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Regarding the GOG issue. #482904
24/02/14 01:48 PM
24/02/14 01:48 PM
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AlexF Offline OP
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GOG.com announced that they will feature games with regional pricing, that is different prices depending on where on the world you live. Up till now it had a fair price policy, that is, the same price for everyone. Understandably this has caused quite a controversy and the GOG staff have committed to a further announcement to clarify things.

The reason I mention this in the Original Sin forum is that they used Original Sin as an example. Here is the quote:

"TheEnigmaticT: Divinity: Original Sin is an example of the kind of game we're talking about; it's already launched on Steam for early access with regional pricing, and it wouldn't be very fair of Larian to give our EU and UK users a better value for the game if they buy it from GOG.com later as opposed to Steam now."

I think it is important for Larian to make a comment. Does Larian support regional pricing and more importantly does Larian forbid the selling of its games unless regional pricing is implemented?

Personally I think regional pricing as it has been implemented so far is extremely unfair. I'll speak for my own country, although there are worse examples, like Australia. Not all countries with euro as a currency are rich countries. Quite the contrary. The average salary for my country is significantly smaller than the average American salary, even after the currency conversion. Regional pricing means that I will have to pay much more than people in the USA for the same product while earning much less. This is a policy that's been around for years but that doesn't make it any less unfair.

Now the thing about CD Projekt (which owns GOG) and Larian is that they have been companies geared towards making great games and consumer satisfaction. For example Larian has said there will be no DLCs for Original Sin (a practice aimed at milking consumers dry). CD Projekt RED have given all updates and DLC for the Witcher games for free. Not to mention they are both European companies. That's why such an issue is important. If the good guys follow whatever the money-hungry companies do, then there is little hope of things ever getting better.

Since Original Sin is published by Larian, there is no excuse here. Whatever happens is solely a decision by Larian. Personally I've already gotten Original Sin for Steam. I'm against Early Access, but not on principle, and I wanted to support the game. However I am against regional pricing on principle and the stand Larian takes on the issue may affect my purchasing of future games by the company.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: AlexF] #482936
24/02/14 09:12 PM
24/02/14 09:12 PM
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unknown78 Offline
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I'm a backer of original sin and like to know the same. I already posted on the backer comments on kickstarter and made my own opinion clear (think so).

"Please Larian, don't stand for regional pricing with a product i backed.
1€ ~ 1.30$ = 30%
VAT's in germany = 19%
thats a difference of 11% which we useally pay more cause of "regional pricing" cause basically it alway's leads to a 1$=1€ translation for game prices.
Please stop this nonesens."

Last edited by unknown78; 24/02/14 09:13 PM.
Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: unknown78] #482937
24/02/14 09:18 PM
24/02/14 09:18 PM
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As far as I know this "1$ = 1€ = Ł1" conversion is entirely a Steam thing...

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Elwyn] #482941
24/02/14 09:31 PM
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unknown78 Offline
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Basically on steam it's the same like on humble bundle (or if happen on gog). The developer / publisher itself put's in the price for the different regions.

But one thing all tripple AAA publishers did was to make it "1$ = 1€ = Ł1". Cause yeah more money ... (shareholders and so on...)

There was (dunno if still is) an example of a well know publisher in germany which made germany pay €39.99 and all other regions cause not so well know 20$ ....

This just opens the chance of getting misused and it is very hard to find without setting up proxies and stuff.

I realy don't want to support it. I feel like facepunched ... first i'm asked to provide help and than using my help to force customer unfriendly solutions.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: unknown78] #482942
24/02/14 10:13 PM
24/02/14 10:13 PM
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Elwyn Offline
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I agree with you that "1$ = 1€ = Ł1" thing is kind of nuts! However, I do not mind if there is a region pricing for poorer world regions. I have been living in a developing country for a few years and I know that 40 € in Germany (where I am from) is not to be compared to 40 € in a third world country. In Germany, you can easily squander far more than 40 € by going out on a Friday night, in some other countries, it is likely to be more than half of the monthly income. So, being a socially advantaged European I am only too glad to pay a higher price if this can make a child happy somewhere else in the world.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Elwyn] #482947
24/02/14 10:47 PM
24/02/14 10:47 PM
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unknown78 Offline
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I totally agree with the point that 40€ in germany means nothing to me. But i know at least 5 people where every € count and thats exactly the point i made.

Even if you think europe is rich not all are and by forcing this regional prices you don't do anything to make it better. Instead you treat them as bad as the child somewhere in the other world.

