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Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618019
21/09/17 01:41 PM
21/09/17 01:41 PM
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Originally Posted By: Zherot
Stuff like this is also an exploit, they are not "tactics":

Originally Posted By: Zherot
Originally Posted By: rumpelstilskin
CC on tactician mode can be a bit more involved than using a skill though


That's called cheese, i have another example:





This type of things should not be needed or your primary way to deal with something, it is just dumb and just proves by itself how broken is Tactician.





THIS i hate it but some fights are just to OP to use anything other than cheese and i will say it again i blame the simple base stats. lower them by 25% on some encounters im not talking EVERYTHING and let the elitist git gud players go on the 1 save game mode so they can git even gudder. i want to use tactics not high numbers at the moment its basicly oh my healer/enchanter got stunned gameover kind of playstyle and i hate it.

Last edited by Iceborg; 21/09/17 01:57 PM.
Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618028
21/09/17 01:47 PM
21/09/17 01:47 PM
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Kalrakh Offline

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The game got degraded from an RPG to an Min-Max-Festival via giganormous numbers in higher levels, because that is the only kind of progress is can now deliver: bigger numbers.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618248
21/09/17 05:57 PM
21/09/17 05:57 PM
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Subcryo Offline
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We are actively avoiding any overpowered combos or exploit, and we still find tactician mode too easy. Don't speak for all of us please.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Subcryo] #618249
21/09/17 05:59 PM
21/09/17 05:59 PM
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Originally Posted By: Subcryo
We are actively avoiding any overpowered combos or exploit, and we still find tactician mode too easy. Don't speak for all of us please.


It is kind of why I say the mode is too easy and too hard.

Once you know the "trick" the difficulty melts away revealing how busted it is the entire time.

If you don't know the "trick" then the overbuffed stats and damage will simply beat you down because those basic strategies only work against enemies of equal strength.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Subcryo] #618251
21/09/17 06:00 PM
21/09/17 06:00 PM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Subcryo
We are actively avoiding any overpowered combos or exploit, and we still find tactician mode too easy. Don't speak for all of us please.


/facepalm


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Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Iceborg] #618254
21/09/17 06:02 PM
21/09/17 06:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Iceborg


THIS i hate it but some fights are just to OP to use anything other than cheese and i will say it again i blame the simple base stats. lower them by 25% on some encounters im not talking EVERYTHING and let the elitist git gud players go on the 1 save game mode so they can git even gudder. i want to use tactics not high numbers at the moment its basicly oh my healer/enchanter got stunned gameover kind of playstyle and i hate it.


Not only that but add to the armor bloat the fact that initiative/wits are dogshit and yeah, have fun.


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Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618257
21/09/17 06:04 PM
21/09/17 06:04 PM
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I blame the gear scaling. A level 20 Divine shield gives 1394/1951 magic/physical armor. A level 21 Divine shield gives 1806/2528

The 30% stat increase is a bit much and enemies, even + 50% stat, can barely compete with legendary gear. Divine= ggwp and you get that from merchant every hour or a piece from running around with Lucky Charm every 10-15 minutes.

A full set tank mage has like 6k magic armor and enemies deal like 500 a hit with magic. Ha.

Last edited by Ellezard; 21/09/17 06:05 PM.
Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Ellezard] #618258
21/09/17 06:06 PM
21/09/17 06:06 PM
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Originally Posted By: Ellezard
I blame the gear scaling. A level 20 Divine shield gives 1394/1951 magic/physical armor. A level 21 Divine shield gives 1806/2528

The 30% stat increase is a bit much and enemies, even + 50% stat, can barely compete with legendary gear. Divine= ggwp and you get that from merchant every hour or a piece from running around with Lucky Charm every 10-15 minutes.

A full set tank mage has like 6k magic armor and enemies deal like 500 a hit with magic. Ha.


Armor strikes again! I am having the sneaking suspicion that armor might not make the cut for the next game.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Ellezard] #618264
21/09/17 06:16 PM
21/09/17 06:16 PM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Ellezard
I blame the gear scaling. A level 20 Divine shield gives 1394/1951 magic/physical armor. A level 21 Divine shield gives 1806/2528

The 30% stat increase is a bit much and enemies, even + 50% stat, can barely compete with legendary gear. Divine= ggwp and you get that from merchant every hour or a piece from running around with Lucky Charm every 10-15 minutes.

A full set tank mage has like 6k magic armor and enemies deal like 500 a hit with magic. Ha.


Yeah but not everyone is exploiting the game like you, some of us like to have a fair challenge and not cheese the game to make a point in a game.


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Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618269
21/09/17 06:25 PM
21/09/17 06:25 PM
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Apparently just buying gears from merchant and using thievery only when it's maxed and gears are ready.

