Larian Banner: Baldur's Gate Patch 9
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4
Joined: Nov 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2010
BloodRayne - a franchise so successful it had two games and then disappeared completely until recently there was a low-budget sprite-based spin-off. This seems to be the fate of many "fanservice first" franchises. Well, without the low-budget reboot thing.

Tomb Raider - the reboot is apparently the best selling Tomb Raider ever. It also has the least sexualised Lara ever.

I know "Sex Sells" is the conventional wisdom, but like so much conventional wisdom it may not actually be as true as marketing departments all over the world believe it is.

You are correct when it comes to modding communities - porn is one of the favourite past-times of the internet, it sometimes seems. But I'm not sure how many Skyrim buyers bought the game just for the inevitable nudity mods.

Joined: Jul 2012
D
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
D
Joined: Jul 2012
Firstly The new tomb Raider didn’t meet sales expectations, so while it may have sold more it didn’t sell as many as expected, and it’ll probably be the last tomb raider
Also while I had no friends whom bought skyrim for the nudity mods I also don’t have any that don’t have them downloaded, also maybe fanservice is something designed for the fourteen to sixteen year old boy range, but in all honstey its not like the graphics or ideas of this game are really all that mature, I mean the graphics remind me of dynasty warriors, and dragons with jetpacks is something you’d see in a saturady morning cartoon... in other words this game in my opinion isn’t meant for a mature/serious audience, so bring on the boobs and upskirty shots!

Also by game I mean DC not Orginial Sin, I believe Original sin Is meant for a mature and serious audience and agree to why it was censored

Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Belgium
enthusiast
Offline
enthusiast
Joined: Apr 2013
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by WotanAnubis
Originally Posted by Stabbey
To be fair, there really is absolutely no reason why the Lizard Princess should have breasts other than "it would make her more attractive to the players".


"And by 'the players' we mean straight men."


Lesbian gamers would probably disagree with that assertion.


* as usual this is imho (unless stated otherwise); feel free to disagree, ignore or try to change my mind. Agreeing with me is ofc also allowed, but makes for much worse flamewarsarguments.

It is a full moon night and ... bèèè! ... the Weresheep are out...
Joined: Mar 2013
journeyman
OP Offline
journeyman
Joined: Mar 2013
That's it, I am going to have Larian lock this topic down if I can.

Last edited by Fernando; 20/04/13 03:54 AM.
Joined: Apr 2013
I
stranger
Offline
stranger
I
Joined: Apr 2013
I mention Bloodrayne cause she was in magazines and movies as well. She was killed by Uwe Boll not because the conventional wisdom was wrong. And he managed to get three movies out of the series.

Uwe Boll got three movies out of the series.

Also I've haven't seen any information on what you claim for Lara Croft. Fastest selling sales of any lara croft game, but unless you believe 3.5 million is better than 7 million for the first game, 8 million for the second, and 6.5 for the third then you have no concept of math. Of course it should sell more than 3.5 it has already missed it's predicted unit sells for the first week.


As for self censorship well I found some talk of self-censorship from Swen.
http://www.lar.net/2013/02/28/self-censorship/#more-713

He calls a shot of the Dwarf Princesses breasts to be sexiest. So I think there is some backing to the idea that this game has and may even do more to censorship the game before release. On the other he seems to not be pushing it too hard and most of the princesses are still sexy, so I doubt he will go too far.

Joined: Nov 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2010
Uwe Boll's movies don't actually have to make money. Dude apparently exploits German tax laws to get funding. Or are you suggesting that Boll's movies sell a great deal to a wide audience rather than just being an internet punchline?

I mean, even if Boll's movies do turn out to be profitable, they're still made on a mostly shoestring budget. Hardly evidence that blatant fanservice is going to sell so incredibly much (because "Sex Sells!!!") that it would justify an expensive development.


And you're right - the new Tomb Raider does not yet have the biggest lifetime sales ever. I apologise. It does have the highest week-one sales in the history of the series. According to the guys who developed the game, anyway.

As for it not living up to Square's sales expectations. Well, let's face it, those expectations are insane. Square seems to be following THQ, gambling on big successes to save it from its financial failures. I mean, if the game is selling better during its initial release than any of its predecessors and it still fails to meet sales expectations, could that not mean sales expectations were unrealistic?

