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At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. #524319
20/07/14 09:52 PM
20/07/14 09:52 PM
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Arsene Lupin Offline OP
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Maybe there's something amazing coming my way in the last 20% of Original Sin, but so far--even though I've been loving the game--it just doesn't feel like a Divinity game to me.

What made Divine Divinity an appealing setting to me was that it basically took this idea of the "Seven races" and went with it, without shoehorning any one race into a "inherently evil" role. And I just loved the Lizards and Imps--and always wanted to see more of both than the tiny windows we saw in DD.

But then came Divinity II and it was All Humans, And Only Humans.

And now Original Sin looks to be making the same error. There are only two imps in the game so far--what Orcs are in the game are uniformly hostile. There are zero Lizards. There are zero Elves. There are zero Dwarves.

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #524338
20/07/14 10:24 PM
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I would suggest some kind of genocide, but this is a prequal. smirk


CPU: i7-4930k, Gfx: EVGA 950, RAM: 16GB DDR3-2133 (quad channel), OS: Arch Linux
Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #524361
20/07/14 10:56 PM
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There's one elf, and at least three friendly orcs/goblins. That aside, I do agree that more diversity would have been nice.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #524376
20/07/14 11:13 PM
20/07/14 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.


Two words: budget constraints.


WOOS
Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #524377
20/07/14 11:17 PM
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well 2 friendly orcs, i put the mayors one to sleep after grabbing johan...only to realize i also accidentally killed the lady looking for her brother...

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: LordCrash] #525076
22/07/14 12:44 AM
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Arsene Lupin Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash
Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.


Two words: budget constraints.


I don't buy that for a second. They ended up having WAY more money to develop DOS than they thought they'd have, and they did find some time to create a unique creature model for Kirill.

They already have the models for Imps and Orcs in the game, they just don't use them for much of anything. An Elf model would literally require less than 1 minute of fiddling with human model geometry. Same with Dwarves--the basic human model could be repurposed very easily.

The only race that might take more than an hour to create a template for would be the Lizards.

But even then, they've still got high-quality 3D models of all 7 races working with the same engine as DOS from Dragon Commander. IT's just a matter of simplifying the geometry--and most 3D drawing tools I've seen have functions to do that automatically.

....

This isn't a matter of Larian not having the time to add diversity, or not having the budget--it's a matter of them consciously choosing NOT to have any species diversity.

Hell, they don't even bother to mention half of the races in dialog/lore.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525087
22/07/14 12:59 AM
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This game deals with a very small area of the world from what I can tell - One or two major cities and a handful of towns all in the same general area. Maybe the races just don't generally enjoy living together? They didn't seem to get along that well in D:DC after all. Rivellon doesn't seem like its nations are great melting pots of social justice and equality, so I'm not really surprised by the all-human with a few other races aspect.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525119
22/07/14 02:33 AM
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Spoilers below due to referring to areas in the game which are not immediately available.
Click to reveal..

I kind of agree with this. There were definitely opportunities to use other races where it would have made more sense than purely humans.

I would have kept Cyseal pretty much exactly as it is. It's a very human area.

I would have made Silverglen a relatively even mix of humans and dwarves. Dwarven miners make a lot of sense, after all. Brandon would have been a Dwarf, as would Bjorn, the smith whom you rescue if you give a Blood Stone to Alfie. Natia would still be human, however, as would Lawrence; if Lawrence ends up a potential victim of mob justice, dwarf vs human racism could come up in a different way than in the Elf-Orc Blood Feud from earlier.

This would also mean more diversity in the various cultists you fight. A good number of dwarves would be "true believers" and thus you'd see a great many in robes at various stages of the game. Same uniform as the humans, same core beliefs and fervent devotion, just a different race joining in. The geomancer from Sacred Stone might even be a dwarf herself.

In terms of elves, I'd only add one living one, but I'd refer to a bunch of dead ones. Hunter's Edge would be described as a relatively even mix of elves and humans before its downfall, with "wood elf" culture being a highlight of the town's past. Madora would view the situation romantically, as she loved the elves she lived with for their emphasis on the natural over artifice (and, to Madora, all artifice is Source-related somehow). The (formerly human) undead merchant you meet at the town gates, however, would give a less romantic assessment when queried. Then as an extra touch, instead of Paintings of a Man, sometimes you'd steal Paintings of an Elf (perhaps worth slightly more). However, since Hunter's Edge got massacred, the only additional elf you'd actually meet in the game would be the barman at the inn in Hunter's Edge, who as far as he knows is the last elf alive on the continent.

Orcs are indeed mostly antagonistic in the game, but it's explained by the lore. The All-Mother wields a huge amount of political power over the orcs, and thus the orcs have gone down a twisted path overall. This doesn't make them inherently bad (Victoria), but they're a scary race. As they should be.

I feel imps are covered in enough detail and need nothing further. Same with lizardmen; just because they're part of the setting doesn't mean we ever need to see one.

Last edited by ScrotieMcB; 22/07/14 02:35 AM.
Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525121
22/07/14 02:36 AM
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k wateva


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Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525142
22/07/14 03:32 AM
22/07/14 03:32 AM
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Demonic Offline
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash
Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.


Two words: budget constraints.


No, that's not true seeing as you do encounter several races in the game.

Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin
Maybe there's something amazing coming my way in the last 20% of Original Sin, but so far--even though I've been loving the game--it just doesn't feel like a Divinity game to me.

