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Let's discuss polymorpher! #571274
08/10/15 02:52 AM
08/10/15 02:52 AM
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MechSoldier Offline OP
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This elf predicts both it and bard would probably be the winners in the pick a skill tree, and polymorpher has quite a lot of potential for those who want to be good ol' shapeshifters (or druids (mixing geomancer with polymorpher would definitely yield that pretty well)). So what kinds of skills do you think a polymorpher has? I have a few ideas I can share.

Forms: Probably acquired as different skill books (I.E. Zombie, Troll, Crab). You would pick up the racial skills in exchange for your own by transforming into a different species. Would benefit both rogues and warriors. Using a mouse to slip by or provide recon for the rest of the party and then turning into an orc to crush them! Mwahaha!

Wings: Small additions onto a character like this for a temporary amount of time could provide some tactical advantage. With wings, you could soar over land hazards, yet still be vulnerable to gasses.

Claws: Who needs a sword when you are your own weapon?! Or maybe clawed feet to give temporary immunity to tripping.

I think one of the devs mentioned being able to sprout tentacles for extra melee reach. But share your ideas! What do you think a polymorpher should have?


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571285
08/10/15 07:46 AM
08/10/15 07:46 AM
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Well.... I don't want to disappoint you, but it is known that in the end there will be Polymorpher and Summoner, no Bard... sorry. grin

Then I think we need to look at where you will be able to use these skills. Only in combat or even in NPC/world interaction?

With NPC/world interaction you could maybe shapeshift into a undead so you could talk freely with other undead and so on.

In fight I think more local changes would be cool. For example you will shapeshift you legs into (claymore yoma legs - in case anyone knows claymore) so you could walk more distance with one point etecera...


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571292
08/10/15 09:30 AM
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*throw rotten fruits at you*
Die, Summoners, die !
I know I'll be disappointed when it's Polymorpher and Summoner. Two stretch goals wasted for me! Maybe Polymorpher can be salvaged though.

I think good skilltrees should cover both non combat and combat. As much as I'd like to talk my way through the game and avoid combat, the Divinity games are essentially combat driven. Still, a little non-combat freedom would be sweet !

Somehow I don't expect a full polymorph / shapeshifting at all, or maybe as a late, endgame feature. I strongly discourage any kind of polymorphing into another race : there were already a lot of design and conceptual issues with the Mask giving the player the ability to do just that. So a human being able to polymorph into a lizard and essentially bypass some of their own racial pros and cons is a definitive no-no.
The ability to change into a target animal which in turn would enable you to speak with said animal ( as a kind of replacement for Pet Pal with more versatility ) or spy on a conversation "safely" is a little more seducing. It's lots of work though.
It's been mentionned that polymorphing into a rat to, say, enter a room through a hole was impossible, technically, as the editor wouldn't allow for things like smaller gaps. Though it could work with a contextual action "enter the hole?". Maybe it's an idea.

To be honest I don't expect Polymorphing to be that incredible. I linked Tan Burci's illustration of a woman turning her arm into some kind of steel whip, to which Swen commented "Oh, look, Polymorphism !", leading me to believe it's essentially going to be local transformations that will primarily be usable in combat. Maybe out of combat advantages like running faster, as you suggested. Acrobatics, flight, swim, I don't believe any of this is going to be in the game, unless they go the extra mile and add special interactions to the elements to react to a potential Polymorpher in the group. It would be neat, but I doubt it will happen.


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571293
08/10/15 09:37 AM
08/10/15 09:37 AM
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Magnifico Offline

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Polymorpher has some really cool possibilities.

Turn into a gas to move through the gaps in doors instead of having to use a key or smash it down. Or to float over impassable areas or over surfaces without taking damage. Makes you susceptible to electrical damage while polymorphed.

Turn into an pool of electrified water for a round to stun your opponents. Makes you more susceptible to freeze while polymorphed.

Turn into a poison cloud for a round to poison your opponents. Makes you more susceptible to fire while polymorphed.

Turn an opponent into a pool of water rendering them useless for a number of turns. Plus allowing an aerothurge player to electrify said pool of water to stun opponents.

Turn into any NPC that you've just interacted with for a few turns. Would offer interesting plot options. If you fall within the NPCs vision cone they attack you. Maybe that will be covered by the shapeshifter mask.

Turn your arms into weapons with different abilities.

Turn you skin into armour of different sorts.

Turn into inanimate objects. Could be used as a plot mechanic to allow a player to turn into an item that is given to an NPC who takes them somewhere they couldn't otherwise reach. Once there the player could resume their normal form.