So what is now better ?

But as i stated i'm realy angry on the fact that a kickstarted project where people all around the world participated to make it happen try to force changes to a brand (GOG) which worked out fine before.

Also if steam and other stores wouldn't have used the regional pricing to advantage of the Publishers / Stores we would never be talking about that. But regional prices are the prefered way to make something more expensive which shouldn't happen. At least lets say on countries with similar kinds of income and costs. Like for example UK/USA/Australia/Europe.

So if that is realy a need (which i doubt since even on humble the first game i checked was makeing the europe price more expensive and missused the system) , than it should be completly transparent. Like instead only showing the price in €. Show the price in 'local currency' / $ / Ł / €. Also seperate Vats from the price. So you can compare it and decide to buy or not too.

But the argumentation right of now wasn't to treat customers the same way. The argumentation i read so far was ... oh we need to do it the same way like steam.
And in this point it's just stupid to use steam as reference.

Overall the last point i made in my former post still is valid.
I don't can fix all isues on the world but makeing it more open to missuse is nothing i wanted to stand for when i backed the project. (I have an idea which will be the second RPG GOG is talking about and if i'm right i backed that too smirk )

The money i gave was meant to make a game and not to enforce business politics. The people who asked for a GOG release asked cause they like the platform as it was. Changing GOG wasn't part of the deal.

So i wait for an explination of Larian Studio and i will than decide how my future towards Larian Studio will be.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: AlexF] #482949
24/02/14 11:46 PM
24/02/14 11:46 PM
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Originally Posted By: AlexF
Since Original Sin is published by Larian, there is no excuse here.

Unless Larian abandons retail (a significant portion of the game market, especially in places with poor or expensive internet access), they still need distribution for the game. That can either be achieved by making a deal with an existing distributor with contacts in place with retailers in a particular region, or Larian can divide their resources and try to build a distribution network from scratch in places they may not be particularly familiar with, at the same time as they are working on the game.

The French, German, Polish and Russian localizations are being handled by the distributor / publisher for those regions. Again, Larian could divide their resources and hire translators and voice actors in various regions to do it themselves. That would mean time and resources diverted from the game, or the localizations being delayed for months after the English release.

The distributors / publishers guaranteed a minimum number of sales, which gives Larian more money to put into making the game better. It also means Larian knows they will not loose money in the process, which would in no way be guaranteed if they had to come up with the money upfront to do all their own localization and make their own distribution deals from scratch.


Originally Posted By: AlexF
Does Larian support regional pricing and more importantly does Larian forbid the selling of its games unless regional pricing is implemented?


The current Steam Early Access price is the release price of the game, for both digital and retail versions.

I do not know the contents of any contracts, and am not speaking for Larian in this, but given the available information, it seems obvious that regional pricing was necessary to get distribution deals. Larian would have looked at what it would take to do it themselves, and determined that either using distributors / publishers was the best option despite the restrictions required, or it was the only option since arranging localized retail distribution from scratch was simply not feasible.



Originally Posted By: unknown78
But as i stated i'm realy angry on the fact that a kickstarted project where people all around the world participated to make it happen try to force changes to a brand (GOG) which worked out fine before.

If you read GOG's statements, they have had lots of games excluded as an option to bring there because of their single price policy, and in a few weeks plan to talk to a bunch of publishers about them reconsidering now that they can accommodate. Larian didn't force anything on GOG, D:OS is just one of the first new releases to have regional pricing.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Raze] #482950
25/02/14 12:06 AM
25/02/14 12:06 AM
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unknown78 Offline
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"If you read GOG's statements, they have had lots of games excluded as an option to bring there because of their single price policy, and in a few weeks plan to talk to a bunch of publishers about them reconsidering now that they can accommodate. Larian didn't force anything on GOG, D:OS is just one of the first new releases to have regional pricing."

It's not about how many others want it ... it's about original sin is named too with the people who want it. In my eyes D:OS should step away from it. But again it's not my decission i just know how i will react if that will happen.

Last edited by unknown78; 25/02/14 12:40 AM.
Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Raze] #482968
25/02/14 07:18 AM
25/02/14 07:18 AM
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AlexF Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Raze
The current Steam Early Access price is the release price of the game, for both digital and retail versions.

I do not know the contents of any contracts, and am not speaking for Larian in this, but given the available information, it seems obvious that regional pricing was necessary to get distribution deals. Larian would have looked at what it would take to do it themselves, and determined that either using distributors / publishers was the best option despite the restrictions required, or it was the only option since arranging localized retail distribution from scratch was simply not feasible.


