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dd1 to dd2 #355280
21/08/08 04:42 AM
21/08/08 04:42 AM
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thirion Offline OP
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hi. im new in the forums ^^ so go easy on me please.

DD1 had alot of problems with it. most of you know that some skills dident worked, some skills were pointless, and some skills were overkill.

will the charecters and class's in DD2 be more "balanced"?

will they have a unique way of playing the game? (for example: rogues will be the only one who can sneak, mages will be the only one who shoot fire balls and other magic tricks..)

in DD1 the first major goal was to become the divine one. that involved (SPOILER) killing yourself in a ritual, and reapear in a new map, without an access to the old map. will DD2 be the same in that case?
(if it does, then blargh \:\( that ruin the fun of rp'ing xD )

on other note. i loved some zone music's at divinity 1 (the forest outside aleroth, the market place in rivertown..) im sure DD2 will be the same. but then again, i would not mind to hear some extra ambient music with trance element to it :P .. for example- this chillout song off youtube:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw6VTTLBqXw
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
theres 2 more thing i wana add.

in divine divinity 1 there were 5 elements. fire, lighting, ice, poison and spirit.
the most powerfull element was the ice. whepon that had (1)-(3) ice attack, were extremely overpowered, because 1 shot- and the mob is perelized almost forever.
i do hope that in dd2 the elements wont be THAT strong.
also. in the permement items you could have found in nature (all the items with specific names that alweys spawned in the same spot), there were a cheat-trick. the loading chage their status. and people could "modifie" the items as they liked it..
will the "named" whepons have a permement status, or will it have a random status choise?

Last edited by thirion; 21/08/08 08:36 AM.
Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355281
21/08/08 05:45 AM
21/08/08 05:45 AM
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Hi Thirion! Welcome!

I'm not sure what will be happening with the classes. I imagine they will probably follow the open-class system of Div1 and BD to some degree. Perhaps they'll offer incentives to select skills from a similar path?

On the music, as nice as the track you posted is, I struggle to see that fitting with Divinity's theme. We know that Kirill Pokrovsky, who made the music for Div1 and BD, is doing the music for Div2 as well. Maybe you'll just have to leave your MP3 player running with the game. \:\)

Good to see you here. Hang around and join our madness!

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: HandEFood] #355283
21/08/08 08:26 AM
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thirion Offline OP
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@handefood~
the problem with the open class system, is that it doesn't matter which class you choose, in the end their all the same. would be pointless to invest any extra class's in that case \:\(

oh i've seen in the forums that Kirill Pokrovsky will be making the music for DD2.
about the chillout, there are verient of chillouts, and about what i posted, it could fit a dangerius dungeon or sort. just like in heroes of might and magic (3-4), that it had soundtrack with beat in the battle.
but its just an idea :P wonder what kirill will say about this xD

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355284
21/08/08 08:41 AM
21/08/08 08:41 AM
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I agree about not having an open class system, for me creating a character is very important, i like to make interesting/very powerfull builds. It also adds alot of replay value since every class will be very different this way..

About the music.. are you crazy?
Come on this doesn't suit Div at all, we need music like in Div1.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Freaker98] #355287
21/08/08 08:52 AM
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thirion Offline OP
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fine xD

but chillout ambient trances are very similar to some musics from div1. (like the cursed abbey music) .. and some chillout ambient dont have a hard beat >_>;
oh well

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355289
21/08/08 08:56 AM
21/08/08 08:56 AM
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 Originally Posted By: thirion
that it had soundtrack with beat in the battle.

Sure, but more like "Heartbeats of Undeath" aka the music in the Cursed Abbey. The beat on the song you posted I like alright, but not the swirly techno-synth sounds, bleh.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355295
21/08/08 11:21 AM
21/08/08 11:21 AM
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 Originally Posted By: thirion
the problem with the open class system, is that it doesn't matter which class you choose, in the end their all the same. would be pointless to invest any extra class's in that case \:\(


That's a misconception. First of all, there are differences between the classes in DD, and they do matter: A mage will get much more mana for each point invested in Intelligence than a warrior, for example. Secondly, nobody forces you to mix skills from different classes. If you want to play a pure mage, you can limit yourself to mage skills. It's not like you have to go for the most powerful skills (or the same kind of equipment) with every character. I have played DD with very different characters, and it was quite a different experience.

The open classes make it possible to play the character you imagine, however. If you want to play a trickster who has learned a few magical tricks in addition to his rogues skills or a mage who started as a member of the city watch before his magical talent was discovered, that's possible with DD, and I think this freedom is one of the best aspects of the game.

