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the language discussion (from ED section) #360376
05/03/09 06:54 AM
05/03/09 06:54 AM
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Foetsy Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: swordscythe
 Originally Posted By: Foetsy
Learning one common language (say Esperanto) doesn't mean you'll lose the motherlanguage. Welsh nearly died out 30 years ago, because everyone began to speak English. Now Welsh is back as the motherlanguage (and they still speak English too).
Actually, it does. I'm sure that, if nobody took upon themselves the task to champion the rediscovery of Welsh language, it would have eventually died out. I see it enough here. It's alarming how fast certain dialects disappear. Generally that is the consequence of having to do everything in another language. If everyone here had to do all official communication in English, unofficial would soon follow and the language would slowly but surely, die.

At this point, I think we're not doing enough to preserve our cultural diversity, and while I applaud those who would simplify communication, I must also insist that we not forget who we are and where we come from. Perhaps there is a middle ground, where the mother tongue could be combined with a universal language, but that would probably mean an autonomy of lingual entities instead of the current nations, which is rather impossible at this time. It's so strange that there are three languages in Belgium. adding a universal tongue which everyone is required to know, on top of that, is just silly talk. So you would first have to divide those lingual subnations - which is proving to be far more difficult than suspected.

I forgot the word 'necessarily' (on purpose, because I didn't know how to spell it, I had to look it up now). I basically know nothing about the Welsh example, to be honest. Some Welsh guy just told me once the story that 30 years ago nearly nobody spoke the language anymore, and because of that, the government said 'from now one the schools will teach in Welsh!' (instead of English). I agree that if no one took any action, languages will die out (of you start using one common language). But, as a Dutch expression goes, you are always there (or present) when it happens. The Welsh were, they took action, and now they all speak 2 languages, basically. You can always take action when it happens.
But why would lingual entities need an form of autonomy to preserve their language? Here in the Netherlands we have Frisian, which is still spoken. Probably the number of people how speak it is less every decade, but don't think (after all these centuries of Dutch being the official language) that it will die out soon.
I think there are quite a number of ways to have one common language all over Europe (used for international communication only for example) without needing to sacrifice the 120 other languages that are spoken today (in Europe).

In Japan there was a language that was spoken by only 5 people or so at some point. Thanks to a certain programme a few hundred speak it again now. Latin is a dead language, but even for that there are certain 'groups' that try to speak it fluently (don't ask me why).

Last edited by Foetsy; 05/03/09 10:27 AM.
Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: Foetsy] #360385
05/03/09 11:23 AM
05/03/09 11:23 AM
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swordscythe Offline
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Well, the Welsh example is exactly what I'm talking about. The government took giant leaps to preserve the Welsh language, because it would've died out if it hadn't. People always pick the easiest solution, generally.

But the Dutch situation is a bit different than the Belgian. Frisian is still spoken, yes, but that doesn't mean you're required to know it if you live in the Netherlands (as far as I recall). If you're Belgian, you're pretty much required to be bilingual (Dutch/French) for just about any jobs, at least in Flanders. On top of that, you should have a basic understanding of the German language as well, as it's also an official Belgian language. Linguistically speaking, I think giving back the German part (which we stole from Germany after WWI IIRC), adding Flanders to the Netherlands (or making an autonomous region if no consensus can be made), and adding Wallonia to France, would make everything so much simpler. Because if there is only one dominant native tongue, adding a second universal language is quite doable.

But if we treat this 'universal language' as just another addition to take or leave, it's never going to be universal. I am actually amazed daily at the inability of most to spell and phrase certain simple sentences in English. It's a language we all know from tv and internet, but it's nowhere near a real spoken tongue here.

Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: swordscythe] #360398
05/03/09 04:58 PM
05/03/09 04:58 PM
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Posts: 83
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Foetsy Offline OP
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You are probably right.
I still think one universal language (without sacrificing the native ones) is possible and not that bad.

Redistributing Beglium would be language-wise easier, but is ofcourse an entire different discussion.

Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: Foetsy] #360399
05/03/09 06:17 PM
05/03/09 06:17 PM
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Morbo Offline

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I believe in a world where we all speak english and curse in Chinese.


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: Morbo] #360424
06/03/09 10:54 PM
06/03/09 10:54 PM
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A
AlrikFassbauer Offline
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And sing in French.


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #360431
07/03/09 06:41 AM
07/03/09 06:41 AM
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Elliot_Kane Offline
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 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
And sing in French.


Surely German or Italian?

One would sneer elegantly in French! \:D

Last edited by Elliot_Kane; 07/03/09 06:42 AM.

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Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: Elliot_Kane] #360434
07/03/09 09:18 AM
07/03/09 09:18 AM
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Morbo Offline

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French is an ancient language in the year 3000


Not in the mood for cheese?
That excuse has more holes than a slice this fine Gorgombert!
Re: the language discussion (from ED section) [Re: Elliot_Kane] #360512
09/03/09 10:14 PM
09/03/09 10:14 PM
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AlrikFassbauer Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Elliot_Kane
 Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
And sing in French.


Surely German or Italian?

One would sneer elegantly in French! \:D


I wrote this just to add one more language. ;\)


When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch

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