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Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Lar_q] #355652
27/08/08 08:09 AM
27/08/08 08:09 AM
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Belgium
Freaker98 Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Lar_q

-Controls: Someone mentioned that it controlled well when I was presenting it, and it does, but then again I'm of course used to the system. To a certain extent it's similar to Hellgate London. If anybody played that game (regardless of what you thought of the game itself), I'd be interested in your opinions about the controls there.
-Controls(2): One reason for the WASD is because we're trying to keep the dragon controls as close as possible to the human controls, and that system turned out the best. It also works out with the cursor keys, but you're hand is fairly far away from the skill hotkeys then.

Might want to open a seperate topic to discuss controls ;\)



Whats the problem with using the mouse to move in isometric view?
1 hand on keyboard for skill hotkeys and 1 hand controlling the mouse..
Whats wrong with this setup?
(I haven't seen the isometric view yet i think so if someone could direct me to a screenie..)

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Lar_q] #355660
27/08/08 08:45 AM
27/08/08 08:45 AM
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Raze Offline

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 Originally Posted By: Lar_q
-Jumping: never expected this reaction, but something to think about

The somersault looks ok with the jump/attack combo, but IMO is a little silly otherwise. Watching the first part of the convention video again, it doesn't seem as out of place as first impressions, so I probably wouldn't notice it much after playing a few hours.

Hellgate London is an action RPG which uses first person perspective, so I never even looked at it. If the demo was a tad smaller than 1.46GB I might have downloaded it to check out the controls (though I'd would have had to try it on another system to meet the requirements).

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Raze] #355663
27/08/08 09:20 AM
27/08/08 09:20 AM
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I must say that when I first saw and played the game, I was also taken aback a tad by the athleticism of the player character. But trust me when I say that you get used to it very quickly and soon start to appreciate and enjoy the freedom - and possibilities - it brings. Now I'm of course so familiarised with it that the lack of this feature annoys me in other 1st/3rd person RPG games. The being rooted to the ground in Fable is one example.


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Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Macbeth] #355664
27/08/08 09:26 AM
27/08/08 09:26 AM
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Popular RPG games in the past have been isometric for the simple fact that technology couldn't hack that kind of game in 3D person or even 1st...

There is no such thing as RPG's are supposed to be isometric. I'm personally not a fan of these kind of games in 1st person, but other than that, everything works. The more control over the camera the better.

And if you can shoot fireballs, why wouldn't you be able to jump around like a Shoalin master?


It's one of these days...
Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Freaker98] #355670
27/08/08 10:58 AM
27/08/08 10:58 AM
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Oudenaarde, Belgium
Sektor Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Freaker98
Whats the problem with using the mouse to move in isometric view?
1 hand on keyboard for skill hotkeys and 1 hand controlling the mouse..
Whats wrong with this setup?


Well, for the human it might work, but have you ever tried this in a game where you control a flying creature that moves in three dimensions instead of just two? How will you fly up and down? We have some pretty cool environments where you can fly through, that would be impossible to navigate on point-and-click.

Now, we might split up the controls for human and dragon, but like Lar said: we'd like to keep the controls uniform for both, otherwise the transformation from human to dragon and vice versa would never be smooth enough and you'll actually have to master two control schemes.

Trust me, we've tried several approaches and the keyboard-controlled movement with mouse-controlled camera has by far been the best, most intuitive, and user-friendliest solution.


"The Large Print giveth, and the Small Print taketh away" - Tom Waits
Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Sektor] #355675
27/08/08 12:02 PM
27/08/08 12:02 PM
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Belgium
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 Originally Posted By: Sektor
Well, for the human it might work, but have you ever tried this in a game where you control a flying creature that moves in three dimensions instead of just two? How will you fly up and down? We have some pretty cool environments where you can fly through, that would be impossible to navigate on point-and-click.

Now, we might split up the controls for human and dragon, but like Lar said: we'd like to keep the controls uniform for both, otherwise the transformation from human to dragon and vice versa would never be smooth enough and you'll actually have to master two control schemes.

Trust me, we've tried several approaches and the keyboard-controlled movement with mouse-controlled camera has by far been the best, most intuitive, and user-friendliest solution.


Hmm i wish i could try it to see how it is.
Then i would know what needs improvement or if it's good already.
We will just have to wait and see.
And if something needs improvement or some such there are always patches \:\)

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Sektor] #355677
27/08/08 12:34 PM
27/08/08 12:34 PM
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Raze Offline

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 Originally Posted By: Sektor
Well, for the human it might work, but have you ever tried this in a game where you control a flying creature that moves in three dimensions instead of just two? How will you fly up and down?

Yes, 'I of the Dragon'. Page Up and Page Down (IIRC) changed your elevation, while clicking anywhere on the ground would have your character fly there at the current height. Most of the time you did not need to move in 3 dimensions at the same time, though there were a couple creatures who's attacks could only be avoided if you turned hard while either climbing or diving.

