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Arena Options #585981
16/09/16 08:09 PM
16/09/16 08:09 PM
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mbpopolano24 Offline OP

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I hope that there are going to be many more options in the Arena. Examples:

1. More types of AI (basic is not enough).
2. Custom selection of skills and abilities for each Team.
3. More types of match: deathmatch and kill the king are not enough. Ideas can range from classic multiplayer (flags) to kill the boss (huge creature), waves of enemies, co-op against monsters….
4. More maps of course, but more importantly custom maps.
5. Ability to play as monsters.
6. Treasure maps where you try to find treasures while the other team is trying to kill you.

In short, we need to have the option to fight epic battles. As it is now, it is quite simplistic….

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #585994
16/09/16 09:08 PM
16/09/16 09:08 PM
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Wraith367 Offline
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I agree with most of these. Arena mode started off as an afterthought or to test combat, but it could easily be almost as big of a draw as the main campaign.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #585998
16/09/16 09:26 PM
16/09/16 09:26 PM
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Elwyn Offline
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Just as an idea:

I would very much like to create my own arena character and level her up. Each won fight could for example grant a certain amount of XP and after achieving a new level you would get an opportunity to select a new combat skill or a new piece of equipment. Also, is it possible to create new arena maps using the modding tool?

Re: Arena Options [Re: Wraith367] #586019
16/09/16 11:39 PM
16/09/16 11:39 PM
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Stabbey Online content
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Originally Posted By: Wraith367
I agree with most of these. Arena mode started off as an afterthought or to test combat, but it could easily be almost as big of a draw as the main campaign.


I certainly hope not. The more focus which is devoted to that multiplayer mode, the fewer resources go to the single-player campaign. That's just the reality of budget limitations and priorities.

Yes, you can play arena in single-player, but by it's very nature, it isn't deep enough to be a long-lasting interest holder.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #586032
17/09/16 12:21 AM
17/09/16 12:21 AM
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Wellzy4eva Offline

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I expect it to be expanded upon by the modding community, but I agree with Stabbey that unfortunately it's unlikely that the Larian team will dedicate a lot of resources towards Multiplayer.

Re: Arena Options [Re: Elwyn] #586034
17/09/16 12:31 AM
17/09/16 12:31 AM
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Originally Posted By: Elwyn
Just as an idea:

I would very much like to create my own arena character and level her up. Each won fight could for example grant a certain amount of XP and after achieving a new level you would get an opportunity to select a new combat skill or a new piece of equipment. Also, is it possible to create new arena maps using the modding tool?


I remember this game called "Gladius" for the original Xbox, where you fought in arenas in turn-based combat and leveled up your gladiators and stuff. It was fun.

Last edited by CharityDiary; 17/09/16 12:31 AM.
Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #586498
18/09/16 01:08 AM
18/09/16 01:08 AM
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I think there are lots of ways to expand Arena with relatively minimal new coding, taking on any of the existing bosses (maybe levelled up) with a coop group would be awesome, kinda like a Gladiator Arena.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #587434
19/09/16 10:06 PM
19/09/16 10:06 PM
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I respectfully disagree with the notion that the arena doesn't deserve further development because it might take away dev time from single player. When internet and multiplayer first started gaining traction in various genres, most fundamentals of multiplayer gaming developed from "after thought" of games that have very polished single player. Examples: Doom, Warcraft 2, Diablo, Starcraft. It provided said games with an additional depth on top the already decent single player experience, namely a competitive, skill-based environment for players to duke it out against each other. It also prolongs the longevity of the game and expands the potential audience. I'm not saying "just make a half-assed single player slapped on top of multiplayer" like most companies do nowadays. I'm saying Larian should make a great single player game (which DOS2 seems well on its way to do so already) and make the whole package better by adding a great competitive multiplayer on top of that. By the look of things that's exactly what Larian intends to do. We should help them out by giving constructive feedback like what OP is doing here.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #587574
20/09/16 02:26 AM
20/09/16 02:26 AM
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mbpopolano24 Offline OP

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I love the integration between singleplayer and multiplayer in Mordheim. I am hoping that in the end, if not possible now or at launch, the arena in DOS2 can be as significant. Playing arena matches - if well structured - can significantly increase the lifespan of this game and attract more players. It doesn't need to divert their focus from the main campaign. I agree that now the main campaign should be the priority, but I disagree that even the main campaign can be classified as singleplayer (I mostly play it coop anyway).

Ideally you should be able to import your own characters in the arena. Again, look into Mordheim if you want to have a concrete example. I spent so much time in the singleplayer portion of Mordheim mostly to level up my squad and refine my strategies. So much fun.

With DOS 2 engine and mechanics, it would even be so much better than Mordheim. Just a(nother) suggestion.

