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@Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? #418496
09/08/10 07:07 AM
09/08/10 07:07 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 20
Z
Zappasghost Offline OP
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Zappasghost  Offline OP
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Z

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Hi there,

The Respawn-Rate in DD-FOV ist horrible!
There ist no Chance to explore a Dungeon, because every five seconds new Monsters appear from nowhere. Yes, you earn some XP - BUT you earn a Tendonitis to. Sorry Guys , this is very bad Gamedesign. If you wanna do Respawn, look to Bioshock2. Here you can see something about intelligent Respawn.

Is there a chance to get a fix ?

Thx
ZappasGhost

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Zappasghost] #418516
09/08/10 09:31 AM
09/08/10 09:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 749
Lar_q Offline

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Lar_q  Offline

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Right now we're debating the issue - I'll let you know what comes out of it.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Lar_q] #418544
09/08/10 12:00 PM
09/08/10 12:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 27,527
Canada
Raze Offline

Larian Studios
Raze  Offline

Larian Studios

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Posts: 27,527
Canada

Is this respawning just in dungeons in FoV, or was it added to D2:ED as well?


Not that it matters, but the previous forum discussion on respawning mostly took place in the topic WTF GARBAGE.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Raze] #418547
09/08/10 12:22 PM
09/08/10 12:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Kein  Offline
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NO-NO, keep respawn!
At last we can get enough EXP for a true multi/universal class. That is what D2ED is lacking.

Also, casuals always can play on EASY. Leave the respawn on for Normal/Hard.

P.S. Wth is "Tendonitis"

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418561
09/08/10 01:04 PM
09/08/10 01:04 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,271
Stabbey Offline
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Stabbey  Offline
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I haven't played FoV, but there was an RPG called Sacred, in which enemies respawned literally as soon as you left the screen. This got tedious pretty fast, although a lot of that might have been because of the enemies who could Root you to the spot even if you were on horseback and just trying to run through the area.

I don't know the specific circumstances of the respawning enemies in FoV, but if it is reasonable, wouldn't it be better to have them respawn only after you leave whatever dungeon they're in? If it makes sense that enemies are constantly spawning in at that point, then disregard this, although 5 seconds does seem fast.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Stabbey] #418583
09/08/10 03:33 PM
09/08/10 03:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 14
DJPELMEN Offline
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DJPELMEN  Offline
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Posts: 14
Hi all,

My opinion and option.

Taken from the german D2FOV forum:

##############################

- in overworld (openworld) no respawn!
because of the feeling to comlete something!

- in Dungeons with mob respawn
but just after reentering -
!NOT when you are right there and Ki..ing them!


That is the only option
or
build in an ON / OFF trigger in the options
---------------------

So it's my try 2 translate our all wishes in english!

(Bad english, sry)
###############################

CU


Der Klügere gibt nach ... ...weil die Klugen immer nachgeben, regieren die Dummen die Welt!
Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: DJPELMEN] #418586
09/08/10 04:02 PM
09/08/10 04:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2010
Posts: 20
Darkhan Offline

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Darkhan  Offline

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Agree with DJPELMEN there on respawning.

Best way (IMO) is to respawn on dungeon entry, but not during.
World spawns though should not come back, or it might make traveling very tedious.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Darkhan] #418599
09/08/10 04:56 PM
09/08/10 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 280
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Silverdragon Offline
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Silverdragon  Offline
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I wrote in the german thread:

Open World Respawn: None. What is dead is dead.

Dungeons: No fast respawn while you are in. It destroys the believability of the world to go into a dungeon, kill everything and when you are on your way out (nothing else, just going back where you came)... it's full again. I mean... HUH? Respawn when you re-enter is fine. If you want to have a respawn, you can spawn only a few monsters for the way out.

Places like "Krähennest" (the from undead infested part of the city in the Addon): It is very annoying to kill everything outside, enter a house, and when you leave again being surrounded by a full load of all fresh mobs.
Here, you can have a full spawn for first time entering (no one has killed them yet) and then spawn like 1/5th to 1/3rd of the enemies each time you leave a house (maybe with a cap of 1/2 of the first load).

All in all, no matter what, you have too many and too fast respawns right now.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Silverdragon] #418608
09/08/10 05:47 PM
09/08/10 05:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 407
Libertarian Offline
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Libertarian  Offline
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Respawning enemies? Ruh-roh!

