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Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode #523479
19/07/14 11:48 AM
19/07/14 11:48 AM
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awaken471 Offline OP
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Has anyone tried it yet? Is it doable? It's kind of boring to micromanage and control 4 characters alone...

If you also have any tips I would appreciate very much! smile

Thanks in advance!

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523512
19/07/14 01:08 PM
19/07/14 01:08 PM
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Isiil Offline
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It's possible, but your strategies have to be top notch other wise an single accidental mistake would wipe you out.

I would probably attack this with an aero/hydro mage and a str/pyro battlemage (sword and shield) to have something of a well rounded duo. or maybe a ranger instead of the battlemage...it really depends

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523646
19/07/14 05:55 PM
19/07/14 05:55 PM
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Soltaro Offline
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Two Lonewolf/Glass Cannon rangers is fun. Gotta use the terrain (like corners) and distance to your advantage.

At the moment I personally run the following combo:

- 2h Berzekerer.
Lone Wolf & Glass Cannon. Boost speed and enough Con for max AP.
This guy is the main damage dealer while the secondary character is utility:

- Lone Wolf Enchanter.
For Wildfire & Oath buffs as well as heals, teleport and other utility. (She also has crafting and blacksmithing.)
Max speed, low int (she doesn't need it for damage) and no Glass Cannon either (without damage she doesn't need *that* many AP per turn)


For roleplaying purposes I call them The Hound and Arya. smile

The warrior starts a bit slow but becomes a beast quite early if you support and build him properly. (Use picture of health as your 2nd talent and boost Man-at-Arms to 5) For the earliest levels it also helps to pick Wizard for the fire staff and the oil spell.



I agree that 4 characters is a bit too much micromanage. I rather have 2 stronger characters and the Lone Wolf health bonus really helps cancel out the Hard difficulty health penalty (-40% compared to Normal).

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523741
19/07/14 08:49 PM
19/07/14 08:49 PM
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AndyWiltshireNZ Offline
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I ran a similar setup, 2 lone wolf / glass cannons;

A Two Handed - Man at Arms - Fighter with full elemental resistances - Buffed by a full magic school wizard using haste, fortify, oath - then setting everything on fire to heal the warrior

Felt pretty overpowered all the way through the game, a fully buffed two hander is deadly.

Trying a dual Lonewolf / glass cannon Ranger playthrough now... I much prefer just focusing on 2 characters as well.

Last edited by AndyWiltshireNZ; 19/07/14 08:51 PM.
Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523839
20/07/14 12:05 AM
20/07/14 12:05 AM
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awaken471 Offline OP
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Nice names Hound and Arya XD

Don't you get overloaded with status such as freeze/slow/knockdown and stuff like that?

Either way I'll try that! Glad they implemented this Lone Wolf thing, four is indeed a lot

I've had a hunter but he seemed to miss attacks A LOT, was I doing something wrong?

Last edited by awaken471; 20/07/14 12:08 AM.
Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523848
20/07/14 12:49 AM
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Soltaro Offline
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Since both chars are Lone Wolf you can invest quite a few points into Bodybuilding and Willpower early on.
As long as the 2h berzeker runs free it's all good, and the support mage can help him get free. Wildfire if he's frozen, or just oil him and a nearby enemy to set them both on fire (and unfreeze).
You can get knockdown immunity later on. Anti-fear & charm from traits and stun immunity from lightning shield, etc...
Or CC their CCer first. Plenty of counters overall.

Perception helps a lot to reduce long range misses. A few points is pretty vital. As well as Bless or the +30 hit stance.

Oh and as far as Lone Wolf & Glass Cannon go, I made a comparison of the two talents and how they interact with eachother on medium and hard.

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #523885
20/07/14 02:57 AM
20/07/14 02:57 AM
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Incendax Offline
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2 Handed Berserker with Aerotheurge(Stun Immunity) and Man-At-Arms is the most powerful character in the game.

Combine that with a utility mage who can cover the floor in water and hit it with a shock staff, and you can permanently stun 3-5 enemies every single battle.

Last edited by Incendax; 20/07/14 02:58 AM.
Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #524636
21/07/14 09:03 AM
21/07/14 09:03 AM
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MelONE Offline
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we are a 2 player coop party, mage and knight, both lone wolf + glass cannon and stun immunity,
works perfectly fine.


