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The new Lizard race #568455
02/09/15 06:46 PM
02/09/15 06:46 PM
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TheNorthernRock Offline OP

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Did anyone else get super intrigued with the lizard race? The skills, especially dragons, or even the passive are just so cool!


May WE explore like Adventurers, roam like Raiders, live like Kings and Queens
Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568458
02/09/15 07:59 PM
02/09/15 07:59 PM
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More importantly, if we pull the lizards tail off does it grow back?

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568461
02/09/15 08:24 PM
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Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568462
02/09/15 08:51 PM
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Cattletech Offline

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Lizard power suggestions:
Chameleon - invisibility if 5 meters or further away. cf. Reptile from Mortal Kombat.
Lizard Brain - 50% harder to charm, but also less likely to charm others.
Triple Wield - that tail ain't just for show. Can wield third item (weapon or shield), but at a penalty.
Webbed feet - 25% faster on water surfaces.
Not Prone to Falling - having a tail helps you keep balanced. Harder to knock down, and stays down for 1 round less.
My Precious Hoard - Use of dragon abilities increases your appetite for others belonging. Gives you a bonus to pickpocket, and penalty for being pickpocketed - but also a malus to Constitution if the wealth is evenly distributed in your party.
Elitism - if your stat is highest in the party, it gets boosted by another +1.

Last edited by Cattletech; 03/09/15 10:46 AM.
Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568463
02/09/15 09:00 PM
02/09/15 09:00 PM
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Dr Koin Offline

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As I was saying in the comments section of the KS page, I don't like, for now, the idea of the Dragon branch. I get that the lizards think they descend from the Dragons, and it would make sense they'd try to emulate their ancestors in shape and ability, yet I have a hard time picturing "lizards" as fire-breathers, even in the late game. Not sure I like the idea of the temporary wings too, nor the idea of suddenly getting huge for a few turns.

I think racial abilities should be more subtle things. Warm and Cold blood, I really, really dig. Excellent idea I now want into the final product! Poison extraction, hell yeah. And things like that. Subtle. circumstancial. Double-edged. Reminds me of Character creation in Arcanum and Daggerfall, when whenever you'd take a beneficial effect, you had to compensate with a detrimental one.

Cattletech suggestions falls into this category. Triple Wield wields (lolol) something interesting...

Last edited by Dr Koin; 03/09/15 01:00 AM.

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Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568466
02/09/15 09:26 PM
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Joetato Offline
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Would enemies potentially be able to use the racial skills as well? If so, i hope i never meet a lizard with a source point in a dark alley.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: Dr Koin] #568467
02/09/15 10:00 PM
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TheNorthernRock Offline OP

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Hhmmm, the warm and cold part sure is the most exciting part, makes choosing races interesting (I assume all classes have a take back).

As for the fire breathing, I'm not very keen either, but just thinking of an evolution from lizard to dragon, that's pretty interesting.


May WE explore like Adventurers, roam like Raiders, live like Kings and Queens
Re: The new Lizard race [Re: Joetato] #568468
02/09/15 10:02 PM
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TheNorthernRock Offline OP

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Not exactly sure, but that'd be challenging, but predictable at the same time. I hope enemies have special skills that players do not have.


May WE explore like Adventurers, roam like Raiders, live like Kings and Queens
Re: The new Lizard race [Re: Dr Koin] #568470
02/09/15 10:34 PM
02/09/15 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dr Koin
As I was saying in the comments section of the KS page, I don't like, for now, the idea of the Dragon branch. I get that the lizards think they descends from the Dragon, and it would make sense they'd try to emulate their ancestors in shape and ability, yet I have a hard time picturing "lizards" as fire-breathers, even in the late game. Not sure I like the idea of the temporary wings too, nor the idea of suddenly getting huge for a few turns.

