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Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds #571805
20/10/15 10:52 AM
20/10/15 10:52 AM
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gGeo Offline OP
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I have just found these great game music examples:
Warning: contains rude lyrics and requires a blood-alcohol level of at least 0.1%!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QVCnkso1Ipc
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZEAw4Efiqg

Seriusly, original sin series doesnt not take everything serious. Will we have the damn easy going songs rather then default ambient instrumentals all day long?

Want to sing Original Sin2 songs when Im driving my car. laugh

Fellow forumities, are you in?


Last edited by gGeo; 20/10/15 11:08 AM.
Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571807
20/10/15 12:07 PM
20/10/15 12:07 PM
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The Centaur Offline

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Music in games has to fit the situation. As you can see in these videos, in these particular cases, songs fit. So yes, I can imagine that there are 1 or 2 situations in the game where a song would be nice.
But in most of the game, I think songs with vocals/lyrics would be too distracting. Please keep in mind that the idea is to have a fair amount of voice overs in the game (though full voice overs is probably unachievable, due to the size of the game). To have someone singing songs in the background while you're trying to listen to the voice overs, would get irritating quite fast.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571808
20/10/15 12:21 PM
20/10/15 12:21 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Vocal tracks in games should be used very sparingly, because actual lyrics can be a distraction or be overused.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571810
20/10/15 01:27 PM
20/10/15 01:27 PM
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vometia Offline

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I'm one of those people who can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Song lyrics mean my concentration will be hijacked. And then I'll get pwned.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571821
20/10/15 06:36 PM
20/10/15 06:36 PM
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Music with lyrics should only be used when necessary. Like in an opening cinematic or something. I get to appreciate that more. When actually playing a game I can't take the time to halve my attention between adventuring and trying to understand what I'm actually listening to.


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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571824
20/10/15 07:50 PM
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melianos Offline

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Heroes of Might and Magic 2 had plenty of songs with lyrics (and it was in fact the first game to do so).

It worked absolutely well.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571829
20/10/15 09:07 PM
20/10/15 09:07 PM
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Dr Koin Offline

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I still remember FF8 terrible love song. It's like, I'm still having nightmare of that thing at night.
But the intro song, Liberi Fatalis I think ?, was okay.

Overall it's hard and generally pointless to put a song in a videogame, I think. It CAN work but it's often distracting.
It's perfect in Transistor, but hey, Transistor main character is a female singer, so it fits the theme!


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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: Dr Koin] #571846
21/10/15 11:24 AM
21/10/15 11:24 AM
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Ayvah Offline

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Originally Posted By: Dr Koin
I still remember FF8 terrible love song.

lol. Sounds like we have vastly different taste in music. A song doesn't need to have vocals to become an earworm.

You're really talking about two different ways to use music. Eyes on Me and Liberi Fatalis (both FF8 songs) were only really used in cutscenes. I don't think anyone can realistically argue that a song with lyrics during a cutscene is a bad thing. It's been done... a lot.

When it comes to music during gameplay...

Anyone against the idea of songs with lyrics during actual gameplay has not played Saints Row: The Third during the mission where you skydive onto a skyscraper while Kanye West sings Power (I don't even like Kanye). Vocal tracks still work great even when voiceovers are talking over the top of it.

But the real danger is that it gets repetitive. We can hear a cat meow a hundred times without it bothering us, but there's only so many times we can handle being talked at by a cheese vendor.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: Ayvah] #571848
21/10/15 11:55 AM
21/10/15 11:55 AM
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Dr Koin Offline

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Originally Posted By: Ayvah
Originally Posted By: Dr Koin
I still remember FF8 terrible love song.

lol. Sounds like we have vastly different taste in music. A song doesn't need to have vocals to become an earworm.

You're really talking about two different ways to use music. Eyes on Me and Liberi Fatalis (both FF8 songs) were only really used in cutscenes. I don't think anyone can realistically argue that a song with lyrics during a cutscene is a bad thing. It's been done... a lot.

When it comes to music during gameplay...

Anyone against the idea of songs with lyrics during actual gameplay has not played Saints Row: The Third during the mission where you skydive onto a skyscraper while Kanye West sings Power (I don't even like Kanye). Vocal tracks still work great even when voiceovers are talking over the top of it.

But the real danger is that it gets repetitive. We can hear a cat meow a hundred times without it bothering us, but there's only so many times we can handle being talked at by a cheese vendor.


Yup, it all depends on the how and when - Eyes on Me I felt was dropped out of nowhere, in a game featuring quasi exclusively instrumental. Liberi, as the intro song, was okay - it was literally the first thing you heard in the game. Maybe Eyes on Me would have dissonated less for me had they put more songs throughout the game...

You're right about SR3, but one could argue that's not the only time they used song during gameplay. Actually they do it almost all the time. From radio stations, mostly. Although they also feature "You're the best around" during that awesome luchadore fight involving sharks and "We need a hero" during one of the climax endings. As well as that time when your char sings along Pierce during a car ride.
What I mean is that in games featuring song, it has to feel seamless. Either for the intro credits, end credits, or by being featured all along the game ( through various pieces in order to avoid repetitivity ) - hence why I really didn't like Eyes on Me at all and felt it was awkward and out of place.

So anyway, yeah, lyrics? Naah. DOS musics are mostly instrumental. Mostly.


The Brotherhood of norD is love, the Brotherhood of norD is life.
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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: Dr Koin] #571851
21/10/15 12:34 PM
21/10/15 12:34 PM
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Ayvah Offline

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I do think the timing was a bit odd. I mean, the song was supposedly sung by Rinoa's mother (as a love song directed at Squall's father), but the game never really found a way to actually do anything with that -- like, maybe have the mother sing it during one of the flashback scenes? I'm guessing if they'd written it into the story better, it would have been less jarring for you. I love the story of FF8, but it got dumb sometimes.

