Larian Studios

NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs?

Posted By: Tuco

NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:24 AM

In this interview they are claiming that the game will have no day/night cycle at all.

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-gate-3-pax-east-interview-listening-to-fan-feedback-adding-raytracing/

Honestly this is the first thing I'm genuinely pissed about. I don't even want to hear the justifications about how it's a costly feature.

They are blowing basically unlimited budget on this goddamn production, I'm sure they could have spared a percentage of the budget to account for that.
It would also be a long term investment, as they'd be able to recycle the tech (variable lighting, time passing, scheduling, etc) for each of their subsequent titles, in some form.
Posted By: kungfukappa

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:27 AM

They also say that there will be no random encounters at the end. Double sad.
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
They also say that there will be no random encounters at the end. Double sad.

That's absolutely trivial in comparison.
Random encounters would be a thing that triggers only traveling between locations, anyway. And it would take virtually no effort to implement a dozen of them in the last month of development.

Conversely, no nigh/day cycle is going to set a large number of limitations on the flexibility of the setting.
Posted By: kungfukappa

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:34 AM

okay, sure, my opinion is trivial compared to yours.

wtf is wrong with gamers these days. i'm out of here, Larian.
Posted By: azarhal

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:42 AM

All the camp scenes shown were at night. There is a concept of days in the game and it's quite possible certain quests/events/area are set at night as the story progress.

People keep saying the game is a clone of DOS2, but I see more a clone of Dragon Age personally.

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
They also say that there will be no random encounters at the end. Double sad.


It says no procedurrally created encounters are in the game. BG1/BG2 random encounters were all handcrafted as were the ones in Dragon Age Origins, Pillars of Eternity 2 and even Pathfinder Kingmaker. They just trigger randomly while you travel.
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
okay, sure, my opinion is trivial compared to yours.

wtf is wrong with gamers these days. i'm out of here, Larian.

You can't even follow the logical thread of conversations you butt in, somehow.

You made a complaint that isn't related to the thread and I explained to you why it's not that much relevant.
As the user above me pointed in even greater detail, these games rarely EVER relied on random encounters to begin with.
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:01 AM

Thx Tuco for reposting from Steam, I also am worried for the first time about this even tho I have no brains for this to contribute to topic but It should be greatly discussed.. We need EA ASAP...
Posted By: Madaras

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:04 AM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
okay, sure, my opinion is trivial compared to yours.

wtf is wrong with gamers these days. i'm out of here, Larian.


Neither opinion is trivial. Random encounters are handy because they help to level you when you're stuck. There are many times when playing divinity OS II that I wish I could have leveled by grinding a bit.

Day Night Cycle would be nice for me for two reasons. One, I like vampires, but their nocturnal nature seems to have been "resolved" by the tadpole so I can get over that. However, two I like to steal and daylight thieving is a dumb idea.

That all said if they are planning the game to have a time limit then each day following the story will have to be meaningful. So I can understand them not implementing it.

One way i think they could implement "random" encounters would be to have some planned encounters that randomly get seeded into each game. That or if you do "certain" things it would trigger an encounter. Such as killing a random NPC there is no point in killing or slaughtering a herd of cows for XP.
Posted By: Omegaphallic

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:09 AM

Originally Posted by azarhal
All the camp scenes shown were at night. There is a concept of days in the game and it's quite possible certain quests/events/area are set at night as the story progress.

People keep saying the game is a clone of DOS2, but I see more a clone of Dragon Age personally.

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
They also say that there will be no random encounters at the end. Double sad.


It says no procedurrally created encounters are in the game. BG1/BG2 random encounters were all handcrafted as were the ones in Dragon Age Origins, Pillars of Eternity 2 and even Pathfinder Kingmaker. They just trigger randomly while you travel.


This is an excellent point that I hadn't thought of.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:15 AM

Originally Posted by From the Divinity Original Sin FAQ.

Will Divinity Original Sin 2 have a Day and Night Cycle?

No, we have no plans to introduce a day and night cycle. What we're trying to do at the narrative & scripting level is really complicated, so to even contemplate adding yet another extra dimension of complexity to that gives us a headache. The impact of the player origins combined with a higher level of freedom than the already insane amount of freedom you had in Divinity: Original Sin, added to the options required for multiplayer mode already means that our development is going to be hugely complex. Until we tame all of that, we won't add an extra layer. Perhaps for another game, but definitely not for this one.


edit: I forgot to link the Kickstarter FAQ and put a 2 after sin
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin-2/faqs

This is another Game!!! No night was really the only thing I hated about DOS2. Most monsters are Nocturnal. You giving them all Tadpoles too? (Jumping back on the fence)

[Linked Image]
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:30 AM

Imagine that.
If someone asked me beforehand "Look, we can either have a night/day cycle with consequent NPC scheduling OR we can get a bunch of characters origins" I would have provbably answered "Look, feel free to shove your character origins up you asses. Let's go ahead full steam with that daily cycle",
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 07:35 AM

Hmmm 🤔
Not sure I like the sound of no Day/Night cycle if that is true. Wonder if they’re going to script it instead, I.e. party has conversation about doing mission x that evening and then it switches to night time until you’re done.
Posted By: Nickolaidas

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 08:19 AM

This sucks and takes away from the immersion quite a lot.

Like others said, many monsters in D&D are nocturnal and fighting undead in broad daylight is kinda eh …

Unless they pull a Divinity Original Sin where the time of day will magically shift as you go from one area to another (i.e. always get dark once you approach the cemetery).
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 09:19 AM

This really bothers me.
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 09:22 AM

Well crap, no day / night cycle apparently:

Quote
During the original Divinity: Original Sin crowdfunding campaign on Kickstarter, the very last stretch goal mentioned a day and night cycle, NPC schedules and weather systems. All of these could have impacted NPCs, monsters and magic. Do you still discuss the possibility of making a truly simulated game world at some point in the future?

Adam: I do in my own head constantly. I think it's a very different game. One of my favorite games of all time is Ultima Seven and it was the first game that I played that had proper NPC behaviors. You could wait for someone to go to the pub and then you could rob their shop. I love stuff like that, but a game that's built like that does very different things. We are very, very story focused as well and there's things that you lose. Also: multiplayer. We're a multiplayer game and day-night cycles in multiplayer becomes incredibly complicated. We're doing so many really complex things already that we know are going to be really good that, on top of that, it wouldn't fit this game.

I love simulated worlds and we have a lot of that stuff in there. We don't do the day-night cycle but we do the things where things in the world happen because you caused them to happen and they can happen off-screen. So, there are things happening off-screen. The world isn't just what you see on your screen. There are events that happen and things that will, because of the choices you've made, things will happen elsewhere. Those are real, those are systemic. Our systems are running in the background the whole time. There are incredibly deep systems. Some of them don't make sense for this game, but yeah, we think about it and we've talked about it.


what a lame excuse.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 09:24 AM

Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
I read from reddit that it's been confirmed that as a vampire you can "harvest" people while they sleep, which would hint that a night / day cycle will be somehow implemented. Not sure if it's the same as BG where you can just rest for 8 hours by pressing a button. Then again this game seems to have some sort of a time limit with the tadpole, so maybe resting at will won't fit into that very well.


You feed from your companions at camp.
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 09:26 AM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
I read from reddit that it's been confirmed that as a vampire you can "harvest" people while they sleep, which would hint that a night / day cycle will be somehow implemented. Not sure if it's the same as BG where you can just rest for 8 hours by pressing a button. Then again this game seems to have some sort of a time limit with the tadpole, so maybe resting at will won't fit into that very well.


You feed from your companions at camp.


Yeah, I somehow figured you could attack enemy camps at night. Apparently not! This is quite a dissapointment.
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 09:31 AM

Then again it all depends on how the lack of a day / night cycle will be implemented. A lot of RPG games don't have a day / night cycle, for example Vampire the Masquarade : Bloodlines which despite it faults is an excellent RPG.
Posted By: vometia

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 10:34 AM

Same deal with the Dragon Ages where areas had a fixed time of day. I would've preferred a proper day/night cycle but at least it gave an illusion that there was one, kinda sorta.
Posted By: LaserOstrich

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 10:55 AM

We have almost no idea about the most things that Baldurs Gate 3 has to offer,
maybe no one will ever notice the missing day/night-cycle again once we start playing,
because it's simply... true, what Adam said,
and it doesn't fit, and the game is really good anyway?
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:22 AM

Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
Then again it all depends on how the lack of a day / night cycle will be implemented. A lot of RPG games don't have a day / night cycle, for example Vampire the Masquarade : Bloodlines which despite it faults is an excellent RPG.


That's true but for a valid reason: it would have been incredibly tedious to wait 8 hours out.
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:30 AM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
Then again it all depends on how the lack of a day / night cycle will be implemented. A lot of RPG games don't have a day / night cycle, for example Vampire the Masquarade : Bloodlines which despite it faults is an excellent RPG.


That's true but for a valid reason: it would have been incredibly tedious to wait 8 hours out.