The skills and the elements weren't balanced, that's true. At first, I thought that was a bad thing because you could waste skill points on skills that were hardly useful. But then again, you get so many skill points that it doesn't hurt to use some for "flair skills". And again, there are enough ways to defeat your foes, you don't have to go for the most powerful (or over-powered) ones like the scorpion traps.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Lurker] #355300
21/08/08 02:22 PM
21/08/08 02:22 PM
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thirion Offline OP
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when it comes to div1, it doesn't really matter on who get more status, what starting skills you got, or how do you look like. because in the end, not only they all have the same armory, but with the gems and all, they got the same status (700 life, 500 mana).

ofcorse nobody forces me to choose which skills i would like to play (exept the ghost walk at the swamp area :3 ) but if i make a mage, and wana add only warrior skills, whats the point of making warrior and a mage at the firstplace? that was the point ;\)

i remember that in div1, i tryed to mix all kind of skills, warrior sword man with mage skills..
in the end the warrior skills overpowered the mage skill in a way that i never had to use mage skills again. rogue skills are all the same in that case.
the only build that actualy benifet from mixing, warrior+rogue, is the archer build.

and about the skills.. i just would like to see them balanced betwin each other. oh and about the "so many skill points". if you build a set of skills, to what i remember, you had to save the rest for the cool divine skills, which would consume all the skill points you saved :3
but its all matter of taste

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355319
22/08/08 12:03 AM
22/08/08 12:03 AM
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I see your point that the character selection was purely about appearances. Hopefully they add the concept of requirements or synergy to the skills. Having Strength or Intelligence requirements prevents a player from becoming too powerful in several fields. I remember Diablo II's Druid had a lot of skill synergy. There were several skills, that while having unique effects, they also improved other similar skills, particularly in summoning. This would encourage the player to stay focused on summoning though there was still a benefit intaking some weather magic skills.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355337
22/08/08 10:47 AM
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 Originally Posted By: thirion
when it comes to div1, it doesn't really matter on who get more status, what starting skills you got, or how do you look like. because in the end, not only they all have the same armory, but with the gems and all, they got the same status (700 life, 500 mana).


Not really. My mage had very different stats, and he didn't wear the dragon armour, if you're referring to it.

 Originally Posted By: thirion
ofcorse nobody forces me to choose which skills i would like to play (exept the ghost walk at the swamp area :3 ) but if i make a mage, and wana add only warrior skills, whats the point of making warrior and a mage at the firstplace? that was the point ;\)


If you want to play someone with a magic training who discovers that he's much better at using weapons, you're free to do it. And as pointed out above, there is also a difference between a mage and a warrior character who both have the same warrior skills: As the warrior gets more life for each point invested in Vitality, he'll still be more effective in combat.

 Originally Posted By: thirion
i remember that in div1, i tryed to mix all kind of skills, warrior sword man with mage skills..
in the end the warrior skills overpowered the mage skill in a way that i never had to use mage skills again. rogue skills are all the same in that case.
the only build that actualy benifet from mixing, warrior+rogue, is the archer build.


If you only think about the benefits, if you just try to optimize your character using every skill and every piece of equipment available, you're right. However, I think that there can be much more to a role-playing game. A little optimization can be fun, but I prefer to imagine a certain role and to act (and level up) according to it. With its open skill system, DD gives you more freedom in choosing roles, not just the 3 or 5 or 20 archetypes that other games offer. This doesn't mean that everyone has to pick the most powerful set of skills.

I wouldn't object to a better skill balance and some synergy effects, but since will be a single-player game, skill balance isn't as vital as in a PvP game.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Lurker] #355383
22/08/08 10:02 PM
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thirion Offline OP
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ok here another question :P

in Div1, when you summoned somthing / taken control over minions, when they gave the kill blow, you gained less experience, then you could have gained if you did it yourself.

so. will it be fixed? or does summoner class is out of the question? xD
(this all should go to a question subforum :| )

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355422
23/08/08 11:40 AM
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I am and always was pro towards a class-less system.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
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"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #355452
23/08/08 09:07 PM
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Classes or classless - I don't mind as long as it works well, is well balanced and every skill has a reason to be there. And if you absolutely NEED a skill (Lockpick in Div 1 for example) you can get it in any class.

That said, I liked the Div 1 system a lot. Just needed the power of traps to be dropped (By about a factor of ten or so) and it would be pretty near perfect, if memory serves.


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Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Elliot_Kane] #355455
23/08/08 09:34 PM
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Well yeah there were some abilities that I would call, um, "killer skills". I mean, one of my latest characters had poison weapon + freeze + deadly gift which kind of was the combo that killed off basically everything... so yeah, I think evening that out would be better. And also, if there are same old skills from D1 and BD, to weaken the ones I mentioned (well, poison weapon was not that overpowered, maybe, but still... and freeze neither was, unless it was charmed into a weapon, but scorpion traps WERE overpowered...) but especially to buff some that were theoretically good (when you read the description, i mean) but not so useful when actually used. One example would be all the summoning spells in general (mostly, for the fact that the summoned creature did not follow you... one of my latest characters was a summoner, and indeed he had a hard time in the beginning till he was able to summon Death Knight), and some of the Divine's spells (having that astonishing Elemental Attack or what it was called, and then see there are only creatures with 100% resistance to all elements around... well, it make me feel like i had just wasted my skillpoints... and that spell that was supposed to instantly kill enemies worked just the same way) too. But yeah, I'm confident that there won't be issues of this kind in the upcoming game, or if there will we'll barely notice them in comparison to the good things.

