Larian Studios Forums Divinity - Original Sin Divinity - Original Sin - General Game sites attempting to blackmail Larian?

Hey, I don't know if there was a proper thread about this, but...

http://orogion.deviantart.com/journal/Save-the-Boob-plate-380891149

Reading this made me really upset, mainly about 2 things:

1. Gaming sites daring to be this plain rude & idiotic.
2. Larian falling to their pressure.



As a backer of the game, I believe I have a right to know which sites were responsible for these threats.
I do NOT want other developers to feel constrained and be forced to self-censor their games just to appease some bullies.

So what was it about the last few thousand times this was brought up that wasn't 'proper'?

Since the artist's original description of the objection to the artwork was neither complete or accurate, his assessment of the reasons for the change are equally suspect.
Later in the blog he concedes that the original artwork was not an accurate representation of the game, which in and of itself is reason enough to change.

The only 'threat' I know of is one tiny site saying they didn't want to review the game if it meant displaying the original artwork. There may have been more, but I highly doubt there were any with more that 2 people involved in the site, or that had any significant traffic.

Every other aspect of the game was changed or influenced in some way based on feedback: story, quests, dialog, character design, world design, etc. Yet somehow cover art is sacred and is the only thing that must never, ever, ever be changed or it is censorship? Why is that, exactly?

It's not the coverart aspect that bothers me, it's the blacklisting threat.
This is NOT a thing I support in any way, shape, or form.

If they can bully Larian that way, think how they can bully smaller devs.
Think how they may take it further if they don't get their wishes next.

These kinds of sites should be named and shamed publicly.

Lots of gaming sites choose not to review many games for different reasons. Contacting a developer with the reason, or replying to an offer of review codes, does not constitute a blacklisting threat.
Someone gave away a couple D:OS keys after release on twitter, after they offered them to several sites/people and didn't get any takers. Is not being interested in the game, or not having time to do a proper review, etc, any different than being somewhat interested in the game but uncomfortable with some aspect of the content?

When it comes to a such a petty thing as the game's cover art, yes. Most definitely.

There's no point in trying to pretty things up, so I'll make it as clear as possible:

If a site said something akin to "Change your coverart or we won't cover your game" (A game I put 70$ on out of good faith in the company), I'd like to know what site it was, so I won't visit it in the future.
All there is to it. I really don't care about the rest of the details.

I honestly couldn't agree with Jack Dandy more. This insane trend needs to die, and the first step is gaming companies speaking up, instead of just accepting it.

It's not lone nutjobs writing hatemail anymore, it's an organized movement of counter-cultural bullies.

There are no professional sites with any significant viewership that excludes games they cover based on cover art. If there were, it would effect many more games than D:OS, and people would react to the lack of coverage and go elsewhere for reviews.

What difference does it make if some single person armature/hobby site or Youtube channel would not cover a game based on the cover art?
Do you also want a list of anyone who said they were sick of fantasy setting RPGs, and didn't want to review the game if it had orcs and undead in it?

Checking for gameplay video of some ARPG in a bundle awhile ago, I happened on a review from a Christian person specifically targeting Christian players; she was playing a character in almost a bikini armour design, and made note of that (saying the other character classes had realistic armour) and commented on other character design. She also noted the lack of profanity in the game, and described the general level of violence and gore as being accurately represented in the section of the game being shown. Even with a niche review site, a professional reviewer will cover a game they think will interest their audience, and point out things that may be issues for them.


Larian did not have a lot to say about this during the kickstarter, and have not commented since then. Doing so now about this would be very petty and unprofessional.

If it was a "single person armature/hobby site or Youtube channel", I have a feeling Larian wouldn't give a damn about it, and would leave the art as it were.

I don't mind the new art - the changes were minimal.
(Believe it or not, but I would be as upset if the original art was the current one, and the new one would be with the bikini.)


What I DO care about is that somebody threatened Larian, and that they were powerful\influential enough to make Larian comply.
All the other details are meaningless and irrelevant.

Who sent these threats?

You are assuming that that was the only issue with the cover art, and a significant factor in the decision to change it. There were other reasons to change the cover art, which were sufficient in and of themselves to do so, completely discounting any threats that may have been made.

It still isn't a threat to give a reason to not review a game, though. There's lots of reasons and it happens all the time.

