Larian Studios Forums Divinity: Original Sin 2 Divinity - Original Sin 2 - General Teleport: Analysis and Longterm Health of the Game

Teleport is overpowered. Nobody really needs to say this. The number of ways you can cheese fights with just this one little ability is both amazing and horrifying from a game play perspective. But talking about how overpowered it is isn't the point I'm trying to make:

I'm afraid the game is starting to be balanced around Teleport. One of the fights in the alpha scares me the most. Most of you have probably seen it. The final fight on the boat with Hammer. You're level 8-9 at best, most of the enemies are levels 12-13. The way the game's stats work, that fight should be unwinnable in the best of cases. Except... Teleport. You just spam this spell and any scrolls you have and all enemies just stare angrily at you from a mast about 8 feet off the ground. "Curses!" they shout.

And this is my fear. When a singular ability becomes the focus of a game, maybe it's time we look at changing it. But... What makes Teleport so strong that it needs to be picked up on every character?
-The damage? It's not bad.
-The power of repositioning your enemy? It can be good.
-The range of the spell. This is probably the issue.

Teleport has a massive range. This is by design. But that design choice, when combined with Far Out Man, can create some unintended interactions.

From my experience, I simply cannot play the game without Teleport. The game almost demands it. No ability should be mandatory.

Nerfing the range will mean needing to redesign and replace many hidden treasure nooks, as well as the Gawin quest, which would become impossible to complete.

I think an easy solution to nerfing teleport would be to give more enemies the opportunity to fortify themselves (fortify blocks teleportation). Though, for all we know, enemies may utilize more buffs in tactical mode, so this may not be an issue at release.

True, Fortify does counter it. I just want to see some key enemies be fortified constantly (Some enemies just make no sense that you can teleport them.)

I guess nerfing the range isn't the best, but then how do we deal with the obvious power creep that teleport is having?

Other than the Gawin quest, I think anything you can access with teleport you can get to with a self-teleport skill. Slightly reducing the teleport range and making the gap to teleport Gawin a little smaller wouldn't be too much work I don't think. A simple nerf could be that teleport doesn't benefit from high range, which is often what really pushes it over the edge though that's a bit inconsistent if just that one spell can't work like that. Or just making it 2 AP would help. More teleport immunity enemies + self-teleports or other ways to counter teleports for enemies (like netherswap) as well. Plus at least an aeorothurge 2 requirement. I'm tactician mode will give enemies various tools to deal with teleport. I think several changes are in order.

I don't think the game is being balanced around teleport, but teleport does trivialize many situations. Nevermind the fact you get teleport for free on one character with the gloves

I mean, the thing that terrifies me is how many "Bosses" can be cheesed by repeatedly teleporting them out of range and making them waste precious AP on moving back into range. This can be especially abusive if the boss is melee.

I do agree on increasing the AP cost. 3 AP might not even be that crazy of a cost. The cooldown could also get nerfed, but by the time the cooldown rolls back around, the fight is typically over. Not to mention the new Shapeshifter skill makes cooldowns largely meaningless.

I just have no idea how to fix this ability without changing large portions of the game, which isn't feasible. It's just WAY too much of a cure-all. Enemies bothering you? Teleport them next to your fighter with opp strike. Need to cheese a fight? Teleport an oil barrel into a small patch of fire by the boss and watch the damage numbers explode. Need to exploit that small edge that can't be reached without teleport and cheese melee enemies? Etc etc.

I'd be willing to go up to an AP cost of 4 or even 5 for Teleport.

While balance wise that miiiight be appropriate (less so because enemies often have self-teleports... albiet the AI is rock stupid with it)...

In terms of player expectation it would be a let down to charge a really long spell for a little damage and shifting someone 8 meters... with a little light show.

I said I'd be willing go up to an AP cost of 4 or 5. I did NOT say "AP cost of 4 or 5 AND reduce the range to 8 meters".

Isn't the main complaint about Teleport is that it is too powerful in combat?

Teleport on its own isn't THAT bad.

4 players with teleport is where you hit issues unfortunately.

Yet the solution isn't to raise the AP to 4 or 5. It is anticlimactic for players.

Anything above 3 should be reserved for truly battle warping effects.