Well there was the sewer system, which they could have made just as elaborate as the overworld had they wanted to. They just chose not to incorporate time as a gameplay mechanic. IMO it would have been quite interesting for a vampire game to have a proper day / night cycle.

Point is, a day / night cycle does not a good role playing game make and vice versa. It's all in the execution.
Posted By: Wormerine

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:32 AM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
They also say that there will be no random encounters at the end. Double sad.

None of it is surprising. Where would random encounters be placed? It is unlikely it will contain multiple smaller location. D:OS2 consisted of couple big, open zones. BG3 early access will consist of the first zone, so it is safe to assume it will have similar structure.

It’s shame that Larian won’t be experimenting with day&night circle. With their systemic approach, it’s something they could actually do interesting stuff with.
Posted By: Ugmaro

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 03:22 PM

Originally Posted by vometia
Same deal with the Dragon Ages where areas had a fixed time of day. I would've preferred a proper day/night cycle but at least it gave an illusion that there was one, kinda sorta.


Kinda sorta, yeah...

The thing that gets me is that they keep on saying this is D&D 5e but the more I look at it the more I see divergence from the system. While the day/night cycle might seem completely irrelevant it affects other things. If you remove that you're basically removing the exhaustion mechanic (and one part of why rest is important), which in turn affects spells like greater restoration. I personally prefer to be drowned in spell choices (as is the case in D&D 5e) than to have it dumbed down to the point where I'm always spamming 1 spell and never looking at any of the alternatives.

From what I've seen so far I doubt a bunch of well developed D&D mechanics like turning to stone, curses or poisoning will be placed in the game either. I like that the game is story driven but I think they've made some massive mistakes, the main one being that they said it's the 5e rules while they're too afraid to actually implement them. Simply never saying that sentance would've made my expectations for the game completely different and I could've gotten behind almost anything.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 04:04 PM

To me without a day and night cycle and the need for torches and light spells as well as the nocturnal monsters. This supposedly triple A-game to a Double A-game.

Please don't take my A away and give me A Day and night cycle.
Posted By: azarhal

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 04:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by vometia
Same deal with the Dragon Ages where areas had a fixed time of day. I would've preferred a proper day/night cycle but at least it gave an illusion that there was one, kinda sorta.


Kinda sorta, yeah...

The thing that gets me is that they keep on saying this is D&D 5e but the more I look at it the more I see divergence from the system. While the day/night cycle might seem completely irrelevant it affects other things. If you remove that you're basically removing the exhaustion mechanic (and one part of why rest is important), which in turn affects spells like greater restoration. I personally prefer to be drowned in spell choices (as is the case in D&D 5e) than to have it dumbed down to the point where I'm always spamming 1 spell and never looking at any of the alternatives.

From what I've seen so far I doubt a bunch of well developed D&D mechanics like turning to stone, curses or poisoning will be placed in the game either. I like that the game is story driven but I think they've made some massive mistakes, the main one being that they said it's the 5e rules while they're too afraid to actually implement them. Simply never saying that sentance would've made my expectations for the game completely different and I could've gotten behind almost anything.


It's not because there is no day/night cycle that exhaustion won't be in the game. Exhaustion has nothing do to with day/night cycle in 5e. It's tied to using Forced March for more than 8 consecutive hours and special abilities/hazard/extreme temperature exposure. Forced March will probably not be in, but the other things might be.

It was confirmed that you will need to rest in the game, for both mechanical (regain spells/HP) and story reasons. There is a passage of time in the game, it's just not a full simulation of a day/night cycle.

Also, Greater Restoration is used for other things than regaining a level of exhaustion. You're brain process of equaling no day/night cycle = no curse or petrify is super weird. DOS2 has permanent curse status and petrify that required very specific abilities to remove.
Posted By: dlux

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 04:20 PM

Lame, but "Baldur's Gate 3" has the body and soul of Divinity: Original Sin 2, so this move doesn't surprise me in the slightest.

Turn-based-only oldsters and Baldur's Gate haters suffering from cataracts, now have another reason to celebrate, I guess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Posted By: Ugmaro

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 04:26 PM

Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by vometia
Same deal with the Dragon Ages where areas had a fixed time of day. I would've preferred a proper day/night cycle but at least it gave an illusion that there was one, kinda sorta.


Kinda sorta, yeah...

The thing that gets me is that they keep on saying this is D&D 5e but the more I look at it the more I see divergence from the system. While the day/night cycle might seem completely irrelevant it affects other things. If you remove that you're basically removing the exhaustion mechanic (and one part of why rest is important), which in turn affects spells like greater restoration. I personally prefer to be drowned in spell choices (as is the case in D&D 5e) than to have it dumbed down to the point where I'm always spamming 1 spell and never looking at any of the alternatives.

From what I've seen so far I doubt a bunch of well developed D&D mechanics like turning to stone, curses or poisoning will be placed in the game either. I like that the game is story driven but I think they've made some massive mistakes, the main one being that they said it's the 5e rules while they're too afraid to actually implement them. Simply never saying that sentance would've made my expectations for the game completely different and I could've gotten behind almost anything.


It's not because there is no day/night cycle that exhaustion won't be in the game. Exhaustion has nothing do to with day/night cycle in 5e. It's tied to using Forced March for more than 8 consecutive hours and special abilities/hazard/extreme temperature exposure. Forced March will probably not be in, but the other things might be.

It was confirmed that you will need to rest in the game, for both mechanical (regain spells/HP) and story reasons. There is a passage of time in the game, it's just not a full simulation of a day/night cycle.

Also, Greater Restoration is used for other things than regaining a level of exhaustion. You're brain process of equaling no day/night cycle = no curse or petrify is super weird. DOS2 has permanent curse status and petrify that required very specific abilities to remove.


The day/night cycle thing is just the latest of things. The bonus actions showed to us had nothing to do with actual bonus actions and were all actions, they said there are no reactions apart from AoO, there are no short rests, now they're saying there is no day/night cycle, meaning they're removing the chance of getting a point of exhaustion from not sleeping (since there's nothing else to do at night).

Compare lesser and greater restorations, realize the differences in spell level and effects, then say that again. The greater restoration was meant as an example, not as a crowning arguement. And since when are we talking about DOS 2?

Edit: feel free to ignore the comparison of the two spells - that's completely subjective about what part makes the spell worthy of a 5th level spell.
Posted By: azarhal

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:00 PM

Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by azarhal
Originally Posted by Ugmaro
Originally Posted by vometia
Same deal with the Dragon Ages where areas had a fixed time of day. I would've preferred a proper day/night cycle but at least it gave an illusion that there was one, kinda sorta.


Kinda sorta, yeah...

The thing that gets me is that they keep on saying this is D&D 5e but the more I look at it the more I see divergence from the system. While the day/night cycle might seem completely irrelevant it affects other things. If you remove that you're basically removing the exhaustion mechanic (and one part of why rest is important), which in turn affects spells like greater restoration. I personally prefer to be drowned in spell choices (as is the case in D&D 5e) than to have it dumbed down to the point where I'm always spamming 1 spell and never looking at any of the alternatives.

From what I've seen so far I doubt a bunch of well developed D&D mechanics like turning to stone, curses or poisoning will be placed in the game either. I like that the game is story driven but I think they've made some massive mistakes, the main one being that they said it's the 5e rules while they're too afraid to actually implement them. Simply never saying that sentance would've made my expectations for the game completely different and I could've gotten behind almost anything.


It's not because there is no day/night cycle that exhaustion won't be in the game. Exhaustion has nothing do to with day/night cycle in 5e. It's tied to using Forced March for more than 8 consecutive hours and special abilities/hazard/extreme temperature exposure. Forced March will probably not be in, but the other things might be.

It was confirmed that you will need to rest in the game, for both mechanical (regain spells/HP) and story reasons. There is a passage of time in the game, it's just not a full simulation of a day/night cycle.

Also, Greater Restoration is used for other things than regaining a level of exhaustion. You're brain process of equaling no day/night cycle = no curse or petrify is super weird. DOS2 has permanent curse status and petrify that required very specific abilities to remove.


The day/night cycle thing is just the latest of things. The bonus actions showed to us had nothing to do with actual bonus actions and were all actions, they said there are no reactions apart from AoO, there are no short rests, now they're saying there is no day/night cycle, meaning they're removing the chance of getting a point of exhaustion from not sleeping (since there's nothing else to do at night).

Compare lesser and greater restorations, realize the differences in spell level and effects, then say that again. The greater restoration was meant as an example, not as a crowning arguement. And since when are we talking about DOS 2?

Edit: feel free to ignore the comparison of the two spells - that's completely subjective about what part makes the spell worthy of a 5th level spell.


I brought up DOS2 because Larian put curse and petrify in a game already. Why wouldn't they put them in this one where it makes even more senses? Especially when a bunch of people are calling BG3 as DOS3.

The action/bonus action switch was them trying a way to give every class bonus action at lower levels. It's not like D&D doesn't allow house ruling (drinking potion as a bonus action being a popular one). I expect some of them to changed once feedback from early access gets in.

