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Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lotrotk] #460695
05/02/13 05:29 PM
05/02/13 05:29 PM
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What goal you are approximately aiming for, Lar?

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lotrotk] #460696
05/02/13 05:49 PM
05/02/13 05:49 PM
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Raze Offline

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Originally Posted By: Lotrotk
Is there a reason why these enhancements you'd like to deploy should be done before the game's release?

Most game reviews (which are a large influence on most people's purchase decisions) will be based on the released version. Presumably more features / content from the start will help with initial sales, and a better editor should result in more user made content.


Post in the Beyond Divinity forum for specific issues, but I had no serious problems with the unpatched original release, let alone the Anthology version.

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Raze] #460697
05/02/13 08:10 PM
05/02/13 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: Raze
Most game reviews (which are a large influence on most people's purchase decisions) will be based on the released version.


I see. So dlcs won't have the same effect then. In a way that reminds me of Flames of Vengeance.

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lotrotk] #460698
05/02/13 09:19 PM
05/02/13 09:19 PM
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DLC with added content would have an effect (like FoV/DKS). If it is just extra features, though, I'm not sure how many of the original reviews would be updated. Of course the DLC itself would get some reviews, but probably not as high profile.

Whether extra features are added as DLC or in a patch, that would also mean another set of QA and additional testing procedures (for the update itself and compatibility with previous saves) compared to getting them in before the original release. It is easier to justify that for large updates (extra content, etc) or very small ones that wouldn't need much testing. Before release there is more flexibility in adding features.

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lar_q] #460700
05/02/13 10:33 PM
05/02/13 10:33 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lar_q
In short, itís because itíll allow us to put more things in, prevent us from having to take shortcuts because of some development mistakes we made... And itíll allow us to put more stuff in the editor...

All those things would increase the fun for our players...


By all means, these are things not only the game developers want but also the consumers.

I'm not sure if kickstarter will be a good thing or a stigma that will follow D: OS all throughout. I can already see it being mentioned in the reviews. The fact that it carried the connotation "Larian ran out of money" should be a decent warning. Maybe, uh... label it something like "Bonus features for D: OS" at kickstarter?

------warning more freakin opinions ahead------
I don't know... IIRC some games that need "additional" smile funding went about it in a different way. They have different products for sale that offered early access to a beta version. It ranged from: simple access to an early version of the game to a high priced "investor level category" which gave the purchaser unique items, some collector material etc.

Well, IMO the benefit of that is, you don't come across literally asking for money, it's more like "Good news! Early access for a price!", where the truth is, "D*&%, need more money for additional content."

My mind's wandering off again, #^%& it.

p.s. and you can kindly ask them for feedback which they will readily give as fans of the game, you got money and free testing at the same time lol

Last edited by J747L; 05/02/13 10:37 PM.
Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: J747L] #460703
06/02/13 02:31 AM
06/02/13 02:31 AM
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Crowdfunding is a cool concept, in general. For D:OS, it might not be such a great idea. I'm not even sure "additional content for D:OS" would qualify as a "project" according to Kickstarter standards.

Of course, having additional content would be fine, and I agree D:OS looks promising enough to deserve a larger budget. I'd like to support the development of D:OS myself, and I can imagine there are many people out there who want to do so, too. Still, the Kickstarter project might fail, and that would attach a big "fail" tag to D:OS, encouraging magazines and websites to write about "the game that failed on Kickstarter", even though, ironically, there is and was enough money to see the game's development through. If you choose high goals that you don't reach, it can cause some unnecessarily bad publicity.

Like many people in Germany, I don't have a credit card, so I can't pledge on Kickstarter. And no, I won't get one just for supporting D:OS, although it's the game I'm currently looking forward to the most.

Since you're a Belgian company, have you considered using one of the European crowdfunding platforms? In the US, it might be taken for granted that adults have a credit card. In Europe, that's not the case, so European crowdfunding platforms often offer other means of pledging. They are also much smaller than Kickstarter, though ...

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lurker] #460704
06/02/13 08:55 AM
06/02/13 08:55 AM
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Kickstarter is the better known crowdfunding site. If you can make it there, you got a lot more publicity to share! But personally, I too hope the 'crowdfunded' label won't harm dos' reputation.

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lotrotk] #460708
06/02/13 12:29 PM
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If going to kickstarter means that you can deliver an open world which equals that of Divine Divinity, Beyond Divinity and Eco Draconis (at least, shouldn't be hard) than I am all for it! That is, if you aren't doing that already. =)

Also, more voice dialogue would be really epic. But yeah, kickstarter can be a great place to gain popularity and feedback for the game. So, yes, it is a good idea. :P

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Nightblaze1] #461090
03/03/13 09:05 PM
03/03/13 09:05 PM
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I find kickstarter to be a great idea if that can make the game better! Can't wait to have the game in my hands. YOu are by far my favorite game developers, your games have great stories, interesting characters and tons of funny things, like the tombstones the killer bunny etc. If there is a collectors edition for original sin I will by it day one without even thinking about it.
Love you (no homo)

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Lar_q] #461201
12/03/13 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: Lar_q

Anyway, now that the cat is out of the bag Ė how about it. Do you think it makes sense for us to go to Kickstarter, having read all of the above? Or should we just focus on finishing the game with the budget we have and reserve all the things we think should be added for some future game? I personally think that if ever a Larian game deserved a budget increase, then this is the one. Iíd very much like to to see multiplayer and cooperative dialogs and turn based combat as a new standard in party-based RPGs and this game becoming successful will certainly help that cause smile


Absolutely.

