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English Demo No Saving Games??????? #396631
24/12/09 09:41 PM
24/12/09 09:41 PM
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ozcot Offline OP
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Now come on you put a Demo out with hours of gameplay but it does not allow you to save a game. Is there a patch that will fix this issue. I saw a auto save and figured that would do but NO when I reloaded it wanted me to start a new game. There has to be a way to save.. Any help would be great..

Last edited by ozcot; 24/12/09 10:24 PM.
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ozcot] #396638
25/12/09 12:45 AM
25/12/09 12:45 AM
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Seriously, just spend a couple of hours or so and play it until the end. As this game is going to be a time sink. I don't think that you will be able to play for 30 minutes or an hour at a time and get any real sense of accomplishment or satisfaction from it and I think the demo reflects that. Regardless, you can save whenever you like in the full game.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ironcreed] #396640
25/12/09 01:03 AM
25/12/09 01:03 AM
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Libertarian Offline
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This "complaint" shows just how gracious Larian was when putting out this demo.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Libertarian] #396641
25/12/09 01:20 AM
25/12/09 01:20 AM
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ozcot Offline OP
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 Originally Posted By: Libertarian
This "complaint" shows just how gracious Larian was when putting out this demo.


Just makes no sense to not have any form of save game in the demo!! I would not mind if even just the auto saves would work. Why on earth would you put a demo out with NO save game feature I may not want to play two hours straight may only hve 30 - 45 min to check it out to get the full scope they should have put save game feature. Was thinking of buying the game but now having second thoughts..

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ozcot] #396642
25/12/09 05:15 AM
25/12/09 05:15 AM
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ironcreed Offline
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 Originally Posted By: ozcot
 Originally Posted By: Libertarian
This "complaint" shows just how gracious Larian was when putting out this demo.


Just makes no sense to not have any form of save game in the demo!! I would not mind if even just the auto saves would work. Why on earth would you put a demo out with NO save game feature I may not want to play two hours straight may only hve 30 - 45 min to check it out to get the full scope they should have put save game feature. Was thinking of buying the game but now having second thoughts..


Your loss, I guess. This is not the kind of game you sit down and play for only 30 minutes at a time anyway. That is, not if you want to get immersed into the world and feel a sense of accomplishment from your gradual progress and leveling up.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ironcreed] #396645
25/12/09 09:13 AM
25/12/09 09:13 AM
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No, it's Larian's loss. It's not an unreasonable request - we don't all have a lot of time. It's more likely to lose a sale than gain one, no?


Stuff @ RPGWatch http://www.rpgwatch.com/
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Dhruin] #396653
25/12/09 12:04 PM
25/12/09 12:04 PM
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Behind you cutting your throat...
Unreal Warfare Offline
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Behind you cutting your throat...
It's a demo, not a full game. It's only supposed to give you a taste of what to expect.

If you enjoyed the game bar a save system then buy the full game for the full experience it's really that simple.

I think you expect far too much for a demo to be honest.



Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Unreal Warfare] #396655
25/12/09 01:27 PM
25/12/09 01:27 PM
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ozcot Offline OP
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is is only a save game feature for god's sake I am not asking for more game play just a way to save my progress in case I am pulled away for a real life. Even just having the autosave feature would have been enough. What is the purpose of not having a save game feature provided with the demo? If you provide hours of exploration in the demo give the player a chance to save his progress I can see a 30 min to 1 hour demo not having a save feature but one as vast as this screams to have one. Plus it does not even save your settings for video or sound settings as well. Not a good start..

Last edited by ozcot; 25/12/09 01:35 PM.
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ozcot] #396658
25/12/09 01:59 PM
25/12/09 01:59 PM
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Behind you cutting your throat...
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Behind you cutting your throat...
 Originally Posted By: ozcot
is is only a save game feature for god's sake


It is only a demo for gods sake.

I could understand everyone crying over it if it was the full game but it's a demo.

While it may not have hurt it's nothing to get so worked up about.

Last edited by Unreal Warfare; 25/12/09 02:00 PM.


Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Dhruin] #396667
25/12/09 04:26 PM
25/12/09 04:26 PM
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Libertarian Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Dhruin
No, it's Larian's loss. It's not an unreasonable request - we don't all have a lot of time. It's more likely to lose a sale than gain one, no?


