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Hi everybody..You may find me a wussy laugh but in the previous games you didn't really need to fight (I mean, you had to cast spells and all, but you just had to click the character or select next with your keyboard (i think)) and I was very found of that..If I want to play hack and slash and need to have an interest in learning combat keyboard moves, I'll play diablo II..but i don't..I hate it..


Can anybody tell me if the new system is going to be a bit like the old one or is it going to be hack and slash style (I'm talking about the combat mode only ofc. smile

Tyvm



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The only official info about combat from Larian that I recall being mentioned is that Sektor (who at least at the time was working primarily on combat related stuff) said "In terms of clicking-rate, I personally feel that ED will be much easier on the hands than DD was". This was in the topic News from the front, after the discussion turned to a debate on combat styles (player twitch vs character stats, the evils of micromanagement, etc, and of course the click rate of various combat systems).

In DD you could hold the ctrl key down to automatically target the nearest opponent to your mouse cursor. I would assume in D2:ED, with no mouse cursor when not in the inventory window, that there would be some sort of automatic target selection (or, less likely, a lot of micromanagement).

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I don't know why, but I was kinda imagining that the combat system would probably have been like the one seen in Fable 2?



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Well, according to this interview from this year's E3, it will be a real time based combat syestem, yet you will have the option to pause/select as well. Best of both worlds for me. Here you go-

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_-fIB2vVc8



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Yeah its a straight up real time combat.
No turn-based combat.


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Sad, but nowadays no-one does turn-based anymore. frown


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Hmmm....Kings Bounty and Drakensang were recent releases that I have played, and both turn based, although implemented differently.


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As long as there's pause-and-select, real-time works for me (I call it pseudo-real-time). I love turn-based but only because it doesn't devolve into rapid click-fests. With pause, it's not something I have to worry about and that means the game will be that much more enjoyable.

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I also prefer real-time over turn-based, though i have to say Drakensang did turn-based combat rather perfectly. not a fan of king's bounty type stuff.

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Originally Posted by SheaOhmsford
Hmmm....Kings Bounty and Drakensang were recent releases that I have played, and both turn based, although implemented differently.


No, Drakensang isn't turn-based.

It's just with pause turned on or off.

Imho *real* turn-based games play differently.


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For me character can be real-time. Party in turn-based. (sp)

Have they said how big a part the creature has (also hirelings & summons).



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Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer
Originally Posted by SheaOhmsford
Hmmm....Kings Bounty and Drakensang were recent releases that I have played, and both turn based, although implemented differently.


No, Drakensang isn't turn-based.

It's just with pause turned on or off.

Imho *real* turn-based games play differently.


IMHO, when the computer goes through the progression of dice rolls, skill checks, saves, etc, then there is an action performed, sequentially for each character and MOB, then starts over again, rather than all characters mindlessly bashing away at the same time, then that is turn-based. The fact that it pauses is irrelevant. This just makes it easier to coordinate each turn.

However, if you are referring to something like King's Bounty, which stops play for an action to be initiated by the player as truly turn-based, then I get what you are saying.

Interpretation, I guess. smile


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Originally Posted by swalnak
Have they said how big a part the creature has (also hirelings & summons).

I would guess the creature could play a big part in combat, depending on if and how you choose to use it. There are no hirelings / henchmen, but there are a variety of things you can summon (the 'Summon Ghost' spell is the only one I recall specifically).

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Should have said; I dislike party-AI. That's why I prefer turn-based for a party.

My point was how do you control the creature & summons? If its designed that they should be used, but you have limited control (or even only call & dismiss) that's a concern. I consider them party members (game play, not story of course).

Is it viable to play a mage with out relying on pets?

Shea: are you saying a game isn't real time if the menus aren't affected by pauseing?

Last edited by swalnak; 22/07/09 05:34 PM. Reason: correction
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There have not been any details released on if or how you control the creature or summoned beings. Once the German version is out we may get some feedback on the viability of a pure mage playing without pets; there has been nothing official on any character builds.

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Originally Posted by swalnak


Shea: are you saying a game isn't real time if the menus aren't affected?


Not sure I totally understand the question, but for sake of argument, menu interaction is of little consequence.

Tabletop PnP games, (D&D, and from what I understand, the Dark Eye), people roll dice to take a turn; move, attack, cast a spell, counter these things etc. Any one OR combinations of these things constitutes a turn. Then the next player player takes his turn, and so on, until that round of turns is complete. Then the process starts over again.

Computer adaptations of these games simulate these dice rolls and this is basically my point. Therefore, I interpret them as turn based. These are only examples (maybe not even good ones), as there are many types of games that implement turns differently. Like I said, I consider King's Bounty to also be turn based, as do I believe Civilization can be if you choose. Then there is pause and play...totally differnt thing, but can also be part of turn based games.

The argument could be made that most all PC games operate on some variation of this...that they are simply random happenings based on an intial input(mouse click or keystroke, reaching a correlated spot on a grid, etc), made possible and shown on the display through transparent calculations and algorithms.

All I was trying to say was that for me, Drakensang and, say, Baldur's Gate, NWN, etc., are turn based games that you can play in semi-real time (i.e. without pausing). The fact that you are not pausing, doesn't make those games less turn based. The games are just passively(computer AI) versus actively (player) controlled.

I don't play shooters, but I imagine there are plenty of those types of games that are the mindless point and click type games that every PC, NPC and enemy can be doing something at the exact same time, non-stop, unitl only one is left standing. Sure, there are transparent to player calculations going on, but once the action starts, there is no controlling it.

I'm probably way off base, but that's the way I see it. hahaha


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Played NWN & demo's of Dark Eye & Baldur's Gate II (PC did you mean?); examples of real-time games please? Auto-pause was a pale shadow of turn-based, other 2 are real-time (or really bad/ unrepresentative demo's). Ironic that PnP rpgs are turn-based, but computer version so often switch to real-time without checking that it still works. Rule of thumb if 1 player can't control a party directly rather than by AI, it's not turn-based.

The games are just passively(computer AI) versus actively (player) controlled.
Did the Turing test get passed without being reported?

BG:DA I & II (console) are better (versus pc; solo-able versus bad party controls). However the necromancer with animate dead & shadow conjuration from the 2nd does illustrate my question on pet usage (AI with no user setting at all, similarly to in escort missions). If the interface & battle engine make pets non-viable, & other caster builds are non-viable due to shortage of alternative spells, that class suffers.

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be aware that NWN is a single-player RPG. Your henchmen did not a party make. One of the reasons why NWN2 was so bad was that you could control your henchmen, but they still didn't make it a real party. For instance, you could have three characters in your party with 20 Charisma and all the persuasion skills, but if your main char didn't have it, you didn't have it. Drakensang did that much better. I don't see what autopause detracts from turn-based combat. It's still turn-based, auto-pause or no. Those three are all turn-based, yes. Games like Dungeon Siege, Demon Stone, Jade Empire, Two Worlds, Gothic games, oblivion, the witcher... are all real-time, IIRC. I still think the future of RPG games is real-time, even though Drakensang did it so well. Turn-based is a great way for PnP RPG's... but it's not necessary, and pretty static, in a PC game.

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Agreed. Fighters don't take turns during combat. And non-turned-based does not equal "mindless".

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