Larian Studios

Party size and PC vs Companion composition

Posted By: Omegaphallic

Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 10/07/19 07:42 PM

Do you think it will be like BG 1 or 2 with 1 PC with 3-6 companions or might it be more like Wasteland 2 with 4 PC characters and up to 3 companions? Or perhaps more like Pathfinder with 1 PC and your pick between exchangable mercanries (none Protagonist PCs) and Companions? Something else entirely? Maybe a mix?

I have a feeling it will be closer to Wasteland 2, you start with a small party of PCs, say 4-6 and you can add say 2-4 companions (pets like Beastmaster's Companion, Paladin Steeds, Familiars and such not counting as Companions). I mean it sounds like the party is the protangonist for BG 3 not an single individual like in previous BGs. It also makes one wonder what they mean by gather your party, like how and who is doing the gathering. Is their a party leader. Can the PC (if I'm wrong and their is a single protangonist) be one of the Companions like on Divinity: Original Sin 2?
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 10/07/19 08:54 PM

We do not talk enough about this. It is good to have a threat specifically made to talk about party mechanics and interaction. It was a central point in former bg and IE games. Also in several Larian games.

I´ve had my blast with W2 and the NWN 2 Storm of Zehir campaign. Create a party of 4 and recruit new companions with their own personality, agenda, etc. I liked the middle ground between party creation and companion banters.
But I have to say that the thing I liked the most about Bg games (Also NWN2, DA, P:K, etc) was the companions and the relations with <charname> and the other companions of the party.
I understand If they let you hire and create your own mercenaries ( Games like P:K or DoS2 allow you do that) but I prefer an entire party of sentient, talking companions you can interact to and listen while they talk between them.

One thing I liked about DoS2 is the fact that you can choose your companions´ base class in a dialog before recruiting them. In some d&d NWN2´s mods, you also have this option. It is one of the few mechanics of DoS that you can safely implement in a D&D 5e simulator (And I think most of us agree that is what we want, a D&D based game). That will also let you mix parties that you normally do not take, because they have duplicate roles, etc. You only have to choose the characters and party you like most, all for RP purposes, not utility purposes.
I could be challenging because you do have to create a companions´s background that can adjust to different classes, but It would be worthwhile.


If we say Baldur´s gate: a classic 6-men party. If you have the huge number of roles, skills and classes of 5e (even if they do not let you choose all) I think is a fair number. Also, the more companions, the merrier. In DoS2 they made a mod to be able to have 6 companions anyway, and that mod had like 2KK downloads, so they better do that in the base game so we do not waste time wink


-Can the PC (if I'm wrong and there is a single protagonist) be one of the Companions like on Divinity: Original Sin 2?

It would be awesome. Adds replayability and also allows you to live the adventure in different perspectives. To be able to finish a campaign and later can restart and shape the story of one that was one of your former companions (and usually learn more about them, his/her story and motivations) was refreshing and one of the things I liked the most. That also allows you to have different origins, not the same I-am-a-baalspawn- from-candlekeep (for example) for all characters.

I like that type of details. In DAO the different origins mechanic was masterfully made, but I found in DoS2 the part about the companion-that-can-be-a-MC refreshing. Makes you feel part of a bigger world, not the center of a world specifically made for you.

But in a CRPG game, I expect that you also have the option to create your own character, background, etc and RP according to. Because most of the time that is what you want when creating a character in this type of games. I do not think that would be in question because the game has MP and the devs of larian already took note of it in the kickstarter campaign ( originally in DOS you do not have mercenaries or in DoS2 you were not able to create an original character. The companion origins are still far better than a new character).
Posted By: Omegaphallic

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 10/07/19 09:36 PM

Another to concider is multi-player, which will be in. Will each Player play a different character or will each Player have it's own party?

I think it will be like a mix of Wasteland 2 and Divinity: Original Sin 2.

What I think is we will start with 4 characters that like Divinity OS2 can be starter companions with more depths, or make your own characters with a bit less depth, but still having depth like Divinity: OS2 protagonist, but over time recruit new Companions.