Today I have spotted a spider in my bathroom, so I took a paper towel and carefully burned the town to the ground.
Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #524820
21/07/14 03:33 PM
21/07/14 03:33 PM
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RetroSpective Offline
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Yeah not only is it possible but pretty easy as you can dual class Man at arms to get the bonus ress. and heal yourself with that element (you can also get leech) , I think that with some practice you can even solo this game (tho it might be kinda annoying + you can't do some of the puzzles).

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525202
22/07/14 06:51 AM
22/07/14 06:51 AM
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paciokino Offline
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Any tips for 2 rangers on hard with lone wolf?

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525220
22/07/14 08:00 AM
22/07/14 08:00 AM
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Soltaro Offline
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Give them both Midnight Oil (Geo) and the Bully talent. Easy access to +50% damage for all and reduces their AP and movement speed.
It can sometimes be annoying if it catches fire and creates smoke though, since you can't shoot them in smoke cover. (ie: it's better to use on their melee)

Save your talent point at 3 to use at lvl 5 (Glass Cannon). Boost Marksman to lvl 5 asap as well. You need the Quickdraw talent next (auto attacks only 3 AP then)

Learn the terrain and don't be afraid to run away. Proper positioning is key. Find better spots to engage instead of fighting on the enemies turf. Funnel them into right spots around corners, or cut of someone's path with fire/slow so it takes him longer to catch up while you fight the other enemies first.

There are a lot of options with attributes. You need decent Dex of course though more for requirements, I'd focus more on bringing up Speed to get max AP. And when fighting long range you need some Perception (increases hit by a lot).

If you want to cast some buff spells you need Intel as well, Wildfire is amazing, as well as Bless, the problem is that that you need around 7-8 Intel to have a 100% chance to cast it. Any lower and it's pretty annoying to miss during battle. However you'll always end up with some Int on your gear so you don't want to overdo putting full attribute points into Intelligence either..

It's a little tricky to find a perfect balance between min-maxing and "gameplay enjoyment" here. The same applies to Perception as well. You don't need 15 Perception (for the hit chance at least) but you can't leave it at 5 either. Lategame gear plays a big factor into the optimized equation.
Ranger is one of the few multi classes that really needs to spread attributes thin, while still gaining enough from it to benefit.

All in all, your combat revolves more on tactics with 2 Lone-Wolf Rangers. Which can be quite a lot of fun! You know... compared to simply parking your immortal 2h warrior next to enemies. wink

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: Soltaro] #525234
22/07/14 09:23 AM
22/07/14 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted By: Soltaro
Give them both Midnight Oil (Geo) and the Bully talent.
I actually recommend giving both of them Hydro over Geo for a Ranger.

Right at the start of the game you get Rain which you can stun people with using the first lightning bow you find. 100% hit chance from stunned enemies is better than slowed enemies. Slow Current and eventually Mass Slow can trigger Bully for you. Ice Elementals and Ice Walls are superior for creating terrain that can control the enemy and knock them down, which also triggers Bully. Later in the game you get Hail which can prep an entire battlefield with ice before you even start a fight. You have a handy constitution booster which can give you a higher maximum AP to combine with Glass Cannon. You have access to healing spells, and a very solid cure spell, and Freezing Touch is just great all around.

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525243
22/07/14 09:59 AM
22/07/14 09:59 AM
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Soltaro Offline
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Yeah Hydro is great as well but you'll want a point or two in most magic trees for the buffs anyway.

Lvl 1 Fire for Wildfire (lvl 2 for the +2 perception boost buff: Burn my Eyes)
For max range sniping you might want Farseer (+5m range buff in Aerotheurge). Lvl 2 for the Become Air buff

Rain with an electric bow is great. As well as midnight Oil with a fire bow. Personally, I wouldn't want to go without Bless anyway (Geo +30% hit buff). So 1 point in Geo is never a waste.

For lategame, once you've got the Elemental Ranger talent you can switch over to rain (To do water damage when they stand in water) but that also means that if you want to mass shock; you probably have to get rank 5 Air and pick the lightning immune talent (or use shields) to protect yourself from shocks.
It's a very strong combination, probably strongest in terms of damage for a ranger lategame, but it's pretty skill point intense. Plus you get Elemental Ranger pretty late.

