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#600531 25/02/17 03:20 PM
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Which abilities should be changed to make the game more balanced?

This my my personal list:
- Rage should be self only in any case. Once this happens, we can see if other changes are neccesssary.
- crippling strike should only hit a single target
- Warlord should be limited to a certain amount of AP per turn. Maybe 2AP for the first kill, 1AP for the second and nothing more
- haste should cost 2 AP. It gives you 3AP over 3 turns and a movement bonus, so it is very strong
- dragons blaze (lizard special) is useless. At lv7 it causes 15-16 fire damage, the searing daggers or fireballs of my lv7 lizard mage cause 3 or 4 times more damage.
- flesh sacrifice (elven special) is very overpowered. At least is should cost some AP.


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- For Warlord, "per turn" means per turn in combat right, not X times for the entire combat? I could support that change if so.

- I agree that the Lizard special is bad, not just for the low damage, but because it is super-specialized for those who put points into fire - and apparently since it does damage that low even if you ARE putting points into fire, that's definitely bad. I will continue to push for the Shed Skin idea which would be useful for all class archtypes. (Shed Skin removes all buffs and debuffs immediately, and gives you a temporary minor penalty to CON for 1-2 turns. It would cost 0-1 AP and have a 3-5 turn cooldown.)


- Hmmm... If Flesh Sacrifice gave you 1 AP but cost 1 AP it would essentially be free, BUT it wouldn't give you an additional AP on top, so that would reduce its power. Not a bad change.

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-Rage I think is a cause of most of the issues. I like the solution of it applying silenced status. Definitely self-cast only. If the solution of being unable to use skills when enraged is used resistance penalty becomes unnecessary.
-Crippling blow just deals too much damage. I think most of it should be armor damage, similar to chloroform. Then it'll be a powerful armor breaking skill not a better whirlwind it currently is.
-Warlord is only op because (teleports)+rage+2-handers+adrenalin(+haste+flesh sacrifice)+crippling blow+whirlwind. Rage being the worst. So nerfing rage would make it a good but not op talent.
-2AP might be too much considering that currently most fights are decided turn 2. 1AP is fine.
-Agree
-Same as warlord, rage is the main issue. If rage is nerfed it'll be fine. I'd rather see other specials buffed. Especially lizards. Encourage should scale with level. Can't say anything about dwarves.

Some additional ideas:
-Level 2 skills should require 2 points in a school, level 3 - 3 points and so on. Tired of certain skills being a must on every build.
-Burn my eyes and maybe haste should be level 2 skills. They are that good.
-Teleport should be a level 3 skill. Same for tactical retreat.
-Teleport should probably require 2AP to use.
-Every skill in necromancy needs a buff.
-Backstabber talent should be removed. Make it into daggers innate ability.
-There are currently very few talents that are good. Warlord, Pawn, Far out Man, probably Mnemonic, Pet Pal, Opportunist, One Man Army and Savage Sortilege. Talents that might be worth picking with certain playstyles are Comeback Kid, Duck Duck Goose, Escapist and maybe Glass Cannon, Guerilla and Zombie. All the other talents aren't worth a talent point and therefore must be buffed.

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3 points for level 3 would not be enough. In D:OS1 level 3 needed 6 points, but those level 3 skills in D:OS2 are more like level 5 from D:OS1, wich would afford 15 points. At least so far there seem to be only 3 levels for skills in D:OS2 so the needed points should be ajusted to how Larian thinks the skills with be leveled over the duration of the game where you will have a max level of 30, if I remember correctly.

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I don't remember any op non-source level 3 skills. And source skills being op is fine because they require source points to use.

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The only known level 3 non-source skills was Summon Fire Elemental. But the skill did only summon a placeholder and therefore got removed for the time being.

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This is the updated version, after reading everything above:

- Rage is self only. Maybe rage also mutes the char, but there is no elemental resistence penalty.
- Crippling strike is single target only. Maybe reduce cost to 1 AP or increase damage. (CS was a strong single target attack in D:OS1. I see no reason to change this.)
- Warlord gives 2AP for first kill and one AP for second kill per turn, no more than 3AP per turn and char (as above)
- haste and flesh sacrifice cost 1AP
- dragons blaze should be replaced with shed skin (1AP, 6 turns cooldown, removes all status effects (positive and negative) except those caused by equipped items (like curse from braccus ring), not useful against hard CC because you must be able to activate it)


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Originally Posted by Alanta

Some additional ideas:
-Level 2 skills should require 2 points in a school, level 3 - 3 points and so on. Tired of certain skills being a must on every build.
Skills not hard caped by a level skill bring options in builds. So it should stay. However, some price should be set.
Skill level 1 requires 1 memory slot
Skill level 2 requires 2 memory slots
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Its ok but lets add :
Skills level 2 require 3 memory slots when your school level is 1
eg. you need to spend memory slots to reach skill level. Memory slot requirement is higher when the skill is over-leveled. This tax could be 1-2 slots extra. e.g. With 1 point in a school I can learn 5th level skill for :
5 (5th level)+4 (over level tax)= 9 memory slots.
That way I can have a One shot mage. Such system opens nice variation for builders. Also AI 2.0 can utilize a nasty group tactic which covers a one shot mage.

