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Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #587877
20/09/16 06:29 PM
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash

I don't see how crafting and repairing enhance the non-combat experience of the game. Both crafting and repairing are pretty much only useful for combat.


It encourages actually reading the craft books, exploring the item creation for things like sneaking and pick pocketing and luck. Maybe even the dialogue stuff with +Persuasion gear.

It would give player options outside of just leveling and RNG loot. Heck, through in a quest or two that requires it to solve.

While the skills are mainly combat oriented, it helps with pretty much everything. Also, I think it's rewarding to have a different methodology for how a player approaches getting his character ready for combat: one guy might prefer making powerful gear and buying and selling stuff to outfit his group....another might prefer strong abilities. Late game would let you do both or specialize in one while letting you make good headway on the other.

It can only add to the game *shrug* in my opinion, at least

EDIT: Let me just throw this out there, I'm a strong RPG fan...have been for a while. I'm also a fan of Oblivion and Skyrim and doing all the little side quests (ie mining in Mass Effect). Grinding, repition of small tasks, ect doesn't bother me in the least as long as I feel like progress is being made somewhere. At the moment, repair feels like it does nothing but wast time...I'd just like for that time wasted to feel like it was important in some way and exanding on that I can see how it could add complexity. Heck , I can spend 30 min to an hour just buying and selling and crafting in D:OS on every level up without even noticing; it gives me more items I might need or can sell, which means more money, which means I can buy other things I want, and crafting also allows for min-maxing powerful gear

Last edited by aj0413; 20/09/16 06:36 PM.
Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #587885
20/09/16 06:46 PM
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I just wish that repairing gear didn't consume a repair hammer every time :\

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: aj0413] #587889
20/09/16 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted By: aj0413
Originally Posted By: LordCrash

I don't see how crafting and repairing enhance the non-combat experience of the game. Both crafting and repairing are pretty much only useful for combat.

It encourages actually reading the craft books, exploring the item creation for things like sneaking and pick pocketing and luck. Maybe even the dialogue stuff with +Persuasion gear.

That has nothing to do with what was criticized in this thread tbh.

That crafting works with recipes is good.

This thread is about the missing levels for crafting materials and especially about the missing blacksmithing ability that renders repairing pretty much pointless and makes it a chore without any benefit, especially in the manual way it is implemented in the game so far.

Last edited by LordCrash; 20/09/16 07:02 PM.

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Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #587892
20/09/16 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash

That has nothing to do with what was criticized in this thread tbh.

That crafting works with recipes is good.

This thread is about the missing levels for crafting materials and especially about the missing blacksmithing ability that renders repairing pretty much pointless and makes it a chore without any benefit, especially in the manual way it is implemented in the game so far.


Earlier I was just offering how the system could be changed to fix the problem concerning the missing abilities and how repairing could be made significant and then i was following up with why. I honestly fail to see how two seconds of time can be considered a chore though

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #587900
20/09/16 07:37 PM
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I do hope so -

repairing is tiresome - right clicking and clicking repair on every item equipped x 4 characters just SUCKS

However -

if you made blacksmith hammers a consumable item AND you allowed the consumption of the hammer to repair all equipped items to full on all party members - then it would be a resource worth finding and/or buying

tongs could do the same - but for a single character


now on to crafting -


it was the NUMBER ONE disliked mechanic in the game

I just hate having a ton of crap in my inventory and no idea what to do with it - either have recipes drop a lot more frequent or just open up new crafting recipes automatically with each level -

experimentation is so nauseating I don't even do it - I would rather google lists than spend hours getting a message that nothing happens

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: aj0413] #587907
20/09/16 07:51 PM
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Originally Posted By: aj0413
Earlier I was just offering how the system could be changed to fix the problem concerning the missing abilities and how repairing could be made significant and then i was following up with why.

Sure, and Stabbey replied that your suggestion would only make the system needlessly complex and even a bigger chore. It's pretty much micromanagment for the sake of micromanagement with the addition that most people really don't like that their beloved items get ultimately destroyed over time. So I agree with Stabbey.

But you didn't answer my question how repair enhances the non-combat aspects of the game, even with the system you suggested. I don't see it. I love non-combat stuff but I don't think repair is something that makes this aspect better, no matter how it is implemented.

Quote:
I honestly fail to see how two seconds of time can be considered a chore though

Two seconds here, two seconds there, it all sums up, especially since you have to repair every item for every character in your party manually. Why is there no "repair all" button? That would at least make the system less tiresome.

And I honestly fail to see how repair makes the game better and more fun to play in general though. I could live with the compromise in DOS1 but the system in DOS2 is just pointless. But I'd rather have it ditched completely than making it even more tiresome than it is now.