Well, it's fine in dungeons, but not in the outdoor environments. That'd be very tedious.


My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Libertarian] #418615
09/08/10 06:35 PM
09/08/10 06:35 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Kein  Offline
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Soviet Empire
 Quote:
Dungeons: No fast respawn while you are in. It destroys the believability of the world to go into a dungeon, kill everything and when you are on your way out (nothing else, just going back where you came)... it's full again. I mean... HUH? Respawn when you re-enter is fine. If you want to have a respawn, you can spawn only a few monsters for the way out.


Yeah, right, just because you were too smart to choose Normal/Hard diff and not Easy one, all munchkins must leave and enter into dungeon again. EVERY time. Great.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418621
09/08/10 07:16 PM
09/08/10 07:16 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 280
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Silverdragon Offline
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Silverdragon  Offline
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Hum... talking about Dungeons: I'm currently in the Academy and it's really getting a bit much to be real fun.

So "Story Dungeons" should get a special treatment as well. Maybe define a pool of enemies that CAN spawn and if those are out... like three full spawns and then you did enough grinding. Or tie the respawn to story events (riddles solved) and do not load "random enemies" but a bunch of story-groups. As the academy is right now it feels like "stretching game time" with waves upon waves of enemies.

Given how many nice quests are to be found in the city, this is not really necessary to make it worth my money.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418641
09/08/10 08:51 PM
09/08/10 08:51 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,271
Stabbey Offline
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Stabbey  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kein


Yeah, right, just because you were too smart to choose Normal/Hard diff and not Easy one, all munchkins must leave and enter into dungeon again. EVERY time. Great.


I thought he was being rather reasonable. I shouldn't have to lower the difficulty to easy to avoid annoying gameplay elements like entire dungeons that respawn every 5 seconds. You should just be thankful that there even IS respawn in the first place, because it's the first game in the Divinity series with that.

There is a difference between a challenge and poor game design. Since Larian hasn't done Respawning enemies before, it's understandable that they might not get it right the first time.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Stabbey] #418661
09/08/10 10:45 PM
09/08/10 10:45 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Kein  Offline
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Soviet Empire
 Quote:
I thought he was being rather reasonable.

Being reasonable includes having logic as well. Is it hard to take care of this hordes? Yes, as he said: it is. Then it is a DIFFICULTY issue and if you can't take it, play a casual, Easy mode. Don'
t even dare to play Normal/Hard, it is not for you.
Simple logic.

 Quote:
I shouldn't have to lower the difficulty to easy

Yes, you should. That's the whole point. Lower diff - less problems.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Zappasghost] #418663
09/08/10 11:42 PM
09/08/10 11:42 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 407
Libertarian Offline
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Libertarian  Offline
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After thinking more about this, Larian, please don't do any respawning enemies.

Go try out Sacred and you'll see why this is a bad idea. Believe me, I enjoyed the Sacred games, but respawning enemies are a complete pain in the ass (Can I say that here? If not, I apologize.).

It's not a matter of difficulty, but a matter of tedious gameplay and wearing out your welcome by constant enemy spam after you clear an area and they instantly reappear.

Sure, it makes leveling up much easier, but I feel that's because you've designed a rather poor gameplay system. Make a more natural progression where grinding respawning enemies isn't necessary.

Last edited by Libertarian; 09/08/10 11:43 PM.

My Favorite RPGs: Divinity franchise, Gothic franchise (including Arcania, so I think I'm alone...), Venetica, Risen, Two Worlds II, The Witcher, Sacred franchise, Fallout franchise, Mass Effect 1, Alpha Protocol, Planescape: Torment, Drakensang, KOTOR 1 & 2, etc.
Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418667
10/08/10 12:39 AM
10/08/10 12:39 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 6,271
Stabbey Offline
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Stabbey  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kein
 Quote:
I thought he was being rather reasonable.

Being reasonable includes having logic as well. Is it hard to take care of this hordes? Yes, as he said: it is. Then it is a DIFFICULTY issue and if you can't take it, play a casual, Easy mode. Don'
t even dare to play Normal/Hard, it is not for you.
Simple logic.

 Quote:
I shouldn't have to lower the difficulty to easy

Yes, you should. That's the whole point. Lower diff - less problems.


You do not know anything about what you are talking about. You know nothing about game design or balance. It is not simply a difficulty level, it is much, much more than that.