The retail copy has a save anywhere feature, thus this "I'm a super busy guy and don't have the time" complaint is a moot point. Larian probably didn't put the option in the demo because they want people to go out and buy it instead of just playing and saving in the demo.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: ozcot] #396687
25/12/09 08:08 PM
25/12/09 08:08 PM
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Raze Offline

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A save feature is not an unreasonable request. In theory you can get a feel for the game mechanics and test out the game without needing to save, so the lack of saves isn't a big deal. I installed the demo to see if a system could play it (doesn't quite meet minimum requirements), and uninstalled due to sluggish responses, without even thinking to try to save/load. However, I can certainly recall other games where there were issues with the controls or questionable gameplay, so that I needed to finish the demo to allow enough time to get a feel for the game. In those cases, lack of saves would have caused a problem.

Even assuming there are no tough battles that would have you starting over after 20 minutes if you die (or does the demo auto-save kick in during the same session?), lack of saves means you can not reload to try quests different ways, or see how NPCs react to different conversation choices. You can go through the demo multiple times, but that isn't quite as immediate.

With one game I installed the demo, but then got busy for awhile and forgot about it for another while. When I got around to trying it out again a little over a month later, it had expired (didn't see anything about a 30 day expiration when I downloaded or installed it). I emailed customer service to see if I could get the time reset, and they said it expired so hackers couldn't use the demo to help bypass the copy protection in the full game; I don't know if it got cracked (wasn't that popular a game) but if so I'm pretty sure they didn't need the demo to do so. Their suggestions (re-install, play under a different user account) didn't help (had already tried), so if I had not been able to try the demo on a different computer, I would not have gotten the game (twice even; one for a Christmas present).

Anyway, presumably Larian and/or the various publishers have some kind of study that shows disabling saves encourages more people to buy than it turns off from playing, or prevents some amount of piracy, or something.


Oh, and welcome to the forum.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Raze] #396742
26/12/09 01:33 PM
26/12/09 01:33 PM
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SirChronos Offline
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Years ago no demos (or very few) had save games :P

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: SirChronos] #396784
27/12/09 05:32 AM
27/12/09 05:32 AM
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Freewheeler Offline
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Im not saying it's a good thing that they made no save game but my opinion is that there trying to make the player sit down and play for a couple of hours instead of playing every half hour, save and take a break for x number of minutes


If you can, help others; if you cannot do that, at least do not harm them.
Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Freewheeler] #396847
27/12/09 08:35 PM
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ltolman Offline
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I too was hoping for a save. The day I downloaded it and played I almost got to level 4 when I died and it brought me back to level 1. I re did it and did the same thing; got to level 4 and died. Today I actually defeated the demo; though I apparently left things undone and this day I finally got a lot more 'auto saves' in it too. I really enjoyed the demo though the system requirements is.... well a lot. I didnt think my 2 year old PC would actually be a "minimium" to play a game; I tried it even on medium settings and the game was still choppy; but oh well.

Anyways I guess since this demo has no 'save' feature I'd suggest making sure you have at least 2-4hrs to even attempt to play this game. And above all.....buy those health potions; and drink it when you are down to 25hps as it regenerates 70+

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Libertarian] #396971
29/12/09 01:42 AM
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You guys need to look up the work 'apologist'.

Being abusive to your customers is not 'hardcore' - it is poor design. There is a fundamental design issue with the demo - it fails to implement something that pretty much every modern game - demos included - includes.

I am glad that the retail game includes save anywhere, so that big Divinity fans such as myself will be rewarded. However, there *will* be lost sales due to this customer hostile attitude on the part of the developers. You guys really need to step back and see that for new players, this sort of treatment by the game - and here on the forum - should be considered unacceptable.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: txa1265] #396972
29/12/09 02:43 AM
29/12/09 02:43 AM
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Raze Offline

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Lack of a save system is hardly abusive, and while some of the responses here could have been more sympathetic, they were not hostile.