Reaction only have AoO working right now, Larian never said they wouldn't try to add more, they just don't want gameplay interrupted by popups. There is a thread giving suggestions on how to implement more reactions: http://forums.larian.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=660998&page=1

It's not like the game is balanced, bug free and final right now..
Posted By: kungfukappa

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:18 PM

We know what it doesn't offer: the BG experience.
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:21 PM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
We know what it doesn't offer: the BG experience.

This is becoming a broken record at this point.

Look, I just don't think that whining aimlessly is going to help anything.
I'd rather see people argument in favor of what they want in the game in a detailed manner and in the appropriate threads for what they are talking about, if that's not too much to ask.
Posted By: kungfukappa

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:22 PM

You are one of the most aggressive people who tells others that their opinions are "trivial" next to yours, why should I give a rat's left testicle what you think?
Posted By: Boeroer

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:22 PM

Looking at kungfukappa's post history: it seems it is too much to ask indeed.
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:28 PM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
You are one of the most aggressive people who tells others that their opinions are "trivial" next to yours, why should I give a rat's left testicle what you think?

You keep whining about that simply because you seem to have poor reading comprehension skill.

I said the problem you were complaining about was trivial in comparison (because it was, "no procedurally generated encounters" is something that the previous games did as well and with little to no impact over the entire campaign, to begin with, since there were barely a handful of handcrafted "pseudo-random encounters" in the entire BG2+ exapansion).
You took it as a personal insult for some reason and kept complaining about it in several replies.

Also, I never asked you to like me. THAT is beside the point of the thread as well.
Just to stick with what's being discussed.
Posted By: Nobody_Special

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by kungfukappa
We know what it doesn't offer: the BG experience.

This is becoming a broken record at this point.

Look, I just don't think that whining aimlessly is going to help anything.
I'd rather see people argument in favor of what they want in the game in a detailed manner and in the appropriate threads for what they are talking about, if that's not too much to ask.


This thread is about the day and night cycle. And @Kungfukappa's post is not out of line with this topic. BG1 and BG2 both had day and night cycles. It is your responses that are derailing the thread. If you two quit arguing they won't be derailed. Or you can go start your own thread. kungfukappa vs Tuco.

back to topic:

I think they should have a Day-night cycle because it is part of the DND experience and the BG1 and BG2 experience.
Posted By: kungfukappa

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by kungfukappa
You are one of the most aggressive people who tells others that their opinions are "trivial" next to yours, why should I give a rat's left testicle what you think?

You keep whining about that simply because you seem to have poor reading comprehension skill.

I said the problem you were complaining about was trivial in comparison (because it was, "no procedurally generated encounters" is something that the previous games did as well and with little to no impact over the entire campaign, to begin with, since there were barely a handful of handcrafted "pseudo-random encounters" in the entire BG2+ exapansion).
You took it as a personal insult for some reason and kept complaining about it in several replies.

Also, I never asked you to like me. THAT is beside the point of the thread as well.
Just to stick with what's being discussed.

This is a trivial statement. There are much more important statements to worry about.

You are one of the trolls from Steam, you make the exact same threads and comments there. Like Eguzky, you are just a cancerous troll. I came here to get away from cancer like you, but you followed and behave just the same. It is a pity that nowhere is safe from toxic cancer gamers like you.
Posted By: Tuco

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 05:54 PM

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special

This thread is about the day and night cycle. And @Kungfukappa's post is not out of line with this topic..

It's not about the night and day cycle, it's just the NTH iteration of his generic dislike/whining for how this game is shaping up.
So yes, it's "out of the line". And yes, even with your approval.

Originally Posted by kungfukappa

This is a trivial statement.

I'm starting to doubt you even understand what trivial means, given how you keep misusing it as a goofy attempt at being dismissive and catty.

Quote
You are one of the trolls from Steam, you make the exact same threads and comments there.

I didn't start a single thread on Steam, but nice try.
And I didn't "follow" you absolutely nowhere. You're being delusional.
In fact I was absolutely not even registering your presence until you started posting the same bitching at every single reply in this subforum.

I'm also not sure why that would be of ANY relevance even if I did.
At this point it's starting to feel like you are just trolling me.
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 06:12 PM

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
Originally Posted by Tuco
Originally Posted by kungfukappa
You are one of the most aggressive people who tells others that their opinions are "trivial" next to yours, why should I give a rat's left testicle what you think?

You keep whining about that simply because you seem to have poor reading comprehension skill.

I said the problem you were complaining about was trivial in comparison (because it was, "no procedurally generated encounters" is something that the previous games did as well and with little to no impact over the entire campaign, to begin with, since there were barely a handful of handcrafted "pseudo-random encounters" in the entire BG2+ exapansion).
You took it as a personal insult for some reason and kept complaining about it in several replies.

Also, I never asked you to like me. THAT is beside the point of the thread as well.
Just to stick with what's being discussed.

This is a trivial statement. There are much more important statements to worry about.

You are one of the trolls from Steam, you make the exact same threads and comments there. Like Eguzky, you are just a cancerous troll. I came here to get away from cancer like you, but you followed and behave just the same. It is a pity that nowhere is safe from toxic cancer gamers like you.


The 'why is everyone calling names!' person calling people names...again.
And calling me out.
Like Cthulhu, but with less tentacles, I rise when named.

Originally Posted by kungfukappa
We know what it doesn't offer: the BG experience.


This is a SUBJECTIVE view, man. And it's all you do; whine that 'This is not Baulder's Gate' and call people names. Then ask why everyone is being such a meany-face and calling people names.

Do you not have ANY self-awareness? Or do you just go through life assuming everything you say and do is perfect?

YOU don't think this is Baulder's Gate.
I DO think this is Baulder's Gate.

If you don't like the game; just leave? Go do something you enjoy? Watch a movie?
Instead, you stomp onto every thread, whine 'This is not my Baulder's gate', call people cancer who should be ignored because you say so, call people trolls for having a different opinion, and then try to act like you did nothing wrong.
Posted By: Full Bleed

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 06:47 PM

I understand and, grudgingly, accept their explanation. The day/night cycle (which I do think is very important to have when simulating a *real* D&D game) would be disruptive to their current method of story-telling (which is, judging by DOS2, likely to be a really well done, and fairly linear progression of connecting a variety of story way-points.)

That means that they will, likely, simulate some night events to create some variation. But, lets make no mistake, it will be the poor-man's faux night.

I see no reason that they won't be able to pull off an amazing story/game without a persistent day/night cycle... but in as much as it conflicts with their current method of story-telling I hope they realize that it is a self-inflicted wound. With luck, the foundation laid in BG3 will allow them to expand BG4 to include proper day/night cycles (even if it's only through portions of the unfolding adventures.)
Posted By: Ugmaro

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 07:04 PM

Originally Posted by azarhal

I brought up DOS2 because Larian put curse and petrify in a game already. Why wouldn't they put them in this one where it makes even more senses? Especially when a bunch of people are calling BG3 as DOS3.


I almost hate the fact that you said this - Larian said they will make this a D&D 5e game, not DOS3. Yet as much as I've tried to "defend" them in the past week saying "ah, they just need to fix a few things" they keep on revealing things that take it further and further from actual D&D and make it look more and more like DOS3.

On a side note the curse and petrify in the DOS 2 (both can only be removed by Bless) was nothing even close to the curse and petrify in D&D (each can be removed in different ways or with a very strong spell), though I feel like they might recycle the petrify to not waste the brown&rocky skin they used.

I return to my original point that they should've actually used 5e rules instead of being afraid to do it, while saying they've used them.

Edit: I just remembered the petrify could be removed with magic armor as well. Nevermind that point then
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 08:39 PM

Hah! It would seem that a game from 1998 is more technologically sophisticated than the stuff we see coming out in 2020. Now I'm getting *really* nostalgic.
Posted By: Doomlord

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 08:43 PM

Not having darkness is a drag. DDO has spoiled me, don't get me wrong it has its problems. Still a solid experience IMO after 14 yrs
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 08:52 PM

Originally Posted by Doomlord
Not having darkness is a drag. DDO has spoiled me, don't get me wrong it has its problems. Still a solid experience IMO after 14 yrs

I love DDO but Turbine gutted it so bad to make money off of almost every quest. The game is 10% content and 90% paid DLC.

I'd kill for a newer 3D D&D MMO that implemented branching dungeon paths & rewards exploring, while using almost 100% of the 'Edition Rules' (IE: DDO was 3.5, a new one would be 5E)

Neverwinter was a very lazy cash-in meant to sell more microtransactions.
But part of that could have been the 4E ruleset it had to use, which already felt way too video-gamey on paper.
Posted By: DaKatarn

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 10:13 PM

The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

It's more important that a throwing of shoe IMO...
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:18 PM

Originally Posted by DaKatarn
The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

It's more important that a throwing of shoe IMO...


Way to be over dramatic.

