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What with persuasion fail in this game? #617346
20/09/17 09:06 PM
20/09/17 09:06 PM
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Ellezard Offline OP
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Starting at Act 2, it's like half of them are fail by default no matter how high your stat and persuasion stats are.

I can try a Str check
With 60 Str And 7 in Persuasion
And still fail every key moment persuasion.

Is there a hidden +10 persuasion item at level 5 or something that I'm missing?

Last edited by Ellezard; 20/09/17 09:07 PM.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617358
20/09/17 09:22 PM
20/09/17 09:22 PM
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vometia Offline

Duchess of Gorgombert
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Must admit I've wondered the same thing. In some situations e.g.

Click to reveal..
Gareth's farm and the Crossley house


I've resigned myself to just having to take direct action instead; as much as my preferred option is to go for high charisma and get through speech checks it seems it's often doomed to failure.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617363
20/09/17 09:29 PM
20/09/17 09:29 PM
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Lyrhe Offline
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Can't confirm I played a human custom character and just put all civic points into persuasion and only failed the check in the driftwood arena. It's not always wise to pick your mainstat. I noticed that sometimes the required points are a lot lower in smarter or more appropriate answers even if they roll against another and worse stat.

Last edited by Lyrhe; 20/09/17 09:30 PM.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Lyrhe] #617371
20/09/17 09:40 PM
20/09/17 09:40 PM
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Ellezard Offline OP
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I usually play as a lizard and most of them still flop unless I respec to 5 persuasion, which I decide to do now just to get a certain quest in Arx to clear with no one dying.

I even tried looking up stat of the other side (since persuasion used to check like Fin vs Wit in EA IIRC ) and sending someone with very high stat and they still flop.

It's like they completely removed of stat comparsion and just make each stat worth a point or something and persuasion worth 5 points and adds them up to check if it's a pass or a fail. Some of the heated arguement just end up having too much into it that even a respec Lizard (+1 pers) can't get it going without some hidden and weak persuasive accessories set.

If the peasants refuse to listen to the charming master race lizard, you know they ain't going to listen to any body.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617413
20/09/17 10:35 PM
20/09/17 10:35 PM
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Terodil Offline
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Originally Posted By: Ellezard
If the peasants refuse to listen to the charming master race lizard, you know they ain't going to listen to any body.
Quote:
ain't going to listen listen to any body
Quote:
any body


I find your choice of putting a space between 'any' and 'body' to be both hilarious and wrong. When I fail persuasion checks, they always listen to bodies, specifically to the 'splortch' and 'thud' sounds they tend to make. wink

Also, I cannot confirm. After my respec from useless stealth into femme fatale persuasion (5 currently), I haven't failed a single persuasion check yet (Driftwood), and none of my attributes are higher than 25. Does game difficulty have an influence on the skill check to beat?

Last edited by Terodil; 20/09/17 10:41 PM.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Terodil] #617452
20/09/17 11:41 PM
20/09/17 11:41 PM
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vometia Offline

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Originally Posted By: Terodil
I find your choice of putting a space between 'any' and 'body' to be both hilarious and wrong.

My understanding is that the contraction of the two words into "anybody" is actually a comparatively recent thing, occurring some time in the 19th century.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617461
20/09/17 11:48 PM
20/09/17 11:48 PM
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Terodil Offline
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Sorry if that wasn't apparent -- I really was joking, I could not resist the temptation to pun. *sigh* I guess my friends were right when they said that despite not being a dad, I behave like one sometimes. Apologies.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617468
20/09/17 11:52 PM
20/09/17 11:52 PM
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vometia Offline

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Don't worry about me, I'm that person who you need to explain a joke to at the best of times. :p


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617511
21/09/17 01:00 AM
21/09/17 01:00 AM
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mesmerizedish Offline
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Merriam-Webster says the first occurrence of "anybody" is in the fourteenth century.

And on topic, assuming the example in the OP is an actual thing, have you tried one of the OTHER options? I would not be shocked if certain checks were set up to just always fail for, like, RP reasons or something (i.e. certain kinds of arguments just do not work on a particular character, etc.).

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617516
21/09/17 01:05 AM
21/09/17 01:05 AM
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Gaidax Offline
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Huh? Not having this issue, seems to succeed just fine in most of the cases when there is a match.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617518
21/09/17 01:06 AM
21/09/17 01:06 AM
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Zherot Offline
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And are those Persuasion checks even worth a damn or they are just fight not fight scenarios?

Seems to me like persuasion is shit.

Last edited by Zherot; 21/09/17 01:06 AM.

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Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Zherot] #617543
21/09/17 01:36 AM
21/09/17 01:36 AM
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vometia Offline

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Originally Posted By: mesmerizedish
Merriam-Webster says the first occurrence of "anybody" is in the fourteenth century.

I was thinking more in terms of when it came into commonplace usage: I have an OED looming behind me which has lots of etymology (actually quite interesting during a bored moment) but which seemed unwilling to commit itself in this case beyond "formerly".

Like I know anything about writing decent English anyway: I only studied it until I was 15.