p.s. Don't make music suggestions... really, making music suggestions is like saying that Kirill Pokrovsky's work for the previous games had some flaws. Which is, at least to me, totally false. D1 and BD's soundtracks were just plain perfect, and I don't think there's any need to make suggestions when the same guy's working about D2's soundtrack as well. Really \:\)

p.p.s. excuse me, I know I tend to make all the text and phrases complex, don't ask me why, and again, I'm sorry for that as I can imagine it's not that funny to read tons of "(" and ")" and text between those. Well, w/e \:\)


"The attack came at the breaking of the dawn, the sky was turning from a pitch black shroud into a shimmering canopy of red and orange, the clouds were just hinting at the night’s final death knell."
Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: PrecisionTime] #355458
23/08/08 10:18 PM
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thirion Offline OP
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i played div1 again.
2 issues i wana add to this thread:

drudanae (if thats how its called)
death issue.

if we die. could we revive?
and does adding drugs to the game really improve the game? xD

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355459
23/08/08 10:40 PM
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 Originally Posted By: thirion
if we die. could we revive?
and does adding drugs to the game really improve the game? xD

Divinity did seem brutal at first with its death system (you die=loading last save is your only option). This is in stark contrast to D2 or DS2, where you just receive a penalty and must retrieve your corpse, or Sacred or Titan Quest, where there's not even a penalty, you just start at the last autosave point without losing any progress (except walking). But as the advice goes, save, and save often, after every major fight, quest, or just every five minutes or so.
I don't really have a problem with death leaving you with no options but to load your last save game, BUT I think this could mitigated with an autosave feature that would kick in after major quests/battles are completed.

As to drugs, well it depends on the use. It can add depth/realism/grittiness to game world. George's murder was an interesting, multi-part quest, but I guess the vampire could have very well been a dealer for some other illegal goods.

In the Witcher, there's a drug called fisstech that your character can give to users/addicts as a bribe in order to obtain information. It allows for some interesting quest options.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: thirion] #355460
24/08/08 12:13 AM
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if we die. could we revive?

I hope not. If there are only minor consequences for dying, then there is no real suspense in dangerous areas and no tension or excitement during combat.


and does adding drugs to the game really improve the game? xD

Yes, yes it does. It is actually much more realistic to say that over-use of potions can have a detrimental effect. Not mentioning this could be taken as an implicit endorsement of drugs (anything that is wrong with you, you just need enough of the right potions). Drudanae is primarily used in medicines, and as in real life, strong medication can become addictive. George wasn't exactly portrayed as a popular, successful guy in control of his life; he was an addict, in debt to his friends, begging his dealer for credit and pretending to strangers that everything is fine, while trying to use them to get a fix. And then he died.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Raze] #355462
24/08/08 05:49 AM
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Ah yes, I didn't even consider the ubiquitous use of potions as drugs, but of course! Not to keep touting the Witcher, but this game (and probably others as well) had an interesting system where any beneficial potion (or alcohol!) consumed will raise the character's toxicity level. If this level gets too high, his coordination, fighting skills and even life are negatively affected. This toxicity can only be reduced through rest and meditation or with a cleansing potion.

DD, too, warns against overuse of potions and potion addiction in one the "magical tragedies" books that you find. I remember wondering, early on, if it actually would be a problem for my character if he consumed too many potions in a period of time.

Speaking of potions, anyone else notice that Diablo 3 completely abandoned potions and has enemies just drop health orbs that you simply walk over? Lame.

K, enough rambling. Off to get some .

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Raze] #355467
24/08/08 08:57 AM
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 Originally Posted By: Raze

if we die. could we revive?

I hope not. If there are only minor consequences for dying, then there is no real suspense in dangerous areas and no tension or excitement during combat.


I totally agree and i for one love that death = death in Div1.
For the reason you stated and that everything seems more serious.

Re: dd1 to dd2 [Re: Freaker98] #355478
24/08/08 12:22 PM
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I totally agree with Raze on the death issue. If your character cannot truly die then it diminishes the level of challenge significantly. It destroys the logic of the game world, too. Who keeps bringing you back to life? Why? Why does it only work for you?

The only way I've seen 'you cannot die' implemented WELL in an RPG (Please note caveat \:D ) was in PS:T where death can be a means of advancing the story. And your party can die, so it's not all easy...

The Witcher is, IMO, the best RPG since PS:T and a major part of the reason for that is it feels like it could be real. Actions have consequences, potion abuse makes you ill (Or even kills you, taken to extremes) and death is very, very real. There is a real sense of threat to the encounters because of that - a real sense that your decisions are genuinely life or death.

I'll take that any time over 'Drat! Two minutes walking to get back to where I was!' \:\)


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