Not every game needs a day/night cycle. And nothing about 'copy/paste' would be the choice to add or not add it.
Posted By: DaKatarn

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by DaKatarn
The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

It's more important that a throwing of shoe IMO...


Way to be over dramatic.

Not every game needs a day/night cycle. And nothing about 'copy/paste' would be the choice to add or not add it.


A lot of presence or lack of features in BG3 have for explanation the copy/paste of DO mechanics, the day/night cycle is just a another exemple of that.

For exemple, the "Origin Companions" is a good illustration of this mindset and a result is a less immersive story for no-origin main character and a smaller number of NPC compared to BG.
Posted By: Madaras

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:44 PM

DDO was sold to different management at that point it drastically went downhill. I fondly remember the great community DDO once had and the DDO podcast that was fantastic. Still take a moderate amount of pride soloing the iron maiden on hardcore difficulty. (I believe that was what it was called) People kept abandoning the quest at the slightest mistake so finally decided to complete it on my own. Took me a few hours and I reported the event to my clan. One of my guild leaders offered a reward of a million gold if I could beat it. I thought I was a goner once I got to the boss, but almost miraculously I survived. Before that I had to use a trick, that the devs later resolved, where my artificer's dog would pick up my soul stone to resurrect me. No such escape would work in the boss fight. I came out of it a million gold richer, which I spent on a crossbow that would lower an enemies constitution with each shot...which soon after the devs nerfed much to my chagrin.
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:45 PM

Originally Posted by DaKatarn
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by DaKatarn
The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

It's more important that a throwing of shoe IMO...


Way to be over dramatic.

Not every game needs a day/night cycle. And nothing about 'copy/paste' would be the choice to add or not add it.


A lot of presence or lack of features in BG3 have for explanation the copy/paste of DO mechanics, the day/night cycle is just a another exemple of that.

For exemple, the "Origin Companions" is a good illustration of this mindset and a result is a less immersive story for no-origin main character and a smaller number of NPC compared to BG.


You do realize a day/night cycle is one of the easier things to create in a modern engine? Not many biomes have too many different creatures between night & day in your average D&D setting (And I'm speaking of PC. A DM around a table can add all sorts of creatures).
So it's as simple as dimming the lighting over time, or setting a timer that says 'At <x>, use Dusk lighting'. 'Now use night lighting for night at <x> time.' then 'At <x> time, use the Sunrise lighting' 'Now use the daytime lighting at <x> time'

I'm oversimplifying but it's not all that difficult, compared to many other things.

The choice is artistic and has nothing to do with copy/pasting.

Edit: For a day/night cycle to be all that worth spending money & time making, it would have to have a PURPOSE. I mean, it could be fluff and do nothing; monsters stay the same, NPCs don't sleep, so you can still buy things at night.
But that would be a bit down on the list of 'things to implement', I'd think.
Posted By: Full Bleed

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 07/03/20 11:52 PM

Originally Posted by DaKatarn
The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

I think their reasoning has been spelled out fairly clearly earlier in the thread.

For starters, they indicated that the complexity of their story-telling would go to some very problematic places if they added another dimension (day/night). If you take a moment to think about how much more complex the behaviour of each NPC has to be during a fully realized day/night cycle then it's not too hard to understand why they might not want to chew on those particular problems this time around.

Having a convincing "night" would not just be a matter changing the lighting. For starters NPC's would have to have more complex schedules and actions, there would have to be a bunch of additional NPC's to populate the nightscapes (different guards, inn/bar keepers and patrons, monsters would be expected to do different things at night, etc.)

That said, while I respect that might be a bigger mouthful to chew on from that perspective, I do think they could certainly start introducing some "scripted" night events and side adventures. Some "not so random" camp encounters might be a nice place to start with such a thing... anything to start laying the ground work for a more convincing illusion of a day/night cycle even if the entirety of their core persistent world isn't constantly cycling.
Posted By: DaKatarn

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:57 AM

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by DaKatarn
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by DaKatarn
The lack of night/day cycle is a real heresy, a true immersion breaker. What reason can justify such a choice, except the copy/paste of Dinivity?

It's more important that a throwing of shoe IMO...


Way to be over dramatic.

Not every game needs a day/night cycle. And nothing about 'copy/paste' would be the choice to add or not add it.


A lot of presence or lack of features in BG3 have for explanation the copy/paste of DO mechanics, the day/night cycle is just a another exemple of that.

For exemple, the "Origin Companions" is a good illustration of this mindset and a result is a less immersive story for no-origin main character and a smaller number of NPC compared to BG.


You do realize a day/night cycle is one of the easier things to create in a modern engine? Not many biomes have too many different creatures between night & day in your average D&D setting (And I'm speaking of PC. A DM around a table can add all sorts of creatures).
So it's as simple as dimming the lighting over time, or setting a timer that says 'At <x>, use Dusk lighting'. 'Now use night lighting for night at <x> time.' then 'At <x> time, use the Sunrise lighting' 'Now use the daytime lighting at <x> time'

I'm oversimplifying but it's not all that difficult, compared to many other things.

The choice is artistic and has nothing to do with copy/pasting.

Edit: For a day/night cycle to be all that worth spending money & time making, it would have to have a PURPOSE. I mean, it could be fluff and do nothing; monsters stay the same, NPCs don't sleep, so you can still buy things at night.
But that would be a bit down on the list of 'things to implement', I'd think.


I'm agree but it's BALDUR'S GATE3 , note a low cost projet game didn't it?

It's a RPG and ambiance is fundamental, it's not a gadget like a hungry shoe. So we will have only darkness in cave and interior and only zone with a sunny beach ambiance and maybe one zone with rain all the times? It's the philosophy of a Dragon Age Inquisition game (an also too colorfull and without a soul high fantasy setup IMO...)

A good regression from a 1998 game and a huge immersive breaker (ho vampire only in deep crypt, ho no assassination and Thieve style in city...).

The only reason is DOS copy/pasting like 4 party member, origin companion, colorful ton, throwing shoe, animal talking, etc.

Maybe even map construction will be DOS copy/past like a big map without any coherence for each act and no world map and liberty of back in old cities.
Posted By: Archaven

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 10:14 AM

in codex.. someone actually explained the reason why day & night couldn't work in a DOS *ahem* BG3 game. it was due to simultaneous turn-based and real-time which very much the design goal for a multiplayer co-op game. when engaging combat.. it's in turn-based. time is actually locked during turn-based but other players could be venturing the world in real-time where the time is actually ticking. unless they remove the time transition during turn-based but seems kinda awkward when everyone in the world is frozen but the day & night cycle still happens. what it all means is that.. folks engaged in a fight could be still in daytime when the other players in real-time that join the fights could be already at night time.
Posted By: DaKatarn

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 10:22 AM

Originally Posted by Archaven
in codex.. someone actually explained the reason why day & night couldn't work in a DOS *ahem* BG3 game. it was due to simultaneous turn-based and real-time which very much the design goal for a multiplayer co-op game. when engaging combat.. it's in turn-based. time is actually locked during turn-based but other players could be venturing the world in real-time where the time is actually ticking. unless they remove the time transition during turn-based but seems kinda awkward when everyone in the world is frozen but the day & night cycle still happens. what it all means is that.. folks engaged in a fight could be still in daytime when the other players in real-time that join the fights could be already at night time.


Very interesting point and another proof of the impact on the gameplay that can have a DOS setup. I think the good compromise is no pause for weather during frozen fighting...

It's not ideal but it's a necessary concession by this choices of DOS copy/paste, BG3 will be saved by modding.
Posted By: Bercon

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 12:38 PM

No day/night cycle doesn't mean it's an eternal day in the game. You camp at night, so most of the stuff in the camp is probably during evening. You could get ambushed, thus fight during the night. There could also be quests where some events such as mounting an offensive against enemy fortress could be at night etc.

I do admit it's a bit of a bummer not to have it, but it's hardly a deal breaker. There are pros and cons either way.
Posted By: LaserOstrich

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 12:41 PM

If I recall that correctly:

Dragon Age: Origins
the 'by BioWare' developed
and 'by BioWare' described as a spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate
and 'by BioWare' due to the lack of the license not named Baldur’s Gate X
game

did not have a day/night-cycle.

And it was great!
Or am I just blind for something where a day/night-cycle would have significantly added to the game?

I am by the way very happy that BG3 seems to take on style of the party camp of DA:O.
I'm excited to see how Larian does it.
Posted By: vometia

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 12:47 PM

Originally Posted by LaserOstrich
If I recall that correctly:

Dragon Age: Origins
[...]
did not have a day/night-cycle.

Indeed it didn't. Lothering was perpetually late afternoon; Denerim was always in broad daylight; the campsite was always early evening(ish). As much as I prefer a day/night cycle, it took me a while to notice it didn't have one.