Other think.
A barrier to open another school need to be set.
1. option
First skill point in a school costs 2 points
e.g. mage with 3 schools pays 3 skill points tax for multi classing
2. option more steep
opening first school costs 1 point
opening second school costs 2 points
opening thirdth school costs 3 points
e.g. mage with 3 schools pays 3 skill points tax for multi classing

Both those rules applied means I can have a mage with a point in 3 schools which allows me to reach One top spell of each school which eats all my mem-slots. Or I can have a specialist of 5 skills levels in one school with plenty skill of his area. Or any combination between.
**************
**************

Cripple
- One target skill
- make it complementary to Mute. Mute disables spells (Int based skills) Cripple disables physical skills (Str/Dex based skills)

Bleed
- visual blood floor shows only when bleed status is set
- bleed status is set by a special skill
- 50% chance to set 2 turn bleed by crit attack of two handed weapon or crossbow

Ranged weapons
- bows +2m range to crossbows. MaxRange of spells = crossbow. Bow should has biggest range to make a ranger as antimage solution.
- crossbows can point blank shot, bow provoke attack of opportunity
- Crossbows has double action handling. Loading for 2 AP and shooting for 1AP. If a crossbow is in hands on combat start it can shoot for 1AP then load or change weapon.


Touch spells
- Touch spells always use touch range. Regardless of Far out man. Maybe a Polymorf can make 4m hands skill.

Equip Items
- only weapons slots are available in combat. All other slots are not changeable in combat. Change your shoes when an ogre beats you means instant death. So, ... you dont want to do that.

MA/PA system stinks.

Last edited by gGeo; 02/03/17 04:03 PM.
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Originally Posted by gGeo
Skills not hard caped by a level skill bring options in builds. So it should stay. However, some price should be set.
Skill level 1 requires 1 memory slot
Skill level 2 requires 2 memory slots
--------------------------------------
Its ok but lets add :
Skills level 2 require 3 memory slots when your school level is 1
eg. you need to spend memory slots to reach skill level. Memory slot requirement is higher when the skill is over-leveled. This tax could be 1-2 slots extra. e.g. With 1 point in a school I can learn 5th level skill for :
5 (5th level)+4 (over level tax)= 9 memory slots.
That way I can have a One shot mage. Such system opens nice variation for builders. Also AI 2.0 can utilize a nasty group tactic which covers a one shot mage.


I guess that sounds okay.

Quote
Other think.
A barrier to open another school need to be set.
1. option
First skill point in a school costs 2 points
e.g. mage with 3 schools pays 3 skill points tax for multi classing
2. option more steep
opening first school costs 1 point
opening second school costs 2 points
opening thirdth school costs 3 points
e.g. mage with 3 schools pays 3 skill points tax for multi classing


Ugh, no. Bad idea especially for mages where multi-classing is required.

Quote
Cripple
- One target skill
- make it complementary to Mute. Mute disables spells (Int based skills) Cripple disables physical skills (Str/Dex based skills)


That sounds fine.

Quote
Bleed
- visual blood floor shows only when bleed status is set
- bleed status is set by a special skill
- 50% chance to set 2 turn bleed by crit attack of two handed weapon or crossbow


The first two sound fine, presuming that special skill is defined as any existing skill which causes bleed, and not a totally new skill and removing bleed from all other skills. I guess the third sounds okayish.


Quote
Ranged weapons
- bows +2m range to crossbows. MaxRange of spells = crossbow. Bow should has biggest range to make a ranger as antimage solution.
- crossbows can point blank shot, bow provoke attack of opportunity
- Crossbows has double action handling. Loading for 2 AP and shooting for 1AP. If a crossbow is in hands on combat start it can shoot for 1AP then load or change weapon.


Something about these changes bothers me, but I'm not sure why I don't like them right now. Maybe I'll respond after I figure it out.


Quote
Touch spells
- Touch spells always use touch range. Regardless of Far out man.


No. Get over your silly grudge against Far Out Man increasing the range of touch spells.


Quote
Equip Items
- only weapons slots are available in combat. All other slots are not changeable in combat. Change your shoes when an ogre beats you means instant death. So, ... you dont want to do that.


What's the point? Changing equipment in combat costs 2 AP per item, right? Isn't that enough of a penalty?


Quote

MA/PA system stinks.


Pretty much everyone acknowledges that it has flaws, but that doesn't help solve them unless there are ideas. Not that it's easy to come up with ideas, I haven't suggested any because I can't think of any good changes myself.

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There were quite some topics about improving the armor system.

But even if Larian is reading, we never get really ideas, if they are even interested or wich suggestions appeal most to them. That's what I kind of miss here, and which makes it hard keeping suggestions productive. ^^


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