them will be implemented, but hey, if even half of these points I (and many others before me) suggested are ever going to be implemented, with the other half having the possibility of being done via user-generated scripts and modding, I can safely say that I won't be playing anything else past GM mode's release for a loooooong time.

In the meantime, you guys keep on the good work with single player, I'm really enjoying it so far. Now if you'll excuse me, I'm off to my 7th playthrough of the first chapter. :horsey:
Posted By: ImariKurumi

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 13/10/16 06:12 AM

Originally Posted By: norD
-- SUGGESTIONS/IDEAS -

- Moddable GM mode
- GM playing monsters
- Player dedicated servers
- GMind the main game
- Add/Remove enemies, traps and such
- Permadeath/new character option
- Multiple GMs
- Dedicated server for persistent modules
- Connection to a database
- Chat channels
- Needs to be 100% stable
- On the fly conversations
- Release "when it's done" over delaying the game with it
- Queue events together or with a timer
- Player become GM and vice-versa
- Procedural generation
- Sessions replay
- Preplan and save an area
- Random Encounter chart for the GM
- Adding personal quest linked to the main campaign
- Hiding player stats from the GM
- A dialogue tool for GM


Basically has almost everything i feel is important.
To add a few:

-Customize/Create own items, NPCs, monsters including stats, skill, description and such.
-Speech Bubbles(private chat channels are good, but speech bubbles are the go to for RP).
-Able to create character bio and view other player's bio.
-Support more players, i'm not greedy, maybe around 10-12 players. Of course NWN kinda scale is the best.

Posted By: OldManMordaith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/10/16 10:04 PM

I am so excited about this feature. I used to help DM an old NWN server, City of Arabel. Myself and some old members of the team from back then have decided that if Larian gives us the tools - we will totally start up a persistent world RP focused server using D:OS2.

Keeping fingers crossed. Looks absolutely amazing.
Posted By: Horrorscope

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 28/10/16 05:38 PM

Temper enthusiasm NWN'ers... you'd think you've all learned by now. It's been deadly silent on what this is going to be, we'd think at this point a lot has to have been decided, unless the game is still over a year out.

I hope, if it doesn't live up to very lofty expectations as recent suggestions to me are, that we don't once again try to destroy the whole game by word of mouth because it isn't your dream game of Table Top 2 PC. Perhaps by D:OS 5 we'll get there, but accept baby steps towards that goal. As we can see no one is going all out to make a NWN replacement from the start, most likely they scared shit-less to try, due to fan expectations.

Their first attempt at modding in D:OS1 we have to look at as a failure, I'd go in very guarded and set the bar low.
Posted By: GrumpyMcGrump

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 30/10/16 07:54 PM

Originally Posted By: Horrorscope
Temper enthusiasm NWN'ers... you'd think you've all learned by now. It's been deadly silent on what this is going to be, we'd think at this point a lot has to have been decided, unless the game is still over a year out.

I hope, if it doesn't live up to very lofty expectations as recent suggestions to me are, that we don't once again try to destroy the whole game by word of mouth because it isn't your dream game of Table Top 2 PC. Perhaps by D:OS 5 we'll get there, but accept baby steps towards that goal. As we can see no one is going all out to make a NWN replacement from the start, most likely they scared shit-less to try, due to fan expectations.

Their first attempt at modding in D:OS1 we have to look at as a failure, I'd go in very guarded and set the bar low.


Dreaming doesn't hurt.

Besides, even if we don't end up with the tools to set up persistent worlds (fingers crossed!) the base game is already quite good and very, very enjoyable. Can't speak for the others, but I'm not at risk of perceiving the game as "ruined" or "spoiled" if its GM mode isn't what I hoped it to be wink
Posted By: Nonex

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/11/16 02:50 PM

Hi all I'm new here so first of all great job so far!

I'm a great fan of the series.

So I would like to be able to Change NPC's name's abilities appearance's name's on the fly or in a editor before starting or whilst playing a Scenario.
(please don't make that preset stuff only like they did with SCL)

Good luck and keep up the great effort and work!
Posted By: OldManMordaith

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/11/16 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Horrorscope
Temper enthusiasm NWN'ers... you'd think you've all learned by now. It's been deadly silent on what this is going to be, we'd think at this point a lot has to have been decided, unless the game is still over a year out.

I hope, if it doesn't live up to very lofty expectations as recent suggestions to me are, that we don't once again try to destroy the whole game by word of mouth because it isn't your dream game of Table Top 2 PC. Perhaps by D:OS 5 we'll get there, but accept baby steps towards that goal. As we can see no one is going all out to make a NWN replacement from the start, most likely they scared shit-less to try, due to fan expectations.

Their first attempt at modding in D:OS1 we have to look at as a failure, I'd go in very guarded and set the bar low.


Won't ruin the game for me at all. But I am hopeful. I'm far to old to get the pitchforks out over a video game.
Posted By: Poptart

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 01/12/16 01:34 PM

Based on the interview with Swen in PC Gamer, it looks to me like GM mode is one of the major reasons they are doing the Early Access (I guess they call it Early Access rather than Open Beta because you have to pay for the game to get Access?).

At any rate, here's the quote from the article:

"The super-secret Game Master mode is going to hit in Early Access also. That’s a very new thing, so we need to do a lot of testing with it. We’re really trying things there."

Most of the other features he describes as "tweaks" or "changes" -- game balance appears to be the other major item they're looking at, based on the article -- but this he outright says needs a lot of testing.

There are some really fantastic ideas in the game already, and given how good the Early Access looks, I think there's a lot of reason to be hopeful that a GM mode will be equally awesomesauce. It will doubtless require a lot of iteration to hit the sweet spot, but Larian has done a pretty brilliant job finding innovative and interesting ways to improve their games with every version, so it's something they're good at.

He specifically mentions forums as a source for feedback, so...

Full text of the article here:

http://www.pcgamer.com/how-divinity-original-sin-2-will-evolve-in-early-access/
Posted By: Marzipanic

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/12/16 03:28 AM

Hey there! Again, loving Divinity: Original Sin 2. Larian Studios is doing a fantastic job, and I expect that with player support, this game really could take on other GM-supportive RPGs. Horrorscope is rightly hesitant, but I think NWN1/2 veterans (like myself) understand that this is no small task, and certainly much testing, patience, and community encouragement will be needed.