Originally Posted By: magmar
I just hate having a ton of crap in my inventory and no idea what to do with it - either have recipes drop a lot more frequent or just open up new crafting recipes automatically with each level -

experimentation is so nauseating I don't even do it - I would rather google lists than spend hours getting a message that nothing happens

Well, you already hinted the solution: use google if you don't want to experiment or hunt down recipes.

No need to change the system in the game if a list of possible recipes is just one click away in the internet. wink

Last edited by LordCrash; 20/09/16 08:02 PM.

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Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Xiaminou] #587969
20/09/16 11:50 PM
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Originally Posted By: Xiaminou
I don't think Crafting is gone, it's just not implemented yet

Correct; only the basics are in now (creating weapons, potions, etc).

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Raze] #588143
21/09/16 11:01 AM
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Originally Posted By: Raze
Originally Posted By: Xiaminou
I don't think Crafting is gone, it's just not implemented yet

Correct; only the basics are in now (creating weapons, potions, etc).

Let's not forget the mighty Pumpkin Soup.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #588271
21/09/16 05:51 PM
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My biggest gripe with crafting in the first Original Sin, was how incredibly tedious it was to make a new set of equipment whenever you leveled, and how the crafted gear basically made found gear obsolete.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Nivv] #588274
21/09/16 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
My biggest gripe with crafting in the first Original Sin, was how incredibly tedious it was to make a new set of equipment whenever you leveled, and how the crafted gear basically made found gear obsolete.


To be fair you can't win in this situation. People who enjoy crafting will complain that every gear you find is better than what you can craft so spending points on it is useless.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Nivv] #588275
21/09/16 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
My biggest gripe with crafting in the first Original Sin, was how incredibly tedious it was to make a new set of equipment whenever you leveled, and how the crafted gear basically made found gear obsolete.


That's kind of the point? By investing in the skill and taking the time to work with it, you're rewarded with strong items and the ability to upgrade items ??? O.o

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #588280
21/09/16 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: LordCrash

Sure, and Stabbey replied that your suggestion would only make the system needlessly complex and even a bigger chore. It's pretty much micromanagment for the sake of micromanagement with the addition that most people really don't like that their beloved items get ultimately destroyed over time. So I agree with Stabbey.

But you didn't answer my question how repair enhances the non-combat aspects of the game, even with the system you suggested. I don't see it. I love non-combat stuff but I don't think repair is something that makes this aspect better, no matter how it is implemented.


In regards to repair, just making people actually see durability as important and something to keep in mind. It'd at least make people less inclined to bust down doors and chests. I don't know if it'd make the game more fun, but I don't think it'd make it less and I just want conseuences if it's gonna be there at all.

As for micromanagement...well, I like/don''t mind micromanagement *shrug* and I did offer solutions to keep equipment from breaking? NPCs or skill/talent? Seems easy enough to handle to me.

Originally Posted By: LordCrash

Two seconds here, two seconds there, it all sums up, especially since you have to repair every item for every character in your party manually. Why is there no "repair all" button? That would at least make the system less tiresome.

And I honestly fail to see how repair makes the game better and more fun to play in general though. I could live with the compromise in DOS1 but the system in DOS2 is just pointless. But I'd rather have it ditched completely than making it even more tiresome than it is now.


And I do agree a repair all would be nice. Just as a sell all :P

I'm not arguing that as it stands repair is kind of just a time killer or whether or not it makes the game more fun...just that if they want it their it can be improved to actually matter which would be an improvement over it just kinda being there in the background. I can see the appeal from semi-realistic point of few of gear upkeep and discouraging bashing doors and chests but allowing it to be an option.

As for time adding up.....O.o 2 seconds...lets say you do it 1000 times =~ 33 min? Considering these kind of games take many many hours as it is I hardly see it mattering much?

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #588281
21/09/16 06:16 PM
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I didn't get into crafting in the last game. It was a bit too opaque. That said, afaik, there was no way to enchant items which is what I think the ultimate goal of crafting should be in a fantasy game. Like, I totally want to be able to make my own uber staff with chances to cast fireballs and whatnot for "leet" damage. If that's not in the game, I don't see much point to crafting. Repairing I can see, but only as an extension of that mechanic.

So, question: could you do that in the first game?

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: SacredWitness] #588283
21/09/16 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted By: SacredWitness
I didn't get into crafting in the last game. It was a bit too opaque. That said, afaik, there was no way to enchant items which is what I think the ultimate goal of crafting should be in a fantasy game. Like, I totally want to be able to make my own uber staff with chances to cast fireballs and whatnot for "leet" damage. If that's not in the game, I don't see much point to crafting. Repairing I can see, but only as an extension of that mechanic.

