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NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE #585306
13/09/16 03:26 PM
13/09/16 03:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,771
Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Hassat Hunter  Offline OP

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The sad truth. If you're not in the know read these;
http://store.steampowered.com/news/24155/
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/Z7...-count-anymore/
http://steamcommunity.com/discussions/forum/0/350541595120216014/

What does this mean? Well, the following things:
* All of our Kickstarter reviews will be VOID from giving D:OS2 a score, and will be, by default, HIDDEN from users.

Resulting that the reviews that D:OS2 interested people will see will be those of people buying the EA instead of us, which... can lead to very unpredictable results (especially EA and people buying without knowing what they're getting into). Another result would be people unknowing, playing the Kickstarter will make reviews making it appear like a lot of key-givers ("freeloaders") are bought by Larian, since Valve is so nice to clarify that Kickstarter keys are "probably bought by the developer"... thus if the KS backers leave positive reviews, potentially future costumers may turn away from Larian thinking Larian is buying positive reviews with free keys and scamming, and in turn will decide not to support such a company.

All results harming Larian in the short run after the launch, and in the potential future due to this one change.

I would be really sad to see D:OS2's profits (and thus future games like it to be funded) be harmed by this callous action of Valve, but I have no idea how we can prevent harm, and harm it will. This is the first big KS launch after this horrid anti-KS update to Steam.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585323
13/09/16 07:03 PM
13/09/16 07:03 PM
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Neonivek Offline

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It is sad but given the number of games that try to manipulate their scores... I am not really all that mad at Valve.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585327
13/09/16 07:33 PM
13/09/16 07:33 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
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Dark_Ansem Offline

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Dark_Ansem  Offline

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This is valid only for EA? or for the full game?


In-Development: Turn-Based cRPG, late backing OPEN!
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Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585335
13/09/16 09:26 PM
13/09/16 09:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,771
Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Hassat Hunter  Offline OP

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Everything... EA and full are the same game after all.
Our reviews will never count, and seeing how they Valve framed the "keycode user ?" you can pretty much be guaranteed some people will pull the "You're a paid shill" card.

All harming Larian in the process.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585337
13/09/16 10:13 PM
13/09/16 10:13 PM
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NekotTheBrave Offline
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I don't believe that Valve is doing anything. Reviews still count and we can still make reviews. It's just that people can choose to see reviews of people who bought it directly off of steam as opposed to those who got keys and vice-versa. This doesn't really seem that bad.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585339
13/09/16 10:46 PM
13/09/16 10:46 PM
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Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Reviews of kickstart backers do NOT count for the score in the upper right corner of the store. The one most important for quickbuyers, and thus of interest to Larian, especially early on when EA hits or the actual release.

You *can* make reviews, however they are hidden by default until people purposely check an "all games" box. And they have to do this every game, the options don't save. Refresh? It's gone.

Don't forget how they also conviently offhandedly comment in the text holding over the ? that all keycodes are *probably* illegitimate bought keys by the developer. Now imagine people believing that and seeing the larger keycode positive votes of KS backers.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585370
14/09/16 09:10 AM
14/09/16 09:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2015
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Ayvah Offline

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Ayvah  Offline

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This definitely sucks, but the same thing would have happened to the first D:OS, and it still has more than 90% positive reviews, which is extremely impressive. The Kickstarter for D:OS2 was bigger, so this will probably have a bigger impact this time around, but it doesn't seem like the end of the world.

I understand that Steam needs to ensure that reviews are legitimate. One way they do this is by matching the review to a user with a purchased copy. They may require that this happens via their storefront or an authorised reseller so that they can verify the legitimacy of the sale. No one wants a a situation where a developer just hands out free copies of a game to his friends in return for positive reviews.

It's also not clear how much payment Steam is getting paid for these kickstarter copies, given that these are "free keys" provided as a reward to backers. It's completely possible that it was Larian's deliberate choice to classify the keys as "gifts" in order to save money, with the understanding that this would affect our ability to review the game.

Correction: This last possibility is clearly wrong, (now that I've read up on this properly). But I understand Steam's need to clean up reviews.

Last edited by Ayvah; 14/09/16 10:15 AM.
Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585379
14/09/16 11:03 AM
14/09/16 11:03 AM
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Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Hassat Hunter  Offline OP

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It gathered 90% over time... it's launch that's important. Launch that will bring sales. Launch that the Kickstarters make the initial reviews, now ignored and hidden unlike D:OS. Those reviews who bring in more sales. Now they will likely just get accussations of being one of those evil devs who buy positive reviews, how else are Steamstore and CD-key so shifted on the first few days... according to casual gamers.
Launch is important to a game. This change harms Kickstarter-backed launches most. And guess what the first big KS-launch is after this tweak?

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585383
14/09/16 11:48 AM
14/09/16 11:48 AM
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theflightless Offline
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Do you guys not remember what you thought when playing through D:OS1? I don't think the game will need anybody to speak for it.

p.s. You could look at kickstarters as a very biased group, and we definitely are, by a lot. We are the tip of the broad distribution of how much people loved Divinity OS1, pre-console (enhanced edition) release. We only represent 2 or 3 % of the total of people who will buy the game immediately upon release. I bet it tears steam early access up. They have no good games on there. I think access to that market is well worth giving up a biased group of voters.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585396
14/09/16 02:42 PM
14/09/16 02:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,771
Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Hassat Hunter  Offline OP

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Update: No one can review now.
This is not a time you want to release games to the Steam Store smirk
https://www.steamgifts.com/discussion/uBTvW/steam-review-problem#881j1d4

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585397
14/09/16 02:52 PM
14/09/16 02:52 PM
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Sordak Offline
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Early Access isnt a full game thus a review of an early access title is ultimatley pointless. Thats one of the ultimate flaws of early access titles and you should all be aware of that.

So i see no issue with this.

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585410
14/09/16 05:00 PM
14/09/16 05:00 PM
Joined: Apr 2011
Posts: 1,771
Hassat Hunter Offline OP

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Hassat Hunter  Offline OP

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Yes, it's very well known games in Early Access do not need money. EA-devs get no loan. Buildings cost no power. Royalties and subscriptions do not need to be paid. Airliners have special EA-developers fly free packages. As long as a game is in EA-status, it's developer has zero-cost.

Or in reality; They need the launch money. This will reduce the money they gain at EA-launch, meaning less time can be put into finalisation meaning they can work less on the game, and probably have to release it sooner than anticipated, probably premature and rushed.
But yeah, sure, see no issue with that.

@theflightless: So you support Kickstarters being made mouthdead. Apparently some people actually think that's a good thing and I wonder... what the hell people? How insane must you be to dismiss the opinions of one group of people due to where they bought the game. Why could you possibly think only Valve-buyers have the right of an opinion. I can see why Valve think that (It's a dictators wish) but WHY POSSIBLY would a gamer support that?

Re: NOTICE! LARIAN IS BEING SCREWED OVER BY VALVE [Re: Hassat Hunter] #585432
14/09/16 07:39 PM
14/09/16 07:39 PM
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Stranger Offline
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Stranger  Offline
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Maybe they are a little bit. I think the bigger problem is shady developers paying people or giving out keys for positive reviews though.


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