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How useful is Persuasion? #616525
20/09/17 02:57 AM
20/09/17 02:57 AM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Does it really that needed for anything? Is there any hard checks that need a lot of persuasion that actually affect the story in meaningful ways or it is only to skip combat scenarios?


Fanboy Killer.
Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #616539
20/09/17 03:30 AM
20/09/17 03:30 AM
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Terodil Offline
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What is 'meaningful'? It has the potential to change the outcome of a lot of encounters. Personally, I always find it extremely important to play my *characters* 'right': not having any points in persuasion can ruin the experience, even though I can, mechanically, play through the game without any issues.

For example, my Sebille is not really running for the next Nobel Prize, so she has no aspirations to achieve world peace (tm) by being an expert diplomat. But there are occasions where it really matters to me that she passes a check, e.g. when she threatens somebody to obtain information. I find it very frustrating when that bombs; it should not really matter if Sebille, a professional assassin and interrogation expert, recently sweet-talked Attila the Hun into having a tea party. Having her whisper into your ear while she pushes the tip of her dagger into the skin of your neck will surely provide adequate motivation to keep her happy, no?

Speaking of which, I have not really understood how those [WITS] or [STRENGTH] checks come into play in combination with persuasion skill levels. My experience is that almost all checks have failed when diplomacy was low, i.e. even high attribute values did not make a difference. Conversely, almost all checks have succeeded when diplomacy was high, i.e. even abysmal attribute scores lead to a successful skill check. Seems a bit one-sided to me, but ultimately that is a good thing, imo, because I sometimes find the way they match attributes to diplomatic approaches counter-intuitive at best; I'd prefer a simple tonal choice in those situations, really. E.g.:

"No, I won't tell you who stole that ring."
[INT] *You point out that stealing should not be tolerated because it would erode society standards and order in general, and ultimately lead to nobody being safe, including him. He would really be helping himself by helping you.*
[STR] *You pick him up by the throat and threaten to smash his teeth in if he does not reveal what he knows.*
[CON] *You point out that you have a lot of time on your hands, and that he'll have you camping in his living room for the next few days, unless he tells you what you want to know.*

While thematically, all options make some sense with the way they are matched to attributes, a peaceful and patient character with low CON (e.g. the wizard-archetype) would fail the [CON] check required for the peaceful and patient solution. Similarly, my Sebille would prefer something like the [STR] check, as discussed above, but bomb the check because she has absolutely no STR, all DEX (err... finesse, of course >.>)

TL;DR: I find persuasion extremely important for the role-playing aspect of the game, but recognise that the implementation of it often leaves a lot to be desired. I don't even know how it should be implemented in an ideal world, perhaps this is simply a limitation of RPG systems in general.

Personally, I usually cheat to obtain a high persuasion skill in RPGs like this, so I have free reign to pick persuasion options when they are required to stay in-character. The benefit, for me, far outweighs the slight loss of 'challenge' presented by character specialisation.

Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #616575
20/09/17 05:12 AM
20/09/17 05:12 AM
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[MEM] Too long; didn't read.

Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #616677
20/09/17 08:08 AM
20/09/17 08:08 AM
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Adrianna Offline
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persuasion gives a +5 bonus to all your attributes for speech checks... which is why high persuasion characters often pass their checks even with low attributes.. because thats basically free 25 points in all stats.

Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Johnny_Devo] #617159
20/09/17 05:02 PM
20/09/17 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted By: Johnny_Devo
[MEM] Too long; didn't read.


[WIS] Resists Urge to facepalm

Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #617502
21/09/17 12:46 AM
21/09/17 12:46 AM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Seem really useless if it is only to obtain information and not things that cana ctually change stuff radically in the game.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #618186
21/09/17 04:32 PM
21/09/17 04:32 PM
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Terodil Offline
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Is this an RPG or an action game? *goes to look*

Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #618194
21/09/17 04:46 PM
21/09/17 04:46 PM
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Dopelgingembre Offline
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It's up to you.

In my current play, I like to solve conflict without a fight and spare people whenever I can. High persuasion allow me to do just that.

A lot of "meaningful" dialogues are affected by persuasion but it's not better/worse, it just give you more options when confronted to a moral choice.


Sauce Hunter
Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Terodil] #618197
21/09/17 04:50 PM
21/09/17 04:50 PM
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The Frog & Hounds
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Duchess of Gorgombert
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The Frog & Hounds
Originally Posted By: Terodil
Is this an RPG or an action game? *goes to look*

I admit I sometimes wonder if it's an RPG or a strategy game, going by the comments. I guess it can be both, but some people seem to forget that.

I also admit I hate strategy as I have no concentration.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Terodil] #618256
21/09/17 06:04 PM
21/09/17 06:04 PM
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Terodil
Is this an RPG or an action game? *goes to look*


If your presuasion checks are meaningless then your rpg is crap.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: How useful is Persuasion? [Re: Zherot] #618614
22/09/17 01:12 AM
22/09/17 01:12 AM
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Terodil Offline
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If the outcome of numerous encounters (peaceful resolution vs. bloodshed; helping innocents vs. extorting them; etc.) is completely meaningless to you as long as you manage to complete the game, then 99% of what makes an RPG an RPG is completely lost on you. Play Super Mario or Diablo III instead.


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