Alternately like P:KM you will have a functionally a pool of party members party members, but if the party itself is the protangonist, there will just be companions and "mercenaries", but the mercenaries will have more depth, interactions, and personality, maybe even banter, then in P: KM, thanks to backgrounds and the decentralized character narrative of BG 3.
Posted By: LostSoul

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 12:26 AM

Some players don't like to 'micro- manage' other party members. Atleast for 'origin' characters give the option for them to auto choose how they upgrade each level.
Iike in DOS2 having the option of playing as different origin characters is fantastic and adds replayability.
Purely optional, but some would like to have the other characters in your party attack controlled by the computer.
Extra campanions, animals/summons etc, is part of DnD so should be present.
Posted By: macadami

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 02:58 AM

I personally am against the whole ‘companions as charname’ 100%
Why? Because I’ve played DoS2 a total of 7 times and completely lost the desire to replay the game. I never even finished it with a true self made character because it became painfully obvious it was the least fleshed out and added zero to the story. All of your possible responses were the generic ones you’ve seen on every other play through with the ‘companions.’ The choices and extent of the story was baked into your decision at the beginning of the game. I’ve replayed The BG series probably close to 50-60 times over the years, and always go back to it due to its complexity in choice that shapes how the rest of your game unfolds. The elf chick and fane were the most powerful and that was that. Any min max gamer was stuck to those two toons in every play through with incredibly little variance due to their predetermined pros and cons. I am hoping BG3 will bring as much desire to replay and try new builds/approaches as Bg1 and 2 by not shoehorning abilities and stats to premade characters that always makes them the better choice over a created PC

I liked their approach in DoS2 for DoS2 and without it, I probably wouldn’t have replayed it 7 times, but it just completely falls flat when compared to BG. Revealing parts of the story only through certain options is fine, but don’t limit those choices to one set of ‘eyes’ and allow any character the ability to experience it through their choices during the game.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 10:51 AM

Honestly its realy hard to say at this point.
It comes down to how the system is implemented.
If we are looking at somehting like OS2, then the difference between PC and NPC will only be wether or not a character is actually played by a Human.
However, this beeing DnD, i cannot see them going that way, or more specifically, i dont want them to.

in OS2 i kind of liked the fixed characters. But then again, thats because i realy liked them, or rather i liekd Red Prince, Lohse and Sebille.
But if i for example wanted to play a Female Dwarf, then id be shit out of luck, because playing a non Origin character is just flat out worse than playing one.Period. You just miss out on the content of one character and feel less connected to the world.

Id personally prefer something like Dragon Ages origin system: a Backstory in which you can full ycreate a character in. a family, a little introduction, a palce in the world but not a pregenerated character.
That however opens another question: how many PC slots are there, what happens to those stories if the PCs arent taking over? Are companions compleltey seperate from the PC origins or are they the "canon" versions of those origins?

on OS2s origins: you realize that origin characters usually have the same options as non origin characters in terms of descision making.
Playing Ifan doesnt realy "force" any descisions on you.
You can even kill the Red Princess as the Red Prince, its just realy stupid to do so.
Posted By: Archaven

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 12:20 PM

This will most likely a 4 party characters. The game is on the hand of Larian. A console developer. Both DOS games were on consoles. So BG3 being on consoles are no brainer. Like it or not this is what it is. If will be turn based with 4 party characters. As I see it DOS2 clone but DND and baldur's gate settings. That's all. Not to mention that 4 party characters are easier to manage on controllers and simpler games will appeal to a bigger audience. That's basically what they wanted. Casualisation is inevitable.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 12:53 PM

My eyes can only roll so hard my dude.
Why would it be 4 players? because Larian made 2 (2! TWO!!!) games with that party size?
And larian is a console developer? Mate! The game isnt even announced for any console.

