Larian Studios

BG3 vs Realms beyond

Posted By: Braveheart

BG3 vs Realms beyond - 19/07/19 05:09 PM

Realms beyond is another turn based D&D game (V3.5) that will include the tool-set for us to create our own campaigns. Should BG3 give us the keys and let us create our own campaigns also? Considering it could be a direct competition, or do you all believe it's not necessary?
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 19/07/19 06:17 PM

Larian Studio's provided a tool -set with Divinity Original Sin 2 so I do not see a reason that they wouldn't provide one for BG3 since they have stated that BG3 is going to be there biggest RPG game they have created yet. This leads me to believe we will get everything that DOS2 had and more.
Posted By: LostSoul

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 19/07/19 08:40 PM

Another good option: allow a human DM manage the base story.
Posted By: Braveheart

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 19/07/19 11:57 PM

Yes but how in depth will the campaign editor be? Are we able to script boss/monsters in detail and alter NPC behaviors with an in depth dialog editor? How about traps and triggers or ambush mechanics? How about a map editor that will let us create dungeons/overland from scratch? Things like secret doors or traps should be editable (perception/trickery) with regards to their difficulty? Can we make an enemy drop a key to open a door? Or can we edit objects like desks/drawers/pillars/coffins/walls and so on?

I personally have never played DOS2 nor used the editor, but having a makeshift editor just to please the crowd is one thing and actually having one that gives us all the assets without limits is another? We should be able to create BG4 with the toolset, that's how powerful it should be?
Posted By: Sordak

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 20/07/19 07:13 AM

well how about you look up a video then
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 20/07/19 07:38 AM

Here are the tutorials on the editor and what you can do.



Here is where they took a campaign that Larian created to show off at WotC. I think this is what won WotC over so that Larian got the Licience.
Larian recreated "Lost Mines of Phandelver in DOS2".


Posted By: _Vic_

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 20/07/19 10:29 AM

The guys of Solasta, also a small dev. studio, declined to make a toolset for budget and time constraints. It is good to see that the ones in Realms Beyond offered this option.
I think any crpg game in our time who wants to last needs to provide tools for modders and campaign creators.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 21/07/19 12:30 PM

Originally Posted by Braveheart
Realms beyond is another turn based D&D game (V3.5) that will include the tool-set for us to create our own campaigns. Should BG3 give us the keys and let us create our own campaigns also? Considering it could be a direct competition, or do you all believe it's not necessary?


Not just the toolset, but also guidelines for asset import. And tools to support that, ideally. Not to mention, the engine is supposed to be relatively open (except the UI, however).
Posted By: Braveheart

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 22/07/19 03:14 AM

SO I just found out that DOS2 has only a DM mode editor and no stand alone editor, meaning you can create a campaign and let other's play only if a DM hosts. Now maybe there is a way in the future to create campaigns and let people run it without a DM. I saw the video and the editor is pretty good for DOS2, I woudn't mind if we get something like that for BG3 and more.

I do want however to be able to have the OPTION to create campaigns designed to be hosted by a DM OR to create campaigns without a DM, meaning that you can play solo with an AI custom party and run the campaign in that fashion.
Posted By: _Vic_

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 22/07/19 04:01 AM

Excuse me if I did not understand you correctly, but as far as I know, you can download single or coop campaigns and play them. You can activate or deactivate the DM mode at will so you can play directly the campaign (but you have the possibility to enter DM mode if you wish to).


Like this one: https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1356308905
Posted By: LostSoul

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 22/07/19 07:47 AM

People HAVE made story mode type campaigns they have designed with quests, NPC etc that do not need a DM. Ive played a few of them.
If the tools are as good as i hope, a dev could put current DND campaigns into the game to have even more content!
WoTC could be involved if the game is as good as we all hope.
Posted By: Redunzgofasta

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 23/07/19 05:08 PM

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Here are the tutorials on the editor and what you can do.



That's not the editor, that is GM Mode.
Originally Posted by Braveheart
SO I just found out that DOS2 has only a DM mode editor and no stand alone editor

Not true.
The editor is called The Divinity Engine 2 and is a seperate download and let's you do just about anything. Create stand alone adventures or make maps/scenes for GM Mode.