Or do you want to argue that they could have sold the expected amount if only the developers had had the bravery to cut a big round hole in Lara's shirt right above her tits?

Joined: Apr 2013
I
stranger
Offline
stranger
I
Joined: Apr 2013
I'm just pointing out that your critiques of my examples were not completely accurate. And certainly do not indicate anything you are trying to say about the majority or changes in selling practices. I could bring out a ton of games with fan service that has done well. Though I will never claim solely based on sex sells, its certainly far more circumstantial evidence then you have presented for your claims.

After all you have done nothing but made a claim and tried to disregard any evidence to the contrary, and that is itself not actually helping to support your claims about the views on gaming.

Joined: Nov 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2010
Originally Posted by IronClaw
Though I will never claim solely based on sex sells,


Good. We are in agreement, then. It's just that when you said the following:

Originally Posted by Ironclaw
So you don't understand that sexy sells in our culture?


I was somehow under the impression that you claimed that sex sells. It does not. Rumble Roses has vanished. BMX XXX was a joke. Dead or Alive continues, but its 'Xtreme' big-tits-in-small-bikinis volleyball games are less than frequent.

To be honest, I don't really mind fanservice, as long as it's done at least somewhat cleverly. I played and enjoyed Ar tonelico 2 and that game was one long sexual reference. But at least in that game when one of the protagonists dressed up like a dominatrix it demonstrated a metaphorical truth about her character.

Squeezing a scowling blonde into a metal bikini and expecting people to take her seriously as a melee fighter, on the other hand, is not clever. And I do not agree that such a design is somehow justifiable by pointing out that 'sexy sells in our cultural'.

Joined: Apr 2013
I
stranger
Offline
stranger
I
Joined: Apr 2013
Sex does sell, however the problem here isn't that fact. Its your all or nothing single minded definition of what that entails. You also seem to think sex sells only refers to a scowling blonde into a metal bikini and not the truth of the situation. Such as that even just a moderately attractive girl working at a sales counter attracts more sales than a boy of the same age. You could always look this up.

Also while this game is not like those fighting games, I disagree with your idea that the blonde in the metal bikini is less serious than the shirtless He-man in the fur boxers. Inmost game the woman is probably ging to played as much if not more than the he-man is. And as for being taken seriously that all depends on her game mechanics, same as the little girl that shoots fire at you, or that green slime monster character.

You can argue against the facts all you want, but at this point your just stating opinions as facts and elevating semantics as victories.

Joined: Apr 2013
I
stranger
Offline
stranger
I
Joined: Apr 2013
But then again, considering your avatar....I wouldn't be surprised if your not doing this intentionally.

Joined: Nov 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2010
Originally Posted by IronClaw
Also while this game is not like those fighting games, I disagree with your idea that the blonde in the metal bikini is less serious than the shirtless He-man in the fur boxers.


We are still talking about Original Sin here, right? And how changing the design of the woman is somehow going to lose sales because it's not as sexy as it used be?

I mean, this whole kerfluffle got started because the blonde currently at the top of a page got redesigned from your basic "stab here" cleavage&bare-midriff 'armour' to what we see now.

The dude did not get a redesign. Because he is already lacking in shirtlessness and fuzzy boxers.

This is apparently enough to start people screaming about censorship and Larian's abandonment of their artistic integrity.

Joined: Apr 2013
I
stranger
Offline
stranger
I
Joined: Apr 2013
We, as in you and me got started on your claims on the majority. As for the claims of censorship I actually agreed at first that them changing it wasn't by itself a sign of censorship, you choose to ignore that part of my statement. You also choose to ignore the point I made that you clearly have an agenda in lessening the preceived sexualization, and so would like the change regardless of why he did it.

