Larian Studios Forums Divinity II The Dragon Knight Saga / Flames of Vengeance (English) Divinity II - The Dragon Knight Saga How come I never heard of this game?

This one is great. Battles were great. Certainly long enough. Think I spent over 50 hours here. Voice acting is funny. Skill tree was solid. Customizing weapons was certainly good. This is a huge game. Nobody talks about it though. So weird.

WOW, how come this game doesn't get more attention?

Hopefully the upcoming games Dragon Commander and Divinity: Original Sin don't have the same problem.


Welcome to the forum.

So it's a marketing thing

That's going to be tough to rely on word of mouth mostly. These games need to be super solid.

Larian is self publishing their upcoming games, so marketing is at least going to get more care than from publishers of their previous games.

Let's hope so; here in Spain is little known, despite the effort put on the translation, and receiving great reviews from the press (specially the DKS binomy).

Is just sad that mediocre RPG games with tons of marketing get more attention than Divinity... anyway, I'm eager to see next titles ^_^

Yea, I actually came across this game at a flea market that bought a surplus from a Game Stop that caught fire. The disc didn't work so I researched the game and after reading several reviews I tracked a copy down at a Game Stop that was 40 miles outside of my city. They only had one copy and it was the only one I could find near me so I went on a road trip and I'm glad everyday that I did! Awesome game! More people should know about it!

This is the world we live in though.

I have always considered myself a fan of RPGs since playing Gothic over 10 years ago. However, up until now, the only RPGs that I have really liked have been the Gothic or Risen games (Witcher series is well decent also). The problem with RPG games is that practically all the AAA titles come from two mega studios, Bethesda and Bioware. I personally have found any Bethesda or Bioware RPG to be utter fkn borefests completely packed with borefest content, with Disneyland characters and gaylord dialogue.

These mainstream blockbuster games are put together in a well funded production line environment and therefore come out technically brilliant (especially in recent years), but completely lacking in personality.

RPGs that come from smaller developers (who preferably aren't American) go through a much more haphazard development phase, but one which allows for much more inspired input from those working on the project.

Whilst the games from the US based mega-studios tend to run very well, create good first impressions, and gain very good reviews from the gaming media (no doubt largely due to thier huge marketing budgets), these games for me, are ultimately souless (Sykrim being amongst the worst) empty games that fail to capture my interest or inspire my imagination.....at least not beyond the sometimes stunning artwork that can be seen in a game like Skyrim.

Games from small independent developers, tend to be released full of bugs and technical problems. This has been true of every Piranha Bytes game except Risen and from what i can see, is also true of Larian's Divinity 2. Therefore, these games can make bad first impressions and with the lack of a big marketing budget, the gaming media seems more inclined to dish out brutal reviews of these games. However, it is the RPGs from the smaller developers that contain the attention to detial, inspired ideas, and other idiosyncracies that at least in my case, has the effect of getting me drawn into the game.

After spending a day or two being disgusted by the general performance and control scheme in Divinity 2, having only played 20 minutes of the game, I can already sense that this game has a certain charm about it and get the feeling that I could end up really enjoying it....despite the fact the game makes me use the fkn mouse instead of keyboard to select dialogue options such as 'Fortfahren' or 'Beenden' (German version)

Small RPG developers are more likely to produce rough diamonds that get slaughtered by the mainstream critics and therefore largely ignored.

Mega RPG developers produced giant glittering polished pigs that get heaps of praise from the gaming media and go on to sell millions of copies.

the game makes me use the fkn mouse instead of keyboard to select dialogue options such as 'Fortfahren' or 'Beenden'

Can't you still just hit '1', even if the option isn't numbered?

Yes, but the dialogue stops in between every sentence, and to continue, the cursor must be moved over 'continue' and clicked when the word lights up. Also when a conversation ends, the same thing applies.

Sloppy stuff.....even if the 1.03 patch fixes it.....the fact that there aint a keyboard option to begin with is sloppy.

Edit: Oh, I see what you mean, I shall give that a try.

Edit 2: Yup it works. Thank god for that. Just as well I am prone to having a little whinge now and then or I might have gotten through the whole game without knowing that.

Yes I've noticed that.