Thank you for your answer but I'd really like to hear from Larian on this issue. It is really important for a lot of us for we feel cheated with regional prices. To pay 40 euros for a game that costs 40 dollars on the USA while having 1/3 the average US sallary (according to wikipedia) is preposterous.

Also take into account that Dragon Commander doesn't have regional pricing on GOG. It's 40 dollars everywhere.

One thing I've always liked about Larian is their transparency. Of course business issues are more sensitive than development issues but this is such an important issue for a lot of people that I'd really like to know some more information about it. For all I know right now Larian doesn't enforce regional pricing and it is just a misunderstanding with GOG (hopefully).

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: AlexF] #482972
25/02/14 10:19 AM
25/02/14 10:19 AM
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What's stopping you from buying through a proxy and getting it at a cheaper price?

Faking your geolocation is legal in my country at least.

Last edited by Chubby; 25/02/14 10:19 AM.

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Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Chubby] #482982
25/02/14 01:02 PM
25/02/14 01:02 PM
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I am here to second the general opinion of this topic - *NO* to unfair regional pricing! I've already got my two copies from KS so this is strictly ideological for me.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Ithiloneth] #482999
25/02/14 03:32 PM
25/02/14 03:32 PM
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I don't know the details but i suspect that Larian is under contract with the physical distribution companies to have a certain price in certain regions. If this is the case then Larian has no option for the life of the contract so I think it would be unlikely they can respond in a positive way to protest being raised on this (and other) boards.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: meme] #483025
25/02/14 08:50 PM
25/02/14 08:50 PM
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unknown78 Offline
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Make long stories short http://www.gog.com/news/letter_from_the_md_about_regional_pricing.

It's as i thought 3 games and one off them is a game i backed.
As i stated i feel ashamed and i feel honestly unhappy ... a plattform use D:OS for excuse to make a change which i never ever would have supported.

Sorry thats bullshit (and i'm sorry i need to use this word) and it makes me angry. But my decission is done besides something "wonderfull" happens which i don't think will.


Last edited by unknown78; 25/02/14 08:51 PM.
Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: unknown78] #483038
25/02/14 10:30 PM
25/02/14 10:30 PM
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Do you think GOG wasn't going to sell the Witcher 3 because of the regional pricing issue, but D:OS pushed them into it?

If you take a look around you, I'm sure you can find all kinds of regionally priced items (food, gas, alcohol, etc). As a Canadian, I pay 20-30% more for dairy products than in the US, due to protectionist regulations. Even electricity coming from the same power plant can be going different places and sold for significantly different prices. That's electricity, a necessity of life, not optional entertainment that you can easily wait for a sale or price drop if you do not feel it would be worth the asking price.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Raze] #483040
25/02/14 10:39 PM
25/02/14 10:39 PM
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Instead of placing all the blame on Larian, did you read the part which said:

Originally Posted By: "GoG"
Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Raze] #483048
25/02/14 11:01 PM
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unknown78 Offline
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But that has nothing to do with the price of D:OS. This game is founded. It already payed it fees when it's done. That's what the kickstarter was for.

No additional income is needed even i think additional income should get towards larian.

But this product is used to provide a political / economical change. Thats not what i backed for. Thats not what the GOG tier was for. It was meant to be released in a store like GOG "was", with all the principles they had.

If GOG change it's ok. But i'm not ok with Larian or D:OS is connected to that change on a product i backed.

Do you understand this? The first post said it and i repeat it. Larian should make clear there will be no price difference for different regions. If they don't can or don't want to (whatever) i'm done with this company cause i don't trust them anymore to make a game for gamers.

... sidenote , thanx to that and other thinks happened within kickstarter projects don't expect me to back anything anymore as i did.

Or to make it even more clear and sorry again it might sound harsh but ... thanx larian you are one reason why future gamedev's including your company might not have the same oportunities on kickstarter.

Last edited by unknown78; 25/02/14 11:03 PM.
Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Stabbey] #483051
25/02/14 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stabbey
Instead of placing all the blame on Larian, did you read the part which said:

Originally Posted By: "GoG"
Top-tier developers and publishers usually have contractual obligations with their retail partners that oblige them to offer the game at the same price digitally and in retail. When they don’t have such contractual obligations, they are still encouraged to do so, or else their games might not get any exposure on the shelves in your favorite shops.