On that note, many people have mentioned some items they would like for a Game Master's (and consequently, their fellow players') experience, so here are some other basic things:

IN-GAME GAME MASTER TOOLS:
Selection Tools
  • Hotkey + Mouse to select individual (Click) or select multiple (Click-Drag) Player Characters
  • Hotkey + Mouse to select individual (Click) or select multiple (Click-Drag) NPCs
  • Hotkey + Mouse to select individual (Click) or select multiple (Click-Drag) characters (any)
  • Hotkey + Mouse to deselect individual (Click) or deselect multiple (Click-Drag) characters (any)
  • Ability to Assign a Hotkey to current character selection, for easy selection and commanding
  • Ability to set camera to follow a specific character
  • Ability to toggle NPC AI on/off
  • Ability to toggle NPC immortality (can't die)
  • Ability to toggle NPC immunity (can't take damage)
  • Ability to "puppeteer" any character (assume full control)
  • Ability to "limbo" selected NPC or object (removing it from map, but available to GM via "limbo" menu)
    ------ Ability to spawn limboed NPCs/Objects back in at any time, any place

Communication
  • Ability to answer player "help" tickets
  • Ability to broadcast a message server-wide
  • Ability to format/change color of current message text

Movement (that overrides Player and AI control)
  • Ability to move currently selected characters
  • Ability to temporarily freeze selected characters in place (still animated, but can't move)
  • Ability to instantly teleport selected characters to any other location
    ------ Option to Right-Click + "Teleport Characters" to any surface (with enough walkable space)
    ------ Option to teleport to area or "waypoint" via server menu selection
  • Ability to arrange currently selected characters into a "formation"

Player Management
  • Ability to Mute/Unmute Player Character or Player Account
    ------ Option for a temporary mute period, or to make permanent
  • Ability to ban/unban Player Character or Player Account off of campaign/server
    ------ Option for a temporary ban period, or make permanent
  • Ability to "Boot" Player Character off of campaign/server
  • Ability to "Look Up" offline characters and set

Combat Controls
  • Ability to observe combat for selected combat group
  • Ability to pause combat for selected combat group
  • Ability to end combat & impose immediate 60-second disengagement for selected combat group
  • Ability to control NPCs in combat, but still have an option to let the AI play combat on specific turn
  • Ability to "delay" currently selected character's turn to occur after a # of turns or # of rounds
  • Ability to add self to combat (good for introducing environmental effects in rounds, etc.)


MULTIPLAYER CAMPAIGN SETTINGS (for Campaign Host/Admin):
Connection Management
  • Automatic Reconnection Attempt Options (in case server/campaign host loses connection)
  • Ability to set recurring campaign reset (daily, weekly, etc)

NPC Management
  • Ability to set specific NPCs to be "immortal"
  • Ability to set specific NPCs/encounters to respawn after a certain time if killed

Player Account Management
  • Option to force all character files to load from and save to Server (not Client)
  • Option to force all Players to update account credentials on next login
  • Option to enforce automatic IP Banning based on:
    ------ Number of login/logout attempts within 5 minutes

Combat Options
  • Ability to set availability of PvP Combat and/or Actions on targeted area, map, or campaign-wide
  • Ability to Limit Player Character turn times (to avoid problems with idle players) based on:
    ------ Time (i.e. seconds, minutes, etc.)
    ------ AP
    --------- Ability to pick minimum turn time (default: 15 realtime seconds?)
    --------- Ability to pick time allotted per AP (default: 5 realtime seconds?)

Thievery/Pickpocketing Options
  • Option to disable pickpocketing of Player Characters by other Player Characters
  • If Pickpocketing of Player Characters is enabled, have option to limit pickpocketing by:
    ------ Weight of items (i.e., cannot collectively pickpocket items heavier than [x] grams/lbs)
    ------ Value of items (i.e., cannot collectively pickpocket items worth more than [x] gold at base)
    ------ Character & Time (i.e., cannot pickpocket character [x] more than [y] times per [z] realtime hours)

Player Character Death Options
  • Permadeath (only respawns if resurrected by other player or GM)
  • Respawn (one, several, or all of the below options should be available)
    ------ At Last Logged Saved Respawn Point
    ------ At Nearest Respawn Point
    ------ At Corpse
    ------ (Each option above should have additional options, below, if selected:)
    --------- Only available if Resurrected by other Player
    --------- Only available [time frame, i.e., 1h, 12h, 24h, 1w] in [realtime or game time]


PLAYER CHARACTER TOOLS
Autofollow Option
  • If Autofollowing NPC, autofollow is automatically allowed
  • If attempting to autofollow a Player Character, that character should be prompted with options to:
    ------ Allow Autofollow
    --------- If accepted, either autofollow participants should have option to break autofollow at any time
    ------ Deny Autofollow
    --------- Additional option to deny autofollow requests from this character for [x] time or permanently
  • Autofollow should "stop" if followed character is removed, becomes invisible, etc
  • Player should also have menu option to "auto-deny" all autofollow requests (to prevent abuse)

Self-Management
  • Option to set character to "AFK"
  • Option to set character to "DND" (aka, autorespond to any new personal messages)
  • Option to ignore other characters/players (aka, mute that character's personal messages or chats)
    --- Cannot ignore GM
  • Ability to create queued "GM Ticket" to request help or ask a game-related question to the GM privately
    --- Can only post one ticket at a time




That's all I have for now. Cheers!
Posted By: Eldarth

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 14/01/17 12:07 AM

Any news on Game Master/Creation tools???

Posted By: Kalrakh

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 16/01/17 11:32 AM

They first need to care about the game itself, before they can concentrate on the modding stuff, my guess.
Posted By: norD

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 19/01/17 10:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Eldarth
Any news on Game Master/Creation tools???

All will come in due time.
Hard at work with the main game.
I haven't posted in my own thread because of this also.
Swen is the only one who will spill any beans about GM mode when he'll find it right. smile
Posted By: drwargame

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 20/01/17 04:48 PM

I say take your time! Keep up the great work. Loved the pre-release.
Posted By: Solanales

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/03/17 12:10 AM

Definitely take your time on this and do it right. I talked with some of the folks at PAX East about it and I have to say I'm pretty excited to try it when it comes about.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 11/04/17 02:36 AM

Ok here is one.