I started playing games back in the PS1 days. Games were still smart then. Lately, especially when it comes to D&D action rpgs, it feels like a drought. Skyrim was a disappointment to me.

There are several games I've enjoyed that get little attention. Some of them were darn near masterpieces imo. But yeah marketing has a huge impact. Not much I can do except tell a few people. They did enjoy DKS and were surprised as well.

If I was rich I wouldn't mind supporting gifted developers in marketing. Other than that I don't have an answer for getting the word out.

Thing is though, whilst I admit that I have spent way longer playing games like Mass Effect or Skyrim than they really deserved to be played (i.e. around 20 hours) as a result of good first impressions and the hype making me think that the magic will kick in if I just have a little more patience and give the game a little more time, ultimately I am forced to admit to myself that despite the high production values and sometimes stunning eye candy in these games, that I am bored out my fkn brains playing these souless empty uninspiring games.

But of course, I know that I am very much in the minority with statements like 'Skyrim, the biggest most overrated borefest that video gaming has ever seen'.

What is wrong with other people though that they cannot either see this or admit this to themselves? Is it the case that the sheer wieght of hype and the pressure of what the world tells an individual to think is great, can really overcome the fundamentals of what genuinely entertains and stimulates the individuals mind? I personally know people who have spent over 100 hours on Skyrim before admitting to themselves that most of the time they have spent on the game, that they were bored out thier heads, despite telling everyone they knew how great a game Skyrim was etc.

Risen was pretty bugged on the Xbox 360 and a poor port too. That put me off purchasing Risen 2 (also along with the fact that the combat system was broken and could be exploited in Risen 1 and the combat in Risen 2 looked worst and the inclusion of QTE's is always a bad in an RPG - unless it's a pure action-RPG) which I heard was dumbed down anyway.

Most who like the Elder Scroll games only do because it's open world and casual (i.e you can just jump in and play it kinda like a Call of Duty game, indeed it's no surprise to me when I see CoD fans talking about Skyrim) or they're the original fans of the series.

Bioware RPG's are pretty good, if we're talking about Baldur's Gate, Neverwinter Nights and Dragon Age: Origins. Mass Effect 1 and 2 are alright but the third was too dumbed down and restricted whilst Dragon Age 2 was similarly a rush job. In fact the only Bioware games I've thought have been truly outstanding have been Baldur's Gate 1&2, Neverwinter Nights and Dragon Age: Origins. Couldn't care for KoTOR or Jade Empire (which I thought was a horrible game).

If you're calling recent Bioware characters "Disney characters" then you clearly skipped everything about Loghain Mac Tir, Duncan, Zevran, The Architect, Justice, Morrigan and Leliana from Dragon Age: Origins who not only have some pretty grim backgrounds (Leliana was raped and served as an assassin to her lesbian lover who betrayed her, Duncan actually murdered a Grey Warden before he became one, lived a life of crime as a child and was originally going to kill King Calian for the "best interest" of the Grey Wardens, even during Origins he demonstrates questionable morals as he kills Ser Jory at your ritual pretty much telling you that you have no choice but the drink the darkspawn blood, it's either that or you fight him to the death, meanwhile Zevran grew up in a whorehouse, was tortured as part of his training and even tells you about the people he's killed not feeling any remorse for them and Loghain Mac Tir's character is morally questionable which gives him further depth never-mind the fact that Simon Templeman - aka Kain from Legacy of Kain - voices him) but aren't black or white with their morals too.

Disney characters on the other-hand are divided into the tragic and upright hero who has never done any wrong and the always humorous dark villain. Now honestly the only characters in the Divinity series who contain any sort of depth are Damien, The Divine One, Zandalor (who sucks in comparison to his Divine Dinity counterpart who had more of a personality), Bellegar, General Augustus and that's about it. There are other characters who are "good" and have well-written by dialogue but there's nothing about their personality or background which make them unique individuals who people will talk and debate over in years to come.

If you're applying the "Disney characters labels" to all Bioware games then I'd have to question if you even played BG with Sarevok and Jon Irenicus.

I couldn't care much for Mass Effect characters though. The only truly good one was Thane Krios IMO.

