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#538628 07/08/14 10:12 AM
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iru Offline OP
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As many players have now played through the game I thought it could be fun to start a challenge where we restrict ourselves in our choices to force us to find new tactics.

Feel free to comment about the rule set or modify it further yourself. And please to tell us tales of your adventure if you try the challenge!


Challenge level: Normal mode or Hard mode


Role and skill restrictions:
PC characters shall be a dex based archer and a dex based dagger user.
PC characters may use any Mat-at-arms, Scoundrel and Expert Marksman skills they want, but do note the talent restrictments below.
PC characters may not learn any spells except for Bless, Immune to Poisoning and Fortitude (Geomancer)
Reasoning: Most builds seem to focus on 2-handed warriors and mages.

Companions:
May only bring one companion mage, who must comply to the spell list below.
Companions may not use Two-handed Str weapons.
Companions may not use bow.
Reasoning: This challenge is about moving away from the seemingly common approaches.Let's make this a personal decision instead.

Disallowed crafting:
Any resistance enchantments (essences, rubies), Shield +Block enchantment
Reasoning: This stops 100%+ 4 elemental resistances and the ridiculously high block rate that can be achieved through bettering the shield.

Disallowed use of Sneak in combat:
Sneak may only be used Out of Combat (including combat start) or in combination with Walk in Shadows.
Reasoning: This removes the possibility of ending each turn with full party sneak.

Disallowed use of telekinesis:
You may not abuse telekinesis as a combat tool.

Disallowed Talents:
Normal mode: Lone Wolf, Zombie, Weather the Storm, Leech, Glass Cannon
Hard mode:Lone Wolf, Zombie, Weather the Storm, Leech, Glass Cannon OR Picture of Health

Reasoning: Without Lone Wolf, Picture of Health, Weather the Storm, resistance enchants and disallowing most of the magic the glass cannon will indeed suffer properly from it's low vitality in hard mode and be more balanced. If you rather have the Health bonus of Picture of Health you may choose that talent but will then be restricted from using Glass Cannon.

Allowed spells for mage companion:
Pyrokinetic:
Flare, Burning Touch, Wildfire, Immune to Freezing, Purifying Fire, Burn My Eyes, Self-Immolation

Hydrosophist:
Ice Shard, Minor Heal, Slow Current, Water of Life, Rain, Immune to burning, Cleansing Water

Aerotheurge:
Headvice, Farseer, Become Air, Immune to Electrified, Tornado

Geomancer:
Bless, Immune to Poisoning, Fortify, Magical Poison Dart, Blessed Earth

Witchcraft:
Oath of Desecration, Enfeebling Touch, Bloodletting, Malediction, Destroy Summon

Reasoning: No summons and very limited crowd control. Still useful for buffing or dealing moderate magical damage.

Last edited by iru; 07/08/14 12:33 PM.
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I'm playing something similar to this, with a few exceptions
1. No magic on anybody, period. Scrolls still allowed. I'm using Madora as a 2-h warrior, instead of a mage.
2. My Scoundrel main character has used sneak defensively in combat (he lacks Guerilla). None of my other characters sneak in combat.

I don't really see why you would ban 2-handers, but NOT ban mages. I'd trade Madora for someone who can cast heals and buffs and elemental spells in a hearbeat, if I weren't purposefully limiting myself.

No idea why you would ban bows at all.

Glass Cannon is ridiculously powerful, even without combining it with any other talents (or the elemental shield spells). I would ban it outright.

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Originally Posted by dirigible
I don't really see why you would ban 2-handers, but NOT ban mages. I'd trade Madora for someone who can cast heals and buffs and elemental spells in a hearbeat, if I weren't purposefully limiting myself.

No idea why you would ban bows at all.

Glass Cannon is ridiculously powerful, even without combining it with any other talents (or the elemental shield spells). I would ban it outright.


I was merely thinking of trying to change the standard routines around a bit. That's why I thought no 2-handers would be part of it. I can see removing that from the challenge and make that personal choice.
The allowing of one mage without any AOE damage, Control or summon spells or higher level spells at all is to have some

The ban on bows for companions was mostly to reduce the amount of characters that can use the special (specifically charm/stun) Arrows.

Regarding the use of Glass Cannon I haven't tried it without the synergies of Control, summons and Health increasing skills, if it is still as strong as you say I can see removing it from the list of allowed skills.

Last edited by iru; 07/08/14 11:12 AM.
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Originally Posted by iru
Regarding the use of Glass Cannon I haven't tried it without the synergies of Control, summons and Health increasing skills, if it is still as strong as you say I can see removing it from the list of allowed skills.


Quick numbers test
On hard, at level 21

A Glass Cannon character with 13 Constitution (and no other stat allocation) will have
415 HP, 7 starting AP, 12 recovery AP, 20 max AP
A NON Glass Cannon character with 13 Speed (and no other stat allocation) will have
435 HP, 11 starting AP, 10 recovery AP, 12 max AP

The Glass Cannon Character is considerably better off, AP-wise. Their first turn is weaker, but they gain AP faster and their cap is much higher. Their HP is about the same. Any +Constitution gear will be much less effective on them, however. If you aren't planning on stacking Constitution on them anyway, then this won't make much of a difference.

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iru Offline OP
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Just above 400HP is very low at level 21 though, isn't it?

How would a NON Glass Cannon character with CON 9, SPD 9 and PoH +25% Health boost compare?

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level 21, 9 Con, 9 Speed, 5 Man-At-Arms, Picture of Health
1049 HP
9 starting AP, 8 recovery AP, 16 maximum AP

About 250% the HP, about 66% of the AP, requires 5 ranks in Man-At-Arms. The downside is that it wouldn't work on anything but a Warrior.

For comparison, though
Level 21, 9 Con, 9 Speed
786 HP
9 starting AP, 8 recovery AP, 16 maximum AP

Compared to the Glass Cannon character, it's an 89% increase in HP. The Glass Cannon character has 50% more AP.

I suppose that on Hard, Glass Cannon isn't miles better. But I place a lot of value on AP. Being able to cast a whole 'nother spell, run that much farther, or attack once more can be hugely important.

Last edited by dirigible; 07/08/14 12:02 PM.
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I made some changes according to your suggestions, including outright disallowing glass cannon for normal mode. I think Glass Cannon will be a proper risk-reward situation in hard mode when you don't have the +Health talents to rely on. I know that at level 15 I've been hit for more than 415hp in a turn more than once and that's on a 50+% all resist, full plate armor warrior.

We're talking -75% vs -25% Health, meaning you lose 2/3 of your Health which can't properly be countered as seen in the comparisons.


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