Doppleganger - Turn into a replica of one of your other party members for a number of rounds complete with abilities, talents, weapons, skills etc.

Animal Form - Turn into an animal for a few rounds allowing you to speak with animals. Alternative to Pet Pal. Or allow you to take mouse form to scurry under doors or reach places you couldn't normally. Or allow you to enter rooms and not be noticed to listen to conversations to offer plot development opportunities.

Polymorph Other - Turn an opponent into a Doppleganger of yourself during combat. They would still continue to attack you as per normal, but all other opponents during the battle would consider the polymorphee (I've just invented that word!) the same as any other member of your party. ie they'd attack them.

The options are endless!

Last edited by Magnifico; 08/10/15 09:55 AM.

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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571295
08/10/15 09:51 AM
08/10/15 09:51 AM
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right behind you
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I do not like polymorth. (well, it can be good but I can think of better skill trees).

You already have the mask to turn into another race (at least I guess so) and for elementals, animals, skelletons and some other things you already have summons.

@magnifico: Sounds nice, but I do not think you can turn yourself or others into a cloud or a pool of something. It is already hard to animate "normal" creatures. How should a cloud or pool or a man with tentacles move, attack, cast spells or react to an attack? And how do you visualize it in a way that it looks not totally silly? Well, if you have answers to these questions (I have not) than it might be good.


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571296
08/10/15 10:04 AM
08/10/15 10:04 AM
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@Mad. My thinking was that for any of the spells that turn you into a pool or cloud for combat you simply appear as per any of the existing spells do. ie you have to point to where you want to appear in polymorphed form and then a cloud or pool appears there as if a spell had been cast.

You cannot move for the round you are polymorphed while the effect is taking place. So there are no attack or movement animations as the "attack" is turning into a poison cloud or an electrified puddle in the first place.

Likewise you are only susceptible to the sorts of attacks that that element is vulnerable to so the animations would be the same. Perhaps if you were hit with the appropriate attack you would "fall out" of your polymorphed form and back into your normal form. So for example if you were hit with fire whilst a poison cloud you'd explode (and damage anyone nearby as well as yourself...including party members) and re-appear at the point you pointed to in your normal shape. If you were frozen whilst in water form you'd turn into an ice slick which would affect combat appropriately for characters walking on the surface. At the end of the freeze you'd resume your normal shape. You might even have one of your own players freeze you on purpose to create a large ice slick to trip a group of enemies at the cost of your frozen polymorpher being out of action for a few rounds or until you can hit him with a warm spell of some sort. Lots of tactical opportunities.

I'm sure they could come up with reasonable animations for flowing water of drifting gas to allow you to move in that form for the non-combat situations like getting under doors. Or alternatively just use my other suggestion of polymorphing into an animal like a mouse that can scuttle under a door and forget the gas idea.

Changing arms into weapons. I'd guess they'd need a new model of some sort? Turning your skin into armour would be ok. They already have something that re-textures for things like Fortify.

Last edited by Magnifico; 08/10/15 10:09 AM.

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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571300
08/10/15 10:17 AM
08/10/15 10:17 AM
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I'm just not sold on Polymorph. While it sounds good on paper, do you really want to be a Ditto? Bard and Alchemist please.


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: ravensRblack] #571302
08/10/15 10:25 AM
08/10/15 10:25 AM
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LordW Offline
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Originally Posted By: ravensRblack
I'm just not sold on Polymorph. While it sounds good on paper, do you really want to be a Ditto? Bard and Alchemist please.


Okey you talked me into it! Alchemist and summoner grin


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571303
08/10/15 10:30 AM
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Soo, here are some ideas for the polimorpher: (some of them are freshly harvested from a long dead Hungarian pen and paper RPG, but still fine as inspiration)

- claws, fangs and horns (can be a cool boost for a monk fe.)
- 1-2 extra arms - modified arm (for example octopus, cancer...) fun, if lasts for at least some rounds and is always visible.
- acid spit (ranged attack, has to drink something to be able to use it again)
- wandering eye (1 additional wandering eye. Useful by spotting secrets, traps and sneaking people) passive
- double the bones (char has twice as much joints and gets extra dexterity and/or speed)
- tongue of a frog (pulls distant foe to the character) - but can be cut easily
- Chitin skin (for extra defense, but may be unable to wear some kind of armor)
- bone spikes (to use ranged or malee)
- pit mounth (character can swallow up smaller animals or enemies. Can combine with acid spit.)
- stomach pocket (char can eat objects like spikes, metal, everything and vomit them on a foe. Can combine with acid spit for extra damage.)
- (butterfly) wings (bonus to movement and avoiding to be hit)
- mermaid tongue (voice able to charm or hurt everyone! in range)
- moles claws (able to dig without shovel, throw dirt on enemies or dig himself deep to disappear in combat)

What do you think? You have other ideas?