Did you miss the huge repeat of this topic on Steam when someone commented that D:OS was using the original artwork for the Steam winter sale? Did all these powerful and influential people who 'forced' the change suddenly disappear? The details for the sale were set before the awards and nominations started coming in.
There were valid reasons to change the cover art during the kickstarter, some of which are not as applicable now given the difference in target audience (kickstarter at the time being fairly US centric) and the much higher availability of game information.

Talk about petty topics...much as I don't judge books by their cover, I sure don't judge computer games by their cover art...;) I mean, I could care less whether some fictional 3d-model/artist's-rendition-of-a-person's belly-button is revealed on the cover--or whether a shirt covers the belly-button. Who gives a great big flip, eh? Has nothing whatever to do with the quality of the game itself--nothing. And that's all I care about, personally. The cover art for the game--for any game--is so far beneath my personal game-hunting/investigating radar that this post represents the first time in my posting history that I've ever mentioned the topic, even in passing.

Any web site that would make an issue out of something so trivial is doing so simply to draw attention to itself--often such sites speak in the imperial "we" instead of the author being honest and saying "I"...which is another reason to disdain comments of this type. They are meaningless drivel--not worth your consideration--not worth the time of day.

It's not even an issue of moral turpitude, for instance--because even children on public beaches are legally exposed to a wide array of bikinis and belly-buttons--so there's not even a moral component to such a suggestion, even for strange people who find something salacious about bare bellies. There's nothing in such "charges" that anyone could use to "threaten" Larian (or any other developer.) Nothing. If a site is dumb enough to try and "stir the pot" with such silly presumption, most developers could and would ignore it--and whether the author meant them as a veiled threat would be irrelevant--amusing, even.

But, even if a developer comes to the conclusion that a particular objection is specious and void of any redeeming social value, he still has to carefully consider all issues raised by potential customers, even the inconsequential ones like this one. Then he does what he wants because he decides it is prudent to either respond or ignore such commentary. It's a simple judgment call--but the bottom line is a developer has to consider his customers and his market--"blackmail" has absolutely nothing to do with it, imo...;) But customer satisfaction is the Holy Grail for any game developer worth his salt, and even dumb comments must be considered and weighed. It's just part of doing business with the public.

A web-site author that would wag a finger at a developer and say, "If you keep doing this we're not going to review your games anymore," is acting pompously and far above his station--as reviewing popular games might be the only reason anyone at all visits his site, and refusing to review popular games for any reason will hurt the struggling web site far more than it will the successful game developer. In fact, to the developer, what a site owner might do or threaten to do just won't make any difference at all. And, if a developer does anything at all, it will be because the developer deems it wise--not at all because he "fears" some obscure web-site somewhere...;)

There is one thing many overlook when it comes to gaming websites and reviewing. The gaming sites forums and users that can pester the crap out of the authors to review a game. Especially if the game is really good, the site will have no choice, what happens if all the customers don't get their new favorite game reviewed? They find another, humans are fantastic at switching to alternatives. If a resource fails to meet their needs, they simply find another.

This was a heated topic here as well, and Larian will listen to their forums before others. After all the most loyal of customers reside here instead of there. As for me, I like women in full body armor to protect their bellies from being sliced open. Also getting rid of the cleavage as that makes armor weak and would shatter their breastbone if hit with a war hammer.

I couldnt care less about the cover art never bought a game based on it. Look at the Baldurs gate games, text no picture at all.

That said I oppose any and all censorship in any form. If someone doesnt like something, then "Thank you please take your business elsewhere".

Bikini Armor will not protect a womans anatomy from weapons, even of the friendly sort. LOL
( and what is up with Trethons old Robe? I thought it was a bug, but it cant be....haha love it)!

The incongrous appearance of a beautiful face jutting out of a suit of full plate armor may be even more alluring to me.

To Larian, just ignore such sites and tactics, do what you do, some will always hate, but your fans will champion your cause and loyally buy your product.

That is a bug; there are no textures for Trethon's Old Robes.

a bug I like! Probably first of a kind! Isnt Trethon in the Pickaxe Tavern? isnt he the one not wearing a shirt? Thats why I thought it was not a bug, Sort of an emperors new clothes type of gag, I was thinking...