There is a difference between difficult and annoying. Even if all the respawning enemies could all be level 1, but it would be annoying to have them constantly spawn in every five seconds. The monsters in Sacred weren't that hard to kill. and they weren't terribly threatening, but they WERE very annoying because of the insanely fast respawn.

But they probably won't be level 1, they'll probably be closer to the player level. Combat against several enemies of equal level in ED was pretty hard and required retreating and evading, and a dungeon full of enemies your level which respawn every 5-seconds is a lot harder than a dungeon you can partly clear and then retreat from if needed.

Please explain WHY it is SO DARN HARD for you to walk out of a dungeon and walk back in.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418691
10/08/10 09:40 AM
10/08/10 09:40 AM
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 84
Beornegar Offline
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Beornegar  Offline
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 Originally Posted By: Kein

Yeah, right, just because you were too smart to choose Normal/Hard diff and not Easy one, all munchkins must leave and enter into dungeon again. EVERY time. Great.


Ah, so because you are a munchkin and were too smart to buy a real munchkin game instead of Div II, everyone else needs to either leave or play on easy? GREAT idea, Einstein.

 Originally Posted By: Kein

That's the whole point. Lower diff - less problems.


Nonsense. Have you played FoV yet? Then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Its not too HARD to kill respawning enemies, it's just tiresome and no fun.
You make your way into a dungeon section, find a locked door, turn back to look for the key - and have to kill the same enemies again. And on your way back, after you found the key, they are there once more. And after coming back from behind that door they are waiting for you already ... There is no challenge in that, just mind-numbing grind.

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Beornegar] #418700
10/08/10 11:08 AM
10/08/10 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 110
Belgium
Axel Offline
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Axel  Offline
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Belgium
Kein's comments are cheap. Don't take them too seriously. ;\)

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Axel] #418712
10/08/10 12:42 PM
10/08/10 12:42 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Kein  Offline
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Soviet Empire
Stabbey
 Quote:
You do not know anything about what you are talking about. You know nothing about game design or balance.

Well, if YOU say so then it must be true. Isn't? ;P

Alos, you know what is funny? Judging by your words Larian "know nothing about game design or balance" since they applied this respawn.
You'd better think before post :P

Beornegar
 Quote:
Ah, so because you are a munchkin and were too smart to buy a real munchkin game instead of Div II, everyone else needs to either leave or play on easy? GREAT idea, Einstein.

No, it's because you choose the hard difficulty.
Why casual gamer (you) does that in the first place? What the point? To feel himself KEWL? Bu you aren't and youk now that. Don't make bad decision, choose only thing you can handle.
THAT'S why the game has 3 difficulty levels. So ppl can choose whatever suits them.

 Quote:
Nonsense. Have you played FoV yet? Then you clearly don't know what you are talking about. Its not too HARD to kill respawning enemies, it's just tiresome and no fun.

Uh.. yes, I do. And I see no problem at all, even consider the fact I was forced to play as a weak character from the start (can't import my german save which I played with language hack).

Axel
Ah, great. So you SAW my comment about D2 plot in neighbor thread.
Good to know I was heard and it stroke right in the heart :P

Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: Kein] #418714
10/08/10 12:47 PM
10/08/10 12:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 843
Krynn
ForkTong Offline

old hand
ForkTong  Offline

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Krynn
Kein: we do listen to people. We read almost every post on this forum. We accept criticism and try to make up what we're going to do with it.

It just starts meaning less to us if people are acting like trolls. A strike at the heart from a forumtroll hurts as much as a boxful of puppies for me to stick my head into and cuddle them.


Tweeting @forktong
Re: @Larian - Do you Guys fix this horrible Respawn? [Re: ForkTong] #418716
10/08/10 12:56 PM
10/08/10 12:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,033
Soviet Empire
Kein Offline
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Kein  Offline
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Soviet Empire
There was no troll action. That's EXACTLY what I feel when got the plot's details in mind.
It was sooo lame (yes, sorry, but that's the word) so the only thing I could do is a pure reflexion and express via words I know.

Again, I would like to tell you I didn't troll. I just find it very sad you have continue bad plot line from D2. Without even any improvements and fixes.

P.S. And it is not just me, many ppl from russian forums share the same opinion about the game/s plot. Well, may be we're too slow in Soviet Russia, and when all ppl in teh world enjoy some simple and casual content, we are still stuck in oldskool era, huh.

Last edited by Kein; 10/08/10 01:00 PM.
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