Dios mio, the ammount of boogeymen living rent free in your mind... you sure you arent an OS2 origin character?
Posted By: kanisatha

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/07/19 02:02 PM

@Archaven, you are correct. Very likely only a party size of 4, which will be another sore point against the game.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/07/19 11:30 AM

No he isnt correct, we dont know if he is.
Stop hyping yourself up with your rigtheus fury rage boner
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/07/19 12:16 PM

In this interview, in 7.40 the interviewer asked Swen Vinke about the origins stories in DoS2 and if they will make a comeback in bg3.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M57vTyM-iE4

Swen answered that It´s a system that will evolve. One of the things that they focus on is the party and personal stories. It was explored [in DoS2] but it was not really explored as I would have wanted. Party will be important but also the Hero [singular] . In this party, each Hero has the story of their origin if you choose that but you can also obviously make your story anyway.
Posted By: Artagel

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/07/19 07:07 PM

Needs to be PC and 5 more party slots you can either create yourself or choose NPC's created by Larian.

Period.
Posted By: Omegaphallic

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 12:40 AM

Originally Posted by Artagel
Needs to be PC and 5 more party slots you can either create yourself or choose NPC's created by Larian.

Period.


I don't think a single character holds the position of "PC", like I said I think the party itself is going to be the "PC" aka the protangonist, I don't think the plot will centre on a single character like it did in BG 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera, Pathfinder: Kingmaker and so on.
Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 01:58 AM

Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Artagel
Needs to be PC and 5 more party slots you can either create yourself or choose NPC's created by Larian.

Period.


I don't think a single character holds the position of "PC", like I said I think the party itself is going to be the "PC" aka the protangonist, I don't think the plot will centre on a single character like it did in BG 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera, Pathfinder: Kingmaker and so on.

I think his point was more about party size, which he wants to be 6.

Personally, so do I. This is another signature element of the series. If they're going to reduce party size to anything below 6, I really hope their reason would be something better than "so that the console crowd would have an easier time playing the game" or "because 6-member party makes balancing/implementing combat too much to handle" or "so that we don't have to create as many companions".
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 02:22 AM

And if they do not, I am pretty sure the first week we will have the "6-men-party" mod version bg3, as they did before. laugh



Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by Artagel
Needs to be PC and 5 more party slots you can either create yourself or choose NPC's created by Larian.

Period.


I don't think a single character holds the position of "PC", like I said I think the party itself is going to be the "PC" aka the protangonist, I don't think the plot will centre on a single character like it did in BG 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera, Pathfinder: Kingmaker and so on.


In this interview, Swen Vincke, CEO of Larian hinted that it is not going to be the case, but we will have to wait and see.

Originally Posted by _Vic_
In this interview, in 7.40 the interviewer asked Swen Vinke about the origins stories in DoS2 and if they will make a comeback in bg3.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M57vTyM-iE4
Party will be important but also the Hero [singular] . In this party, each Hero has the story of their origin if you choose that but you can also obviously make your story anyway.




Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 03:33 AM

The D&D Starter Set for 5E says that it is for 4 to 6 players.
https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/rpg_starterset

The D&D Essentials Kit says it is for 2-6 players. (Look at the top of the Boxes picture.)
https://www.target.com/p/dungeons-dragons-essentials-kit-game/-/A-76151594

So if they wanted to just do 4 players. It is part of the rules. I hope they give us 6 though. smile
Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 07:59 AM

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
The D&D Starter Set for 5E says that it is for 4 to 6 players.
https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/rpg_starterset

The D&D Essentials Kit says it is for 2-6 players. (Look at the top of the Boxes picture.)
https://www.target.com/p/dungeons-dragons-essentials-kit-game/-/A-76151594

So if they wanted to just do 4 players. It is part of the rules. I hope they give us 6 though. smile


A "Starter Set" and an "Essential Kit"? Are you serious? How do these suggested numbers of players have anything to do with BG3?

This game is not a freaking tabletop game that actually involves 6 human beings. This is a video game in which things are processed by a computer. There is only you and your computer. It's a video game, so you don't have to worry about having too many people taking up room space and needing more chairs and tables and there being too much "socializing" and whatnot.

The Critical Role campaigns handle 7-8 players all the time.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 08:42 AM

No it is not a table top game. It is a computer game that is adhereing to the D&D rules as closely as possible, which has be suggested by the Swen in the interviews he as given. The Dungeon Master guide is geared with a straight forward XP and encounter tables for 4 players. (It has adjustments that can be made for more players if you are have them.