There are going to be some people who are not sure about the game and don't want to repeat the beginning of the demo if they die. That may mean a lost (or delayed) sale, or they may attempt the demo again when they have more time or patience. I am sure Larian and/or the publishers are aware of this possibility, and would not have removed the save feature if they didn't have some reason to believe it would increase sales or decrease piracy (more likely the former than the latter), or something.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Raze] #396975
29/12/09 04:32 AM
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Thanks for the reasoned response, Raze - I admit my reply was a bit acerbic. I have a great fondness for Larian, recently doing a 'netbook gamer' article on DivDiv.

I regret the use of the word 'abusive' as it takes away from my 'user hostile design' idea. Remember in Divine Divinity how dialogs wouldn't close when is pressed? That is an example of 'user hostile design'. Things that do not work as they should based on standards, or that display a function that doesn't work, fall under that category.

Does anyone remember Dungeon Lords? The demo was not good, but despite protestations on the forums, was a perfect indication of what to expect. The developers often have a single chance to make their case to gamers, and creating a bad buzz in a demo is a great way to poison a market.

I have not played the demo, as I have it pre-ordered, and may be reviewing it for a game site. However, I have heard from console friends that the console version isn't very good, and the PC version has no saves and a game-breaking freeze bug that has existed for months but not been addressed. These things send a message to gamers - and even hardcore fans are given pause by this turn of events.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: txa1265] #396981
29/12/09 07:40 AM
29/12/09 07:40 AM
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Raze Offline

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The point of a demo isn't to be user friendly (though that is of course preferable), it is to allow people a chance to check out the game so they can decide if they wish to buy it or not. Most of the game demos I've tried I knew fairly quickly whether the game looked promising, or not. A few I kept playing to see if I could get used to some quirk or if gameplay would get better, but usually my first impressions carried through to the end of the demo.

The demo I mentioned above that expired after 30 days was for the game Psychonauts. Playing it on a laptop I hit a section I could not get past, which required some timed, coordinated jumping and attacking. I assumed this would be much easier with a gamepad than a trackpad and arrow keys (it was, but still annoying), so made my purchase decision based on the gameplay up to that point.

That said, I'm not sure how lack of saves is suppose to be a net benefit, I just don't think it is a huge problem.


A 50+ hour game that has no saves? That should ring untrue to anyone with a little common sense hearing that.
The upcoming patch should be released soon. While it wasn't specifically stated that it would address the hanging cutscene problem some people have experiences, there are several suggestions in the forum for fixes that have helped in a some cases. Saying this bug 'has existed for months' is a little melodramatic since the game has only been out a couple months or less in most regions.

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: Raze] #396993
29/12/09 12:44 PM
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Huh? We aren't talking about an 'Alpha Tech Demo' or something like the recent Age of Decadence combat demo - this is a portion of an already commercially released game by an established company, and as such should be reasonably held to be an example of the quality and content customers could expect in the full product.

A demo is marketing, pure and simple - and is even more important in the case of the console release. As such, a prospective customer has a reasonable expectation that the functions provided will work. My understanding is that the game has autosave points and also quicksave functions. I am not sure how either play out in the demo, but given that they both exist, are documented, and neither pops up a dialog stating 'saving is disabled in the demo, but rest assured you can save anywhere you want in the full game' - I don't think it is unreasonable for a new customer without the benefit of years of RPG experience would try this, see that saving doesn't work as advertised (i.e. is *broken*) and skip the game - because it fundamentally is reasonable to assume that if a company can't get a simple demo right, why should we expect anything BUT a buggy mess from the full game?

As for the hanging cutscene, my 'months' comes from German friends who have said that bug has been around since the original release of the game, but it is with the English release that it has become epidemic (with huge amounts of 'me too' posts on the forum). I don't know anything about the issue or potential resolution, but apparently it won't be fixed for the North American release, which could end up with the game getting a reputation as a buggy mess which will torpedo sales even more ...

Re: English Demo No Saving Games??????? [Re: txa1265] #396996
29/12/09 01:25 PM
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 Originally Posted By: txa1265
a dialog stating 'saving is disabled in the demo, but rest assured you can save anywhere you want in the full game'

This part I can agree with. A disabled feature should be clearly labeled as such so that potential customers can know what to expect if they buy the full game.

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