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Summoning is limited #614009
18/09/17 12:08 AM
18/09/17 12:08 AM
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DeuxGzuis Offline OP
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DeuxGzuis  Offline OP
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Okay, a class specialized in Summoning but is limited to only 1 summon.

I was trying a Summon + Necromancer build, but my buffed incarnate instantly disappeared the moment i summoned the Bloated Corpse.

If you're gonna limit the summons number, at least make that you can only summon 1 from EACH SKILL LINE(Like Necromancer, Summon, even Geo can summon) and not Limit the entire game to 1 summon at a time .

Ex: If you have skills in Necromancer/Summon
You should be able to at least summon 1 Bloated Corpse and a Incarnate.

At least make it so when you reach lvl 10 in Summoning you can summon 2 creatures at the same time instead of only 1.

The skill line is called NECROMANCER, but i still didn't find a skill to Revive a Dead enemy to fight for me.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614091
18/09/17 02:38 AM
18/09/17 02:38 AM
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Undesirable Offline
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Undesirable  Offline
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Really? One summoned creature even when you have gone to the trouble of leveling up other skill lines? That's pretty bad. You can spam elemental totems, though. I think they should nerf elemental totems to 2 max per character and allow you to summon one creature per school of magic as you said. Problem is, at the moment you can rush summoning with Lone wolf (Summoning 10 on two characters at level 5?) and offset the lack of characters with multitudes of totems, plus give your characters tons of CON and WIT instead so they're also meat shields that run away to let their totems do the work.


Re: Summoning is limited [Re: Undesirable] #614093
18/09/17 02:46 AM
18/09/17 02:46 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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Neonivek  Offline

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Having multiple summons as a summoner allows you to get new summons in the middle of battle or other juicy combos.

It was the same way in the first game, then again summons were a lot more immediately powerful in that.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614184
18/09/17 05:29 AM
18/09/17 05:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 61
Austria
FadeToBlack Offline

journeyman
FadeToBlack  Offline

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Austria
Problem is, you have a high cool down on the one incarnate. It is dumb if you have summoning + necro that you can't have both. I tried to summon the bloated corpse and my incarnate disappeared. Also why can't you infuse other summons. Half of the skills are bound to the incarnate but if it is killed soon you can't do anything, only spam totems. And the totems are instakilled with one attack.

Other thing what is dumb, skill crafting only works if you combine one elemental with another. WHY. So everybody has to give one or two points into a skill line he doesn't want? I only have one character that had warfare and earth magic. Necro+Summoning would have get a really cool skill for sure.

Last edited by FadeToBlack; 18/09/17 11:41 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: FadeToBlack] #614186
18/09/17 05:31 AM
18/09/17 05:31 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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I think the biggest flaw is that in order to add this new Summoner tree they had to weaken all the other summons.

So if you want a great summon you need to go into the summoner tree... but if you hit the summoner tree then eventually your incarnate will be flat out better than any summon (as it already is)

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614290
18/09/17 08:05 AM
18/09/17 08:05 AM
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TsunAmik Offline
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Yeah, I liked summons variety from DOS1, picking the right summon at right time, and having multiple of them from different schools...

here its problem that you have specifically spec into summoning for it to be really good and waste your memory slots with buffs (without buffs its pretty useless). This makes summoning bit of all or nothing school, because it is really, really strong as main spec, and not really that strong when sidelaning it - its just not worth 3-5 AP just to create+buff your mediocre incarnate unless you have really high summoning skill.

Also not able to pick targets for your totems is absolutely bullshit

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614367
18/09/17 09:33 AM
18/09/17 09:33 AM
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Adrianna Offline
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Adrianna  Offline
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yeah but a maxed out incarnate is a fking monster..

i have a summoner/necro/poly build with max rank summoning and my summon has more health and armor than my entire party... and can handle its own in a fight.. its like adding an additional character to the fight... i assume thats why they dont let you have more than one at once.. because of how powerful the incarnate is when you reach level 10 summoning and it becomes the champion incarnate.

to put it into perspective.. me and my summon managed to completely wipe my own team during the arena fight even with the 3 of them teaming up on me my summon tore their armor off in a single strike then knocked them all down with battering ram.. giving me a huge headstart in the fight.

they were all at half hp-ish before they even got their first turn (cus i invested heavily in wits to always go first to get my incarnate out)

Last edited by Adrianna; 18/09/17 09:38 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614402
18/09/17 10:05 AM
18/09/17 10:05 AM
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geala Offline
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geala  Offline
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I don't see any problem in the design that you have to invest points into Summoner to be an effective ... summoner.