I am aware that there will be some level of customization. custom moves, custom skillsets, custom ailments.

Perhaps having extra symbols would be a nice fit. I know extra enemies might be asking for a bit much... but maybe a few extra symbols could appear.

---

As for enemies... Color Slider? maybe multiple?
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 12/05/17 06:20 AM

Ok, lets include a "Drawer" and/or highlight and/or arrow ability for GMs

I noticed that when the GM was trying to show things, he used his hands when the tools should be at least somewhat in game.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 13/05/17 04:21 PM

I was thinking of how to do Familiars and Animal companions and my first instinct was "But wouldn't that interfere with normal summons?" and while there are a few good ways around this already such as making the Animal a party member I tried thinking of something a bit more solid.

Allow the GM/designer to set up sort of summon channels so to speak or "Summon groups", each with their own individually set summon limits AND whether they can be controlled or not.

Right now the Summoner does something very similar.

That way someone can have their Familiar, via a summon. As well as an additional ordinary summon.

If you want to go the extra step you could even allow summons to be weighted within the channel (As in, "This summon counts as two summons")

---

Allow Origin/Race Specific Stat Set ups.

While this doesn't have too much of a purpose in the standard game, it might have a bit more sway in someone's custom game.
Posted By: gogots

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 15/05/17 12:36 PM

Hi guy! Great job with the game master mode! I want to try it!!!!!

But if i can suggest some features:
-A vignet with a full screen image.
-3d rolling dice will be really immersive. Gm and NPC rolling dice possible.
-an npc creator like the player creator, where we can change the face and the hair.
or an player characters importer for the player and the npc.
-the possibility to control the player's characters, and the possibility to teleport them everywhere in the map.
-Share the npc's portrait to the players, when they are talking.
-pvp possible!!!
-song and music importer. I know it's difficult with the copyright.

With this, the game master mode will be perfect for me!

Now, I just wait to see the new Divinity engine. If this one is simple to use(more than the old one), I can see a great and long life for your game!

Thanks for your work!

PS: sorry for my bad english.
Posted By: 4verse

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 15/05/17 01:19 PM

dont know if i have already post something similar, but it already floats around in my head for quite some time now (its more a modding toolkit topic, but there is no dedicated thread to the toolkit and it also has links to the gm tools):

a "modding toolkit lite" would be cool. ie a combination of the easy-to-use gm mode and some limited magic of the toolkit. so, like a dummy mode for the toolkit with only limited options activated so that you can quick build landscapes (or maybe even an automatic map builder, which you only feed some parameters like biome, % of water, rock, woods etc.), put in some premade buildings, some npcs, loot, enemies, write a story arc and dialogs, maybe some vignettes and/or an overland map to link several locations and done.

this could of course also be used for quickbuilding gm adventures
Posted By: Elik

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 16/05/17 08:12 AM

What about import\export player-characters from one campaign to another?

And throwing a few dices? And....4D8 + 2D6 - 1D20

And what about animations? Dancing? Emotions? Will it be possible to use animations or create a custom?

And will be able to play a few games with different peoples and campaigns and let them meet in one?

Mode where to move on the map, will be spent of food and the time goes depending on speed and distance

Custom spells

Pointers. "Ok, lets include a "Drawer" and/or highlight and/or arrow ability for GMs" //**Neonivek

Sea travel? Sea maps?

All players in group must go together? Or the group could fall apart?

Allow the players and GM to control NPCs and characters of the players themselves

P.S. Sorry for bad English
Posted By: Elik

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 16/05/17 12:49 PM

Oh! Can you release map creator now? Or only with full GMM?
Posted By: Elik

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/05/17 12:27 PM

Creating custom skill\talents\modificators and\or in-game notebook.

You can give the opportunity to create their own skills when creating characters. Climbing, cooking and so on. And add the ability to add skills when you transfer characters from campaign to campaign, if you give the opportunity. Or you can just throw a D20 in all situations. But then it would be nice to add....Char-sheet, where GM will bring either their own skills or modifiers. Not everyone can create a software list and quite often created a situation where the players or the masters want to give a character a bonus or penalty to a character or a whole group. In videos about GM mode I do not see the possibility to record data in a "notebook" and save it.

P.S. Sorry for bad English
Posted By: Elik

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/05/17 12:40 PM

And does GM can switch "step mode" when GM want it?
Posted By: Elik

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/05/17 01:01 PM

Volumes? Areas?
Allow game master to create zones with some effects. For example...area in which after some time, character will fall asleep or zone where player is constantly wet because of the extremely high humidity, or, conversely, dry or heated in connection with the characteristics of the environment

P.S. Sorry for bad English
Posted By: Kachelschmierer

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/05/17 04:28 PM

Greetings,
although an avid P&P player in several systems, I am completely new to the Divinity franchise. I am however absolutely thrilled by the Game Master Mode and cannot wait to try it.

I have watched several videos about it and noticed a few things that I could not see yet or seem missing to me, so here is my list of ideas/questions. Sorry if any of it is already in the game or has been asked before.
These things are ordered by how important I see them.

1. NPC dialogue! I love the vignettes. They are really beautiful and help to tell a story. But the biggest charm for a P&P on PC is for me the possible amount of preparation that a GM can put into an adventure that would never be possible in a classic game. I want to give unimportant NPCs a standard dialogue so that I can click some other things in the meantime and focus on the important aspects. In a tabletop game, this is no problem, because I do not have to click stuff on another map in advance, I can concentrate on the unimportant NPC. But I cannot edit a vignette on the fly while I play a random commoner (at least with my amount of multitasking). I did sink hours into the dialogue trees from NWN1's Aurora Editor.

2. From what I have seen in videos, as soon as the characters enter a map, they can move the camera to anywhere and see anything. This may be a Divinity thing, but it seems very odd to me. I can see that the GM can always spawn in surprise enemies etc. but even in a P&P environment the players are not able to see everything right from the start. Can they even see through doors? In my opinion this is taking away a lot of the P&P/PC mixture charm. The players should be camera locked and able to explore rather than just see.

3. Will there be a way to place triggers on the ground that automatically spawn enemies or are just plain traps? Area transitions would also be nice.