Either way, if we end up getting vocals in D:OS2, I'd like some first-rate vocals, not drunken-sailor vocals. XD

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571856
21/10/15 02:33 PM
21/10/15 02:33 PM
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Usually I am against vocal music during gameplay (cut scenes are something different). It can distract a lot from actual gameplay. This is worst in an action game where you have to react fast and maybe listen to things other people say. D:OS is a turn based game so you never have time pressure, but voices can still be annoying, especially if you hear the same thing all the time.

However there are some good examples for vocal songs during gameplay:
- many tracks from "Beyond good and Evil". One of the few games where I downloaded the soundtrack and listen to it often. The music of bosses (the DomZ) used some alien nonsense lyrics, other tracks used different real world languages.
- The mage tower in the swamp in Realms of Arcadia3. I do not know what they sing (is it latin?), but it creates a great atmoshere. I made a save so I can listen to it whenever I want. I think it was re used for Drakensang, but I like the original version more.
- I think in FF10 the final battle with sin had heavy metal music with lyrics.
- "Still alive" from portal is a great song, but this is the ending, not gameplay.

Maybe there are some more good examples. From those, only the music from RoA3 may fit to D:OS2. It is for a dark dungeon where a mad mage makes experiments to create monsters (half man and half dog) and who has lots of undead as servants. BGE is modern electronic music and FF10 is heavy metal. I like both kinds of music, but they do not fit the typical middle age fantasy game.


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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571859
21/10/15 02:42 PM
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Stabbey Offline
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Alien nonsense lyrics (including latin) are not as big offenders as songs in a language you can understand, because your brain doesn't waste concentration trying to understand the nonsense, it becomes part of the background music.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571870
21/10/15 08:39 PM
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gGeo Offline OP
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Personaly, I disable the music after the first hour in game in keep it so for ever. I usually play once per two weeks for 5-7 hours at once. As long as default game music consist of few tracks, I would hear them all 10 times per game evening. That is hilarious and edge to psycho torture.

On the other side, a song(s) which is connected to certain location, a pub, market, brothel, a maid singing simple song while milking cow, Legion soldiers singing and marching. Those are quite emotional scenes which I would love to see. Maby a singer can change his repertoire based on game progress? Maby you save a boat from burning so he make song about hero? 20 words and some semi generic rhyme makes a lot. In fact in the past, Common people sings for themselves a lot.

Its not about hire an professional symphonic orchestra. Pure amateur singing. A jerk from your Gent's pub with harmonica or guitar will do miracles for few beers.

You in Larian have a poet(s) so he could write few songs. Do you ?:-]

Note: please dont tie default game music and the singing at one volume slider.

Last edited by gGeo; 21/10/15 08:57 PM.
Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571871
21/10/15 08:51 PM
21/10/15 08:51 PM
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vometia Offline

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Originally Posted By: gGeo
You in Larian have a poet(s) so he could write few songs. Do you ?:-]

They have Bellegar! laugh


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571931
23/10/15 12:38 PM
23/10/15 12:38 PM
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Sordak Offline
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i second the OP.
I know alot of people say real music might not fit the gameplay, but i disagree.

For example Morrowinds music very much was that, music. Even the "ambient" ones have an extremley recognizeable melody and it works perfectly.

As for vocal lyrics: the Withcer has shown that this can work and that this can work well.

And for a more ridiculous example: Metal Gear Rising clearly shows that vocal tracks make for awsome bossfights!

Last edited by Sordak; 23/10/15 12:39 PM.
Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #571932
23/10/15 12:48 PM
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Too distracting, would just have music turned off.

However, if you mean "Songs" as in some kind of singing in the music like some of The Witcher 3 tunes then that might work, but if you mean just throw in some Nickelback into the game music library then no.


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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #572030
26/10/15 03:44 PM
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Davood Offline
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ok so im thinking here

recently for AAA titles

FFX13 (1, 2 and 3) games all had tracks with CLEARLY recognizable english lyrics. FFX13-2 was teh weirdest with the jpop and jrap stuff like "so you want to ride my chocobo?" and some of the weird jmetal stuff for bosses.

older game
PS1, chrono cross had various tracks with full vocals, and once again mainly during boss fights.

anyways, it can work, but the music needs to fade or at least be managed if the characters have to speak.

remember tales of xillia?

"FRESH MUTTON" could sometimes, randomly overcome what the characters were saying DURING CUT SCENES.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: vometia] #572034
26/10/15 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Vometia
I'm one of those people who can only concentrate on one thing at a time. Song lyrics mean my concentration will be hijacked. And then I'll get pwned.


Mostly this, but also without Kirill, they will have enough issues with the music. They don't need to be trying something new.


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Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #572056
27/10/15 03:44 AM
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I'm generally wary of vocals for the reasons stated above - plus there's always the possibility of unintended humor/mismatch to what's actually happening during gameplay. (Cinematics don't have that issue.) Gibberish lyrics work as long as they aren't overwhelming everything else; the 'barbarian chorus' during some dragon battles in Skyrim comes to mind.

I may be in a minority here, but I also feel that if Larian is going to try a new musical style then this is probably the time to do it. Kirill had a signature style and it's probably better for any new composer to put their own stamp on things rather than trying to imitate his.

Re: Let music be songs rather then an ambient sounds [Re: gGeo] #572486
28/10/15 03:06 PM
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Few songs in special places could be good. But not all time, it will be anoing.

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