Of course even if you do have a day/night cycle, nobody can ever agree what's the ideal multiplier for the passing of time.
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 12:53 PM

The multiplayer aspect is a decent reason and if the locations and missions give the illusion of time, then that could work.
I would be happy with a time choice for quests, I.e. "let’s do task A at night" and when you time changes to what you chose to simulate that you prepared in the mean time.
Posted By: azarhal

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 02:06 PM

Originally Posted by LaserOstrich
If I recall that correctly:

Dragon Age: Origins
the 'by BioWare' developed
and 'by BioWare' described as a spiritual successor to Baldur’s Gate
and 'by BioWare' due to the lack of the license not named Baldur’s Gate X
game

did not have a day/night-cycle.

And it was great!
Or am I just blind for something where a day/night-cycle would have significantly added to the game?

I am by the way very happy that BG3 seems to take on style of the party camp of DA:O.
I'm excited to see how Larian does it.


Bioware stopped doing day/night cycles with KoTOR in 2004. They prefer set time of the day for each areas, sometimes changing them based on quests or story steps. Or like DA2, manually changing it.
Posted By: LaserOstrich

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 03:29 PM

Ah ok, you're right, didn't even thought of that.
Posted By: Blade238

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 03:37 PM

If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 03:42 PM

Originally Posted by Blade238
If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.

Sorry man but they want this game to be as true to 5E DnD as possible.
Posted By: Blade238

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 04:23 PM

Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Blade238
If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.

Sorry man but they want this game to be as true to 5E DnD as possible.

That's what I'm saying though, 5E has nocturnal creatures, certain races have better advantages at night time, etc.

The 5E ruleset has certain races with the racial trait of "Darkvision" and Elves have a racial trait of "Trance" in which they get the benefits of sleep that other races get, with half of the time and not truly sleeping. Night time is even a part of 5E.

If they want it as true to 5E DnD as possible, they'd have certain occurrences at night time, if not a day/night cycle, then at least something involving the camp system.

Edit: I'm glad we've been able to converse without the drama that's been going on this forum BTW. It's appreciated!
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 04:43 PM

Originally Posted by Blade238
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Blade238
If they don't end up adding a day/night cycle then it'll be pretty disappointing. It's 2020, Larian has grown a bit since DOSII and different monsters/races behave differently at night. I hope they've at least added the potential for camps to be attacked at rest and for certain races (Elves for instance) to gain advantages at night since they require less sleep and have better night vision.

Sorry man but they want this game to be as true to 5E DnD as possible.

That's what I'm saying though, 5E has nocturnal creatures, certain races have better advantages at night time, etc.

The 5E ruleset has certain races with the racial trait of "Darkvision" and Elves have a racial trait of "Trance" in which they get the benefits of sleep that other races get, with half of the time and not truly sleeping. Night time is even a part of 5E.

If they want it as true to 5E DnD as possible, they'd have certain occurrences at night time, if not a day/night cycle, then at least something involving the camp system.

Edit: I'm glad we've been able to converse without the drama that's been going on this forum BTW. It's appreciated!

As far as I know neither D:OS title had a day/night cycle and even though they claim BG3 is running on a largely rewritten engine.. well.. I'll save that for my next write-up. Maybe there would have been more drama on my part a few months ago but at this point I'm just laughing it off. Tempered my expectations a great deal. You're welcome.
Posted By: Raze

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:11 PM


While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.
Posted By: Emrikol

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:27 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


I don't find the lack of day/night essential, and the reason you give seems sound. But, if every board/act didn't take place in the daylight, then extra scripting wouldn't need to be done. For example, Arx could have been in a night time setting without having a need for any more scripting and assets than was needed for the day (maybe even less). Just a little variety .
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:29 PM

Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


I don't find the lack of day/night essential, and the reason you give seems sound. But, if every board/act didn't take place in the daylight, then extra scripting wouldn't need to be done. For example, Arx could have been in a night time setting without having a need for any more scripting and assets than was needed for the day (maybe even less). Just a little variety .

That could still happen. Making a map perma day and perma night is not a cycle. They only said there would be no time-changing cycle.
Posted By: Emrikol

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:30 PM

Yeah, exactly. If there isn't to be a cycle, at least have a variety.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:35 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And these were insurmontable difficulties?
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 08/03/20 09:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And these were insurmontable difficulties?

Technically, you could make time go by despite being locked in turn-based combat. Would it be immersion-breaking to anyone? I don't know.
Posted By: Raze

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 12:10 AM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
And these were insurmontable difficulties?

They became unmanageable for D:OS, and the feature had to be cut. Given enough time and resources it could certainly be done. With finite resources available (even if larger than D:OS), it wasn't feasible on top of the other changes and updates being made for BG3.
Posted By: ThreeL

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 07:49 AM

Why they say day/night cycle is incredibly complex for a multiplayer game? Because of what reason?
Posted By: ThreeL

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 07:58 AM

Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


And Larian would be the very first developer who does this? Especially sad when you can play as a drow but you dont have dsy/night cycle. Even BG had this and it's 20 years old. Some statements really sound like you didn't even try to do something else than your last game. Also audio in different languages. Tons of games have it, but larian of course not
Posted By: Raze

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 08:39 AM


Different companies with different projects / game engines / etc can prioritise features differently.
When BG3 is released, I'm not sure you'll be able to list tons of games game which implemented the same features, in as much depth, in addition to a day/night cycle.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 09:10 AM

Originally Posted by Raze

Different companies with different projects / game engines / etc can prioritise features differently.
When BG3 is released, I'm not sure you'll be able to list tons of games game which implemented the same features, in as much depth, in addition to a day/night cycle.


Interesting. Feel free to elaborate, please. I think I heard "photogrammetry", whatever that means.
Posted By: Torque

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 09:17 AM

Originally Posted by Nickolaidas
This sucks and takes away from the immersion quite a lot.


This is the key issue. Having the ambience of night time contrast with day time, and all the NPCs doing different things matters in an RPG.
Posted By: Torque

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by Full Bleed
I understand and, grudgingly, accept their explanation. The day/night cycle (which I do think is very important to have when simulating a *real* D&D game) would be disruptive to their current method of story-telling (which is, judging by DOS2, likely to be a really well done, and fairly linear progression of connecting a variety of story way-points.)

That means that they will, likely, simulate some night events to create some variation. But, lets make no mistake, it will be the poor-man's faux night.

I see no reason that they won't be able to pull off an amazing story/game without a persistent day/night cycle... but in as much as it conflicts with their current method of story-telling I hope they realize that it is a self-inflicted wound. With luck, the foundation laid in BG3 will allow them to expand BG4 to include proper day/night cycles (even if it's only through portions of the unfolding adventures.)


Its the writers getting in the way of their own story. So many games fall into this trap of creating "the most epic story" that they dont let the players adventure for themselves. Its not a book (which is ironic because in a book the immersion would shatter completly if the writer ignored the 24-hour cycle) but an interractive medium. Things like needing to rest, stocking up on supplies, being more wary during night times... shit like that might seem mundane and tedious but if handled correctly only adds to the experience of playing an RPG.
Posted By: Erwin Smith

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 10:44 AM

Day/night cycle, dynamic weather, NPCs with routines, NPCs that react to the weather etc..
Pillars Of Eternity Deadfire has all these details and more.
WoTC should have chosen Obsidian to make BG3 frown
Posted By: vometia

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 10:58 AM

Originally Posted by Erwin Smith
WoTC should have chosen Obsidian to make BG3 frown

I'd be interested to see the reaction if BG3 was done in the style of TOW. I loved TOW, but do BG fans love it...?
Posted By: Wormerine

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 12:07 PM

And considering how PoE2 underperformed and we might not see PoE3, it seems that not going traditional way is a smart financial move.

WotC gave licence to Larian precisely because of what they were doing, not in spite of it.
Posted By: Ignatius

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 12:20 PM

Assuming TOW stands for The Outer Worlds, would they make BG 3 a first person shooter? Wouldn't that be special. I'm sure the 'True BG fans' would love that!
Posted By: vometia

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 12:21 PM

Originally Posted by Ignatius
Assuming TOW stands for The Outer Worlds, would they make BG 3 a first person shooter? Wouldn't that be special. I'm sure the 'True BG fans' would love that!

biggrin
Posted By: Maximuuus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 12:31 PM

Wow, I'm sure this condescendant attitude is way more constructive rolleyes
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 01:32 PM

So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.
Posted By: Nyanko

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 01:45 PM

Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.


Wait, what? In what way a D&D simulation is not exactly that: your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? It sounds like you've never played tabletop D&D or something to state such nonsense.
Posted By: Abits

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 02:10 PM

honestly, it sounds like a big miss to me to present a vampire spawn option without day and night cycle... It's like a huge missed opportunity...
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 02:14 PM

Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.

Japanese RPG in the vein of Divinity: Original Sin being made for the PC market, nearly 50% of which appears to prefer RTwP and whose name is apparently an attempt to attract players with gaming interests that may not overlap with any of the aforementioned. Also it's supposed to be an accurate reflection of 5E D&D but not always (!), depending on where the devs can cut corners. Hey, they're doing it because Pillars of Eternity 2 failed from a sales and marketing perspective, which is undeniable proof you have to reinvent the series in order to succeed.
Posted By: anjovis bonus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.