Re: Arena Options [Re: Elwyn] #587634
20/09/16 05:49 AM
20/09/16 05:49 AM
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Ellary Offline
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Originally Posted By: Elwyn
Just as an idea:

I would very much like to create my own arena character and level her up. Each won fight could for example grant a certain amount of XP and after achieving a new level you would get an opportunity to select a new combat skill or a new piece of equipment. Also, is it possible to create new arena maps using the modding tool?



Love that idea! really glad there is an AI mode so friends can team up against some AI.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #587636
20/09/16 05:52 AM
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Originally Posted By: mbpopolano24
I hope that there are going to be many more options in the Arena. Examples:

1. More types of AI (basic is not enough).
2. Custom selection of skills and abilities for each Team.
3. More types of match: deathmatch and kill the king are not enough. Ideas can range from classic multiplayer (flags) to kill the boss (huge creature), waves of enemies, co-op against monsters….
4. More maps of course, but more importantly custom maps.
5. Ability to play as monsters.
6. Treasure maps where you try to find treasures while the other team is trying to kill you.

In short, we need to have the option to fight epic battles. As it is now, it is quite simplistic….



Arena seems like it can be one of those quick modes when friends don't have much time. I really really like the waves of enemies and bosses idea and the treasure. Is arena able to be done during campaign mode? would be a neat way to level up a tiny bit and gear up.

I know me saying level up will get some fire tossed on it. I get it don't worry the game isn't level scaling, but if the tools will be powerful as I hope they are o.o I am going to try and make it all level scaled.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #588172
21/09/16 01:03 PM
21/09/16 01:03 PM
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JJ_Judge Offline
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Absolutely AGAINST exping and leveling up in the arena, and against full character customization, as that will cause imbalanced builds to break the gameplay.

Re: Arena Options [Re: JJ_Judge] #588209
21/09/16 03:18 PM
21/09/16 03:18 PM
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Gled Offline
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Originally Posted By: JJ_Judge
Absolutely AGAINST (...) full character customization, as that will cause imbalanced builds to break the gameplay.


Hehe it's PvP and that's exactly why it's fun. People breaking gameplay, people just playing other people ideas, people complaining, and players who find the way to think about "outside the box" builds.
You just need PvP skill balance and enough choice of skills to let your players find appropriate answers to any strategy.
Letting more freedom/customization require more work from devs for sure, but it's the royal way to build something really really successful.
Look at DotA: built from senario editor in warcraft3, blizzard gave the tool and players imagination built one of the most played PvP concept since a few years.



Last edited by Gled; 21/09/16 03:22 PM.
Re: Arena Options [Re: Gled] #588237
21/09/16 04:07 PM
21/09/16 04:07 PM
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JJ_Judge Offline
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Originally Posted By: Gled

Look at DotA: built from senario editor in warcraft3, blizzard gave the tool and players imagination built one of the most played PvP concept since a few years.

Dota has predefined heroes with 4 skills (well, most of them) each. And that's the idea why it's so popular and rather balanced, generally. Dota would be broken, if you could mix hero skills. Imagine Traxex getting any additional damage buff and stun, or lich getting an Earthshaker stun, or whatever. So you're precisely missing the point, and Dota 2 is a perfect example of why NOT TO get custom hero creation. Especially considering, that in D:OS2 Arena you control more than one character. For example, I can already say that characters with teleports, stuns, and adrenaline would be imbalanced. And that's aerotheurge and scoundrel, quite close to each other, rogues already have shocking touch anyway. At the same time, fire magic wouldn't be added to the mix at all i think, because who needs fire, when it can be blessed and turned against you in one tick, and when you can get stuns and freezes. Etc.
So heck no, no customizable heroes, onli predefined ones - with a wider selection of them, of couse.

Re: Arena Options [Re: JJ_Judge] #588254
21/09/16 05:01 PM
21/09/16 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: JJ_Judge
Dota has predefined heroes with 4 skills (well, most of them) each. And that's the idea why it's so popular and rather balanced, generally. Dota would be broken, if you could mix hero skills.


You are comparing things that aren't as similar as you are insinuating. In DOTA there are like 100 something heroes to create all different kinds of combinations. There is no need to allow people to create their own because there are so many options, and the creativity comes from combining 5 of those options together against 5 opposing options. So, to take a step back fractally, combining 5 heroes in DOTA to create the most OP combos is very similar to combining 4 skills to create the most OP combos. It is just that combining skills is not necessary because there are so many heroes, it would just create unnecessary confusion.

In this game you only get to combine 2 heroes together. That is not many combinations, not much freedom to be creative and feel smart. In my opinion, if they don't either make 20-30 or more default characters to choose from OR allow people to create their own, this mode will just feel like a tacked on thing that you will play 5 or 10 times and be done with. It will never be a legit part of the game.

