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Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy #566811
05/06/15 05:48 PM
05/06/15 05:48 PM
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The Fresh Prince Offline OP
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I read numerous rave reviews about the game and grabbed it recently, and I'm only at Cyseal, but so far the characters in the game have definitely been pretty whimsical and goofy. Like, all of them mostly.

Is that just how the game is? How can you tell a serious theme/story in that kind of environment?

Or is the entire game not like this? Should I just keep going?

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566812
05/06/15 05:56 PM
05/06/15 05:56 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Well, the Enhanced Edition is coming out soonish, free to all current owners of D:OS, and it includes massive rewrites of the game, so maybe that will be better.

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566815
06/06/15 01:15 AM
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Jito463 Offline

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Larian does tend to write their games with tongue firmly planted in cheek. It's not meant to be taken too seriously (plot wise).

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566820
06/06/15 04:50 AM
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The dialog is quite goofy a lot of the time, yes. But there are some dark parts of the story, and as Stabbey said, the Enhanced Edition will alter various dialogs. It probably won't totally change the tone of the game though, which is aloof with the occasional bite of seriousness.

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566825
06/06/15 09:20 AM
06/06/15 09:20 AM
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Aenra Offline
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I actually like their style of writing smile

..sure hope it won't change (a lot) what with all the new writer hirings..

I find that the more "seriously" i am supposed to take any setting, story or circumstance, the more emphasis i will put on discerning the details, on thinking everything through; thoroughly. Ninety nine percent of the time, that is the wrooong approach to take in a game. It is still a game. Whatever its "content", it is meant to address a vast audience ranging between many cultures, 12 and 60 years of age. There are consequences to that. Or my way of saying that while story is most definitely appreciated, it can hardly be done right within this medium.

What goofy/humorous allows for is a lighter approach. Which in itself allows not only for less of a disappointment, but also for a broader, more relaxed view of the game.
So for example within the context of D:OS, some of the things i thought to try out? Would not even have considered them elsewhere. I consider that a bonus, not a defect. Times were i could get blown away by story, yes. Add about three more decades of age, and at best i find me laughing. In irony. For a story trying too hard to be something way deeper than it could ever have been. See witcher, see bioware, see swtor smile

but again, opinions!


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Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566827
06/06/15 11:40 AM
06/06/15 11:40 AM
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I guess it's a matter of taste, though personally I like the mixture of silliness and seriousness. I find that most other games that I like have elements of both, though clearly, say, Dragon Age Inquisition is a little more serious but still has lots of absurd humour, and the likes of Elder Scrolls a bit more serious again. I'd hate a game to be too po-faced.

The Divinity series is certainly one of the most amusing out there, and it does seem to be a key part of Larian's writing. I rather like that and enjoy it for what it is.


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Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566828
06/06/15 11:47 AM
06/06/15 11:47 AM
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Honestly, while I like the approach Larian usually takes in their games - they usually have a good mix of humor and seriousness, in this one, I think they went too far to the humor side.

It's hard to put a finger on it, but while this game is supposed to have serious parts, I think there's something off with the balance. Too many NPC's dialogue is too much clever bantering, which makes them blend together more and seem less real. The silly parts deaden the impact the serious parts are supposed to be having. Like just before you head to Hunter's Edge, Madora tells you a horrible, tragic story of her past, which completely clashes with her silly, overly-paranoid-but-harmles-old-biddy personality. The story involves a massacred town and specifically a murdered child, but the first thing you see when you get there is a friendly, jolly skeleton bantering cleverly as he picks through the corpses of the townsfolk for their bits. That just doesn't really work for me.

Larian have handled other instances of stuff like that with the appropriate gravitas in Divinity 1 and 2. Humor is good, drama is good, but neither is good when you crank the lever all the way to one side all the time. You either get grimdark or a cryfest on the drama side, or unmitigated goofiness on the other side. Too much of one kills the other. They have to be blended together better or neither comedy nor drama work.

Also, in D:OS, you can't snark at anyone anymore. I really miss the snarky options that were in Div 2.

Last edited by Stabbey; 06/06/15 11:51 AM. Reason: more thoughts
Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566830
06/06/15 12:32 PM
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I think I can see your point, and if I think back to D2, I can see it was more similar to the example of something slightly less silly that I mentioned, DA:I. Such as arriving on Sentinel Island where I was greeted by the wonderful silliness of the Hermit's dialogue, in stark contrast to some of the saddest parts of the entire game which came shortly after. Now that I cast my mind back, perhaps D:OS does lack some of that real emotional pull that D2 had. Maybe the Enhanced Edition will add some of that; I don't totally object if it doesn't, but I think I am now getting the point.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: Stabbey] #566836
07/06/15 03:16 AM
07/06/15 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted By: Stabbey


Also, in D:OS, you can't snark at anyone anymore. I really miss the snarky options that were in Div 2.


My suspicion is this was a victim of the keyword system, which they later walked back. By that point it was too late to radically improve the PC dialog option breadth.

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566855
07/06/15 05:28 PM
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Honestly, I'm glad that it's as goofy as it is now. In today's world where every RPG is trying to be dark and gritty (The Witcher, Dragon Age Inquisition, Pillars of Eternity, Wasteland 2), it's a breath of fresh air to see one that doesn't take itself too seriously. Brings me back to Baldur's Gate (because, let's face it. It didn't took itself too seriously either).