4. I was missing a classic quest journal and I would really like my players to be able to track and remember what they did or are going to do.

5. Can we set up automated paths/waypoints/routes for NPCs to make them seem more lively?

6. Can the GM edit a module/save inbetween play sessions? So for example when I start an adventure with a group and I notice that they want to go to a location that I had not planned, can I prepare this map before we start the next session?

7. From what I have seen, the players can always see the level and remaining HP of an enemy. Can we hide these stats in certain cases to make a mysteriously dangerous foe?

8. Can we clone player characters on the fly and add them to the creature menu? In this way we could build some cool dream sequences or let them fight their own mirror images.

9. The GM should have a map marker, some highlight, a sun flare, something, to show what he is talking about or to gain the players' attention.

Thank you for reading and any information or even taking something to the official ideas list.
Kachelschmierer
Posted By: Heavenly Wolf

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/05/17 08:20 PM

I don't know if this has been said yet, but I would love:
- the ability to design branching dialogue trees
and
- hidden quests (aka there would be no quest marker over specific side quests if the dm wanted but if a player was curious enough to click on it would see the quest and could accept)

Other things that I think would be cool are:
- custom Items
- Friendly monsters
- Recruitable NPC's
- (this is very out there but) the ability to give recruitable NPC's dialogue in certain situations.
- friendly recruitable monster NPC's (it's just an Illithid, don't worry about it)
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/05/17 09:31 PM

All I really want on top of what I've seen in the GM-mode videos is "automated area transitions" and the ability to place traps.
Especially the automated transitions are important to me as I would like the players to explore outdoor areas and enter caves, dungeons or go through trapdoors without me having to teleport them.

Number 1 on my list is to be able to transport characters from one campaign to the next, or the ability to keep on adding newly built areas (including those transitions) in prepare mode for ever to an existing save.
Posted By: Naamapokemen

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/05/17 09:09 PM

- Multi-GM support!
- Possibility to at least attempt to script skills and bind them to character animations.
- Slow time -mode.
Posted By: Stabbey

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/06/17 02:54 PM

The game in general needs the ability to Shift-select multiple items in the inventory and drag and drop them, or right-click and do something in the context menu (not ALL context options). This is important enough in regular play, but it's much more necessary in GM mode, for things like removing a player's inventory if they get captured, as in the Mercer stream. Right now having to stop and remove each item one at a time - especially for 4 players is incredibly slow and error-prone.
Posted By: Chili1179

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 10/06/17 06:03 AM

Randomized NPC placement possible?

Let's say I make a custom NPC Pirate, Human Male as a base. How difficult would it be to have a checkbox option to randomize appearance on placement? Like, every time I drag the custom NPC from the list to place it in the game world it would give it a random race/gender/appearance.

I think that would help with making more immersive game play than having 15 of the same identical NPCs or at least make less work for a GM planning a game not to have to create a vast variation of NPCs.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 15/06/17 06:11 AM

This might be a feature already, but if not I would love to have the GM camera center on a player when double clicking it's portrait.
Posted By: Ithiel

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 30/06/17 05:53 AM

The GM Mode is already looking really great, and I'm pretty excited. There's one thing that has me a little worried right now: all the demos of DM mode were 1 DM and 4 Players. This is okay, but frankly I have a very large group of pen & paper gaming friends. I would really love if more players were supported. It's a lot easier for me to get buy in on a campaign if I can get 5-6 players, and I have no issues running a group of that size :)
Posted By: Ithiel

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 30/06/17 06:30 AM

I posted too early! I forgot a few things that I'm not sure if they already support. I saw that you can create custom items, but:

*In the feature video it doesn't look like you can grant a skill/talent/ability with a custom item. This can certainly be faked by actually granting the user that skill/talent/ability in the UI while they wear it, but it would be nice addition to remove some of the micro-management.

*I believe I saw somewhere that it is supposed to be supported, but I think being able to make custom skills/talents/abilities would be extremely useful in making games more flexible. I want to run a Pathfinder Adventure Path and would like to be able to do things like create the Campaign Traits inside the engine.

*It would be nice to use custom abilities similar to the way a lot of pen & paper systems use skills, which means that integration with the dice roller would be a nice quality of life improvement. That way I can easily roll something like, die + strength modifier + climbing.

For the most part it seems like these things can be faked, but in particular I think custom skills (using the Divinity terminology) is probably the most micro-management intensive to fake. For the rest I suspect if support doesn't exist in game, I will keep a second monitor or laptop open which track character's "out of game" abilities.
Posted By: Noctro

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/07/17 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Ithiel
The GM Mode is already looking really great, and I'm pretty excited. There's one thing that has me a little worried right now: all the demos of DM mode were 1 DM and 4 Players. This is okay, but frankly I have a very large group of pen & paper gaming friends. I would really love if more players were supported. It's a lot easier for me to get buy in on a campaign if I can get 5-6 players, and I have no issues running a group of that size smile


YES
YES
This is VERY important.
Our group has seen the capabilities of the GM Mode and Divinity, but none of us will buy the game if we can't play all together, and we are usually 6 players and a GM.
I don't know why anyone would think 4 people is enough (or fun) for roleplaying. And roleplaying it's what it's all this about... because frankly, combat turns are slower in a tabletop regular D&D game with the same amount of players, so, PLEASE. ALLOW MORE PLAYERS
Posted By: WMC51

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 16/07/17 10:52 PM

One of the things that I think will be most disappointing fore is that players can scroll around the map. I really wish there was a "fog of war" type mechanic.
Posted By: Ghatt

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 27/07/17 09:30 PM

Four players and a GM is pretty standard for tabletop RPGs. It's what the creators of D&D originally envisioned for the game, but having said that, I'd love if the player limit was six as well. Right now, I'm having to consider who I want to invite to participate in the game rather than just announcing it to everyone. It's a bit of a drag and hopefully will be addressed by the devs at some point.
Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 02/08/17 09:45 PM

Originally Posted By: WMC51
One of the things that I think will be most disappointing fore is that players can scroll around the map. I really wish there was a "fog of war" type mechanic.


Yes, I totally agree with that. I really hope there will be some way to obscure an area for the players.
Posted By: norD

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/08/17 01:46 PM

Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87

Yes, I totally agree with that. I really hope there will be some way to obscure an area for the players.

