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Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: ERISS] #517194
12/07/14 07:03 AM
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I think whoever creates a product, be it a game, book, movie, music, etc, has the right to distribute it in any manner they wish. If you don't like the method they chose or the price they are asking, you have the right not to buy it. You certainly have the right to let them know your displeasure and are free to make suggestions to them. You don't have the right to obtain it by means other than they chose to offer it. It's not yours, you didn't create it, leave it alone.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: NoDRMforMe] #518147
13/07/14 09:41 AM
13/07/14 09:41 AM
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At the RPC Germany I was tal?ing to an representative for the "Risen 3" game.

He told me that Risen 3 will come in Germany with NO DRM.

He explained to me that Germans generally hate Steam - but the rest of the world not.
But, since Germany is the primary market for the Risen series, they'll release it there with no DRM whatsoever.

In other countries, he said, releasing games without Steam has become IMPOSSIBLE. Publishers just would outright REFUSE publishing games WITHOT the Steam DRM ... But in Germany, gamers - especially older gamers like me - just outright refuse to buy Steam-based games ...

For any game-producing company, Germany is an highly difficult mareket. It's the ONLY market left IN THE WORLD whewre Adventure games rewally sell ! The rest of the world has completely abandoned this genre which created games like Monkey Island and DOTT.

Germany is an extremewly conservative market as well, I believe. The "no love for Steam" by the German average gamer - especially of the older gamer generations - clearly shows that as well.

So, before you put tarr & feathers over someone who is "demanding" an DRM-free game : Think of other cultures, too ! And other coumntries as well !
And - besides - telecommunication companies to NOT invest in rural areas ! Steam is an towns-only thing ! Because only in towns there is actually enough and cheap !!! bandwidth supporting gigabytes of patch downloads !

Rural areas in Germany are totally detached from the "internet culture" of the towns - simply because no cable / telekom company invests there !
This results in people simply neither having the money nor the bandwisdth of being able to download several gigabytes of patches - or even full games !

If I wasn't living in a town, I wouldn't play DOS, but instead sit there and be happy that I've got the CE - and play other games instead.

Offline games.



Originally Posted By: putzbutt
I think whoever creates a product, be it a game, book, movie, music, etc, has the right to distribute it in any manner they wish. If you don't like the method they chose or the price they are asking, you have the right not to buy it.


If they don't want my money ... well, it's okay for me ...




And, besides,m it is sooooo typical for "modern" game forums that people are fast, astonishingly fast in easily condemning people who don't share their point of view ...

The internet is simply a place where the "freedom of speech" does not exist - because one gets bullied immediately fast after writuing doiwn an opinion others don't share ...

Last edited by AlrikFassbauer; 13/07/14 09:46 AM.

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Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #518205
13/07/14 11:21 AM
13/07/14 11:21 AM
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ERISS Offline
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Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
Germans generally hate Steam - but the rest of the world not.
in Germany, gamers just outright refuse to buy Steam-based games ...

Originally Posted By: putzbutt
I think whoever creates a product has the right to distribute it in any manner they wish. If you don't like the method they chose or the price they are asking, you have the right not to buy it.

If they don't want my money ... well, it's okay for me ...

Hurra for the all White Rose germans! resistants against the Borg assimilation

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: AlrikFassbauer] #518235
13/07/14 12:19 PM
13/07/14 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer

In other countries, he said, releasing games without Steam has become IMPOSSIBLE. Publishers just would outright REFUSE publishing games WITHOT the Steam DRM ... But in Germany, gamers - especially older gamers like me - just outright refuse to buy
Steam-based games ...

Yes we do hehe. I have over 250 games on GOG, and i'll continue to buy any good game aviable there (or elswhere), as long as it is DRM free. I kickstarted D:OS, the new Planescape, Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Shadowrun Returns and many other games which don't require DRM/Steam. So money is not the issue. But if there is no DRM-free version aviable for sale, i will get the DRM free version anyway. When boxed copies were still a thing, i removed the original disc and replaced it with a self-made liberated one.