Wait, what? In what way a D&D simulation is not exactly that: your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? It sounds like you've never played tabletop D&D or something to state such nonsense.


Freedom of choice, sounds to me like they're putting more emphasis on narrative and less on player choice. You're getting a collection of scenes, much like in a movie or a book rather than have freedom to choose what order you'd like to complete the game in (like you could in Balder's Gate 1 & 2, Fallouts etc. western RPG's).

I'm not saying one if better than the other, but as video game writing and acting is almost always sub par, getting forced to follow a b-movie plot and watch extended exposition scenes just to reach that next scripted combat area does not sound fun to me.
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 04:54 PM

Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
Originally Posted by Nyanko
Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.


Wait, what? In what way a D&D simulation is not exactly that: your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? It sounds like you've never played tabletop D&D or something to state such nonsense.


Freedom of choice, sounds to me like they're putting more emphasis on narrative and less on player choice. You're getting a collection of scenes, much like in a movie or a book rather than have freedom to choose what order you'd like to complete the game in (like you could in Balder's Gate 1 & 2, Fallouts etc. western RPG's).

I'm not saying one if better than the other, but as video game writing and acting is almost always sub par, getting forced to follow a b-movie plot and watch extended exposition scenes just to reach that next scripted combat area does not sound fun to me.


^This, I absolutely agree on this, the more I think about what features are they focused on the more it smells to me like a linear narrative story with less emphasis on player agency(something like ME series(not MEA, that poop doesnt exist)). Like no actual mechanics for Camp other than for talking(Sry Im not impressed with Vamp managing his hunger only in camp section) as oppose to Pathfinder kingmaker (also not saying that pathfinders D/N cycle is perfect but at least it interacts with u in some way, giving u some random events as Pathfinders Camp does with ambushes). Tadpole is there perfectly placed for not having a D/N cycle which also we will not see a none tadpole playthrough if we would wished so not to mention Specials post >

Originally Posted by Nobody_Special
Originally Posted by From the Divinity Original Sin FAQ.

Will Divinity Original Sin 2 have a Day and Night Cycle?

No, we have no plans to introduce a day and night cycle. What we're trying to do at the narrative & scripting level is really complicated, so to even contemplate adding yet another extra dimension of complexity to that gives us a headache. The impact of the player origins combined with a higher level of freedom than the already insane amount of freedom you had in Divinity: Original Sin, added to the options required for multiplayer mode already means that our development is going to be hugely complex. Until we tame all of that, we won't add an extra layer. Perhaps for another game, but definitely not for this one.


edit: I forgot to link the Kickstarter FAQ and put a 2 after sin
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/larianstudios/divinity-original-sin-2/faqs

This is another Game!!! No night was really the only thing I hated about DOS2. Most monsters are Nocturnal. You giving them all Tadpoles too? (Jumping back on the fence)


To me BG3 gone from must buy to meh.. I will wait & see...


Posted By: 00zim00

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 05:00 PM

I am surprised multiplayer is the issue. If two players are in the same party then I would expect them to mostly stick together. And if they are apart, well they both should pause and go into combat. Otherwise what's stopping the other player from running half way across the map to help out in combat while his buddy waits on his turn with frozen enemies? Or "freezing" a group of enemies as the other player freely moves around the encounter radius.

It's also curious since when I first heard of no day night cycle I just assumed it was because stealth uses shadows and if the light is not baked into the map then you will get odd calculations as the shadows move. Or likewise have shadows that are darker then they should be just to visually show clear stealth borders.
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 09/03/20 05:30 PM

Originally Posted by 00zim00
I am surprised multiplayer is the issue. If two players are in the same party then I would expect them to mostly stick together. And if they are apart, well they both should pause and go into combat. Otherwise what's stopping the other player from running half way across the map to help out in combat while his buddy waits on his turn with frozen enemies? Or "freezing" a group of enemies as the other player freely moves around the encounter radius.

It's also curious since when I first heard of no day night cycle I just assumed it was because stealth uses shadows and if the light is not baked into the map then you will get odd calculations as the shadows move. Or likewise have shadows that are darker then they should be just to visually show clear stealth borders.

Well, to answer part of it; if your friend is across a map, he doe snot go into turn-based mode.
If he gets close enough to fight; he goes into TB mode. Thus, he can't run around freely inside the combat.
Posted By: ThreeL

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 08:06 AM

Originally Posted by Wormerine
And considering how PoE2 underperformed and we might not see PoE3, it seems that not going traditional way is a smart financial move.

WotC gave licence to Larian precisely because of what they were doing, not in spite of it.


That was an issue of the setting, not of the game itself.
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 08:26 AM

Originally Posted by ThreeL
Originally Posted by Wormerine
And considering how PoE2 underperformed and we might not see PoE3, it seems that not going traditional way is a smart financial move.

WotC gave licence to Larian precisely because of what they were doing, not in spite of it.


That was an issue of the setting, not of the game itself.

The amount of superstition is appalling. It's as if no one read scientific literature or papers on here. Let's say BG3 fails commercially, does that mean no one should ever try making a CRPG again? Or a CRPG with turn-based combat for that matter.
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 08:35 AM

Well this is good then.
So if BG3 setting is good, then sales will be good. Excellent, let's focus our forum attention on that then hehe
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 08:38 AM

Originally Posted by Riandor
Well this is good then.
So if BG3 setting is good, then sales will be good. Excellent, let's focus our forum attention on that then hehe


I am fairly certain that is what the people who commissioned this game are banking on.
Posted By: Ivory Samoan

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 11:00 AM

Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by anjovis bonus
So this will be less a D&d simulation and more of a choose your own adventure with in depth turn based combat? Sounds like a Japanese rpg to me, which I am not really interested at all.

Japanese RPG in the vein of Divinity: Original Sin being made for the PC market, nearly 50% of which appears to prefer RTwP and whose name is apparently an attempt to attract players with gaming interests that may not overlap with any of the aforementioned. Also it's supposed to be an accurate reflection of 5E D&D but not always (!), depending on where the devs can cut corners. Hey, they're doing it because Pillars of Eternity 2 failed from a sales and marketing perspective, which is undeniable proof you have to reinvent the series in order to succeed.


50% of PC market prefers RTwP over TB....I doubt this very, very much.
Posted By: korotama

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 11:28 AM

Fair enough. 46.4% do. PC Gamer ran a poll recently where more than 33,000 people cast their votes. That's as good a sample as it will ever get as far as video game surveys with respect to the PC market. I don't doubt their data.
Posted By: vometia

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 11:34 AM

TB/RTwP topic, just as a reminder. Stray posts may be deleted.
Posted By: Full Bleed

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 10/03/20 04:33 PM

Originally Posted by 00zim00
I am surprised multiplayer is the issue.

It's not *the issue*, it's (potentially) *an* issue.

I don't see why people in group aren't just "on the same clock" regardless of where they are.

Quote
If two players are in the same party then I would expect them to mostly stick together.

Frankly, I'd put them all into turn based combat once combat began. It's what I do in PNP games when groups split. I bounce between the group until combat starts... at which point everyone is in the init order and can act only on their turn (even if they're really far away from the action.)

I know they don't want players to be ridiculously far away and unable to make it to combat, but I don't have a problem with that. Groups should stick together if they want to support one another. And if you're not, there are consequences.

But, that said, even if they wanted to give players that were a certain distance away "double moves" so that they have a more realistic opportunity to get into combat faster (combined with allowing waypoint travel when a certain distance away) they could mitigate the issue enough as far as I'm concerned.

So... yeah... that's not really one of the more complicated issues with day/night cycles.
Posted By: Minsc1122

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 12:50 PM

Originally Posted by Raze

While allowing the party to be split up, with some in real time and some in turn based combat, does cause issues with syncing a day/night cycle, that isn't really critical.
The main problem is just the added complexity for doing a day/night cycle properly, on top of already complex scripting and narrative. With level design every NPC needs a place to go at night, those places need contents, etc.


I know larian is maximalist, but still I would not even mind a less complex day and night time cycle. Seeing people going to bed, is not something, what I would miss...
If you do not meet the kids in bigger cities and some specific characters at night, that is enough for me. So some streets, become a bit more emptier.
They go to sleep using their own "waypoints", when not seen on screen.

Weather effects could be something very rare. Rain could cause wet on characters for many turns or just a couple of very-very small spots on the map if any,
to avoid too much elemental effects...

In DAO2 some places are just always very-very bright, that is a way more stranger for me, than seeing, that people not sleep at night in their own apartment...
Posted By: CyberianK

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 01:26 PM

Where you want a Day/Night Cycle:

Open World RPG

MMO RPG

BG3 is neither


Peoples are just throwing features into the ring that make no sense from a game design perspective to be disappointed. In a linear story based RPG you want lighting etc as part of game design to establish the mood of a scene. I am equally furious now because I don't have Force Feedback on my console controller when I crash vehicles into the wall while driving a horsecart in BG3.
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 01:43 PM

Originally Posted by CyberianK
Where you want a Day/Night Cycle:

Open World RPG

MMO RPG

BG3 is neither


Peoples are just throwing features into the ring that make no sense from a game design perspective to be disappointed. In a linear story based RPG you want lighting etc as part of game design to establish the mood of a scene. I am equally furious now because I don't have Force Feedback on my console controller when I crash vehicles into the wall while driving a horsecart in BG3.