It's a check box in the editor.
We decided to create maps without fog of war but like the main campaign, fog of war can be added to any map you create smile
Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 03/08/17 05:11 PM

Originally Posted By: norD
Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87

Yes, I totally agree with that. I really hope there will be some way to obscure an area for the players.

It's a check box in the editor.
We decided to create maps without fog of war but like the main campaign, fog of war can be added to any map you create smile


I love you! ahah.

As a game dev and a D&D player I've always dreamed of a NWN like games with DM options and Turn Based combat. Probably this is the closest thing to that dream. laugh

I hope the editor will provide enough flexibility.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/08/17 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: norD
Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87

Yes, I totally agree with that. I really hope there will be some way to obscure an area for the players.

It's a check box in the editor.
We decided to create maps without fog of war but like the main campaign, fog of war can be added to any map you create smile


Cool, but will FoW be there for "players only" or will the GM have it too?
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/08/17 05:33 AM

I'd like a feature to set the PCs to be controlled by AI in combat -- the hardest AI difficulty in the game. Also an option to only possess one or two monsters during combat, while the rest remain controlled by the AI.
Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 07/08/17 06:13 PM

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
I'd like a feature to set the PCs to be controlled by AI in combat -- the hardest AI difficulty in the game. Also an option to only possess one or two monsters during combat, while the rest remain controlled by the AI.


Can I ask you in which case this could be useful ?
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/08/17 12:34 AM

Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87
Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
I'd like a feature to set the PCs to be controlled by AI in combat -- the hardest AI difficulty in the game. Also an option to only possess one or two monsters during combat, while the rest remain controlled by the AI.


Can I ask you in which case this could be useful ?


Yes, you may. Go ahead and ask.
Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/08/17 09:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87
Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
I'd like a feature to set the PCs to be controlled by AI in combat -- the hardest AI difficulty in the game. Also an option to only possess one or two monsters during combat, while the rest remain controlled by the AI.


Can I ask you in which case this could be useful ?


Yes, you may. Go ahead and ask.


Wow. In what case PC controlled by AI is useful?
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/08/17 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87
Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87
Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
I'd like a feature to set the PCs to be controlled by AI in combat -- the hardest AI difficulty in the game. Also an option to only possess one or two monsters during combat, while the rest remain controlled by the AI.


Can I ask you in which case this could be useful ?


Yes, you may. Go ahead and ask.


Wow. In what case PC controlled by AI is useful?


There are many different story applications it would be useful in. For example, perhaps the player or players are possessed by a malevolent entity forcing them to fight and kill guards, etc.

Another way would be if the player was infected with lycanthropy... or under mind control.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 08/08/17 10:21 PM

Wouldn't be a great opportunity for the player to roleplay ?
I am sure players will have more fun fighting guards, or attacking innocent virgins in werewolf form themselves, instead of watching the AI do it for them.
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 12:50 AM

Originally Posted By: Redunzgofasta
Wouldn't be a great opportunity for the player to roleplay ?
I am sure players will have more fun fighting guards, or attacking innocent virgins in werewolf form themselves, instead of watching the AI do it for them.


They can roleplay the segments where they are in control, but I want my players to feel the feeling of helplessness of not being able to stop their bestial form taking over. I want them to not be like, "I'm trying my hardest to let my girlfriend get away before I attack her." No, they should have not been in the vicinity of someone they loved on a full moon and now they get to suffer the consequences. Secondly, the HARDEST AI in this game is INSANE. It can think of and do the most genius things most people wouldn't be able to think of, which makes it seem like a superhuman entity really has taken over their mind and body.

lol and roleplay being under mind control? Are you kidding? If the DM does a great job telling the story, you are going to HATE the main villain. The last thing you are going to want to do is role play your mind is under control and you have to do his bidding. If it's a weak DM, you may not come to hate the main bad guy that much.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 07:51 AM

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777

lol and roleplay being under mind control? Are you kidding?

No, but I surely thought you were when you asked for ai control of players.

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
If the DM does a great job telling the story, you are going to HATE the main villain.
The last thing you are going to want to do is role play your mind is under control and you have to do his bidding. If it's a weak DM, you may not come to hate the main bad guy that much.

If a DM does a great job he ain't the one telling the story, but lets the players tell the story to begin with and then the hate, if it needs to be there, will be even greater.

Any decend roleplayer would love such an opportunity to roleplay, and only a weak DM would have trouble preventing players to exploit or cheese the situation.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 10:15 AM

Quote:
If a DM does a great job he ain't the one telling the story


More playercentric propaganda. There is no magic formula between the players and the GM and people can have just as much fun in a game where the GM tells the story and calls the shots... As they can with a completely player run story where the GM only acts as a distant arbiter.

A DM does a great job if everyone, including the DM, is having fun (Unless it is a paid DM I guess... they don't have to have fun)
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 11:23 AM

Originally Posted By: Neonivek

A DM does a great job if everyone, including the DM, is having fun (Unless it is a paid DM I guess... they don't have to have fun)

True that.
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 12:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Redunzgofasta

If a DM does a great job he ain't the one telling the story, but lets the players tell the story to begin with and then the hate, if it needs to be there, will be even greater.

Any decend roleplayer would love such an opportunity to roleplay, and only a weak DM would have trouble preventing players to exploit or cheese the situation.


That's where we disagree. In my opinion and experience, weak DMs have no plot line when it starts, which includes no villain and no strategy of character building -- that includes no strategy of building up hostile feelings towards the antagonist. The players do have a part to play in shaping the story, but if you let the players run with telling the story, it is going to turn out quite sloppy.

Originally Posted By: Neonivek


A DM does a great job if everyone, including the DM, is having fun (Unless it is a paid DM I guess... they don't have to have fun)


Different DMs have different strategies of cultivating that "fun". Some DMs sloppily let the players guide the whole story, which turns into a lucid dream simulator and gets boring fast, without any anchor and anticipation or long term goal to work towards. These typically are Joe DM with no experience in writing or story building whatsoever.

I, on the other hand, am a professional writer as my primary source of income and have years of experience doing so. This experience in writing and story building carries over to my DM endeavors and produces a more suspenseful, goal oriented experience for my players.

Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 12:31 PM

In one of my latest session 2 of the PC of my players have been possessed by a Ghost. I didn't control them directly. I told them what to do and it felt like there was an internal conflict in the PC. It has been super cool.
They had to roll for damage but they weren't in control of their body.

In few words, you want AI controlled players just cause they are bad at roleplaying? Well, this is something that can't be fixed with an automatic systems.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 01:22 PM

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
That's where we disagree. In my opinion and experience, weak DMs have no plot line when it starts, which includes no villain and no strategy of character building -- that includes no strategy of building up hostile feelings towards the antagonist. The players do have a part to play in shaping the story, but if you let the players run with telling the story, it is going to turn out quite sloppy.

That's where we disagree indeed.
Weak DMs rely on a prepared story/adventure and the players will have to follow the storyline even if their characters wouldn't want to.

I on the other hand like to create a setting and a situation, set the players loose in the world and take it from there. This leads to a natural flow of the story, and much greater immersion, with highly motivated players because they are doing what they want to do, instead of doing what is dictated by the DMs story line.

If the story runs "sloppy" it is simply because the DM lacks the flexibility, skill and creativity to deal with it on the fly, and took the easy way out, relying on a script , "You guys are here, hired/told/ordered to go do this there", that has to be run in a certain order to not ruin the story, turning the players into actors in a rigid movie and basically taking away their freedom of choice.
Originally Posted By: st4lk3r87

In few words, you want AI controlled players just cause they are bad at roleplaying? Well, this is something that can't be fixed with an automatic systems.

Indeed.
Posted By: st4lk3r87

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 01:48 PM

Lol... No. I asked to Shapeshifter777 why he need it.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/08/17 02:06 PM

Oops my bad. Post edited.
Posted By: Neonivek

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 10/08/17 12:43 PM

Quote:
Weak DMs rely on a prepared story/adventure and the players will have to follow the storyline even if their characters wouldn't want to.


Or this is a sign of weak players or that the DM should have made sure they were all on the same page. That the players want their game and are not willing to work with the DM and would rather play their own game and simply want to use the DM to achieve that.

This is why I take the whole Player-Centric ideology so seriously. It abdicates all responsibility off the player, it tells the DM that their enjoyment or artistic integrity are unimportant, and only deals with ONE type of game... A game type that is actually quite unpopular for both DMs and Players (No really!)

Or rather... It is an ivory tower, an imagined/invented high art of DMing that doesn't reflect the reality around it and so it much echo itself constantly.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 10/08/17 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: Neonivek
Or rather... It is an ivory tower, an imagined/invented high art of DMing that doesn't reflect the reality around it and so it much echo itself constantly.

I wouldn't call it "high art of DMing" myself, but thanks for the compliment.
It's not the first time I got that compliment though.
Posted By: Lunaticlord

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 17/09/17 11:24 AM

Automated Leveling Paths

This would be something similar to what they have in the game now for stat increases... you increase the level of an npc and automatically certain stats will increase.
What I would like to see is a way I can set up an npc class, lets say a Warrior, and predetermine what gear and abilities it would get at certain levels. That way, on the fly, I can throw in classes, increase their levels, and not have to go back to each one and put in gear and abilities, which will be more downtime for the players.
Posted By: Ishi1993

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/09/17 05:42 PM

Hello, new guy here!
What i really think it should have, like, absolutely, it's generators of all kinds.
Encounter
Monster
Itens
Tresure hoads
equipaments
NPCs
Dungeons
Maps
ETC.
Maybe some modular dungeon maker, and then a generator based on the same system
AND
More than four players in the party, i'd say to make it unlimited, but if not possible, more than 4
Posted By: GeneralKong

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 20/09/17 01:00 PM

Hope to see an option added for a tick able box or something beside the music player to have the music loop
Posted By: Noctro

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 21/09/17 01:12 PM

Quote:
Hello, new guy here!
What i really think it should have, like, absolutely, it's generators of all kinds.
Encounter
Monster
Itens
Tresure hoads
equipaments
NPCs
Dungeons
Maps
ETC.
Maybe some modular dungeon maker, and then a generator based on the same system
AND
More than four players in the party, i'd say to make it unlimited, but if not possible, more than 4

I only see viable (and useful) equipments, treasure, and encounters. And yes, more than 4 players PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!!!!

Originally Posted By: GeneralKong
Hope to see an option added for a tick able box or something beside the music player to have the music loop

+1
Also can we have a "prepare music" menu that allow us to browse our files and put our MP3s. OGGs and WAVs ? same like the vignette system that allow us to directly import our images. Custom music is very important. Atmosphere and music are an integral part of the soul of good GMing.

Also: Please, let us change the color of things easily, the color menu for armors in NPCs would be nice as a color wheel, also, if we could change the hue of the paintable effects (fire, poison, those ones) we could create our own (blue fire, or orangey poison smoke)
Posted By: NecroDrake

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 22/09/17 09:10 AM

Don't know if it's been suggested already (there are a lot of posts here), but you know what would be interesting?

1.) The ability to create predefined paths/actions for characters in the mode so they aren't statically just sitting there without intervention (maybe on a timer or something instead of constant).

2.) Assign text dialogue to certain characters and options/responses for them (with a system that tells you when they are being talked to and what responses are given).

3.) I don't know if you can already, since you've made it have so much freedom to begin with, the ability to add your own audio files for music and sounds.

What do you guys think?
Posted By: Noctro

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 22/09/17 10:44 AM

Originally Posted By: NecroDrake
Don't know if it's been suggested already (there are a lot of posts here), but you know what would be interesting?

1.) The ability to create predefined paths/actions for characters in the mode so they aren't statically just sitting there without intervention (maybe on a timer or something instead of constant).

2.) Assign text dialogue to certain characters and options/responses for them (with a system that tells you when they are being talked to and what responses are given).

3.) I don't know if you can already, since you've made it have so much freedom to begin with, the ability to add your own audio files for music and sounds.

What do you guys think?