I have been playing CRPG's since... well... damn... I am getting old...

Anyway... we have watched for years how games have become more and more streamlined. With each successive release, we get less and less features. Skills get reduced, simplified. Dialogue gets streamlined for "hurry up" play. Thinking aspects get thrown out for instant gratification audiences.

This sells to the immediate crowd, but to be honest, I couldn't recall any of them if I wanted and I certainly wouldn't waste my time going back to play any of them if I happened to remember them.

When you released DD, I was shocked even then, back when there were still great detailed CRPG system, you took a Diablo like game, kept its "action" aspect, but then provided a full featured development system, questing system, and story that made Diablo look like it was a grade school project and even rivaled some of the better turn based systems around.

I remember that game to this day, have played it multiple times and heck, just talking about it makes me want to play it again.

The reason? Because of the depth, the detail you put into the game. The small details count, those "extra" features are what set you apart. Those are the things that make a title stick in someones mind years later.

I enjoyed BD as well, but... you dropped the ball with the random generated dungeon grind fest (finger in throat).

Anyway, the point is, if you can get extra funding through Kickstarter to add more, detail more, polish more to release a product that is large, fully featured and shows extreme attention to detail in all aspects... well... not only should you, but you MUST do this.

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Tanist] #461202
13/03/13 01:41 AM
13/03/13 01:41 AM
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No offense to anyone but I have feeling that Kickstarter for OS won't be successful (and I'm talking about gaol in 300k, for example, anything less than 100k-70k has chance to happen quite easily).

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Kein] #461203
13/03/13 03:42 AM
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Yeah, I think that if they actually want the Kickstarter to succeed, they'll need to be a bit more specific about what the goal is than just "increase the team size to add some undetermined amount of features."

Re: Kickstarter ? [Re: Stabbey] #461206
13/03/13 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kein
No offense to anyone but I have feeling that Kickstarter for OS won't be successful (and I'm talking about gaol in 300k, for example, anything less than 100k-70k has chance to happen quite easily).


Originally Posted By: Stabbey
Yeah, I think that if they actually want the Kickstarter to succeed, they'll need to be a bit more specific about what the goal is than just "increase the team size to add some undetermined amount of features."


I think it does, but as Stabbey mentioned, they will have to have a clear set of goals outlined for people. Going in "unprepared" worries people. There was a project that some of the crew from Wizardry pitched for a continuation of the series. They didn't have much to go on other than their names and past titles. Their plan was very vague and limited. While pulling in near 200k to start, the questions by backers led them to canceling the project due to being unprepared.

While I don't see that as being a problem with this game (as they already have a fully functional game), they will need to provide a clear goal list of what they want to achieve for people to buy into it.

Many Kickstarters have stretch goals that do exactly what Larian is seeking now with such a decision. The difference is that they won't be using the Kickstarter to for the main project, but entirely for "stretch goals". The result could be enormously successful.

Think about an already finished game that you have played. Think about all of the features you wished it had extra. Think about the games you loved, but wished it had more content to play because it went by too fast (it always does when it is a game you love, regardless).

Not only that, but they get a massive feedback group from their backers to help them tweak, tune, and expand on many things.

Personally, I would love to see more companies take this approach even with an already fully funded project. How many times have we seen a game released where... well... it just felt like it was "rushed", or that it needed "just a bit more time or effort to it"?

I think Kickstarter isn't going to be a fad. Looking at the numerous game projects being developed shows that much of the old concept games that are revered are coming back. Games that publishes refused to fund or mandated bland systems to appeal to mass audiences at the expense of a genre focus.

We are seeing games like Wasteland 2 (Brian Fargo), a new game from Richard Garriott, Shadowrun (returns and online), Project Eternity, Star Citizen (Chris Roberts), etc... all developers from the era of golden age CRPGs. You also have games like Planetary Annihilation (RTS) and many other concept projects that are taking games AND hardware (OUYA,Occulus Rift) to the next level.

I am not sure how many of you realize how suffocating the publisher based model has been on creativity. It has kept good game concepts from being created and destroyed legendary titles.

The developers need to be able to achieve what they desire. Let them achieve their full desires for a game and you will start to see legendary games being released again (nothing is meaningful these days, most are weak and lack innovation). Most of the innovation is being done in the indie market.

My advice is they sit down, write up a clear and concise list of stretch goals based on the amount of funding they get. Create a pitch video that specifically states their case and markets their existing product while focusing on the "key" areas to which the kickstarter campaign will achieve.

They need to be reasonable with their time, one of the pitfalls of this is getting too much and it extending the time tables (Shadowrun hit this problem, but it only set them back by 6 months so far). If they are clear, concise and direct about what they want to achieve, well... it will do well in the campaign.

Just looking at the system already, it is well on its way to being a complex and detailed system. With Kickstarter, they can get the extra funding they need to expand and refine the game to the same level of achievement they had with Divine Divinity (which really was a milestone accomplishment at the time).

I see this as a win/win, but as was mentioned, it needs to be done correctly.

Also, I would strongly encourage Larian (if you can get your investors to sign on) to look into the "kick it forward" campaign that Brian Fargo pulled together. It takes a percentage of your profits 5% (after everything is paid and clear) and you (Larian) will choose where the money goes to new projects on Kickstarter. It is honor based btw, not a contract.

I know this sounds "idealistic", but if gaming is to achieve greatness as it once was, if it is to escape the strangle hold that publishers have on the industry, the small studios, the developers, the ones who "love gaming and love making them" need to be supported and encouraged to excel, expand, take risks, and innovate.

Last edited by Tanist; 13/03/13 01:53 PM.
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