Don't know if there's even an internal way of tracking it, but what if teleport's AP cost and success rate was made to scale based on factors, like let's say relative level of the target vs the level of the caster/caster's magic stats, or vs weight of the target vs caster's relevant magic stats? Besides that, the easiest solution is simply making certain things immune to teleporting, but that's kind of a heavy handed choice in many cases.

I feel as if the solution to this is fairly simple. When teleport is used on an actor, a status affect is placed on them known as "rift sickness" or something of the like. The status would grant immunity or high resistance against teleportation magic for (insert number here) turns. Or perhaps even state that it can only be used on an actor once per combat.

Honestly the value of the ability for ap spent is way higher than any other ability we have access too at the moment. There is never a point in the game where taking teleport over some other option is a poor choice. This alone should be indicative of it's absurd strength both in combat and out.

In it's current state if you had to invest quite a ways into aerothurge to get it then it might be fine, however if it were to remain low level honestly it would still be too good at a quarter of the current teleport distance. This might be an interesting chance to have utility values scale with attribute level. Having the teleport skill get distance scaling based on aerothurge level for example.

Teleport has high value in combat, like oil, because it is crowd control that ignores magic armor. It has high value out of combat for reaching things. If anything, the cooldown should be nerfed - but this would punish any team that isn't using it on every player. This kind of dilemma is what makes me miss the cooldown reduction from high int in DOS1.

This is really the heart of it. If you gave me a stun spell that ignored either armor, we'd be having this same discussion of "it's OP" "you can rotate it on 4 characters and cheese" etc.

If you made magic (or physical, idc which) block it, it'd retain a lot of its uses, while not being OP. You wouldn't even need to increase the AP cost. The game is littered with 1 AP spells that are incredible ... once you remove the armor that blocks them.

Have magic armor blocks teleport. Add 1 to the AP cost. Something like that might help. Or five it a chance to miss based on your int score compared to their finess.

Fights can easily be made trivial with teleport. At least in early access. I'm both fights with shriekers I just ported them on a ledge and they did nothing.

Adding 1 AP to the cost in addition to the armor blocking is too punishing IMO. When armor is stripped, that fight is about over. It's a big part of why shackles of pain is so weak outside of high hp targets. It's why 2ap decay/restoration is practically a coup de grace. For 2 AP you could port ... or just CC with a 1 ap move and continue. Most 2 AP moves finish a health bar, not prolong a fight.

If you're teleporting for 1AP after armor is stripped, you're either on the ropes, the target is mid-high health (think "elite" target), or you're just grouping into an AoE to smoothly transition into your next target. Those are all solid and balanced areas for it IMO.

Even on an ally, through armor, I think 1ap is fair. Lots of mobility spells cost 1-2 AP. At 1ap, it's on par most mobility spells; cloak and dagger, tactical retreat which gives haste, phoenix drop which gives fire immunity, bull rush which can knock down, wings which technically cost 1 to initiate, but is a cheap 1 cost after that for 4 rapid movements with no CD. At 1ap, teleport becomes a damaging mobility spell on an ally that can be used out of their turn and not on yourself. With armor blocking it (against enemies), it likewise falls in line with other CC/damage spells.

This also applies in no small part to netherswap. I am surprised more don't mention it, but it's similarly effective. Taking highground from an enemy, grouping enemies into AoE, and getting people out of a bad situation - all without even damaging your allies like teleport. I'd argue it's twice the bang for the buck in most cases beyond the first and last round of combat.

I love these two spells, but the fact they're the foundation of almost every single fight I'm in, in every play through, is telling.

Teleport is not overpowered. It already has a high cost and the damage reflects this. The truth is you need a skill like Teleport in this game, to let the player really utilize the terrain effects, tactics etc. to their own imagination. Nerfing Teleport is like nerfing fun.

Today I learned one AP is a high cost. The damage of the ability is comparable to single target damage abilities but teleport also has extreme utility and can also be used as an aoe. This isn't even factoring its short 3 turn cooldown in comparison to the longer cooldowns on many of the other abilities which don't even begin to hold a candle to the impact teleport brings to a fight. It stops being tactical when the move is an obvious go to in any situation. The move is so strong that the teleport gloves are still on my characters in combat at level 8. You're fun diminishes my fun, leaving teleport the way it is makes too many things in this game trivial.

I think Kelsier means 1ap for such low damage is a high cost.

I think this thread is pretty consistent in that the damage isn't even a factor here. It's the extreme utility the spells brings in its current state.