You realise BG1 & BG2 had a day & night cycle right?
People are various degrees of non plussed or dissapointed, but there is a reason.
Posted By: CyberianK

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 02:12 PM

I guess we have pretty much established by now that because something was in BG1+2 that does not make Larian want to force themselves to also use it if it does not make sense for them.

Its nothing revolutionary these days. And peoples would expect all kinds of additional baggage with it like custom animations, voice acting etc that requires work while it still is limiting for your storytelling as explained above.
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 02:23 PM

Originally Posted by CyberianK
I guess we have pretty much established by now that because something was in BG1+2 that does not make Larian want to force themselves to also use it if it does not make sense for them.

Its nothing revolutionary these days. And peoples would expect all kinds of additional baggage with it like custom animations, voice acting etc that requires work while it still is limiting for your storytelling as explained above.

No you're right, just because it was in the previous games does not mean it should be in #3 per default and yes, why wouldn't there be an expectation on those things? Frankly, rightly so. I would expect to have to come back during the day to a shop for example, but I would also expect to rob someone blind at night!

It's a mechanic that makes sense in an RPG environment. Plus so far the only reason given is not one for the sake of narrative, but to accomodate Multiplayer and the differences in time when certain players are in TB Combat, vs those outside of the time bubble. I understand that reasoning, but for any other reason I would be dissapointed and expressing dissapointment / discussing potential solutions or workarounds is part and parcel of reasonable forum activity.
Posted By: azarhal

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 02:45 PM

Originally Posted by Riandor
Originally Posted by CyberianK
Where you want a Day/Night Cycle:

Open World RPG

MMO RPG

BG3 is neither


Peoples are just throwing features into the ring that make no sense from a game design perspective to be disappointed. In a linear story based RPG you want lighting etc as part of game design to establish the mood of a scene. I am equally furious now because I don't have Force Feedback on my console controller when I crash vehicles into the wall while driving a horsecart in BG3.

You realise BG1 & BG2 had a day & night cycle right?
People are various degrees of non plussed or dissapointed, but there is a reason.


but NPCs don't have a 7/24 schedule in those games. They are either daily NPCs or night NPCs (and there is some randomness involved so not all the NPCs go poof/pop at the same time).

Larian only wants to do day/night cycles if the NPCs have 7/24 schedules with beds/housing/etc for them to interact with. Which is a lot more work than applying a darkness filter comes 18:00 and unspawning/spawning NPCs around.
Posted By: Maximuuus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 02:55 PM

How did it work in BG1&2 ?
I never noticed disapearing poeple... Does they all have a house and a bed ? I don't think so but i'm not sure, I never try to follow them...
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by Maximuuus
How did it work in BG1&2 ?
I never noticed disapearing poeple... Does they all have a house and a bed ? I don't think so but i'm not sure, I never try to follow them...

Wasn't in Taverns, bit others were just de-spawned iirc. Certain missions could only be done at night, certain encounters only happened at night etc...

I can't remember people "sleeping", been a while since I last played though.
Posted By: Blade238

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 05:05 PM

It wouldn't need to be too deep of a feature either. I don't think anyone really expects an isometric RPG to have some super involved season, weather or day/night cycle where AI has their own schedules or behaviors depending on the time.

It's more so a feature that adds a little atmosphere to the game, it can alter both race and monster gameplay and just all in all adds a little variety to the game. It's not the end of the world, but it's disappointing at least.
Posted By: Riandor

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 07:12 PM

Some variable weather would have been nice, but hey ho...
Posted By: Maximuuus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 11/03/20 07:29 PM

Originally Posted by Riandor
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
How did it work in BG1&2 ?
I never noticed disapearing poeple... Does they all have a house and a bed ? I don't think so but i'm not sure, I never try to follow them...

Wasn't in Taverns, bit others were just de-spawned iirc. Certain missions could only be done at night, certain encounters only happened at night etc...

I can't remember people "sleeping", been a while since I last played though.


There are people sleeping, but not so much.
I think it was something like in a "familly" (those living in the same house), some was in the house doing nothing during the day, and they were somewhere else at night, and vice versa...
There were a LOT of houses, and a lot of tavern, with lots of beds, but I'm nearly sure the majority of them don't sleep during the night.

Are you sure about the spawn / de-spawn ?
I' playing the EE for the first time now and I played many times but I never noticed that.

Variable weather and day/night cycle is something that really adds atmosphere and variety as you said,
I think it's really important in a "credible" RPG world. Of course, I'm really not fan of multiplayer, so the explanation does not convince me...
Posted By: Kailuchad

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 14/03/20 11:00 PM

BG 1&2 both had Dynamic day/night system with a dedicated cut scene sunset /sunrise for each area you were in. When you selected a character with infravison you could tell, everything glowed red. If you were given a quest or asked to meet someone at night you had 2-3 hours in real time to explore/ rest up or otherwise kill time. Only certain NPC’s would come out at night. I remember the first time getting to Beregost and seeing courtesans outside of Feldpot's inn. They weren’t there during the day. The inns and homes would have several beds with people sleeping at night. Shops would be empty, the undead would roam.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 18/03/20 09:13 PM

Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 18/03/20 09:32 PM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.

..So? Was there a point to be made in your comment?
Oh dear! A game in a totally different engine with a totally different play-style and made by a totally different crew has a feature BG3 does not!

Trials of Mana is also going to have an inventory wheel, and a magic wheel. BG3 does not have those!
Posted By: Maximuuus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 18/03/20 09:36 PM

Day and Night cycle (and meteo) is important in Baldur's Gate for many reasons. Please do it Larian.
Posted By: Dark_Ansem

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 18/03/20 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.

..So? Was there a point to be made in your comment?
Oh dear! A game in a totally different engine with a totally different play-style and made by a totally different crew has a feature BG3 does not!

Trials of Mana is also going to have an inventory wheel, and a magic wheel. BG3 does not have those!


My point is that technical "impossibilities" is an excuse beyond risible.
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 18/03/20 10:39 PM

Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.

..So? Was there a point to be made in your comment?
Oh dear! A game in a totally different engine with a totally different play-style and made by a totally different crew has a feature BG3 does not!

Trials of Mana is also going to have an inventory wheel, and a magic wheel. BG3 does not have those!


My point is that technical "impossibilities" is an excuse beyond risible.

Not every engine can do what another engine can do. hence why I pointed out that ToM is a different engine.

That said, I think no day/night is a CHOICE by Larian, not an engine limitation?
Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 19/03/20 02:10 AM

The point is that none D/N cycle game offers only linear immersion in game as in at 1 area is rain/night/or whatever on other area is sunny/windy/whatever so as u journey on u dont have an immersive feel and u can also guess that backtracking coz of that will also be minimal. What is also worse what I experienced in DoS2 for example in first act when fought with the big worm there was rain and from rain your party dont get the status wet but u get the status wet from puddles when u step on it AND what will happen in BG3 in that regard? I am really curious smile Fuk TB vs RTwP issue, perfectly placed tadpole, no D/N cycle, Camp with no point to be there other to socialize/talk, no random encounters. Dont know about u pips but to me it stinks a lot of VERY linear, unimersive 2010 game to me, also they didnt answered 1 topic about that in AMA except camp and that was so thick milky.. So can someone enlighten me what are the advantages of No D/N decision? Oh yeah... I know less work, less money to invest? No? XD

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.

..So? Was there a point to be made in your comment?
Oh dear! A game in a totally different engine with a totally different play-style and made by a totally different crew has a feature BG3 does not!

Trials of Mana is also going to have an inventory wheel, and a magic wheel. BG3 does not have those!

Posted By: Sordak

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 19/03/20 08:06 AM

randomness isnt immersive either.
i dont even disagree with you on the day / night cycle.
bu acting as if fixed encounters are a bad thing is stupid.

handcrafted encounters beat 2d6 goblins any day
Posted By: etonbears

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 19/03/20 09:53 AM

Originally Posted by 00zim00
I am surprised multiplayer is the issue. If two players are in the same party then I would expect them to mostly stick together. And if they are apart, well they both should pause and go into combat. Otherwise what's stopping the other player from running half way across the map to help out in combat while his buddy waits on his turn with frozen enemies? Or "freezing" a group of enemies as the other player freely moves around the encounter radius.

It's also curious since when I first heard of no day night cycle I just assumed it was because stealth uses shadows and if the light is not baked into the map then you will get odd calculations as the shadows move. Or likewise have shadows that are darker then they should be just to visually show clear stealth borders.


Lighting would definitely be a consideration if the game narrative or mechanics rely heavily on guaranteed lighting state. I also assumed that this played some part in the decision, although there are probably several factors.
Posted By: etonbears

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 19/03/20 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Dark_Ansem
Well it's official: Trials of Mana, a game remaking SNES classic Seiken Densetsu 3 features day-night cycle. And this game doesn't.