+1 to (1) and (3)
Posted By: Garou24

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 22/09/17 06:57 PM

I would love to see more options for the Game Master Mode. Campaigns that do not require a DM would be great. Something you could build and they later others explore on their own time. Hopefully adding in scripting for NPCs, dialog and quest creations etc. Something along the lines of what was included with Sword Coast Legends would be amazing.
Posted By: Noctro

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/09/17 01:10 AM

About Campaigns and DMing:
I'm concerned about 3 more things I just found out today:
1)In a Custom Campaign, as a player, You can't create a new character if the previous one dies (Maybe you run a campaign with no resurrection scrolls or something, or you grow tired of one and want to try a new one and keep playing the campaign with your friends) So the GM has to be able to modify a character with the player's permission, I'm told that that would be possible...almost. Because he can't change the race, so, or we give that power to the GM, or we allow re-roll in a started custom campaign, which takes me to
2) That being said, in the main campaign, you can't start to create a character and play when the campaign has already started in a multiplayer game, and you have to control a henchman, let's say that Fred,Bob, and George have been playing for 2 months George's Epic Campaign, but then Mike buys D:OS2 and wants in (like in their pen-and-paper sessions) but...can he? They are long past the starting point, map, and level and George has been expanding and changing it. How can he create a character when they have past gone the starting point? Or lets say one of the group leaves, is the new person that replaces him forced to play with the other guy's character since he isn't able to create one of their own?
And finally 3) I'm concerned about changing a campaign that is in progress, how do you add new scenes that you created after starting the campaign in the editor without having to create an entire new one? Does that mean we have to create ALL the levels and locations for a months(or years) long campaign beforehand? We need an option to modifiy an ongoing campaign. Also, when a campaign is over, or another person of the group wants to try GMing, but the guys obviously want to use their remaining and alive heroes to live more adventures with them, how about an option to save,load,import,and export characters?
Posted By: Nillend

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/09/17 08:29 AM

This might be added eventually via divinity engine by modders or developers themselves, but I would love the ability to add walls, towers gates and other bigger structures. Maybe not entire forts but an ability to shape one.
Posted By: Noctro

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 23/09/17 04:12 PM

You can do that with the level editor of the engine, Nilend.
Posted By: gogots

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 24/09/17 12:26 PM

I finally created and played my first parties.
and like everyone else I have suggestions. Some things have already been said but I think it is good to remind them.
1-The most important thing is the management of the characters. Noctro explains it very well. At least it is necessary to import and export these characters and a more flexible invitation system in the parties. This is indipensable for anyone who wants to make great campaign with GM Mode.
2-More content! Maps, NPC and Items. Yes, modders will participate. but larians must support this movement too.
3-A little more possibilities for the NPC: emotes and automatic patrols would be perfect.
4-The possibility of adding music, even if I know that it should pose problems of copyright.
5-The possibility of hiding the result of the dice to the players (and see the dice roll rolleyes )
6-and the possibility of ping something on the map will be very useful.

But for me, the real problem is the management of the characters. If Larian changes that, nothing will prevent more players to the beautiful rpg games.

PS: Sorry for my rought english
Posted By: Darkwind

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/09/17 01:41 PM

Originally Posted By: Noctro
And yes, more than 4 players PLEASE, PLEASE PLEASE!!!!



Priority 1 issue, it will die a short painless death otherwise. It shouldn't go the NWN route and attempt to be all things to all people, but if you are going for Virtual Tabletop understand most groups are around 6 players with the ends of the curve skewing out fairly wide in both directions.
Posted By: Bishop

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/09/17 09:40 PM

More DM tools would be cool, like being able to speak or use pop up text as NPC's.
Posted By: GeneralKong

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 26/09/17 04:49 PM

Originally Posted By: gogots
I finally created and played my first parties.
and like everyone else I have suggestions. Some things have already been said but I think it is good to remind them.
1-The most important thing is the management of the characters. Noctro explains it very well. At least it is necessary to import and export these characters and a more flexible invitation system in the parties. This is indipensable for anyone who wants to make great campaign with GM Mode.
2-More content! Maps, NPC and Items. Yes, modders will participate. but larians must support this movement too.
3-A little more possibilities for the NPC: emotes and automatic patrols would be perfect.
4-The possibility of adding music, even if I know that it should pose problems of copyright.
5-The possibility of hiding the result of the dice to the players (and see the dice roll rolleyes )
6-and the possibility of ping something on the map will be very useful.

But for me, the real problem is the management of the characters. If Larian changes that, nothing will prevent more players to the beautiful rpg games.

PS: Sorry for my rought english


All these, and also, would love the ability to move units outside of possessing them, like for instance, dragging a selection box around some NPC's, and holding down a button, and then right clicking to have them walk to a location.
Posted By: mrjane

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 28/09/17 05:00 PM

For me, the biggest thing would be adding dialogue right on NPCs, so players can talk to them. I know DM Mode is supposed to be "D&D" like, but screw that, this is a video game. I can manually do whatever effects come from a convo, but to pre-setup conversations and responses, right in game, would be epic (not the Vignettes, they're kind of annoying).
Posted By: EdgeCrusher420

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 05/10/17 11:06 PM

*Emotes for NPCs: specifically i want dummy attacks. I want to be able to make people look like they are fighting without actually entering combat. Also idle animation type stuff for towns, villages and markets etc.

*Ability to select and move multiple characters at once and to set basic pathing/patrols (if for nothing else but immersion)

*Ability to add custom music files and custom ambient sound files.

*Easy way to import/export player characters to continue new campaigns.

*Easy way for players to enter character creation mid campaign.

*General ease of use stuff such as more ways to randomize loot and inventories etc. in addition to the vendor generation buttons.
Posted By: Fandarin

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/10/17 10:00 PM

There needs to be something like a social hub. If I host a GM Game on US TZ I almost have no trouble to get people to join voice chat. However I am European and there is a problem. Most people are shy to get into voice chat because of their english skills. Most of them have no problem reading and writing but when it comes to voice chat they just leave. I'm german myself so I do understand it. The problem is that leading a campaign through Text chat is harsh and very limited because of the design of the Text Chat.

It would be nice to have several Global Chat options for the different languages to announce that a GM Adventure is starting.