In the free Basic rules, it only has for races, and four classes available. Suggesting that there would be four players.

As I said, I understand why they would only give us 4 players, but I am hoping for 6.

Critical Role is not the norm. Look at Dice, Camera, Action or Acquisitions INC - The A team or the C team. Most only have 4 players.

4 seems to be the Norm and 8 is not the Norm. I hope they meet in the middle and give us 6
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 10:58 AM

Oh man, critical role.
I wish people would stop thinking critical role is an accurate representation of DnD.
one of the biggest blights on the hobby, next to Sir bearington greentexts.

that beeing said, its prolly gonna be 6 PCs, they are obviously trying out higher numbers of units per side with the Divinity Spinoff (yes i know thats made by another company)
Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
It is a computer game that is adhereing to the D&D rules as closely as possible.

It's also supposedly the sequel to an established franchise, in which a party of 6 is a core element. Both "4" and "6" are in your "rules", and there's no rule that says "4" is closer to the rules than "6", so your "adhering to rules" argument is completely meaningless. Not to mention Larian has the ability to change the rules if necessary.

Originally Posted by Sordak
Oh man, critical role.
I wish people would stop thinking critical role is an accurate representation of DnD.
one of the biggest blights on the hobby, next to Sir bearington greentexts.

Ah here we go again with the hate and the "my opinion is superior compared to yours" attitude. What's the word again? You can have your canned opinion, that's fine too. By this point everyone on the forums knows that aside from your worship for "TB combat in general" you hate practically everything else. We got that, loud and clear. Do let us know when you're about to announce you like something.

I mentioned Critical Role just for the "party size" argument. The point was that, there isn't any real "rule" in regard to that. As long as it is manageable and it works for the scope of the game. And there's no reason why a party size of 6 would not work or would be unmanageable in BG3, because it has been done in 20-year-old games to which it claims to be a sequel.

No one has claimed "critical role is an accurate representation of DnD" yet, but some people just can't resist showing off their hate and bitterness every chance they get. It's truly an amazing world we live in.

Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 11:52 AM

Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
It is a computer game that is adhereing to the D&D rules as closely as possible.

It's also supposedly the sequel to an established franchise, in which a party of 6 is a core element. Both "4" and "6" are in your "rules", and there's no rule that says "4" is closer to the rules than "6", so your "adhering to rules" argument is completely meaningless. Not to mention Larian has the ability to change the rules if necessary.


Do you just read a whole post before you reply or just pick something out to argue about.? I also said this

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
As I said, I understand why they would only give us 4 players, but I am hoping for 6.

Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 09:22 PM

@Nobody_Special
You spent one whole paragraph to argue that the game "tries to adhere to rules as closely as possible", which was supposedly the reason why you said "I understand why they would make a party size of 4". You also cited two examples that have nothing to do with the game, a "starter set" and an "essential kit". You would "understand" because "it's part of the rules". That was your argument. And that's why I pointed out that, that reasoning is dumb. "What you hope for" is irrelevant.

Are we clear about this now? Good.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 10:00 PM

Originally Posted by Try2Handing
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
It is a computer game that is adhereing to the D&D rules as closely as possible.

It's also supposedly the sequel to an established franchise, in which a party of 6 is a core element. Both "4" and "6" are in your "rules", and there's no rule that says "4" is closer to the rules than "6", so your "adhering to rules" argument is completely meaningless. Not to mention Larian has the ability to change the rules if necessary.


First they are not my rules they are WotC rules written on their products or product pages. Thus the links above.
I was not arguing that there should be only 4, just stating where 4 players might come into play.

I explained that the Tables in the DMG are gear towards a party of 4.

I explained that most games being played on the internet are with 4 people.

I also said I can see where Larian might just give us just 4 players.

I ALSO said I hope they give us 6 players.

So don't come at me with the idea that I am against having a party of 6.

Are we Clear Now? Good
Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 13/07/19 11:31 PM

It’s obvious to me who is the one who’s not “clear” here.