And as I posted Swen Vincke has made comments about sexism in his own game, so I have provided at least some circumstantial evidence that it might of been an attempt at self-censorship.

http://www.lar.net/2013/02/28/self-censorship/#more-713


Last edited by IronClaw; 20/04/13 03:37 PM.
Joined: Mar 2003
A
veteran
Offline
veteran
A
Joined: Mar 2003
I think I already wrote something about sexism somewhere within my "RPG Snippets", if I remember correctly : http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=321697#Post321697



When you find a big kettle of crazy, it's best not to stir it.
--Dilbert cartoon

"Interplay.some zombiefied unlife thing going on there" - skavenhorde at RPGWatch
Joined: Jun 2003
old hand
Offline
old hand
Joined: Jun 2003
This post to be more precise I guess (if the link works properly): http://www.larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=459403#Post459777

Joined: Jun 2012
apprentice
Offline
apprentice
Joined: Jun 2012
Her body is perfect! But her face should have looked more like a lizard. Now she just looks like a navi!

Joined: Apr 2013
R
stranger
Offline
stranger
R
Joined: Apr 2013
Originally Posted by demidevil
Firstly The new tomb Raider didn’t meet sales expectations, so while it may have sold more it didn’t sell as many as expected, and it’ll probably be the last tomb raider


Funnily enough, I registered for the forums simply to tap this one out.

Square-Enix wanted some 5.5 million(!) units of Tomb Raider sold. They ended up with something in the area of 3.7, if I recall right - Which is still amazingly good. You can have high expectations all you want, but if you're selling lemonade, you probably shouldn't expect Apple-level profits.

More on topic, maybe the spikes are merely decorative bits of her dress - I could imagine Dragony or Lizardy races finding horns and spikes to be included as part of their decor.

Joined: Apr 2013
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2013
Imagine if you are a princess, as a political asset for your own race, you will have to appeal and best your competitor in many aspect. It doesn't matter how 'you' would like to approach it, but in a situation of political marriage, results matter. I would do a salve Leia outfit if that's what it takes to win my race a strong ally with a freaking jetpack mounting dragon. I'll do magical plastic surgery to make me appeal more to human even if I'm a (half) lizard woman.

So quit bitching about those minor details and focus on the story and gameplay.

Joined: Nov 2010
member
Offline
member
Joined: Nov 2010
Yeah, traditionally, when it comes to political marriages "hotness" was very low on the list of priorities. Money, land, titles and influential contacts matter so much more. On the physical side of things, having a history of great fecundity in the family probably wouldn't hurt.

Power and the continuation of dynasty are the important things in a marriage. Silly emotional considerations like physical attraction are for peasants.

Joined: Apr 2013
journeyman
Offline
journeyman
Joined: Apr 2013
@WotanAnubis I don't know what kind of context you refer to, but between waring tribes, "hotness" either caused war or stop war, there are countless incidents of this happening in eastern/western history. Maybe in a more stable environment where "hotness" is secondary when a dude with ambition would undergo such route, or a weaker nation would accept marriage to appeal to stronger nation by taking one of it's king's daughter as queen thus strong extends the political power and weak maybe exchange for security.

But in our case, our protagonist obviously is a strong contender to conquer that world, that's why he get to choose between princesses. In this case usually genetic kicks in, and somehow human prefer beautiful(in the standard of that culture) woman to bear their offspring. If our protagonist is a lizard race, maybe the princesses has to be more muscular to appeal.

Larian could just offer different type of clothing as choices, or people can create a "realistic" clothing/appearance mod for DC, that would solve the case. But consider people talking about Larian self-censoring their own content, while they are smaller studio compare to say CD Projekt Red(who don't give a fuck how people saying about their use of female character in game), their biggest pressure still comes from press and consumer. They want to get more positive exposure from press, and appeal to more consumer base while still remain their artistic integrity.

Ultimately people vote with their wallet, I say let Larian do their decision and we can check if Macbeth said is true or not. I got this game from backing D:OS, so I don't get the choice to buy it or not with these minor personal preferences.

Joined: Mar 2013
S
veteran
Offline
veteran
S
Joined: Mar 2013
oh great its the worlds most annoying argument.
we arent speaking about armor here.
we are speaking about clothes. Who cares?

What measure are "realistic clothes" on a fantasy lizard with boobs.
in a game thats based on satire.

why do people even still care?

Page 3 of 4 1 2 3 4

Moderated by  ForkTong, Issh, Larian_QA, Lar_q, Lynn, Macbeth, Raze 

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5