Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - Game Master GM Mode absolutely needs to allow scripting

Edit: It appears there may have been a miscommunication and scripts written within the editor should work in the GM mode. Character and item scripts should also work fine. So apologies if I made a big deal out of a non-issue, but it was a bit confusing what I was hearing from Larian. To clarify, I don't expect to be able to script within the GM mode itself, but to make scripts in the editor that work within GM mode, and it appears that should work.


I posted something like this on the steam forums, but wanted to start a discussion here. From what I've gathered from various comments by Swen and others at Larian, there will be absolutely no scripting in GM mode, not even simple things like in-level transition points like a ladder to a basement.

If this is true, this is a huge disappointment. Scripting opens up so many things, from cool scenes, to atmospheric things like a day/night cycle, to fundamental gameplay changes that would be difficult, extremely tedious, or outright impossible for the GM to replicate manually.

It is unclear if this scripting block includes character scripts as well. If it does, that means my bard class or any other scripted custom skills won't work. At the very least, character scripts should be usable.

The argument I hear is basically "The GM should always be in control, and scripts take away control from the GM." My answers:

1. That's poor scripting for a GM campaign. The scripter should always give the GM either the ability to interrupt the script, or choose when to enable it. For example, say you script a scene of a lone wolf standing in the road spotting you, then running back to his other wolves, who then charge you collectively and take up various positions around you.

The scripter should give the GM some kind of object in their inventory they could activate to trigger the wolf assault. A GM would not be able to have a group of wolves collectively charge and take up positions in a simultaneous way, since I think the GM can only control one NPC at once. It's just not going to have the cool factor.

This way, the GM always has this cool event in his pocket to throw out. But if the players succeed in calming the wolf and befriending it, or some other solution, the GM doesn't have to make the wolves attack. There is plenty of room for scripting epic boss fights and the like which are just not going to have the same smoothness or atmosphere if the GM manually does every thing.

2. There is plenty of room for automating things for GMs. Being a GM takes a lot of multi-tasking, and if you have certain things that are automated (say, a ladder transition to a one-room basement), that can help a lot. Again, proper scripting will let the GM keep control. And as above, something like managing a day-night cycle as a GM would probably be possible as a GM, but very tedious. And again, a good scripter would give the GM a way to pause the cycle, slow down transition time, etc.

3. "If the GM has scripted events, he'll want to push the players towards these things." True, but that has been the case since day 1 of tabletop. You prepare an awesome story with cool quests and stuff, and the players want to do something completely different. It is up to the group to find a common ground in not pissing off their GM too much with random shenanigans, and the GM adapting to player decisions.


Now, maybe there is some technical limitations to adding scripting to a GM mode. I can't imagine exactly why, since it's the same engine and everything, but this seems like it would be a valuable use of time to enable it if there's technical barriers.

However, it seems to me that it was a purposeful decision to disable scripting. I can understand the argument, and I can imagine that through testing Larian found that scripts could sometimes get in the way. But I think GMs and designers can learn to adapt to using scripts. The default and most common option will surely be a scriptless game. But the key is choice.

It really seems like a shortsighted view of GM mode to nix all scripting. Give players and GMs the option instead of imposing massive limitations. The whole point of this kind of integration of a video game and a game master mode is there's a balance of automation, visual representation, and adaptability. You don't want this to be another SCL, where people discover huge roadblocks to designing campaigns they want right away. You want people to be impressed by the plethora of options for designing a campaign, rather than disappointed by limitations.

Hope you consider my arguments, Larianites. If this is a post-release change, that's fine. Thanks for reading.

I wish I had your way with words.
I could not agree more, and that includes just about everything I did not quote.

Right on.

I think you are confusing things.

GM Mode (Realtime Game Master Mode) -- No "scripting."

Campaign Tools -- Scripting, Terrain Editing, etc., etc.


So, no -- no "on-the-fly" scripting in GM mode.

Now, if there is no scripting (or at least event/trigger handling) in Campaign Tools -- THEN we have issues.

Thanks, glad my college had some benefit. :P



I'm not talking about on-the-fly scripting. I'm saying scripting stuff in the editor, and importing that into the GM mode. Ideally, the scripter will script in ways for the GM to activate the scripts in game, e.g., by giving him specific items he can have in his GM bag that he can "use" to activate a script (assuming the GM can "use" an item.) Scripting in the editor will be possible, but Swen and others seem to implying that anything you import from the editor into the GM mode won't keep the scripts, and this is an intentional design decision. This is what I have a problem with.

Indeed.
This was my original question at steam:
"If I create a level in the editor with a house that has stairs that teleport to the basement built on the same level as the house, will the teleport still work in GM mode?"

And the answer by michael_larian was :
"Technically, it would be possible. However, that is more like scripting and will limit some tools and possibilities, so we might not add it."

As it seems to be technically possible we can only hope they change their mind and allow for at least some basic scripts to function in GM mode.

Uggh, I just pre-ordered the game last night, hearing this is disappointing but not a deal breaker.

Maybe it will come.

I would be surprised if GM mode did not allow at least character scripting. As Baardvaark mentioned, if there is no scripting, GM mode with most mods (especially large overhauls like Epic Encounters) would be impossible. I imagine that a great deal of fun in GM mode would be through interesting campaigns with unique features that are only borne from scripting.

Well that IS slightly worrisome then.

If I create a "standalone" campaign filled with scripting to trigger traps, lighting, special effects, encounters, discoveries, ALL manor of things and those scripts are "disabled" or stripped out in GM mode -- it will virtually destroy such a campaign and make it nearly impossible to do in GM mode.

Rather than "enhancing" a campaign, I would be relegated to remembering and attempting to re-create every special event in real time.

Sure would be nice if some DETAILED information and/or documentation would become available SOON.

Can you imagine how dead an area will look when all NPCs in the street or the marketsquare, the cows in the meadow etc. stand around dead like statues without a wander script?

I guess a lot of it comes down to how the game handles it: in Oblivion, for example, characters could be given an extremely basic default package and would variously wander about exploring, resting, eating, fidgeting, talking etc; and then I'm contrasting that with the much later Inquisition where so many characters stand rooted to the spot forever, gesticulating slightly if you're lucky, and it seems so dead in comparison. Which seemed like quite a backwards step compared to what went before.

On the other hand, as a modder I'm guilty of creating really excessively complex and intricate scripts for random and unimportant characters who 90+% of players would probably never notice regardless of what they were or weren't doing.

I admit I've no idea how D:OS2 will handle characters by default. Hopefully more the former than the latter.

Right now I am completely confused.
From steam

If that is true then why is the answer to this question:

a no?

Larian, please take away the confusion and tell us exactly what we can do in the editor that will still work in game master mode.

Edit:
I just had a reply on this on steam :
And "same level area transitions" and basically everything else you do in the editor should still work when used in GM mode.
I am very happy now.

Well it looks like it may have just been some miscommunication and maybe some over-interpretation of various statements, but it does appear that scripting within the editor will hold when played in the GM mode. I never expected scripting within the GM mode itself (though as explained above, a scripter should give simple tools for the GM to alter scripts), but that seems to be what the discussion was about. Here's Michael's response:



He also said character/item scripts should work fine, so that's a major relief as well. It would be nice to hear one more clarification, but I'm pretty satisfied that scripting within the editor will work in the GM mode now.

And what is it?

I guess I meant just another confirmation that yes, scripting done through the editor will work perfectly fine in the GM mode and there aren't any sort of limits like that. Thanks!

Also thanks for the plug on twitter :P

Oh I see.
Well, happy to see happy customers