What made Divine Divinity an appealing setting to me was that it basically took this idea of the "Seven races" and went with it, without shoehorning any one race into a "inherently evil" role. And I just loved the Lizards and Imps--and always wanted to see more of both than the tiny windows we saw in DD.

But then came Divinity II and it was All Humans, And Only Humans.

And now Original Sin looks to be making the same error. There are only two imps in the game so far--what Orcs are in the game are uniformly hostile. There are zero Lizards. There are zero Elves. There are zero Dwarves.

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.


There are actually several alive Imps in the game. The rest you encounter are dead in Hiberheim and you see a few corpses of Imps also in the Lucella academy for Immaculates.

There are plenty of orcs and just like in Divine Divinity, most are hostile towards you. Original Sin actually has more friendly orcs (I think there's around three you can actually talk to) whereas DD only had two.

The goblins are back again and there is an elf you can encounter. The only races missing are the lizardmen and dwarves but I believe Divine Divinity made it clear that these three later races were already dwindling at that point. Most of the elves you meet in DD are in secluded places and there were only a few lizardmen to meet. By Divinity 2 (which is only a few centuries later), you can find a book in a cave near the starting village which explains how there were some elves who used that particular cave as their last refuge and that no one has ever seen an elf since, so much so, that the world now believes them extinct (although cut content from Divinity 2 would have featured them in some forest so based on that, it's likely that they've gone into hiding more which is why no human has seen them for centuries)

Even if the dwarves weren't dwindling, they lived in the mountains as shown in DD and you encountered very few in the human towns so not encountering them in Original Sin or Divinity 2 could easily be explained from a lore perceptive.

I highly doubt any of this is due to budget constraints seeing as Larian has made so many enemy variety. I guess they just didn't see fit to throw in an entire town dedicated to dwarves or elves just for the sake of it. These places had meaning to them in the first game.

Dragon Commander featured all the seven races though.

Last edited by Demonic; 22/07/14 03:37 AM.
Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525165
22/07/14 04:30 AM
22/07/14 04:30 AM
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One word for ya : xpansions.

Like wow, one expansion per continent, in this case one expansion per each race home... You heard it here first...

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525223
22/07/14 08:32 AM
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We have skeletons and zombies! There's a melee skeleton, a ranged skeleton, a skeleton mage, a big skeleton, a small skeleton...

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: fashasha] #525250
22/07/14 10:43 AM
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Originally Posted By: fashasha
We have skeletons and zombies! There's a melee skeleton, a ranged skeleton, a skeleton mage, a big skeleton, a small skeleton...

You just revealed the combination of enemies in every encounter in the Cyseal area...

This was actually the thing that popped into my mind when I read the title; how every encounter seems to be the same.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #525257
22/07/14 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin
An Elf model would literally require less than 1 minute of fiddling with human model geometry.
This is only true if you don't mind it looking like crap.

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Singbird] #525290
22/07/14 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Singbird
Originally Posted By: fashasha
We have skeletons and zombies! There's a melee skeleton, a ranged skeleton, a skeleton mage, a big skeleton, a small skeleton...

You just revealed the combination of enemies in every encounter in the Cyseal area...

This was actually the thing that popped into my mind when I read the title; how every encounter seems to be the same.


You have humans and orcs as well, and the environment smile

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: LordCrash] #525421
22/07/14 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash
Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin

So... what gives? Why the homogeneity? It makes Rivellon a far less interesting world to explore, IMHO.


Two words: budget constraints.

This.

Just wait for the sequel to D:OS @OP, it will have a bigger budget. A much bigger budget. laugh

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: ScrotieMcB] #525575
23/07/14 03:21 AM
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Originally Posted By: ScrotieMcB
Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin
An Elf model would literally require less than 1 minute of fiddling with human model geometry.
This is only true if you don't mind it looking like crap.

Well, that and if you're a completely unskilled individual making uneducated assumptions about what it actually takes to do someone else's job ...

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Nilt] #525607
23/07/14 05:03 AM
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Originally Posted By: Nilt
Originally Posted By: ScrotieMcB
Originally Posted By: Arsene Lupin
An Elf model would literally require less than 1 minute of fiddling with human model geometry.
This is only true if you don't mind it looking like crap.

Well, that and if you're a completely unskilled individual making uneducated assumptions about what it actually takes to do someone else's job ...


Lol yeah modeling is not the hard part but rigging and animation require a totally different level of work

Last edited by Sinthesizer; 23/07/14 05:05 AM.
Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Arsene Lupin] #526237
23/07/14 11:56 PM
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Wait... wasn't the Elf guy still just an old dude like in Beta... I don't recall seeing any differences.

Also, there are already dozens of unique orcs to talk to in Hunter's Edge alone... (which is less than 80% in)... so... what?
The Lizards and Dwarves get mentioned, I recall reading about them ingame already. Can't recall where though...

Re: At 80%: disappointed with DOS' lack of DIVERSITY. [Re: Hassat Hunter] #527470
25/07/14 04:43 PM
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Arsene Lupin Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Hassat Hunter
Wait... wasn't the Elf guy still just an old dude like in Beta... I don't recall seeing any differences.

Also, there are already dozens of unique orcs to talk to in Hunter's Edge alone... (which is less than 80% in)... so... what?
The Lizards and Dwarves get mentioned, I recall reading about them ingame already. Can't recall where though...


I'm not in Hunter's Edge yet. Basing 80% by party level. I'm at level 16, people beat the game at level 20, therefore approximately 80% through.

Anyway, yeah: I forgot about that one elf.

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