What is bad design is that you cannot summon the weaker entities from other schools if you have the incarnate from Summoner. I don't understand it.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614439
18/09/17 10:41 AM
18/09/17 10:41 AM
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Adrianna Offline
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Adrianna  Offline
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Because it would be too overpowered combined with a max level incarnate... that is why... the incarnate at max level is like having a 5th party member... if you could have other summons around in addition to that there wouldnt even be a need for the rest of your party youd just solo everything...

right now.. my summoner kills most enemies by itself with just its summon and totems... if you added the other summons to that it would be insane...

me and my summon killed more total enemies in most fights.. than a adrenaline/flesh sacrifice using rogue we have in our multiplayer party...

the 2 of us together is already stronger than anyone else on the team... and you want to add more pets to that? i understand why they dont allow that.

Last edited by Adrianna; 18/09/17 10:44 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614451
18/09/17 10:57 AM
18/09/17 10:57 AM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 60
South Africa
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NuttiKrust Offline
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South Africa
Hi,

I found this out last night; and was a little miffed by it, truth be told.
However, my "work-around" is to use BC as a backup in case my Inc* dies. Has been working out well thus far.

I have to admit though; I'd like to have multiple summons.

~NuttiKrust



* What's the short-hand for Incarnate? I? Inc? ICNRT?

Last edited by NuttiKrust; 18/09/17 11:12 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614458
18/09/17 11:01 AM
18/09/17 11:01 AM
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geala Offline
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@ Adrianna: But then, what if you have it on different chars? As it is in my group. My main is necro and Lohse is summoner, and the funny little incarnate and the funny balloon blob from Necromancer crawl around at the same time.

They could have it easily solved by denying any Summoner stats increases to summons from other schools.

Last edited by geala; 18/09/17 11:02 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: geala] #614468
18/09/17 11:07 AM
18/09/17 11:07 AM
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Adrianna Offline
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Adrianna  Offline
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Originally Posted By: geala
@ Adrianna: But then, what if you have it on different chars? As it is in my group. My main is necro and Lohse is summoner, and the funny little incarnate and the funny balloon blob from Necromancer crawl around at the same time.

They could have it easily solved by denying any Summoner stats increases to summons from other schools.


if you havent already get your summoning to level 10 and come back to me... at level 9.. it was a piece of trash... at level 10 summoning it could solo the entire encounter by itself... and i would hardly call it a "funny little incarnate" after level 10 when its like 3x the size of your characters and taller than most ladders..

Last edited by Adrianna; 18/09/17 11:08 AM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: Adrianna] #614470
18/09/17 11:08 AM
18/09/17 11:08 AM
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Cyka Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adrianna
Originally Posted By: geala
@ Adrianna: But then, what if you have it on different chars? As it is in my group. My main is necro and Lohse is summoner, and the funny little incarnate and the funny balloon blob from Necromancer crawl around at the same time.

They could have it easily solved by denying any Summoner stats increases to summons from other schools.


if you havent already get your summoning to level 10 and come back to me... at level 9.. it was a piece of trash... at level 10 summoning it could solo the entire encounter by itself.


It falls off heavily by late game where your char is critting for 3k+ on one skill.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: Adrianna] #614476
18/09/17 11:14 AM
18/09/17 11:14 AM
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geala Offline
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geala  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Adrianna
Originally Posted By: geala
@ Adrianna: But then, what if you have it on different chars? As it is in my group. My main is necro and Lohse is summoner, and the funny little incarnate and the funny balloon blob from Necromancer crawl around at the same time.

They could have it easily solved by denying any Summoner stats increases to summons from other schools.


if you havent already get your summoning to level 10 and come back to me... at level 9.. it was a piece of trash... at level 10 summoning it could solo the entire encounter by itself... and i would hardly call it a "funny little incarnate" after level 10 when its like 3x the size of your characters and taller than most ladders..


That was not the question. The problem is, you can have two or more summons in a group when your summoner is not the master of the other summons. Does not matter how strong the incarnate gets.

Then why shouldn't it be possible to have the summoner have the other pets too, if he put points into the corresponding school?