So long story short, i hate DRM, a lot^^

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: pts] #518729
14/07/14 05:26 AM
14/07/14 05:26 AM
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Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
He explained to me that Germans generally hate Steam - but the rest of the world not.
But, since Germany is the primary market for the Risen series, they'll release it there with no DRM whatsoever.
Risen 2's use of Steamworks met with significant protest and not just from German players (I boycotted it myself until its GOG release). If Piranha Bytes are offering a DRM-free version of Risen 3 at launch, that's progress even if geographically limited.

Germans do seem more sensitive (and clued-up IMHO) about civil liberty and privacy issues (they prefer cash to credit cards for one example) so it's encouraging to see that may apply to DRM also.
Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
...Publishers just would outright REFUSE publishing games WITHOT the Steam DRM ...
For publishers, Steam is a huge benefit - no question. With Steam, publishers can block resale, which despite being legal is apparently worse than unauthorised copying. With Steam, publishers can monitor game installation and usage (how long and when people play, how far they get, which plotlines they follow) in ways no other distribution system can (yes Steam fans, that achievement system where you receive a medal for getting through the first 5 minutes of a game does serve a greater purpose). And with Steam, publishers can set region restrictions on what you can play.

So great for publishers - not so great for end users.
Originally Posted By: AlrikFassbauer
So, before you put tarr & feathers over someone who is "demanding" an DRM-free game : Think of other cultures, too ! And other coumntries as well !
To be fair, the OP deserves criticism for his tone and mention of the p-word - aside from that, I'd be in perfect agreement with his views. However adults should take the time to consider the morality of their decisions, and the moral high ground with DRM would be to boycott and (politely) explain why.
Originally Posted By: pts
Yes we do hehe. I have over 250 games on GOG, and i'll continue to buy any good game aviable there (or elswhere), as long as it is DRM free. I kickstarted D:OS, the new Planescape, Wasteland 2, Project Eternity, Shadowrun Returns...
+1 to this and ditto - though with Shadowrun the launch fiasco (where the public release was Steam-only due to contractual "issues" with Microsoft) had me asking HBS to pass my pledge to the EFF. Now it's on sale (60% off till Tuesday 15 July) at GOG, I might pick up a copy.

Last edited by Stargazer; 14/07/14 05:28 AM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: NoDRMforMe] #518842
14/07/14 08:34 AM
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I actually agree with the OP except for his delivery. I bought the physical collector's copy of DOS and am loving this game FYI. But growing up and playing pc games starting from the 80s, i've grown to appreciate big boxes and the tons of stuff in it. It's such a big bonus for me to have physical items and thick manuals included in the box. Makes me get into the game much easier and makes me feel that I bought the game in such a bargain.

Also I don't like the idea of DRM. While it does prevent piracy, it actually decreases the resale value and overall value of the game since no one can reuse the keys except if trading the whole account. I believe that once you buy a certain product, it would be much better if you can resell it or trade it around. So my collector's edition is not much of a collector's edition since it is not really valued when used.

DRM is not a deterent either since there are also downloadable copies of games that have been cracked. So I guess the best thing for me still is the physical copy CD check.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy [Re: Stargazer] #518960
14/07/14 12:34 PM
14/07/14 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stargazer

Originally Posted By: pts
Shadowrun Returns...
+1 to this and ditto - though with Shadowrun the launch fiasco (where the public release was Steam-only due to contractual "issues" with Microsoft) had me asking HBS to pass my pledge to the EFF. Now it's on sale (60% off till Tuesday 15 July) at GOG, I might pick up a copy.


It's a much improved experience now compared to launch, especially with the dragonfall campaign (the original camaign was ok, but dragonfall is good to great). There are also some very good campaign length mods out there: A Stitch in Time, Jacked Up, The Deep One, From The Shadows Run...

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519065
14/07/14 03:32 PM
14/07/14 03:32 PM
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Originally Posted By: NoDRMforMe

Meanwhile, I have pirated the game.


Scumbag.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519073
14/07/14 03:56 PM
14/07/14 03:56 PM
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Full support to the OP. I also wanted to buy a physical copy, but since it requires steam (which is de facto DRM), I will have to pass. To say I am disappointed (with Larian) would be an understatement.