After launch, Realms Beyond will also get a DM Mode.
I have to say I am very curious about that as DM Mode is what brought me to DOS2 to begin with and is a must have for me to even buy BG3.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 23/07/19 06:25 PM

Originally Posted by Redunzgofasta
Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Here are the tutorials on the editor and what you can do.



That's not the editor, that is GM Mode.
.


Hmm it was suppose to link to the entire playlist which included the editor (toolset). So here is the link with out embedding the video.

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLE13woN-fNgu6IuHZguk-VJE6xWCHh9bJ
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 23/07/19 06:27 PM

I wonder why I can't see anything in Chrome
Posted By: Braveheart

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 24/07/19 02:13 AM

Ya all we see on YouTube is GM mode tutorials, no stand alone tutorials. But deep scripting is possible but it should also be user friendly.
Posted By: Seelenernter

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 25/07/19 03:39 PM

Keeping an eye on that game and team for quite some time now. Looks at least interesting. Sadly one thing gives me a headache... literally... the projection method used. Their strange mix between military/bird eye projection and dimetric with some iso aspects causes quite a bit of eye strain for me with even the vids alone. Kinda worried how this will work out playing the whole game...
Sadly they also added some questionable ruleset changes, for example: no spell preparation in general, but still it sounds way less intrusive than what Larian seems to be planning...

What's imho really great is their approach on the modding capabilities! They already confirmed they try to implement as few stuff as possible in hardcoded fashion. The goal seems to be to at least have enough room to wiggle for modders to implement different D&D editions. Hopefully they can achieve it, and maybe that'll be even enough for other rulesets. *crosses fingers*
DOS2 was a real letdown in that regard for me. No idea how much has changed since, but the first months after release all the status effect interactions and a lot of meta data connected to them was hardcoded and made the use both very limited and a pita to use. Even more so without some 3rd party tools.
Unworthy of a met modding stretch goal... (IMHO)
Posted By: Braveheart

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 25/07/19 05:55 PM

I know Neverwinter online got rid of the "foundry" campaign editor, but the editor itself was user-friendly at least compared to the quest and dialog scripting of DOS2.
So, I would like BG3's editor not too overwhelming in that you won't need programming 101 to be able to overcome a simple creation of quests/dialog puzzles. At least if in that aspect it wants to compete with realms beyond. Cause if realms beyond has a more comprehensive editor people will ditch BG3's editor and create stuff for the ladder. Now I'm not saying that BG3 won't be successful since each game has a good base of players even if each game uses different versions of DnD rule set.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: BG3 vs Realms beyond - 26/07/19 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Seelenernter
Keeping an eye on that game and team for quite some time now. Looks at least interesting. Sadly one thing gives me a headache... literally... the projection method used. Their strange mix between military/bird eye projection and dimetric with some iso aspects causes quite a bit of eye strain for me with even the vids alone. Kinda worried how this will work out playing the whole game...
Sadly they also added some questionable ruleset changes, for example: no spell preparation in general, but still it sounds way less intrusive than what Larian seems to be planning...

What's imho really great is their approach on the modding capabilities! They already confirmed they try to implement as few stuff as possible in hardcoded fashion. The goal seems to be to at least have enough room to wiggle for modders to implement different D&D editions. Hopefully they can achieve it, and maybe that'll be even enough for other rulesets. *crosses fingers*
DOS2 was a real letdown in that regard for me. No idea how much has changed since, but the first months after release all the status effect interactions and a lot of meta data connected to them was hardcoded and made the use both very limited and a pita to use. Even more so without some 3rd party tools.
Unworthy of a met modding stretch goal... (IMHO)


Same thing about DOS2 for me. They hardcoded the statuses, elements and talents, which were some of the nicest things to have available. Not to mention, one I was told (for elements) it would be available.

Just to clarify, the No Spell Preparation means that spellcasters are spontaneous in general, but that's it - otherwise progression is the same as the class name. I'm more upset about the lack of wizard specialisation (definitely not in) and the fact that there's way too many things still not approved (such as spell components or how prestige classes will work).

"Their strange mix between military/bird eye projection and dimetric with some iso aspects causes quite a bit of eye strain for me with even the vids alone"

What do you mean by this?
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