I think racial abilities should be more subtle things. Warm and Cold blood, I really, really dig. Excellent idea I now want into the final product! Poison extraction, hell yeah. And things like that. Subtle. circumstancial. Double-edged. Reminds me of Character creation in Arcanum and Daggerfall, when whenever you'd take a beneficial effect, you had to compensate with a detrimental one.


I'm going to agree with this. No fire breath or wings for lizards. Considering what the Patriarch said about what Dragons really are in Div 2, it doesn't seem to make a lot of sense for lizards to be dragon descendants.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568471
02/09/15 11:19 PM
02/09/15 11:19 PM
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I think a lot of the ideas are great but I have to agree that the high level dragon abilities seemed to go a bit far. I'm a fan of the more subtle ones too.


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Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568477
03/09/15 12:11 AM
03/09/15 12:11 AM
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I agree with the others above, I too would prefer all racial bonuses to remain passive and subtle.

Also it's nice to see the lizard race making a full return. This game looks set to really capture that original essence from the first Divinity game with all the different races in the world.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: Dr Koin] #568485
03/09/15 01:12 AM
03/09/15 01:12 AM
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Originally Posted By: Dr Koin
I think racial abilities should be more subtle things. Warm and Cold blood,


Not to sound nit-picky, but out of curiosity, do you (or anyone here) actually understand the difference between warm blooded and cold blooded, in it's accurate context? I see it used all the time to mean resistant to hot or cold, but that's not actually what it stands for.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568491
03/09/15 01:20 AM
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Dr Koin Offline

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Oh I'm merely quoting what the team at Larian suggested in the latest update :

Quote:
10% chance to fall asleep when chilled (Passive)
Cold-bloods get sleepy in low temperatures. We see it happen at Larian all the time...

Automatically hastened when warm/hot (Passive)
Hand them a cup of coffee on the other hand...


Which somehow makes sense, biologicaly. Doesn't it ?
And gameplay-wise, it fits quite right into what we got used to DOS1 : playing with elements. So, a double-edged racial skill with real connections to the higher gameplay, while retaining a minimum of logic, I'd say it's a winner. smile

Last edited by Dr Koin; 03/09/15 01:21 AM.

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Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568493
03/09/15 02:06 AM
03/09/15 02:06 AM
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I think dragon-esque skills are okay so long as they require source points. Certainly it'd be weird seeing every average lizard sprout wings or breath fire, but if a powerful sourcerer can invoke some innate aspect of themselves to reveal their fullest potential/desires, that's thematically okay with me.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568494
03/09/15 02:31 AM
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A poison spitting lizard that becomes some kind of fire-breathing winged dragon sounds a little weird in my humble opinion...

I also like the subtle approach, for I'm more of a strategic/hardcore player. It's nice to have some racials which go further than "Resistant to <input.element>" and interact with the environment or are situational (but useful).

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: chacaceiro] #568496
03/09/15 03:24 AM
03/09/15 03:24 AM
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Originally Posted By: chacaceiro
A poison spitting lizard that becomes some kind of fire-breathing winged dragon sounds a little weird in my humble opinion...

I also like the subtle approach, for I'm more of a strategic/hardcore player. It's nice to have some racials which go further than "Resistant to <input.element>" and interact with the environment or are situational (but useful).


Excited for the new race, but yeah after a while reading I began forgetting it was a lizard they were talking about. I ended up picturing a dragon type.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568498
03/09/15 05:18 AM
03/09/15 05:18 AM
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I really like the idea of the racial traits being quite substancial. Of course there need to be both advantages and drawbacks to balance things out. Way too often in RPGs the racial traits end up as little more than gimmicks and it would be a nice change to see then really impact the gameplay of different characters throughout the game.