Last edited by Estrogen; 14/07/14 03:58 PM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519086
14/07/14 04:17 PM
14/07/14 04:17 PM
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Once again, for those who may not be aware, it only requires Steam to install/update the game. The actual game itself does not require Steam to run, assuming that it makes any difference to you.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: Jito463] #519172
14/07/14 06:52 PM
14/07/14 06:52 PM
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NoDRMforMe Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Jito463
Once again, for those who may not be aware, it only requires Steam to install/update the game. The actual game itself does not require Steam to run, assuming that it makes any difference to you.


People keep repeating that, yet you haven't noticed that Steam launches when you launch the game? I don't want the "steamapi.dll" in my folder, I dont want Steam launching at all.

So please, don't say it is not required because it is an outright lie.

It is disgusting how Steam has become the centre of everything, and this is coming from someone who started with the Commodore 16. It is also very dangerous, like everything else in this dystopian future.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519323
14/07/14 10:54 PM
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Originally Posted By: NoDRMforMe
Hi all,
Meanwhile, I have pirated the game. Until Larian release a DRM-free version which includes both a DVD and a manual they shall suffer sales.


You not liking their choice of distribution platforms does not justify piracy in any form. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Your choice.

But theft is theft.

And to your first topic, feel free to fight digital distribution all you want. I would even admire your sticking to your principles if you didn't just publicly announce that you are a thief. But that ship has sailed. Boxed software products are going the way of the dinosaur rather we like it or not. Steam's 75 million users are proof that its a model most people are OK with.

And there is always GOG.com if you don't like Steam's attitude towards its customers.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519360
15/07/14 12:20 AM
15/07/14 12:20 AM
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Originally Posted By: NoDRMforMe
Originally Posted By: Jito463
Once again, for those who may not be aware, it only requires Steam to install/update the game. The actual game itself does not require Steam to run, assuming that it makes any difference to you.


People keep repeating that, yet you haven't noticed that Steam launches when you launch the game? I don't want the "steamapi.dll" in my folder, I dont want Steam launching at all.

So please, don't say it is not required because it is an outright lie.


Funny, I just closed Steam and launched the game, and Steam is still closed. It's not a lie.

Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: Jei] #519636
15/07/14 09:22 AM
15/07/14 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: Jei


You not liking their choice of distribution platforms does not justify piracy in any form. If you don't like it, don't buy it. Your choice.

But theft is theft.

Really?

Let's say two people are hungry, one catches a fish. If the other guy secretly takes it away, it is theft. If he forcefully takes it away, it is piracy. If he creates a copy, it's Jesus (or a copyright violation)... wink


Disclaimer: I kickstarted D:OS and got it legally on GOG. I'm glad i didn't have to choose between DRM-free but illegal and legal but DRM-infested garbage.

Edit: compared to other DRM measures that caused no end of trouble (you had to crack the game you legally bought because starforce didn't like your computer), Steam is quite userfriendly. But a golden cage is still a cage.

Last edited by pts; 15/07/14 10:34 AM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: pts] #519672
15/07/14 10:15 AM
15/07/14 10:15 AM
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Originally Posted By: pts

Really?

Let's say two people are hungry, one catches a fish. If the other secretly takes it away, it is theft. If the other forcefully takes it away, it is piracy.


lolwat?!

if things belong to you, you cant "steal" it back. its yours anyway. your actions are just a result of the thefts misbehaviour.

so all i see, there are 2 options:
1. buy on gog (and may burn it on a cd, create a cover etc)
2. buy on steam

OR dont play it.
downloading an illegal copy is not a proper solution.
if you like the game, support the developer. they deserved it.
a non aviable boxed- or whatever version is not an excuse for piracy in any case.

/my english may be not correct at certain times

Last edited by MelONE; 15/07/14 10:16 AM.

Today I have spotted a spider in my bathroom, so I took a paper towel and carefully burned the town to the ground.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: MelONE] #519684
15/07/14 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted By: MelONE

lolwat?!

if things belong to you, you cant "steal" it back. its yours anyway. your actions are just a result of the thefts misbehaviour.