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: warg] #571329
08/10/15 03:13 PM
08/10/15 03:13 PM
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MechSoldier Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: warg

Soo, here are some ideas for the polimorpher: (some of them are freshly harvested from a long dead Hungarian pen and paper RPG, but still fine as inspiration)

What do you think? You have other ideas?


Ah, I like those! They definitely go with the ability of one who can control their body well!


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571342
08/10/15 05:30 PM
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i'd like to see shapeshifting (at the top tier maybe) - ie wolf-, bear- whatever-form

Last edited by 4verse; 08/10/15 05:30 PM.

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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571347
08/10/15 07:53 PM
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Polymorph seems like it is quite set up to be a close range intelligence character (As if Mages don't have ENOUGH skill trees... How many do Rogues get? 2... Fighters? 1)

So essentially it is a glass cannon close range mage. Based on dishing out a lot of damage and CC at the same time, but without the flexibility of Marshals or the ungodly CC of Rogues.

So what does this put mages at?

7 skill trees.

Last edited by Neonivek; 08/10/15 08:15 PM.
Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571471
10/10/15 10:03 PM
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let's state the obvious: turn into a dragon!


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: Dark_Ansem] #571474
11/10/15 12:21 AM
11/10/15 12:21 AM
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I'd rather have the ultimate ability be turning into some sort of elderich Cthonian beast that tears out the minds of all those who gaze upon it.

Especially since the Lizardkin likely have a "turn into a dragon" ability :P

Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571478
11/10/15 02:19 AM
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Yes! I can turn into a dragon now!

This is aweso... Oh, wait, I can only fly for 20 seconds in a straight line before I hit the invisible wall at the map's edge. ... Oh, wait, I can't fly over mountains in the middle so I don't break triggers. ... Well, at least there's combat, now I can't wait to kick butt! ... Oh, wait, I can't move any farther than in my regular form. ... And I can't even one-shot these enemies ... and I'm taking a lot more damage than I was expecting.

Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: Stabbey] #571497
11/10/15 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stabbey
Yes! I can turn into a dragon now!

This is aweso... Oh, wait, I can only fly for 20 seconds in a straight line before I hit the invisible wall at the map's edge. ... Oh, wait, I can't fly over mountains in the middle so I don't break triggers. ... Well, at least there's combat, now I can't wait to kick butt! ... Oh, wait, I can't move any farther than in my regular form. ... And I can't even one-shot these enemies ... and I'm taking a lot more damage than I was expecting.


all wrong. except the first row. A mod in Dragon Age did it beautifully.

Last edited by Dark_Ansem; 11/10/15 03:01 PM.

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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: Dark_Ansem] #571500
11/10/15 03:20 PM
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Originally Posted By: Dark_Ansem
all wrong. except the first row. A mod in Dragon Age did it beautifully.


Whatever Dragon Age did has literally nothing at all to do with D:OS. Those are different games with different engines and I'm pretty sure that Dragon Age is real-time, not turn-based combat.

Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: Stabbey] #571508
11/10/15 06:09 PM
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Originally Posted By: Stabbey
Yes! I can turn into a dragon now!

This is aweso... Oh, wait, I can only fly for 20 seconds in a straight line before I hit the invisible wall at the map's edge. ... Oh, wait, I can't fly over mountains in the middle so I don't break triggers. ... Well, at least there's combat, now I can't wait to kick butt! ... Oh, wait, I can't move any farther than in my regular form. ... And I can't even one-shot these enemies ... and I'm taking a lot more damage than I was expecting.


why would i allow flight in a top down game? does not make too much sense IMO. the point of flying is moving in 3D after all

Last edited by 4verse; 11/10/15 06:09 PM.

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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: MechSoldier] #571509
11/10/15 06:13 PM
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unless it serves plot points :P


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Re: Let's discuss polymorpher! [Re: 4verse] #571517
11/10/15 07:10 PM
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Originally Posted By: 4verse

why would i allow flight in a top down game? does not make too much sense IMO. the point of flying is moving in 3D after all


Exactly correct. And without flight, becoming a dragon would be underwhelming, in my opinion.

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