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614477
18/09/17 11:15 AM
18/09/17 11:15 AM
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LordGodSatan Offline
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Yeah, I found out the hard way that Ifan's Wolf counts towards that limit.

While I agree that having multiple summons would definitely bog down the game a bit, at the same time, does it really matter?

Then again, as it is, they are ridiculously powerful. I don't summon totems on my Summoner anymore, I pop out an incarnate, and then typically use a buff on them for the last two points, next turn I throw out a 3 cost fire spells, etc.

Incarnate is just about as strong when fully geared up as my primary character, potentially more powerful if fully imbued.

I just wish they had weakened the primary incarnate, and instead given us more summons.

Instead of totems we would have gotten animal or elemental summons, that act on their own (like the totems) but fit a bit more thematically.

Would essentially just be an allied AI, and for all purposes, no different, though they'd require more spellslots, and probably would have been a bit stronger to offset that.

-Summon Spider, uses web snares to root enemies
-Summon Wolf, cripples and/or bleeds foes
-3 source point, bazillion action point, Summon Puff the Magic Dragon

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614483
18/09/17 11:20 AM
18/09/17 11:20 AM
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Adrianna Offline
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Adrianna  Offline
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I kinda agree that summoner should be able to summon other pets at once.. if only for the reason that incarnate is not the only summon you can get from the summoning school.. the pet cat for one.. and in the GM mode i saw condor and a dragon summoner can summon.. so if there are multiple pets in the summoner tree it makes no sense that they are limited to only one.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614525
18/09/17 11:53 AM
18/09/17 11:53 AM
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TsunAmik Offline
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TsunAmik  Offline
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I actually dont really care that much.. I remember that slugfest when there were 4 summons on my team in DOS1, it was not fun whatsoever really... Thinking about 8+ summons at a time is scary laugh

I also previously thought that incarnate should have lower CD, so I can switch his damage type when needed, but then I discovered Infuse skillbooks crafting... and I have to say, larian did good job on summonings, giving us great variety of summons from one spell - imagine that, you have basically 5+4 skills in 3 memory slots! (elemental damage of incarnate type+rush+ww+ranged+taunt). And MUCH more if you count source infusions...

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614676
18/09/17 02:55 PM
18/09/17 02:55 PM
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Adrianna Offline
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Adrianna  Offline
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there are actually 2 infusions you missed tsun.. it has a stealth infusion (shadow infusion) that gives it chameleon cloak and some scoundrel skill forget which.. and it has a warp infusion which gives it tactical retreat and 15% dodge chance.

Last edited by Adrianna; 18/09/17 02:57 PM.
Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614846
18/09/17 05:47 PM
18/09/17 05:47 PM
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Nivv Offline
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One summon per person limit basically cripples/makes the extra summons in the game like the black cat very weak or not useful, you naturally want all the summon abilities on the summoner with the best summon stat, but it's worthless because they can only have one out at a time.

It's very much a cardinal sin in regards to summoning classes, whose strength is thriving on being able to have an army at their disposal. Maybe these secondary summons ought to be changed to scale off a character's highest combat skill so they can be freely distributed. It's almost laughable that for example a necromancy school summon requires summoning stat to scale its usefulness. It'd be like if combat abilities did not switch between finesse and strength depending on which is higher for the character.

My biggest disappointment is not being able to have controllable void beings. I personally don't like the look of the incarnate much even at its highest form. It's versatility is nice, but the armor it has is too tacky, I wished for something more terrifying, monstrous, and bestial.

Re: Summoning is limited [Re: DeuxGzuis] #614989
18/09/17 08:05 PM
18/09/17 08:05 PM
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Yegodz Offline
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Yegodz  Offline
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It should not even be called a summoner class if all you can summon is one creature. The other trees can all summon one creature, so summoner is nothing special in that regard. Sure, you can buff up your summoned creature, but again that by itself is not a good reason to call it a summoner class. Also, for a class called summoning, there seems to be a lack of different types of creatures you can summon(just variations of incarnate based on what you summon it on). I can understand other hybrids only limited to one summoned creature, that is not their forte. However, the summoner class should increase the number of summons as you level it up so you can summon multiple creatures and not be bound to one.

On a side note, I also find the totems to be near useless. I do not even summon it anymore. Would rather replace it all together and have another summoned creature on the field.

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