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#351810 25/04/08 08:15 PM
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Who has edited the holy sword because I just couldn't get the right stats?

I didn't edit it much, but I wanted that extra 71-100 damage instead of 61-90, and I wanted manadrain of 5 instead of 4. Everything else seemed to work out right. But after an hour of quick loading I finally gave up.

I absolutely hate random stats on items, I sincerely hope Larian drops this Diablo-esque idea of random item management.

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Originally Posted by KevinConner
Who has edited the holy sword because I just couldn't get the right stats?

I didn't edit it much, but I wanted that extra 71-100 damage instead of 61-90, and I wanted manadrain of 5 instead of 4. Everything else seemed to work out right. But after an hour of quick loading I finally gave up.

I absolutely hate random stats on items, I sincerely hope Larian drops this Diablo-esque idea of random item management.


In Diablo items were fixed (i.e the Arctic Furs would alway give +10 to each resistance), but it was more random where they would come from. In Diablo the monsters would respawn each time you loaded game, which IMO makes the game funner and last much longer, since you can just keep on loading your game and keep on upgrading even after you completed the game. I love div but I hope that in the next one item stats will be fixed, just like in Diablo . As for editing items, my personal tastes lean towards not using any sort of cheat code in any game, because if you do you haven't really
beat the game, just duped it.

Last edited by twoheadedragon; 26/04/08 04:11 AM.

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I only edited the item to include stats that other items had, while removing worthless stats.

I decided to edit it after I wound up with one of my Nobleman's Swords (quick save/load/identify) being 21-50 damage, had +10 strength, and was recuperation time of 15. Nothing else. It was more worthless than my sword of the parasite.

If I go through all the trouble of collecting holy items in order to forge a sword, it better be better than a sword I got in the first dungeon. None of the Nobleman's Swords were remotely better than my Parasite sword.

I hardly call my item edit as "duping" the game. It was a edit to make the item I was getting at least in line with the level of difficulty I faced in obtaining it. Under no circumstances should a level 1 dungeon item be more powerful than the game's "Holy Sword".


edit: Are you absolutely positive that there were no generic randomly generated items in Diablo? Because I remember doing a same type of thing with Diablo that I did here.

Last edited by KevinConner; 26/04/08 04:48 PM.
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In Diablo, IIRC, set and unique items had specific stats, but common items were randomly generated.

I prefer randomly generated items, since they allow more unique character builds (some games practically have a checklist, where this class needs these skills/stats and this equipment). To an extent, random items also add replay value.

However, it would be nice to be able to craft specific stats, or be able to commission custom equipment from certain mages or blacksmiths, etc.

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Well if there was a rhyme and reason to the random stats then that'd be fine, i.e. skill a or skill b at specific point value x, but when there's such a wide randomness that an item I get in dungeon 1 is more powerful than a final holy quest item, that's where I draw the line.

I like the idea of commissioned items, or a means to swap enchantments on an item within game parameters.

Raze -- AH, so that's how it worked. I remember some items were set but I couldn't shake the idea that there were times I kept save/loading to get the right stat combination on another item.

Last edited by KevinConner; 27/04/08 02:05 AM.
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I am ABSOLUTELY positive that in Diablo the item stats (i.e stats for "Arctic Furs") are the same no matter where you get them from. I've seen the game played through and won by so many different people so many different times, I can even tell you that the character who was picked BY FAR the most was the sorceress! wink I agree with you that it would be better if the stats were more like they are in Diablo (fixed), so that would put an end to all the loading and re-loading game (which makes it bitter irony for me to accuse you of cheating because you used an editor, while I loaded game 5-100 times to get a satisfactory one wink ), and therefore makes the game more enjoyable since you can look forward to the day you find something really good (i.e the whole Arcanna's set of items if you are a sorceress)! But
of course this is just my opinion, I do not wish to impose my opinion on others like Raze... wink

Last edited by twoheadedragon; 27/04/08 05:11 AM.

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I've run into the same named diablo items with different stats, so if the stats aren't varied in some of the items, the items themselves must've had the same name but different stats. Quite frankly I don't really care how Diablo did it, all I remember is I had to repeatedly save and load much the same fashion as this game, and it was beyond irritating.

Games such as the old SSI AD&D games or Baldur's Gate did not force me to do that, which allowed me to concentrate more on the quests and storylines themselves rather than "I need a decent weapon and all I've got is the same worthless level 1 trash for the last 5 quests."


edit: just for the record, there was some variance in drops for Baldur's Gate and the old SSI games, but it was never this varied. It was still on a steady progression scale.
Also, I think Planescape: Torment was easily one of the best Computer RPGs I've ever played. It concentrated more on you working your way through quests than item empowerment.

Last edited by KevinConner; 27/04/08 06:35 AM.
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I don't think all items in Diablo had fixed stats, though... they didn't in Diablo II, anyway (which I remember details of better than with the original).
In any case, I don't really see a big difference between randomly generated equipment and fixed equipment that is dropped randomly. Diablo invented reloading. The entire game is reloading. People have spent hours / days / months reloading looking for all the pieces of some set.


In DD the range of possible stats could have been narrower, especially for the dragon armour and holy sword, etc. While relatively unlikely, when reloading these items you could see fairly crappy results occasionally, mixed in with OK, good and very good versions. With a more consistent item quality people may still want to reload to get a specific stat (ie Frost), but you wouldn't have to do so to get something decent.


If there was some way to create or commission equipment, I think that would be good enough that most people would not feel they had to reload to get good stats on equipment. You would have to fix the drops and stats to eliminate reloading, anyway, which causes different problems. In Siege of Avalon, for example, you could only get what opponents were actually carrying after defeating them, minus anything that was damaged too badly during the fight. If you defeated a few weak enemies, you could equip yourself like a weak enemy. Each stronger class of opponent offered the possibility of new equipment upgrades, but most of the time you just kept seeing the same stuff over and over. At first you can haul this stuff back to town to sell, but eventually the price drops (supply and demand) and it isn't worth it to bother. Eventually I stopped even checking opponents to see if they had anything new.