Originally Posted By: Zherot
And are those Persuasion checks even worth a damn or they are just fight not fight scenarios?

Seems to me like persuasion is shit.

Some of them are kind of important-ish, depending. The one that was a particular source of frustration was halting an execution. After assorted attempts to use different characters and attribute-boosting potions I eventually gave up with the diplomacy route and just attacked them instead.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: vometia] #617650
21/09/17 06:17 AM
21/09/17 06:17 AM
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Zherot Offline
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Originally Posted By: vometia
Originally Posted By: mesmerizedish
Merriam-Webster says the first occurrence of "anybody" is in the fourteenth century.

I was thinking more in terms of when it came into commonplace usage: I have an OED looming behind me which has lots of etymology (actually quite interesting during a bored moment) but which seemed unwilling to commit itself in this case beyond "formerly".

Like I know anything about writing decent English anyway: I only studied it until I was 15.

Originally Posted By: Zherot
And are those Persuasion checks even worth a damn or they are just fight not fight scenarios?

Seems to me like persuasion is shit.

Some of them are kind of important-ish, depending. The one that was a particular source of frustration was halting an execution. After assorted attempts to use different characters and attribute-boosting potions I eventually gave up with the diplomacy route and just attacked them instead.


Then it is pretty useless if you can just force your will anyway if you fail.


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Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Zherot] #617700
21/09/17 07:34 AM
21/09/17 07:34 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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If it works anything like it is in EE... SOME skill checks are better than others depending on the situation.

Using intimidation checks on some people (strength checks now) is often "wrong". If what you are saying is true, then some skill checks autofail if they are the "bad one"

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617720
21/09/17 08:12 AM
21/09/17 08:12 AM
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Ellezard Offline OP
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I actually got the execution scene to finally pass yesterday after I stack even more persuasion from some other gears.

There's one scene I failed on Nameless Isle though and a key npc had to die.

It's really ridiculous. Shopping around for +3 persuasion from gears and racial is something I better have at all time starting from Nameless Isle. Even if I flip a mage with some weird stat like 40 mem to go persuade them simply because I didn't wear persuasion gear on every possible body part.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Zherot] #617721
21/09/17 08:17 AM
21/09/17 08:17 AM
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vometia Offline

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Originally Posted By: Zherot
Then it is pretty useless if you can just force your will anyway if you fail.

Not really, from an RP perspective I much prefer to use a persuasion check even if I will take the "by any means necessary" approach in certain situations.

Originally Posted By: Ellezard
I actually got the execution scene to finally pass yesterday after I stack even more persuasion from some other gears.

There's one scene I failed on Nameless Isle though and a key npc had to die.

It's really ridiculous. Shopping around for +3 persuasion from gears and racial is something I better have at all time starting from Nameless Isle. Even if I flip a mage with some weird stat like 40 mem to go persuade them simply because I didn't wear persuasion gear on every possible body part.

I've had a frustrating time with finding loot that has a useful set of attributes, and have spent the past couple of days trawling vendors for that and others without even finding a +1 personality item. I did find a single-hander that boosted my two-handed though, so that made up for it. biggrin


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #617737
21/09/17 08:32 AM
21/09/17 08:32 AM
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geala Offline
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For me persuasion works. Sometimes a bit too well, I lack xp from killing some people. If my main fails (quite often), it's time for Ifan who has all points in Persuasion. He's usually successful, now, after a shave, he is even better.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #620984
25/09/17 07:34 AM
25/09/17 07:34 AM
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vometia Offline

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Hmm, run up against another unpersuadable character, one of those in Arx. It seems the first persuasion check fails regardless but the second passes regardless, so I'm not really sure what's the deal with that. I'm stuck at 6 points of persuasion (5 base, which is the max: I did try respeccing my extra point into that but found it won't let me) and to date have only found amulets with +1 persuasion so I can't raise it higher than that unless there's a potion, food, drink or a spell that I've missed.

The outcome isn't terrible with one fail and one succeed but I'm still not happy with it so would like to figure out how to increase it further... unless it's just scripted to fail, which is possible, I guess.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #621007
25/09/17 08:33 AM
25/09/17 08:33 AM
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Synx Offline
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I think some of them require specific persuasion options outside of the stat ones. For example I passed the Garreth farm one with 4 persuasion, by choosing the Hero persuasion option.

Re: What with persuasion fail in this game? [Re: Ellezard] #621074
25/09/17 10:34 AM
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miaasma Offline
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what i've surmised is that some checks will never work no matter how high your persuasion is. the thing you want to pay the least attention to is the stat associated with the check; i've failed intelligence checks but succeeded on wits checks with high int mages that i've put at most one extra wits point into. the game seems to put more emphasis on the actual message your character says with each check - does it seem like this would reasonably persuade anyone? if the answer is no, it's unlikely that even high persuasion will do it for you

there definitely seems to be certain persuasion options in each check that absolutely will not succeed no matter how high the stat or your persuasion level is. i always max persuasion in games like this, so when your persuasion is as high as it reasonably can be for where you are in the game and your check is still failing, it's probably indicating that that specific option is impossible

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