That should be no issue on D:OS since there was no need to have a retail partner which bound them to such nonesense rules. Also they have known about the GOG release when they selected the retail partner.
Quote from there 80$ Tier on the kickstarter page:
"Digital copies will have to be downloaded via your preferred digital retailer such as Steam or GOG.com."

At the time when the kickstarter was a success GOG's principles where that 1 price for all regions.
See this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRdfYwvGTos or this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvaNgCTncLk.

So no i don't accept this as excuse.

(fixed typos)

Last edited by unknown78; 25/02/14 11:14 PM.
Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: unknown78] #483055
25/02/14 11:31 PM
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Originally Posted By: unknown78
But that has nothing to do with the price of D:OS. This game is founded. It already payed it fees when it's done. That's what the kickstarter was for.


Game development is surprisingly expensive. The Kickstarter certainly didn't pay for the first two years of development. Larian had contracts with distributors before the Kickstarter started.

They had to make deals to get Dragon Commander added in limited quantities as a Kickstarter reward, and contractually couldn't sell it for less than $40.

Contracts and deals are the reality of business. If you break them, then you get sued, and people aren't going to want to deal with you next time.

Too bad that you don't like it, but that's no cause to throw a tantrum declaring Larian is the fucking devil.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: unknown78] #483056
25/02/14 11:36 PM
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Larian had enough money to finish the game. The kickstarter and Steam Early Access have allowed them to add more stuff and will let them take more time to polish the game before release.

There were retail and distribution deals in place before the kickstarter (and mentions of Steam and GOG included the phrase 'if available' at the start of the kickstarter). That is how the localizations were done, by making a deal with a distributor / publisher for a region. That is why Larian was able to announce specific release languages at the start of the kickstarter, and said other language could be available later if they were able to get a distribution deal.


Larian has already stated that the current Steam Early Access pricing is the release price, for both retail and digital.

Are you saying that Larian has to abandon retail releases in order to make games for gamers? How fair would that be? Not everyone lives in places with cheap, reliable and fast internet, and at least for now retail is a significant portion of the market.

It is retail pricing that necessitates regional pricing. You may not think different prices are fair, but the majority of people in a particular region do think it is fair, since they keep buying games at the listed price, and retailers and distributors / publishers remain in business. The EU is an exception to a straight supply and demand argument, since the economies there vary much more than any other currency based region.

Re: Regarding the GOG issue. [Re: Raze] #483063
26/02/14 12:52 AM
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unknown78 Offline
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Again i say they neither lied on the kickstarter when already knowing that they wouldn't be able to distribute throu GOG on the conditions GOG offered back than ("There were retail and distribution deals in place before the kickstarter (and mentions of Steam and GOG included the phrase 'if available' at the start of the kickstarter) or they lie now and don't have this contracts which forbids them to make one price for every region. (sorry i'm pissed) .. or they made some decissions between kickstarter and now which should have been communicated to the backers (to maybe understand why regional pricing is stricly needed).

"Larian has already stated that the current Steam Early Access pricing is the release price, for both retail and digital."

Ok 40$ for all regions ... where is the problem ? << it's the same price which you pay in $ on steam.

"Are you saying that Larian has to abandon retail releases in order to make games for gamers? How fair would that be? Not everyone lives in places with cheap, reliable and fast internet, and at least for now retail is a significant portion of the market."

If the deal happend afterwards they could have made polls for the backer. They also could have dropped it. Cause if that deals means you can't release to the conditions of GOG (as it was) it was backer related.

"It is retail pricing that necessitates regional pricing." << thats just something you might hear from every big publisher. But honestly there is no reason you need to connect your digital distribution price on the retail price. Instead when digital distribution was introduced all claimed how wonderfull it is for the customer cause it can make products cheaper.

So even i understand where you come from and i kinda think that it's a bad situation , do understand where i come from too.

I'm not angry Larian use different prices on steam. They shall do as everyone does.
I'm angry that D:OS is used as one off the brands which forces GOG to go the same way as Steam. I said it many times now ... that is not what i as a backer wanted to happen when they ask me on kickstarter to help them.

So in all honestly larian was good on every communication ... but now they hide. Why ?
Why is there no official statement?
Why do they just accept that there is a slashback on them being greedy like everyone else in the business?
Why couldn't they just stick with the same model they did with Dragon Comander on GOG (which btw i think everyone was expecting)?
Noone would have cared in any way for it cause noone ever complained that GOG had one price for all regions. Noone on steam ever thought about it.

Last edited by unknown78; 26/02/14 01:13 AM.
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