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566857
07/06/15 08:10 PM
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Haleseen Offline
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I thought Baldur's Gate was pretty serious in tone. It was also somewhat frightening if you're new to D&D and didn't roll your character good, those gibblerings scared the crap out of me when I was a kid and wiped my party. (Then again, I was a kid).

Wasteland 2 isn't too 'serious' as in it's pretty hilarious with some of the concepts that it brings up with certain factions, and the dialogue. I mean, there's serious tones, but it's not over-the-top on either side.

But I'd like for some of the stuff to have a more serious tone, especially now that they are voice acting the majority of the game.

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: Haleseen] #566858
07/06/15 08:21 PM
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What I meant by Baldur's Gate not taking itself seriously is this: It uses every single fantasy clich駸 in the book, it knows that it's clich馘 and it revels in it. It doesn't try to be deep or profound (despite some really good character arcs). It just tries to be pure fun (even if it's really hard at the beginning).

Edit: And I'm glad that there's now another game like that.

Last edited by POLE7645; 07/06/15 08:24 PM.
Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566864
08/06/15 10:37 AM
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Oh I love the silliness of Larian, one of the main reasons I love their games.There is enough gritty stuff out there.That being said, I do miss the sarcastic comments.You have some, but in DD you could really have at it smile Hope that returns



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Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566872
08/06/15 10:23 PM
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The problem was never *the* (singular) general tone, the problem was that D:OS couldn't hold it's own tone, like an incontinent mood writer always leaking tone over things where other tone was intended, and often completely confusing what was funny, goofy, serious and absolutely grim. (sorry for that analogy ,p). There are many places in the game (D:OS) that are very very dark and grim, but the game ignores that tone, often times ignores the entire place and acts as if that isn't really there to begin with. (Immaculate village mass grave?) This is in stark contrast to the "mood" the game has. When you play the game, the general mood is one of danger and darkness. Exploding skeletons, murdered people, a murder plot intrigue, good vs evil battle. This stuff just doesn't lend itself to random "funny" or if you go that way, you have to go that way ALL the way. (Would make D:OS more like a JRPG or a parody though.. but not necessarily worse ,p)

Also again, D:OS is nothing, writing wise, compared to BG2. It doesn't even play in the same league. BG2 played it's DnD roots straight and more importantly, it played it's campaign roots 100% straight, it had some of the best game writers that existed in that era who came straight from decades of DM experience (aka, people who knew what worked in DnD and what didn't), it NEVER strayed from it's own tone. Certain areas were grim, others were dark, others relaxing (rest dialog sometimes), but the general tone was always fitting. Everyone was always in character, even Minsk and spacehamster Boo, which because the game played it straight, was infinitely better than if the game had played this "goofy" .

Also to me, D:OS was grim. The random goofyness only helped to throw me out of immersion, but from the basic level? The story and things you do and see in this game are GRIM and dark. Which is what people generally mean when they say "The game confuses it's own tone"

To sum it up, the reason you missed a "pull" into the story, was because the game didn't play it's own strengths straight. It didn't know what it wanted to be. Nowhere else can this be more seen than with the dual dialog system, which oftentimes turns a situation into a caricatural mood. Meaning it's 2 different, mutually exclusive moods (very often this is the case). Maybe worse, you can tell this is often not even intentional.

I hope with new writers, more important than new writing, comes a writing oversight, a moderator that checks *all* writing so that it fits a required mood. (required by the scene)

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566874
08/06/15 11:24 PM
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Haleseen Offline
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Thank you for that enlightening post. It does explain a lot of what was going on in the game, and even more reason why I'm excited about D:OS:EE

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #566878
09/06/15 03:25 AM
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Yeah, eRe4s3r, I think that sounds about right.

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #567147
22/06/15 12:58 PM
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Quote:
Exploding skeletons, murdered people, a murder plot intrigue, good vs evil battle. This stuff just doesn't lend itself to random "funny" or if you go that way, you have to go that way ALL the way.

You pretty much summed up the plot of 98% of RPG's. And the content of 100% of RPG (although exploding skeletons might not be there in a non-fantasy setting).

And no, I don't agree the base premises of RPG-gameplay or story automatically means that the game also needs to be grim. Just as much that you can make a hack&slash game featuring GENOCIDE all dark and moody (Diablos I & II) or just really light and happy (say, Torchlight, and probably many more).

Re: Getting a bit worried this game is too goofy [Re: The Fresh Prince] #567193
25/06/15 05:30 PM
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Waltc Offline
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Originally Posted By: The Fresh Prince
I read numerous rave reviews about the game and grabbed it recently, and I'm only at Cyseal, but so far the characters in the game have definitely been pretty whimsical and goofy. Like, all of them mostly.

Is that just how the game is? How can you tell a serious theme/story in that kind of environment?

Or is the entire game not like this? Should I just keep going?


Yes, definitely keep going...! There is a lot to this game. It's not that the characters are "whimsical and goofy," it's that they have a sense of humor, a sense of wit. The plot is anything but "goofy," I assure you. If you don't continue it will be your loss (I'm on my fourth play through, eagerly awaiting the EE so that I can start again...!) You seem to be in the first 1% of the game, more or less, at the moment.

I've heard folks say the game isn't "dark enough" for them, but I happen to be among those who think a game doesn't have to play like a funeral dirge before I can enjoy it.

We could explore topics like the necessity of a healthy sense of humor in overall mental health, and how it's basically the psychopaths among us who lack a healthy sense of humor, etc. But...let's don't...;)



Last edited by Waltc; 25/06/15 05:34 PM.

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