There are games that have opponents just drop gold, or appropriate raw materials, etc. This could eliminate reloading, but at the cost of possibly making combat less interesting. With random drops, hack and slash portions of a game may get boring (there is no way to balance a game perfectly for everyone), but at least you know some of the opponents may drop something handy, or at least helpful.


The equipment / item system also depends on how the rest of the game is designed. With a lot of opponents and a hack and slash focus, you pretty much have to have random drops. With fewer opponents, specific drops are fine (maybe preferable) because there are not enough for it to become repetitive.

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You just said the problem: Reloading. No game should be based on "reloading".

Anyone who has ever played Strahd's Possession, or the Mummy's Curse, can easily see that a game company can still force your players to sit at the computer for days trying to complete all of the quests without resorting to the idea of "reload game until you get x item".

Same with Planescape: Torment.

It's true, not every game can be Final Fantasy 7, which is just awesome.

As far as creating your own equipment, I still think that FF 7 had a very good method with Materia (ever tried to max out all the materia? now that's time consuming, especially if you miss two boss battles for the enemy skills materia), if only it'd be applied to equipment making. Divine Divinity has a method in place, with the entire idea of putting gem enchantments on the equipment, if only they had expanded this idea.


oh well.

I'm one of those players who doesn't really like the idea of over abundance of magic in games. I'm more inclined to the Conan and the Ravenloft (original Ravenloft) concept of "very few magic items ever", type of situation.

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At first I didn't like random stat idea either. Some of it's little unrealistic. Such as George the shopkeeper who loves to sell dozens of broken 1/1 durability items.

I practically used the same weapon the entire game, that dropped on Pedro, because it's only sword I found that had decent charm on it, and I wanted the holy amulet instead of sword, because I had never found a good amulet.

For time spent, I learn one of the important strategies in this game, is to build your character around the gear you obtain, and skill books you find.

If you want the best stats on everything, you might as well just edit your character from the beginning and set every value to it's max. Where's the challenge in that?

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There is a potentially very good amulet in one of the 4 rooms under the tiles at the bottom of the Aleroth catacombs, and another in castle Stormfist.

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Note:Whenever I use the name Diablo I am referring to Diablo2. I've never seen anyone play the original Diablo.

Not every item by the same name has the same stats, just the set items (i.e Arctic, Hsaru's, Arcanna's etc.) had fixed stats. My bad! grin In Diablo the save-load system was different from other games, it auto-saved and every time you exited and the re-loaded your character, you'd be back in the last town you were in and all the creatures would have respawned. What I liked about Diablo was the fact that the success of your character revolved more around what skills you learned, not so much around your equipment. Whereas in div it revolved much more around your equipment since creatures don't respawn and once you beat the final boss it's over. In Diablo even after you beat the game you could beat it again in harder levels with the same character, and even go back to a difficulty level you already completed and kill the main bosses again and again. IMO, it would be better if item stats were
fixed, because then it would save a lot of time. I don't really see how you could keep re-loading in Diablo KevinConner, because then you would have to keep on fighting a horde of creatures before you could reach the main bosses! grin From my experience (and the experience of a vast number of gamers who I am acquainted with), Diablo is not even to the least bit a game based on "reloading till you get X item", it is much more of a hack-n'-slash game that revolves around your character's skills, and technically (if humans didn't need sleep, going to the bathroom, food, water, etc.), could be won in one sitting without even loading game! grin

Last edited by twoheadedragon; 28/04/08 08:09 AM.

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Originally Posted by KevinConner
As far as creating your own equipment, I still think that FF 7 had a very good method with Materia (ever tried to max out all the materia? now that's time consuming, especially if you miss two boss battles for the enemy skills materia), if only it'd be applied to equipment making.

I never really bothered with enemy skills...but I managed to max every materia while morphing the stuff in the sunken submarine. It wasn't really hard, considering I had only maxed str and vit on a few chars.


I truly hated trying to get good stats on the holy sword. Even though I did, I found the god sword even better.

Last edited by SirChronos; 28/04/08 05:01 PM.
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Darkmar, when I make edits to a game, I only make edits to fix obvious problems. i.e. TIE Fighter original 3.5 disk version had a mission where a rebel Mon Calamari Cruiser was disabled and it never hyperspaced out. The secret bonus objectives you need to complete to be in the Inner Circle of the Emperor included the destruction of all the waves of veteran starfighters from the MCC.

In the collector's edition CD Rom of TIE Fighter, the IDIOTS who bought the rights form Lucas Arts made several mistakes, one of them was changing the 99.59minute hyperspace timer on the MCC to a 29.59 hyperspace timer. Apparently when they ported the game, they screwed up the game engine so that all the hyperspace timers were set to just under 30 minutes.

The thing about TIE Fighter, is that the game engine could not have an indefinite timer on the ships. All ships had a hyperspace timer attached to them. It was back during the days of Dos and Windows 95. The Lucas Arts designers knew this would cause problems, so any ship which would be forced to hyperspace out, would come back within less than 10 seconds. The idiots who reproduced the TIE Fighter Collector's CD Rom (was not Lucas Arts, it was someone else, despite LA's logo), didn't realize this. So when they went back into the game engine, in order to make it smoother with better graphics, they totally screwed up the hyperspace timer and reset everything to hyperspace out and NEVER come back.

The only way to beat the game on secret mission objectives is to edit the fouled up missions back to their original timer settings.

If my 3.5 disks hadn't have been corrupted I'd have made backups of them.


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