No, you’re not against a party size of 6; that’s obvious enough. You can hope for whatever you want, I simply don’t care. That’s not the point.

Imagine they implement a party size of 4, then explain to players the reason for that is because of any one of the things you “explained”. That would be beyond dumb to me, but I suppose there are also players like you who would readily accept that kind of explanation.

What I’m saying is, if they would make this kind of change to a core element such as this, fans of the original games, including me, would expect a much better reason than anything you have come up with so far.

“Because the DMG is geared...” - when Larian has free reign to create a game scope and to balance the game in a way such that a party of 6 should not be a problem? When the two 20-year-old original games already established a party size of 6?

“Most games played on the internet” - what games? The Starter Set and the Essential Kit? You must be joking. And what do they have to do with BG3?

No, you’re not arguing that the party size should be 4. You’re just citing the most ridiculous reasons why you would accept it if Larian gives you that. But I suppose you have the right to have low expectations.
Posted By: vometia

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 14/07/19 04:13 AM

Er, guys, how about you stick to arguing about the party size (or even agreeing, as the case may be) instead of arguing about who said what about the party size...?
Posted By: Try2Handing

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 14/07/19 05:57 AM

Some people are just no good at comprehending what someone else is really saying and what that person's points really are. Before you know it, it becomes a game of repeating yourself and explaining what you really said in previous posts.

But this one's on me. I started it. I'll try harder to refrain from questioning comments that I find too dumb to bother with. My bad.
Posted By: Artagel

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 15/07/19 03:59 AM

Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
I don't think a single character holds the position of "PC", like I said I think the party itself is going to be the "PC" aka the protangonist, I don't think the plot will centre on a single character like it did in BG 1 & 2, Pillars of Eternity 1 & 2, Planescape Torment, Tides of Numenera, Pathfinder: Kingmaker and so on.

Any particular reason you think this?

Just curious. I have not read any recent updates.
Posted By: Lemernis

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 15/07/19 10:25 AM

I'm actually hoping that BG3 does indeed feel like a tabletop game in a lot of respects==which if the AI is good enough will include not just simulation of a GM but also that the other party members... and in SP mode this means joinable NPCs... think and behave for themselves independently but also synergistically with the decisions that I as a player controlling just my PC makes.

Up to six party members as such.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 15/07/19 11:59 AM

thatd be nice , but i doubt it, that would be some serious AI stuff, even having a dynamic "AI DM" would be quite the new thing
Posted By: Lemernis

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 16/07/19 10:33 AM

Having the game engine simulate the role of the DM is a main goal that both Vinke and Mearles keep repeating though, along with saying their aim is for BG3 to "revolutionize" the CRPG genre.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 16/07/19 02:28 PM

yeah ok, but thats marketing talk.
the Game engine already simulates the DM by rolling the dice for you, having pre placed monsters and NPCs, that sort of stuff.
What you discribe would be something ackin to the defunct Everquest Next.

I can see larian attempting to do something like that, but i dont think theyll do it with BG3, from how i see it, BG3 will be very much a CRPG with fixed quests, enemies, potentially no respawning ones like the OS games and a set story.
Posted By: Archaven

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 17/07/19 08:41 AM

I can't wait to read arguments from someone here about 4 party characters will be more tactical /s.

this is my take. It's high possibility it's 4 party character perhaps with 1 added DM. as I said it's a DOS clone. I really hope Larian prove me wrong.

But we will all see smile
Posted By: Lemernis

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 17/07/19 10:06 AM

Originally Posted by Sordak
yeah ok, but thats marketing talk.
the Game engine already simulates the DM by rolling the dice for you, having pre placed monsters and NPCs, that sort of stuff.
What you discribe would be something ackin to the defunct Everquest Next.

I can see larian attempting to do something like that, but i dont think theyll do it with BG3, from how i see it, BG3 will be very much a CRPG with fixed quests, enemies, potentially no respawning ones like the OS games and a set story.