I usually used the keyboard to control flying, though, rather than point and click. There was no isometric camera angle; between 1st person, 3rd person and a following camera, I found the latter worked best (the 3rd person camera did not automatically turn with your dragon). With the following camera, though, you may have to change the angle higher to be able to click accurately on the ground somewhere, each time you wanted to change direction (no click and hold to direct your dragon's movement). I found it easier to just use the arrow keys, which gave better control over movement (and with the following camera provided a more visceral experience).

While keyboard controls worked great for flying, where you only need forward/stop and left/right to be able to move and hit another key to attack (with an auto-targeting system), it doesn't necessarily work well for finer control (at least not for someone who doesn't play FPS games). I've played a couple adventure games where movement was keyboard controlled and facing the right direction to talk to someone, etc, could be a pain.
You have not described combat yet, but even with just the character movement I think I would find a gamepad probably had better control and would be easier on my hands/wrists.

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Raze] #355684
27/08/08 02:10 PM
27/08/08 02:10 PM
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Netherlands
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The Games Convention trailer is out. I found it on Gamers Hell, but it probably will be available on other places as well.


See me @ The Locus Inn & RPGWatch
Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Myrthos] #355694
27/08/08 03:44 PM
27/08/08 03:44 PM
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If I had the option for iso view/ mouse click movement for ground travel only, I would not fly at all.

The Witcher got it right when they included both options: OTS/ WASD key AND iso/ point and click.

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: quasimodo] #355696
27/08/08 04:25 PM
27/08/08 04:25 PM
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Some of you seem to think that if you have your hand on WASD you can't push any other buttons on the keyboard. The # keys are right above WASD, so you put your combat skills in the number buttons on the left for fast switching, and less reflexive skills like lockpicking to the right. FPS games have been doing this for as long as I can remember, its not hard to switch skills/weapons using WASD, trust me, I play them all the time. This is all assuming that the hotkeys will be the number keys not the function keys, which would be only slightly less swift. Not to mention that it sounds like the mouse wheel is freed up to flip through skills rapidly as well.

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Raze] #355698
27/08/08 06:08 PM
27/08/08 06:08 PM
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Wandering
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 Originally Posted By: Raze
but even with just the character movement I think I would find a gamepad probably had better control and would be easier on my hands/wrists.

Yes, good idea. Assuming it's an option for PC and if my gamepad is responsive enough I may likely just play it that way.

 Originally Posted By: Tenorek
FPS games have been doing this for as long as I can remember, its not hard to switch skills/weapons using WASD, trust me, I play them all the time.

That's probably why it's easy for you. ;\) I very rarely play games with these controls, so really I'm just griping about being pushed out of my comfort zone.

Last edited by flixerflax; 28/08/08 01:31 AM.
Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: flixerflax] #355699
27/08/08 06:48 PM
27/08/08 06:48 PM
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Well I'll follow the game developements with interest, but I suspect the gameplay will be a little too action oriented for my arthritic old fingers.

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: quasimodo] #355729
28/08/08 03:36 PM
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About the controls : I'd have a kind of mouse sensitivity slider implemented, if possible.
The "backstory" of this is that Drakensang is too sensitive for many people. There had been *lots* of complaints first.

I myself needed a very long time to adjust myself to it, but i think I've accustomed to it right now.

But anyway, I assume that some people will have fewer and some more problems with it.


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Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #355741
28/08/08 08:01 PM
28/08/08 08:01 PM
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Germany
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Speaking of Drakensang, what about anti-aliasing?

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Boneman] #355749
28/08/08 10:16 PM
28/08/08 10:16 PM
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Well, it's complicated.

Anti-Aliasing should definitively be possible in Drakensang, but in fact it doesn't quite work.

If I remember this correctly, it will be kind of omplementted with a new patch.

Some people report that renaming the .exe file in for example bioshock.exe makes the NVidia driver think it is just Bioshock and thus the driver enables Anti-Aliasing for it - with this trick you can have it in the game.

I don't know too much about it, and I think the Drakensang forum is better for finding an answer.

It's complicated.




When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #355750
28/08/08 10:31 PM
28/08/08 10:31 PM
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Germany
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 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

Some people report that renaming the .exe file in for example bioshock.exe makes the NVidia driver think it is just Bioshock and thus the driver enables Anti-Aliasing for it - with this trick you can have it in the game.

I know. I tried that in many ways and (almost) all of the other tips as well, but it doesn't work for me. Now I'm just waiting for the patch that will fix it.

@ Larian:
Now you see what you force the player to do if you miss that AA-thing? ;\)

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Boneman] #355760
29/08/08 10:49 AM
29/08/08 10:49 AM
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Don't worry: AA is already supported in game.

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Lar_q] #355785
29/08/08 03:57 PM
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What about 1920*1200 resolution. And what type of minimap will be used?


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Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Morbo] #355786
29/08/08 04:00 PM
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Italy
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What wiil be the max resolution supported by ?

Re: Leipzig Games Convention [Re: Morbo] #355812
29/08/08 09:59 PM
29/08/08 09:59 PM
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 Originally Posted By: Morbo
What about 1920*1200 resolution.


Can't imagine it not being supported these days. If widescreen resolutions of 16:10 are supported, then it's a go. I've been playing games for a very long time at 1920x1200 on my primary 24" widescreen display (I have a dual-display setup).

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