The fall asleed chance when cold, hastened when warm passives would really bring the race feel like actual lizards and the other minor ones suggested seem quite nice too but I'm a little torn over the dragonic skills.
They could work and even be rather awesome with the Source points and therefore not being spammable in every fight. And I'm even more intriqued by the idea of an enemy suddenly wielding one of these abilities, but the idea has it's risks.
One thing that might make things interesting is that every lizard (that ends up being a Sourcerer) could choose an aspect of the dragons to focus on (or maybe it could be based on the bloodline of the lizard). Meaning some would breathe fire, while others could temporarily call on the size and strength of dragons and some might want to opt for the temporary wings and so on... This would make things much less predictable and create nice variety.

Last edited by TyhmaLapsi; 03/09/15 05:35 AM.
Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568530
03/09/15 07:32 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Okay, of the ideas suggested on the update page, I have thoughts on a few.

Health Regeneration
- This one isn't a bad idea, but I think it would be a lot harder to implement once you get down to it. Logically, it's supposed to be "regenerates in the sun". Great! ...How do you determine what areas are sunny and what are not? Should you regenerate indoors or in caves? Should you regenerate in dark (night-ambience) areas? It could become a huge headache to do it 'logically'. So for that reason, I am against Health Regeneration.


Resist Poison
- An okay idea, but how many bonuses will each race get? Probably not 10, so this one I'd say is low priority.


10% Chance to fall asleep when chilled
- An interesting idea, which makes some sense... but falling asleep could be a really obnoxious status. What if there are whole areas with environmental cold (permanant chill)? I'd suggest something else: When Chilled, Movement decreases by an additional 0.6 meters per AP.


Automatically hastened when warm/hot
- This is the counterpart to the chilled one, and I think it fits pretty well.


+1 Intelligence Bonus
- I think this is okay, but I rather assumed that the different races would have a different stat spread than the humans by default, and that would be part of the point of special features for races. Maybe it should also have a -1 to some other stat as well, like Constitution.


Poor Dark Vision
- This seems fine.


Produce Poison
- Um, yuck. And no. Just... no. There's probably lots of sources of poison anyway.

Dragon Breath / Dragon Wings / I Am Dragon
- NO. I don't care if the Lizards think they're descended from Dragons. But actually making that canon seems too much and too lore-unfriendly. Additionally, those powers are far too much. I'm fine with minor passives for races, less so huge things like that.


Carrion Eater
- I suppose that's an okay one.


********

I've got a suggestion or two of my own, based on the Lizard Lore.

Frailty (-1 Constitution)
- Lizards have been long engaged in practices of selective breeding for beauty, but breeding (and in some cases, in-breeding) for beauty has come at the expense of a more frail constitution.


Chameleon (Active Power)
- Lizards can make themselves blend into the background becoming almost invisible for a full minute. However, they must remain still, for the illusion is broken if they move.
- This is a possible once-a-day power, but it could be more frequent if Larian thinks it's okay.

Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568535
03/09/15 10:05 PM
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I was more thinking of something along the lines of a bonus to stealth, or an increased malus to be hit the further away you are from the attacker, for Chameleon.
I don't really fancy a skill redundant of the Stealth global ability, but limited both in time and actions. It would feel like the Shadowmelt of the Night Elves in WoW.

And:
Scaly Skin(passive)
- The scales covering your body act as a natural defense, providing you with a bonus to physical resistance. However, being chilled will impair your movements and slow your reflexes, making you easier to hit.

Whip tail(active/overwatch)
- So they thought they could sneak up behind you ? Whenever a foe tries to attack you from behind, knockdown and knockback up to 2 foes standing behind you.


I also like this one, submitted earlier by Cattletech:
Quote:
Elitism - if your stat is highest in the party, it gets boosted by another +1.
but it MAY provide a huge bonus, especially late game.

Last edited by Dr Koin; 03/09/15 10:05 PM.

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Re: The new Lizard race [Re: TheNorthernRock] #568538
03/09/15 11:18 PM
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Stabbey, since you brought up 'once per day', how would you define a 'day'?

IIRC, 'days' weren't defined in D:OS, and likely wouldn't be a factor in D:OS:2 either.

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