Oh yeah, what they will actually be able to achieve in that aspect is a whole other matter!
Posted By: Artagel

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 17/07/19 11:41 AM

Originally Posted by Lemernis
Having the game engine simulate the role of the DM is a main goal that both Vinke and Mearles keep repeating though, along with saying their aim is for BG3 to "revolutionize" the CRPG genre.

Maybe they keep repeating it because there really will be a DM as a player choice.... because it's a multiplayer only game.....?

Who the hell knows....
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 17/07/19 02:28 PM

In DoS2 you had the possibility to use the "DM mode" in your custom campaign (not in the OC) I hope they keep it that way in BG3.
Posted By: Omegaphallic

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 18/07/19 12:54 AM

Originally Posted by Archaven
I can't wait to read arguments from someone here about 4 party characters will be more tactical /s.

this is my take. It's high possibility it's 4 party character perhaps with 1 added DM. as I said it's a DOS clone. I really hope Larian prove me wrong.

But we will all see smile


They have already proven you wrong, the graphics art style is radically different from DOS 2, it's rules style is modified D&D 5e very different from DOS2, the setting is, different from DOS2, and more.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 18/07/19 11:01 AM

Yeah sure multiplayer only.
Persecution complex at work.

At this point i hope the game will be a 4 player turn based chess game specifically set in chult, and Bhaal is never mentioned, and you read in an off colour remark that "the drow gets poisoned" ending is canon , just to see you rage
Posted By: vometia

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 18/07/19 03:27 PM

Stop sniping, guys. You can make your point without snarking at each other.
Posted By: melianos

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 30/08/19 07:11 AM

I'm raising the topic from the dead to ask if we have had more info on this ?
And just to be mean with everyone I'll vote for 5 PC in the group. Because with 5 demonologists we could make enhanced invocations.

(Actually I'd prefer 3 PC in the party because I don't like micro-managing much but I know I'm a minority out there).
Posted By: Vecna

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/09/19 08:01 AM

I prefer up to six just like in BG2. It gives more depth, especially if the npc's are interesting and banter with each other.
Posted By: kanisatha

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/09/19 01:09 PM

Well as people have already pointed out, the big reason Larian would go with four is their huge emphasis on co-op/MP play. But I personally very strongly prefer six, and believe it is possible at least on this issue to satisfy a wide range of preferences. They could make party size of four as the default for the game, and lock that in for MP, but allow players to have a party of upto six when playing SP with the understanding that the game may be unbalanced with anything over four. After all, people do like playing with party size of one as well, and that too makes for an unbalanced game, so why not allow players to go in the other direction as well and have a party size bigger than the default?
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/09/19 01:35 PM

Due to tradition in DoS larian games, Coop-MP, and because most D&D 5 campaigns are about 4 to 5 players (and they said that they are based in tabletop) I think they are going to settle around a party of 4-5.
But I also think that sooner rather than later will appear a mod to make a party of six anyway, like in the previous games of Larian. They should spare us the wait and make an option to have a bigger party =P
Posted By: kanisatha

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 11/09/19 05:19 PM

Yes exactly. Why wait on a mod to give it to us and instead gain some measure of appreciation and goodwill from fans of the old BG games by just giving us a togglable option to raise party size upto six just for single-player? It really won't even cost them anything because as I said they could provide a disclaimer saying the game is optimized for four so increasing party size can unbalance the player's game experience, then leave it upto us to decide whether that is worth it for us.
Posted By: Artagel

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Vecna
I prefer up to six just like in BG2. It gives more depth, especially if the npc's are interesting and banter with each other.

I agree with this.

Also, can I have your Ring.