Ha, if you think thievery make people too rich, go try magic charm now.

Unless putting points into magic charm is an exploit as well.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Neonivek] #618270
21/09/17 06:27 PM
21/09/17 06:27 PM
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What trick?
We simply use crafting and thievery on our rogue, then we do each combat as it is intended by making use of the environment, picking targets according to our strengths, deciding who or what to disable first etc. Thats what makes this game and the last fun, the fact that no combat is the same every scenario requires different situational abilities, the fact that you would suggest to have it otherwise is really sad to me because that is what I enjoy the most about this game.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Neonivek] #618276
21/09/17 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted By: Neonivek

Armor strikes again! I am having the sneaking suspicion that armor might not make the cut for the next game.


On the bright side, enemies are smart now and just use cursed ice which goes through armor and freeze you.

Or piercing damage.

The grenade they throw are too weak though. 300-400 piercing damage doesn't do much when you have 7k health from the free cons on those items.

The fight is as good as over though if your magic shield breaks because they all abuse charm grenade and mind dominate so you might as well consider your magic shield your health instead.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618392
21/09/17 08:34 PM
21/09/17 08:34 PM
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Armor is your health, that is the core issue of the armor system. As soon as your armors are gone, you are mostly permanent CCd anyway, therefore making Health itself pretty pointless.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Kalrakh] #618397
21/09/17 08:37 PM
21/09/17 08:37 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kalrakh
Armor is your health, that is the core issue of the armor system. As soon as your armors are gone, you are mostly permanent CCd anyway, therefore making Health itself pretty pointless.


The last fight actually make use of health because enemies no longer perma CC, just perma debuff with DoT so hard you need to heal and perma mend/soothing with your custom char dome to survive.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Kalrakh] #618405
21/09/17 08:40 PM
21/09/17 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted By: Kalrakh
Armor is your health, that is the core issue of the armor system. As soon as your armors are gone, you are mostly permanent CCd anyway, therefore making Health itself pretty pointless.


I disagree completely, as my easiest run through Tactician is with 3 Glass Cannons.

Enemies do so much damage on Tactician that armor is an afterthought, your best bet is stacking evasive skills on multiple characters (Evasive Aura, Uncanny Evasion, Chameleon Cloak, Smoke Clouds etc)

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618407
21/09/17 08:41 PM
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I fight in the dome pretty much always.

Love the dome.

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618517
21/09/17 11:00 PM
21/09/17 11:00 PM
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tac·ti·cian
takˈtiSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: tactician; plural noun: tacticians

a person who uses a carefully planned strategy to achieve a specific end.
"a brilliant political tactician"

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: TemptingIcarus] #618549
21/09/17 11:43 PM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: TemptingIcarus
tac·ti·cian
takˈtiSH(ə)n/
noun
noun: tactician; plural noun: tacticians

a person who uses a carefully planned strategy to achieve a specific end.
"a brilliant political tactician"


Yeah grat tactics are shown in images in this post.

pfff


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Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618736
22/09/17 05:13 AM
22/09/17 05:13 AM
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Originally Posted By: Zherot


Yeah grat tactics are shown in images in this post.

pfff


You really don't have to use any of the stuff shown in those pictures to beat Tactician difficulty.
We haven't done any of that (and no stealing either) and we still do fine.
You keep referring to those pictures, and that is really not a good argument imo, because again: You really don't have to use tactics like that

What those pictures say is that the AI could be better at times, not that Tactician is borked. This issue is present on all difficulties

While I agree that Wits could benefit from a rework - to me it's in a very awkward place right now

I also agree that the difficulty isn't without faults, but to have a real discussion about it, it doesn't help us at all to be overdramatic.

We really need to separate between the two meanings of exploit
- "make full use of and derive benefit from (a resource)" - Casting a heal on an undead enemy
- "make use of (a situation) in a way considered unfair or underhand" - blocking the AI so they lock up and don't fight back
That is two very different ways of using the word. (What is what is also subjective, my examples are just my view)

I think most of us agree that we want more tactical depth and not having to rely on cheese or fringe skills (like mass thieving)

Re: Devs,please don't listen to EXPLOITERS (Tactician) [Re: Zherot] #618774
22/09/17 05:59 AM
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The selling point for Tactician in D:OS1 one, was not only to be harder but also fights to be different. If the difficulty is mainly achieved through bloated chance, that can be hardly said.

In D:OS1 there often were more and more special enemies in fights like the lightning zombies in the fight outside of the doors, making a fighter fresh and harder. There were also often speciel 'enemie' that just supported with an aura.

But in D:OS2 there seems to be heardly anything new to fight, only some skill and perhaps one or another aura?

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