..So? Was there a point to be made in your comment?
Oh dear! A game in a totally different engine with a totally different play-style and made by a totally different crew has a feature BG3 does not!

Trials of Mana is also going to have an inventory wheel, and a magic wheel. BG3 does not have those!


My point is that technical "impossibilities" is an excuse beyond risible.

Not every engine can do what another engine can do. hence why I pointed out that ToM is a different engine.

That said, I think no day/night is a CHOICE by Larian, not an engine limitation?
Someone please correct me, if I'm wrong.


If Larian WANT to put a day/night cycle in, they can, it is obviously NOT impossible. But there will be a cost associated with that in terms of developer, artist, level design effort, and therefore in elapsed time and financial investment. Larian may not believe that effort required will improve the game they are making, or they may think that other features are a more important use of the available resources.

BG1/2 used the d/n cycle to good effect, but other good RPGs have not bothered. To be honest, I tend to notice a d/n cycle when it exists because it is in some way inconvenient. I rarely notice the absence of a d/n cycle, so long as the game experience is well thought out. That doesn't mean I think Larian will necessarily produce a well thought out game, just that lack of a regular d/n cycle is not necessarily an issue.
Posted By: Erwin Smith

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 12:07 AM

I don't understand why some people insist on defending the fact that the game doesn't have a day/night cycle and weather.
That is terrible! mainly for BG fans.
These details are important to me! frown
Posted By: Eguzky

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 12:29 AM

Originally Posted by Erwin Smith
I don't understand why some people insist on defending the fact that the game doesn't have a day/night cycle and weather.
That is terrible! mainly for BG fans.
These details are important to me! frown

Why do people insist on saying 'This is bad for BG fans'? It's like they're implying that anyone okay with a choice is not a real fan.

It's a narrative choice. It's not going to ruin the game.
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 12:53 AM

Im not saying that randomness is good, I thrown random encounters in there just coz I see/notice the pattern of linear design of 2010, Im fine with crafted/scripted encounters but I am not fine with no scripted nights at all coz for example its game breaking to have thievery/sneaking/scouting in a "its always sunny in BG3 sitcom" I am talking about world being "alive" as in to have nights and stuff that happen at nights like encountering more bandits, wolves and what not and at day days stuff, you know.. to have variety in our journey, a sense of time passing by even if it is scripted/crafted..

Originally Posted by Sordak
randomness isnt immersive either.
i dont even disagree with you on the day / night cycle.
bu acting as if fixed encounters are a bad thing is stupid.

handcrafted encounters beat 2d6 goblins any day

Posted By: Maximuuus

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 06:19 AM

Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Erwin Smith
I don't understand why some people insist on defending the fact that the game doesn't have a day/night cycle and weather.
That is terrible! mainly for BG fans.
These details are important to me! frown

Why do people insist on saying 'This is bad for BG fans'? It's like they're implying that anyone okay with a choice is not a real fan.

It's a narrative choice. It's not going to ruin the game.


Lot of things aren't going to ruin "the" game.... But it's again and again one more thing that won't be like in BG games.
Posted By: Sordak

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 07:51 AM

what you call linearity i call hand crafted.
now id like a day and night cycle too.

but not having random encounters at night means that there cannot be grinding ad it means all encounters are hand picked
Posted By: etonbears

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by Erwin Smith
I don't understand why some people insist on defending the fact that the game doesn't have a day/night cycle and weather.
That is terrible! mainly for BG fans.
These details are important to me! frown


But it appears that the company making the game don't think it important enough, and I suggest that they are in a better position to judge. Although, of course, their judgement might be wrong smile
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 08:08 PM

If the game is presenting me immersion breaking stuff like: Sneaking/thieving/scouting only at bright day, if the game has weather not affecting my party with corresponding statuses, if the camp is placed there without any meaningful mechanics except for talking and vamp hunger gimmick, if the game has no night other than in camp as a gimmick ect.. Than dude call it what you want but it's a fact that IT IS nonsensical and IT IS immersion breaking hand crafted or not. (Coz yes all above mentioned CAN be hand crafted and doesn't mean poop. And yes I am aware that encounters will be/are hand crafted and that's not a problem to me, the problem for me would be for example to always encounter bandits close to tombs and not some times wraiths for example. Sense, verity and immersion are the key words and my concern here not a technique used to achieve something. N/D cycle would certainly help but scripted nights are also a solution but no scripted nights at all is nonsensical, encounters not curated by geographical locations is nonsensical.

Originally Posted by Sordak
what you call linearity i call hand crafted.
now id like a day and night cycle too.

but not having random encounters at night means that there cannot be grinding ad it means all encounters are hand picked
Posted By: Sordak

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 08:44 PM

obviiously youll encounter wraiths when the developers inend there to be.
When my players encounter undead, it is because ive considered wehter or not there would be undead in the region.
wheres the issue with that?
Posted By: Minsc1122

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 20/03/20 10:58 PM

Some simple D/N cycle "simulation" or some random weather effect time to time, for the cosmetic of the game would be great,
at least in important cities like Baldur Gate, where you go back multiple times.

To have a local ecosystem at some important areas, where you return many times would be nice, even without a real "clock".
So fort Joy is not always joyful, sometimes it is a bit cloudy ect...
Posted By: Doomlord

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 21/03/20 04:41 AM

I would like day and night as well, but with that said, given a choice between D/N or weather effect ( Fog , rain , snow, tornados smile earthquakes ) I'll take the weather
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 21/03/20 11:08 AM

The problem is that I see the patterns that indicates that they are not giving attention to those areas that gives players the immersion at all such as:

> Seeing in dos2 that weather is there just for looks and not there that actually affects the party in appropriate way. One can assume that BG3 will not be that different of Dos2..
> Larian stating that it will not have D/N cycle
> Specials post that they ignored the the request for D/N cycle in this game, this is the 2nd game and they should at least bake weather that affects us
> Seeing thieving at bright day
> Seeing Camp to be there without any actual reason to be there
.. so on...

that are the things that it seems to me that Larian doesnt gives a poop about immersion and they have set ideas about those elements and that is concerning to me

Originally Posted by Sordak
obviiously youll encounter wraiths when the developers inend there to be.
When my players encounter undead, it is because ive considered wehter or not there would be undead in the region.
wheres the issue with that?


ecosystem is a good idea Minsc but weather for looks is not. Why put it if it has no reason to be there?? its silly to have weather that isnt affecting us as thieving at bright day. well.. Its not silly if they are building a comedy: "BG3: Minsc & Boo" now that is a title XD

Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Some simple D/N cycle "simulation" or some random weather effect time to time, for the cosmetic of the game would be great,
at least in important cities like Baldur Gate, where you go back multiple times.

To have a local ecosystem at some important areas, where you return many times would be nice, even without a real "clock".
So fort Joy is not always joyful, sometimes it is a bit cloudy ect...
Posted By: Minsc1122

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 21/03/20 02:02 PM

Originally Posted by PeteRock
The problem is that I see the patterns that indicates that they are not giving attention to those areas that gives players the immersion at all such as:

ecosystem is a good idea Minsc but weather for looks is not. Why put it if it has no reason to be there?? its silly to have weather that isnt affecting us as thieving at bright day. well.. Its not silly if they are building a comedy: "BG3: Minsc & Boo" now that is a title XD

Originally Posted by Minsc1122
Some simple D/N cycle "simulation" or some random weather effect time to time, for the cosmetic of the game would be great,
at least in important cities like Baldur Gate, where you go back multiple times.

To have a local ecosystem at some important areas, where you return many times would be nice, even without a real "clock".
So fort Joy is not always joyful, sometimes it is a bit cloudy ect...



It can affect, what I meant, that I am happy for a minimalist approach for both D/N cycle and weather. No need for implementing crazy AI, or separate bed for each person, or super complex weather system.
To use it as a tool to tell a story not something, that determines a story.

With some "local time zone", for areas without much complexity, and without even a real "clock", which mostly for the looks and feel of the game. Different music for night, or maybe some bandits, appear at some quest events only at night. For the zones where it makes sense to have it they can add it, like main areas you return to.
If they want to leave many areas without time zone, because of quest events, as they are it is also okay...

Weather effects could be:
Like constant wet/cold/warm effect on players depending if it is raining/snowing ect... Fire disapear quicker ect... Of course you would not want the whole map to be electrified, because it is BG3 not DAO2. Make it rare and turn it off while quest are done which do not want any weather.

Darkness sure, can affect the stealth checks, but I think the system is already implemented for that. Maybe weaker the sight of people while it is darker or a bit foggy.
Posted By: PeteRock

Re: NO DAY/NIGHT CYCLE confirmed by devs? - 21/03/20 06:07 PM

I dont think that these element are tied at all to storytelling but immersion & how much "just for looks" will be immersion breaking, we will see but I can agree on your valid points Minsc.
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