Hm ok, l'm talking about different options for the guy without fish, not about stealing back and forth. Changed the post to make it easier to understand:

"Let's say two people are hungry, one catches a fish. If the other guy secretly takes it away, it is theft. If he forcefully takes it away, it is piracy. If he creates a copy, it's Jesus (or a copyright violation)... ;)"

Quote:

so all i see, there are 2 options:
1. buy on gog (and may burn it on a cd, create a cover etc)
2. buy on steam
OR dont play it.
downloading an illegal copy is not a proper solution.

why? Who gets hurt, if option 1. is not aviable, and option 2. is no option for you?

Quote:

if you like the game, support the developer. they deserved it.

If they allow me to do so, like Larian does, i do. If they don't, i won't.

Last edited by pts; 15/07/14 10:35 AM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519729
15/07/14 12:02 PM
15/07/14 12:02 PM
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I just made this account to reply to this thread. The amount of idiocy in this thread is staggering! If you want a DRM free game then there is GoG but to blame the developer (i.e, not having a physical copy) for you pirating the game is just absurd.

OP is an idiot and a thief! Because people like YOU steal games, we get crap like this. It's literally your fault, you have done NOTHING except reassure developers that steps like this needed to be taken to protect their products. And here you are, complaining about said precautions. What next, are you gonna send them a box with your crap in it and expect them to pay shipping too? Gonna go to a grocery store and steal a pork tenderloin just to TRY it?

YOURE A GAME PIRATE, A THIEF, A SCAM ARTIST, AND YOU DONT REALIZE THAT YOU WERE STEALING. YOURE UPSET WE HAVE A SECURITY SYSTEM TO PROTECT OURSELVES.

Last edited by L0ngshot; 15/07/14 12:03 PM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: NoDRMforMe] #519805
15/07/14 02:02 PM
15/07/14 02:02 PM
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The stupidity in this thread is astonishing. No, your piracy isn't justified and it does not make you morally superior. And lol at the steam hate, you can literally uninstall steam after downloading the game and it will still work in case you want that genuine 20th century experience or whatever.

e; it's kinda funny that all 'hardcore' games that moves to steam gets these kind of threads (I remember them from the civfanatics and paradox forums in particular) but in the end it always turns out that the people bitching are an irrelevant minority.

Last edited by Aetherna; 15/07/14 02:08 PM.
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: pts] #519829
15/07/14 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted By: pts

Hm ok, l'm talking about different options for the guy without fish, not about stealing back and forth. Changed the post to make it easier to understand:

"Let's say two people are hungry, one catches a fish. If the other guy secretly takes it away, it is theft. If he forcefully takes it away, it is piracy. If he creates a copy, it's Jesus (or a copyright violation)... ;)"

so all i see, there are 2 options:
1. buy on gog (and may burn it on a cd, create a cover etc)
2. buy on steam
OR dont play it.
downloading an illegal copy is not a proper solution.

why? Who gets hurt, if option 1. is not aviable, and option 2. is no option for you?

Quote:

if you like the game, support the developer. they deserved it.

If they allow me to do so, like Larian does, i do. If they don't, i won't.


On the topic if your completely screwy analogy.... Learn to friggin fish for yourself !

How dare you ask who get's hurt, the employees of Larian are getting hurt by idiots like you. Larian sunk everything into this game, basically going for broke. You are taking sales from them which is used to pay their salary which in turn feeds, clothes, and provides a roof for their families.
Where the hell do you think the money they earn in salary comes from you ignoramus.

Personally I hope we read about you on the darwin awards because people like you need to be removed from the genepool.


WeresheepVampire of Original Sin
WoOS - http://weresheep.net/doku.php
Re: Want a PC DVD version without Steam, or won't buy. [Re: Von_Rotten] #519899
15/07/14 04:26 PM
15/07/14 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted By: Von_Rotten
Originally Posted By: LordCrash

I've pirated games myself in my youth like probably 95% or all gamers.


Speak for yourself please, not everyone else.

Every single person in my group of gaming friends (quite a few) has pirated a PC game at some point, including myself.

I don't pirate games anymore, but it was a 'stage' I guess; where I didn't make the connection between pirating and hurting the devs.

People grow, and become better.

Just like my book of spells in D:OS, although I still get my butt kicked often!

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