To the community: Back in the days of Neverwinter Nights 1 there was a community run side called neverwinterconnections.com. It would have a schedule where GM would post when, what type and in what language the adventure or campaign would be run. Players would registred themself for the Campaign they wanted to play. It was a marvelous system. Players would know when the Game is going to be and bring enough time and the GM could tweak the adventure before hand knowing what classes the players would play.
Something similar would fit right into DOS:2. Maybe in combination with a discord community server?
Posted By: Pallok

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 19/10/17 01:55 AM

Just a quick thought. Would be really cool, if GM could assign some kind of visual effect for NPC activation (like a cloud of smoke or teleportation effect). Also more atmosphere choices. :)
Posted By: Salva

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 20/10/17 03:34 PM

Hi, not sure if these has already metioned but here it goes:

1. The ability to manipulate turns in combat. Currently it is not possible to do so, but in a tabletop this is possible and I think it should not be so difficult to implement.
2. The ability to manipulate the number of APs of each player and NPCs within the combat. There are actions that occur during a GM game that are not part of the mechanics of the game but are possible in a D&D environment such as trying to push an NPC off a bridge or platform and that should cost APs. Currently, the player is asked to make a simple attack on an irrelevant area to spend those used APs trying to push but the GM should be able to manipulate them.
Another aspect of this topic and the first is that when you move, like Game Master, a player while in combat the game automatically repositions him in the order of combat by modifying his initiative which should not happen because sometimes the GM needs to reposition a player or NPC in combat without this involving a change in the order or initiative of combat.
3. The ability for the GM to take control of a player's character, i. e. a PC, and also the ability to give control of one or more NPCs to a player.
Thanks
Posted By: Drim

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 28/12/17 10:36 PM

PLEASE! Give GM the option to swap colors on Player's gear since there is no dye system. Been requesting mod for it but no replies so please Devs enable it.
Posted By: WMC51

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 06/01/18 05:22 PM

It would be nice if we could update the list or make a new one with the top features people are still asking for.

Fog of war
Adding effects to weapons
Possession just 1 enemy instead of all
GM seeing combat order when not possessing
Scene copy and export
Tie vignette to scene
Character export and import
GM possessing players
Posted By: Dawgmeat

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/01/18 01:48 AM

I’m sure this has been requested on multiple occasions but I would love the ability to save your GM mode in game progress. Granted, you can easily just start players out at the level they ended their last session on but it still requires everyone to run through the character creation process again and remember the loot they have acquired. It’s sucks up a lot of game time that could otherwise be used playing the campaign.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/01/18 09:35 AM

Originally Posted By: Dawgmeat
I’m sure this has been requested on multiple occasions but I would love the ability to save your GM mode in game progress.
You can and always have been able to save your GM Mode game.
Posted By: WMC51

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/01/18 12:54 PM

I wonder if they mean exporting characters to a new campaign
Posted By: Dawgmeat

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 09/01/18 05:44 PM

[quote=Redunzgofasta][quote=Dawgmeat]I’m sure this has been requested on multiple occasions but I would love the ability to save your GM mode in game progress. [/quote] You can and always have been able to save your GM Mode game. [/quote]

That doesn’t appear to be one of my options when I’m running a game. I can save what I’ve built as I’m building it but when I’m actually GMing I don’t have any save buttons.
Posted By: Seter

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 10/01/18 02:27 PM

Hello! I just launched it and confirm that save option is there in Play Mode
https://i.gyazo.com/a9d8b6ce9357259495dead114f2b51dd.jpg

You don't have option only on initial screen when players are selecting their characters.
Posted By: Gondor

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/01/18 03:40 AM

With the ability to create beautiful maps, use great looking effects and observe things in a third dimension, D:OS2 has what is takes to be the next great VTT, especially for battle maps. There are just a few things holding it back.

-It needs to be system agnostic.
-The characters on the screen do not need to have their own stats other than movement, weapon range and action points.
-The cursor should always have distance from character, the way it does now in combat mode. Would also be nice to have be able to use the ruler, like in the divinity engine.
-You need more control over initiative order. In general have better control over turn order.
-The GM needs to be able to take control of the players.

There are other things that could make it better, but they could be implemented at a later time (keeping track of hits and conditions, triggering hit graphics on command, better camera functionality LOS indicator and so on) but these are not necessary to get it going. With the above you could use this game rather than Roll20 or Fantasy Grounds. With the number of users they have, this could be very popular with that community.

The way things are now are great for having people make up and play a personalized Divinity 2 game, and everything is very well done. Making great looking maps is fairly easy and a lot of fun. However; if you want to use this to supplement a more classic style RPG, there are just a few things holding it back.
Posted By: WMC51

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 18/01/18 12:59 PM

A lot of us thought this would be a vtt replacement but there are just to many things it is lacking to replace roll 20 or others. It doesn't seem like they are interested in crossing that market and instead as you stated you can basically run your own personal little dos2 game.

There are a handful of things the game does and a handful of things it doesn't do that will keep it from ever making any ground in tje vtt world. They're listed here amd in several specific post around the forums.

Its fine for what it does but a vtt replacement it is not.
Posted By: Gondor

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 19/01/18 07:10 AM

I think you may be right. It is a shame. This game has all the assets, they are just not put together in such a way that is usable. This does give me hope though, all the materials are out there, someone will soon put it together. Roll20 and others are not moving toward the next generation of vtt. Someone will come out with a better alternative.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 19/01/18 09:39 AM

Originally Posted By: Gondor
I think you may be right. It is a shame. This game has all the assets, they are just not put together in such a way that is usable.

GM Mode is extremely usuable, and on top of that easily modable.
Please remember this is a game and not a VTT, nor does it claim or tries to be one.
Posted By: Shapeshifter777

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/01/18 07:03 PM

The main feature I am wanting / waiting on is to possess only one NPC / creature in combat and allow the rest to remain controlled by the AI, while I only am controlling one.

The easiest way to do this would be to have an 'auto-resolve' button that the GM can click while possessing a creature in combat, that causes the AI to determine what moves the creature takes for its turn.
Posted By: WMC51

Re: - D:OS2 GM Mode - Ideas! - 25/01/18 09:49 PM

Originally Posted By: Shapeshifter777
The main feature I am wanting / waiting on is to possess only one NPC / creature in combat and allow the rest to remain controlled by the AI, while I only am controlling one.

The easiest way to do this would be to have an 'auto-resolve' button that the GM can click while possessing a creature in combat, that causes the AI to determine what moves the creature takes for its turn.


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