Divinity 2 is good but a diamond? Flawed diamond but nothing amazing. Divine Divinity is the amazing gem - which IMO - surpasses even Baldur's Gate. For me Larian has yet to top that. The atmosphere in that game was brilliant along with the freedom, role-playing, quests, story and characters who you developed relationships with over the course of the story.

In any case, Divinity games have always scored quite well. It's the lack of advertising which has led to it being something relating to more of a cult-following. This was the same for the Souls series (Demon's Souls and Dark Souls) before word of mouth got out about them making them huge successes. Dark Souls as a result had a better marketing campaign.

Yeah but Elder Scrolls are garbage. Capcom created a game in two years (Dragon's Dogma) which pretty much destroyed the entire Elder Scrolls series. Dragon's Dogma is how an action-open-world-RPG should be done (although the story and lack of meaningful choices are its major flaws alongside it being Capcom as the developer and publisher).

Meanwhile Dark Souls just feels so old-school. Exploration is actually dangerous and feels rewarding and the world is actually WORTH exploring and actions have permanent consequences (i.e killing someone, betraying a covenant, completing quest-lines). This combined with the fact that nothing holds your hand made Dark Souls my personal GOTY.

I think Dragon Age: origins was a great game. As good as Baldur's Gate and Neverwinter in my book. Also, I think Divine Divinity is the greatest gem of Larian; but, I also believe Divinity 2 is almost at its level (and certainly, vastly superior to Dragon Age 2 or the Mass Effect series; mediocre or bad games that got weird praise from media).

Maybe it's true that Divinity lacks character depth (at least, in terms of character depth as Origins, for example), but makes up for with a great sense of humour, and a unique approach to the plot and narrative. And with this, I would say that Larian gives something that other developers can't give: true personality and creativity in a videogame. Something that, unfortunatelly, its fading from the worn AAA market.

I liked Dragon Age origins. My only complaint was it seemed to have an unbalanced difficulty. There were places I had to switch to casual to survive. That dream world was one. Haven't played Dragon's Dogma yet.

It took a few hours for DKS to grab me. Once it did though I was very impressed. Mostly the game play but the humor sure helped.

@Demonic.

Perhaps 'Disney-esque' was just my way of saying I generally can't stand the dialogue between characters in any Bioware game. I wouldn't care if an RPG chracter supposedly came into being due to a soldier raping a young girl, who had a son, who then raped his mum, who had another son, who killed the father of the son, who raped the sons mum, who had the son by raping his mum. Games developers can push as hard a hitting background behind the character as they like, if they don't manage to make me care about the chracters or the sub plots and overarching stories in the game, then it is all Disney as far as i am concerned. Dragon Age was every bit as stale and boring as Mass Effect was. To me, it was just Mass Effect in a fantasy setting (which ever game actually came first? I am not even motivated to find out). An RPG is not the same as a book. With an RPG, it is not so important how good or complex a story there is. What is important in an RPG is how the story is told and that involves engaging dialogue between characters that is also easy to digest, and most importantly, also pertains to the various tasks and activities involved with playing the game, thus being of direct interest to the gamer who is motivated towards finding a magic sword for example. A huge complex and 'heartbreaking' background that has no bearing on the things that actually have to be done in the game is superfluous and imo, damages the game. Bioware games are full of this sort of extensive 'filler material' that is totally irrelevant to the actual gameplay itself.

In a game like Risen or indeed Divinity II, the characters are actually all pretty simple with not a great deal of background behind any of them. But what the developers of those games do well (I play only on PC so cant speak for ugliness of console versions) is implement a bit of intrigue into the actual gameplay interactions between characters and factions, that are directly relevant to the flow and progress of the game.

Do you mean with this that you don't care about character background if developers don't manage to make you empathize with their creations? (I ask you this because english is not my language and I'm having trouble understanding this part)



I see this as two different styles in playing with narrative. I like both ^_^ I wish, though, that a bit of flavour is added to future characters in Divinity universe (note that I have said a bit; I don't want "deep" backgrounds for them)

What I mean is, that in Bioware games (Mass Effect for example), there is a huge amount of background information and dialogue between characters that doesn't really effect the gameplay. As a gamer playing an RPG, I have own set of interests and don't really give a crap about the hardships or background of some NPC in the game unless it is relevant to me.