Early game I think Oil is easier to use, cheap to cast and doesn't depend on a bow much. Hell you can throw candles into the oil if you want too :p
It's mostly the +50% damage boost from Bully that you want. The debuff is just extra on top. And compared with Slow Current the Oil is 1 Ap cheaper and has AoE, plus with it you can create bottlenecks that the enemy warriors try to avoid (or don't move at all).

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525291
22/07/14 12:51 PM
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Should i give 1 ranger man at arms with picture, weather and thick so i can park him in front while i sneak shot with the other one (maybe with stench)? both with scoundrel for extra charm? bless, wildfire and oath is a must, what about blind from witchcraft...does it stick?

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525318
22/07/14 01:57 PM
22/07/14 01:57 PM
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Soltaro Offline
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As much as I love the Man-at-Arms talents or the concept of a battlemage, I don't think a "battleranger" is all that great or even necessary.

The reason being twofold:
1) It doesn't synergize with the playstyle of shooting from afar. At least a mage has a couple close range (3 meter) spells and AoE. ie: it gets better when you are in range. Rangers on the other hand.. they can -and thus should- just keep a distance and use their cheap 3 AP per arrow auto shot.

2) The other reason being is that you really already spread out your points quite thin as a Ranger. You've got 5 necessary talents: LoneWolf/Bully/GlassCannon/Quickdraw/ElementalRanger (though you could argue skipping the last one) which leaves only 2 left.
Not that many other talents are necessary or boost the Ranger's playstyle IMO. I'd probably pick "Swift Footed" (+20% movement) so you are even more mobile and can always win a fight by: "shoot arrows -> retreat to max firing distance". Ranger is unique in that it has the longest range. (ab)use your strengths I'd say. It would be quite (but fun) cheese in PvP. smile
The other 1-2 talents left are probably best swapped for 2 Attribute points (each) with the special End of Time vendor. Since, as aforementioned, you are kinda using those points a lot for Dex/Int/Speed and Perception.

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525322
22/07/14 02:14 PM
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Incendax Offline
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Soltaro is correct. There is almost no synergy between Expert Marksman and Man-At-Arms. You need a weapon equipped to use most Man-At-Arms abilities and swapping weapons takes 2AP.

The only possible exception might be swapping to a melee weapon, using Rage right before a fight, then swapping back to a bow. The Bow DOES GET THE DAMAGE BONUS from Rage... but you need Strength 10 just to have a 100% chance of Rage working, so blaaaah to that.

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525361
22/07/14 04:21 PM
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Soltaro Offline
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I was not aware of rage working on ranged weapons. Does it for spells too? smile

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: Soltaro] #525379
22/07/14 05:26 PM
22/07/14 05:26 PM
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Incendax Offline
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Originally Posted By: Soltaro
I was not aware of rage working on ranged weapons. Does it for spells too? smile

Rage DOES work with ranged weapons, but you must have a melee weapon equipped to use it.
Bows and Crossbows do not qualify so you have to weapon swap back and forth to do it.

Staves absolutely DO qualify as melee wepaons and Rage DOES work with Mage spells.
I found this out the fun way when my Mage bought up Man-At-Arms 5 for the Magic Resistance.
Rage + Pyromancy generates some outrageous damage. laugh

Last edited by Incendax; 22/07/14 05:27 PM.
Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525415
22/07/14 07:00 PM
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I've only done dual lone wolf so far.

It's definitely doable. So far, without abusing sneak at least, str stacked warrior + int stacked mage w/glass cannon on both has been the easiest. It's also got some fun/amusing synergy. Mage can make up for warrior's mobility by hasting, snaring enemies, teleporting them towards the warrior, or in some cases actually dropping the warrior into groups of enemies.

Dual mage is also fun, but mages have annoyingly weak damage that makes fights drag on long after you've essentially already won them.

Archer/Scoundrel right now seems too broken now to be enjoyable since sneak is such a big part of the play style but the AI just doesn't do anything about stealthed enemies.

Re: Double Lone-Wolf in Hard mode [Re: awaken471] #525636
23/07/14 06:34 AM
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Lone Wolf + Glass Cannon I found abit of an overkill, you don't really need speed, but need tons of constitution just to hold all your AP

Heck, I have trouble with just normal Glass Cannon holding all my AP in

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