Need it.
Posted By: Artagel

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 02:09 AM

Originally Posted by _Vic_
Due to tradition in DoS larian games.... I think they are going to settle around a party of 4-5

Makes sense... this is DoS 3 now, I guess.

lol
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 06:16 AM

Originally Posted by Artagel
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Due to tradition in DoS larian games.... I think they are going to settle around a party of 4-5

Makes sense... this is DoS 3 now, I guess.

lol

They already stated that they are going to use use Larian´s Divinity engine 4.0 (DoS2 EE was 3.5)
https://fextralife.com/baldurs-gate-3-interview-with-larian-and-wizards-of-the-coast/
Posted By: Hawke

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 01:15 PM

Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Artagel
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Due to tradition in DoS larian games.... I think they are going to settle around a party of 4-5

Makes sense... this is DoS 3 now, I guess.

lol

They already stated that they are going to use use Larian´s Divinity engine 4.0 (DoS2 EE was 3.5)
https://fextralife.com/baldurs-gate-3-interview-with-larian-and-wizards-of-the-coast/


Another one who has no idea what a game engine is. No, the game engine has nothing to do with the number of party members that you can recruit. This a something you can put in every single engine on this planet with a few simple lines of script.
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 01:36 PM

I am not an expert, but a good game engine takes care of resource management (images, sound, data files), rendering on a stable framerate, etc amongst other things, but has limitations. Unity, for example, is famous for its limitations if you are going for a larger game area or high Unit count games, due to several problems and because it´s closed source (it's a 32 bit floating point precision limits it's physics to a 10 km cubed space, so no big epic space battles.It's game objects that do not self pool, so you need to drag out the pool manager, pool-able component scripts for anything with object turnover rates. Even though it has an aging stuttery garbage collection system.The fact that the API still does not do multi-threading, even though it uses a modular component based scripting system and internally runs a multi-threaded jobs core.The vectors, transforms and quaternions that do not have a batch based SIMD powered or multi-threaded API.The lack of instancing even though it's been a common feature of DirectX and OpenGL since 2009.The lack of Mantle, DirectX 12 and Vulkan support being addressed but was not even on the Roadmap)


But I hope you are right, they can manage it with a "few lines of script" and we can have 6 party members.
Posted By: kanisatha

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 02:11 PM

Originally Posted by Hawke
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Originally Posted by Artagel
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Due to tradition in DoS larian games.... I think they are going to settle around a party of 4-5

Makes sense... this is DoS 3 now, I guess.

lol

They already stated that they are going to use use Larian´s Divinity engine 4.0 (DoS2 EE was 3.5)
https://fextralife.com/baldurs-gate-3-interview-with-larian-and-wizards-of-the-coast/


Another one who has no idea what a game engine is. No, the game engine has nothing to do with the number of party members that you can recruit. This a something you can put in every single engine on this planet with a few simple lines of script.

Ultimately I think this is the real issue. It's not about whether party size of 4 or 6 is what is appropriate for a game called BG3, or even a decision based on limitations of the game system or technology. Rather, this, and all other choices (ex. the combat system, misses in combat "not fun," etc.) are being made purely on the basis of one criterion: what is best for co-op/multiplayer? That seems to be the definitive driver of all the game design choices Larian is making. And *that* is absolutely a dealbreaker for me.

The game needs to have been designed and built from the ground up to maximize the single-player gaming experience first and foremost, and so what is ideal for the SP game is what ought to have driven game design choices. If this is not the case, then definitely it is not a game for me. And labeling and marketing a game that was not built this way as an SP game would be blatant false advertising. All of the IE games had MP, but it was very clear from all the marketing for those games, everything that the devs said about the games before they were released. and from even a short amount of time spent playing the games that those games were designed as SP games first and foremost and that all design choices were made with SP in mind.
Posted By: vometia

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 03:58 PM

Originally Posted by Hawke
Another one who has no idea what a game engine is. No, the game engine has nothing to do with the number of party members that you can recruit. This a something you can put in every single engine on this planet with a few simple lines of script.

I think there are more diplomatic ways of phrasing things. I think the point is that some game engines are better optimised for that type of thing than others, though of course the precise definition of "game engine" is a moving target. See also the Chambers Dictionary's definition of "middle aged": "variously reckoned to suit the reckoner."
Posted By: LostSoul

Re: Party size and PC vs Companion composition - 12/09/19 09:40 PM

You will more likely find that "designed and built from the ground up" for a DnD experience not "single-player" although there is plenty of subjectivity and nuance in the term. Dos2 was imo as both playable enjoyable in SP and MP
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