I like the idea of being able to create your own characters (at a set level and all that so it is conceivably balanced). But it carries with it the problem that the game has now which is skills are not balanced to begin with. And they don't really have to be because PvE. It also carries with it the problem of the confusion created because you have to know the spells that your opponent has to make the right decisions, so there would need to be a way to see all 24 or however many of them there are which is a lot of information to process.

Re: Arena Options [Re: NinjaWithSpoons] #588289
21/09/16 06:33 PM
21/09/16 06:33 PM
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JJ_Judge Offline
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I said I'm against customizable characters, BUT I'm totally up to a bigger and more diverse character pool, so no, I'm not missing the point wink
IMO it would simply be easier for the devs balance out the pvp aspect with predefined heroes, and use theire coders resources for something more important, than to try to balance out character customization, which is a hell to do.
BTW even now you can combine all 4 characters, so no, not 2 per player smile

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #588352
21/09/16 10:42 PM
21/09/16 10:42 PM
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mbpopolano24 Offline OP

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It's 'entertaining' to see people resort to the 'devs don't have enough resources' argument when they are out of ideas. I don't have any knowledge of Larian resources and neither do you. I know that they have three studios full o talented people, and much smaller studios have done wonders with much less. The game is there; the mechanics are there; the maps are there, and they are already planning to add more. We are asking for options, since Larian actually listen to suggestions. Maybe they will decide against, and that's fine. But people who are saying no just because they don't like it and play the 'too many resources needed' card certainly are not helping.

I like the idea of being able to play quick matches and also like the idea to play long battles that can take even one hour or more (again, look into Mordheim). The idea to level up is fantastic (Mordheim). Also you can use 'points' to assign the relative strength (Mordheim, but pretty much every other games with PvP). Balance is so overrated. I like to play creative matches against the odds. Again, broke record, but in Mordheim you can set up the match 'level' and then go with whatever configuration you like the most. It's not about winning or losing, it's about having fun. With what we have now I had fun for a few days, but at the moment I have no need to go back to the Arena and play the same cards every time....

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #588463
22/09/16 06:50 AM
22/09/16 06:50 AM
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JJ_Judge Offline
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Why do you keep up bringing this Mordheim? It will surely be forgotten by all and everyone quite soon, and, sorry, but it looks like crap, seeing the youtubers playing it, unlike Dota, LOL, Heroes of the Storm etc. And at the moment I see the arena has some potential, and resembles a MOBA in quite many ways, but is even bigger as it is turn based. And instead of investing resources into what'sgoing to be played for a month and abandoned, Larian can do a game, that's gonna gather all turn based tactics lovers. And with resources, don't play blind, D:OS2 was planned for release December 2016, and Sven said, it's not coming earlier than 2017. By the look of things in the EA content, there is actually plenty of things to do, that Larian hadn't done in almost two years D:OS2 has been in development, and that's not only minor bugs and glitches, but some grand mistakes, graphic overhauls etc. So yeah, Larian doesn't have enough resouces for creating a esports-unfriendly game with exping and leveling. And I doubt you yourself will be satisfied with it, once you get pwned a dozen times by a player a couple levels higher, that you got to in matchmaking. Leveling up outside the arena itself and carrying on progress to other matches is ridicoluosly shortseeing, while character creation in a multiplayer pvp arena, based on a singleplayer game, is simply not gonna do any good. I guess you guys aren't much into gamedesign and gamedevelopment, and just wanna rant about "hau it vuld bi kewl tu hav dis!!1". Well, it's your right, I guess. I just hope Larian isn't gonna repeat the mistakes of other devs, that had great ambitions and failed miserable, because of faults in the concept.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #588495
22/09/16 08:29 AM
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Gled Offline
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Guys please let's try to make this discussion a proactive outcome smile some will like full customization, others may not.

They can make both: give you an option to let full customization builds allowed in your lobby OR use only preset characters. Everybody is happy.
Important thing to remember is that more freedom = success. My previous example of Dota is that Icefrog decided to create a pool of characters, but it's thanks to Blizzard developers that were smart enough to let their player base create whatever senario they wanted in warcraft3. More freedom led to greater outcome, so please do not restrain our creativity we can have solutions that fit every needs.

Re: Arena Options [Re: mbpopolano24] #588517
22/09/16 09:37 AM
22/09/16 09:37 AM
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JJ_Judge Offline
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Well then my suggestion would be to divide the full customization from rating/matchmaking games. So "esports" like matches would be only with preset characters (and I repeat, a great pool of them!), but "custom" matches can be done with whatever characters you want.
No offence meant to anybody, I just want to see this game as awesome as possible, and that's why I'm in the suggestion thread wink


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