For example, I couldnt give two craps whether an NPC was meant to be raped by her uncle or not, unless knowing this information meant that I could blackmail her uncle in order to obtain access to a restricted area, be given a big pile of gold or get my hands on a magic sword.

In the Bioware games, there is always far too much of this kind of bloat-info with no direct consequences on potential progress, rewards or pitfalls in the game....as if putting up with all the highly limited gameworlds and stupid invisible barriers werent enough.

I see, now I understand; thanks for clarifying ^_^

I think backgrounds and extra info about characters, history and such, could add a bit of flavour to the setting. I don't think this kind of content and the one that may be used to affect gameplay are mutually exclusive. But, at the end, everything depends in the general idea of the game -its identity, direction, or whichever name you wish to give.

And certainly, Bioware games tend to give insane amounts of background for almost everything, specially the latter titles. I agree with you: the contrast with gameplay limitations is irritating. Unfortunatelly, I see it as a consequence of the homogenization in the AAA industry. Nowadays, all producers want games to have almost every ingredient that made a blockbuster hit sales.

That is the way that all big media with big capital behind it has gone. The moneymen have thier tick sheet of what makes music, a game, or a film successful, and they comission the developers to deliver. Input from creative types is increasingly pushed to one side leaving very room for originality in the end product.

The best examples of this phenomena at work are with all the new mainstream music coming out that for a short while, almost succeeds in making you think you like the tune. This is because the artist (or the business people behind the artist) is using parts of rifts from 7-8 really good and well known popular music tracks from yesteryear, and just welding them together in the best way that their computer programs can fit, before getting some dancer to sing/mime to the end product which goes on to sell loads of copies to unsuspecting kids. But those who know better, know that the tune is pure and utter sh1t, find it almost unbearble to have to listen to it, and wonder in vain if a time will ever come again when modern music that gets airtime on MTV and the radio will ever again actually be any good.

Thing with music is that just one person can still work on a tune and produce an utterly brilliant piece of work at relatively low cost. Thier tune may never become well known, but that doesn't prevent it from being a masterpiece nontheless, that can stand shoulder to shoulder in every department with tracks from the likes of Pink Floyd, the Beatles, or pieces from Mozart. With modern computer games however, thier are huge costs involved in producing something that is up to the visual standards that we have come to expect, which is perhaps why truly immersive games bristling with individual character and personality that have come from 'indie' developers such as Larian, the end product looks and runs like something from ten years ago (NB*) and would really struggle to pass quality control of the big publishers and indeed that of the gaming masses, despite the brilliance that lies beneath its damn ugly skin.

NB* Actually, some games from over ten years ago look and run much better than Divinity 2. If you haven't already played it, check out Gothic 2 with a widescreen patch. Gothic 2, released in 2002, in most repsects looks like it was a generation ahead of Divinity 2 and is a blindingly good game to boot......perhaps my fav game of all time actually.

Mass Effect wasn't that great to me. I found the characters of Mass Effect 2 more interesting but learning everything about the characters and the universe wasn't really that relevant to me. Dragon Age: Origins on the other-hand was more interesting and dialogue wasn't sci-fi "mumbo jumbo" and was actually worth listening to.

Quite frankly a game featuring companions only talking about their tasks and nothing else leads to the characters being unbelievable and unrealistic especially in the case of Origins where you're travelling with these companions for months it makes sense that your character would get to know them. Nonetheless you can choose to ignore them and the only time they will talk to will concern plot-related subjects.



How else can they make you "connect" to the characters? If they only speak about the task at hand then we get the pawns from Dragon's Dogma which lack personality. You're not forced to speak to the companions anyway once you recruit them so if you wasted your time talking to them knowing you wouldn't like what they have to say then that's your own fault there.



What intrigue? The only character worth mentioning from Risen is the Inquistor. Now with Divinity 2 why should I even bother saving a world when the developers can't make me care for the characters? Even if there is some intrigue behind them how can that make me care when they are lacking in personality and history? Origins is one of the few RPG's that actually had me caring about the world and characters.