So, question: could you do that in the first game?


Crafted gear generally gave the best damage/defenses, you could make set of +5 sneak, over 100 all resist with wearable stuff, immune to slip, +1/2 to any stats and intiative, unique crafted weapons were best in game at level 20, improve damage/defense of loot, creat any spell in game on scroll, create grenades/arrows, so on and so forth. Make and sell stuff for tons of money to buy stuff...

By leverage the crafting system, you could pretty much take a character at any comparable level and make him much more powerful and/or effective in combat. From a min-max perspective it's required to use.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: aj0413] #588286
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Originally Posted By: aj0413
Originally Posted By: Nivv
My biggest gripe with crafting in the first Original Sin, was how incredibly tedious it was to make a new set of equipment whenever you leveled, and how the crafted gear basically made found gear obsolete.


That's kind of the point? By investing in the skill and taking the time to work with it, you're rewarded with strong items and the ability to upgrade items ??? O.o


There should be a balance though. It has, and always will be a ludicrous notion to me that some upstart adventurer and craftsman can immediately have the potential to make equipment better than what has been made by every single other craftsman in the entire history of the game's world, outdoing what could be considered legendary artifacts even.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: aj0413] #588287
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Originally Posted By: aj0413
Crafted gear generally gave the best damage/defenses, you could make set of +5 sneak, over 100 all resist with wearable stuff, immune to slip, +1/2 to any stats and intiative, unique crafted weapons were best in game at level 20, improve damage/defense of loot, creat any spell in game on scroll, create grenades/arrows, so on and so forth. Make and sell stuff for tons of money to buy stuff...

By leverage the crafting system, you could pretty much take a character at any comparable level and make him much more powerful and/or effective in combat. From a min-max perspective it's required to use.


Seems I glossed over an entire aspect to the game. Damn...

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Nivv] #588293
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
There should be a balance though. It has, and always will be a ludicrous notion to me that some upstart adventurer and craftsman can immediately have the potential to make equipment better than what has been made by every single other craftsman in the entire history of the game's world, outdoing what could be considered legendary artifacts even.


To be fair, the OS games have assumed you're far more than some random upstart. In 1 you were literally a divine essence that protected the entire cosmos and even gods and elemental lords yielded to you and recognized you. They seem to be going with a similar theme in this one.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: Nivv] #588298
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Originally Posted By: Nivv
Originally Posted By: aj0413
Originally Posted By: Nivv
My biggest gripe with crafting in the first Original Sin, was how incredibly tedious it was to make a new set of equipment whenever you leveled, and how the crafted gear basically made found gear obsolete.


That's kind of the point? By investing in the skill and taking the time to work with it, you're rewarded with strong items and the ability to upgrade items ??? O.o


There should be a balance though. It has, and always will be a ludicrous notion to me that some upstart adventurer and craftsman can immediately have the potential to make equipment better than what has been made by every single other craftsman in the entire history of the game's world, outdoing what could be considered legendary artifacts even.


Lol and in skyrim, making a million iron daggers lets you make weapons better than anything in all of the lands history.

Game mechanics and realism don't always match up. You can always consider that you're "the One" in the game and thus normality doesn't apply or you could role play being a genius craftsman the world hasnt seen before?

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: aj0413] #588304
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Originally Posted By: aj0413

Lol and in skyrim, making a million iron daggers lets you make weapons better than anything in all of the lands history.

Game mechanics and realism don't always match up. You can always consider that you're "the One" in the game and thus normality doesn't apply or you could role play being a genius craftsman the world hasnt seen before?


Using Skyrim as an example doesn't do you many favors, it was stupid in that game too. If you can make for yourself the best gear in the game, then what is the damn point of solving puzzles or beating enemies besides to simply progress through the story? The reward portion for doing those things is completely negated and made irrelevant. You might as well not have those in the game at all, and force everyone to craft.

Re: What happened to blacksmithing and crafting? [Re: LordCrash] #588400
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I really just wanted to drop my two cents:

Please remove 'repair'. As is it adds nothing, changing it is as likely to piss people off as make them happy. So just take it and throw it away, too much work too little fun.

Please make crafting magistically fabulous. I loved crafting equipment and spells in D:OS and have loved it in every RPG. However, stop giving me so many bloody cooking items/recipes and otherwise dead end stops. To twist the above skyrim example - nobody wanted to make 1000 daggers to be an awesome craftsman - they just wanted to make the dragon bone armor at the end. So let me craft awesome things, but don't make me fiddle with a+b=c, c+a=d, d+b = pie.... that i can buy and doesn't actually do much. Seriously cooking was intractably terrible in OS

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