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Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. #617408
20/09/17 10:28 PM
20/09/17 10:28 PM
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DevanaTV Offline OP
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Everything wrong with Summoning tree.. here:

We cant bless surfaces like we could earlier. Thats bad rendering Totems useless on higher levels.
Incarnates Charge knock down is always physical - it should not be.
AOE spells - even from ally - destroy totems that are already weak as hell.
One summon at a time, no buffs for Totems nor No infusions for other skill tree summons.
Incredibly big cooldown on Incarnates. Cursed infusions require big amount of skills wasted + Source points - useless, chameleon cloak skill - useless.

- Buff totems with bonus stats or make it have Cursed surfaces (even on normal surfaces) stats bonus after level 10 of summoning. Acid attack, decaying touch etc.
- Make it so we can have at least 2 summons or one summon for every school at the cost of totems - 2 turns cd/4 turns lasting with a bit more HP/PA/MA on them or invulnerability to AOE spells.
- Also change Incarnates Charge Knock Down effect based on the element it attacks with so we dont have to summon Physical ones everytime.
- Get our Bless or Cursed Infusions to be cast without Source Points required. 2SP for one infusion. For real? Dome of protection is A LOT better spell for JUST 1SP. Not to mention Skills from items with Source Orbs in Rune Slots.

Last edited by DevanaTV; 20/09/17 10:34 PM.
Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: DevanaTV] #617651
21/09/17 06:18 AM
21/09/17 06:18 AM
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Jack_301 Offline
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Originally Posted By: DevanaTV

- Buff totems
- Make it so we can have at least 2 summons

Agree with most things here, but with a caveat: Summoning needs nerfed along with some major quality-of-life gameplay changes.
Currently running my 4-man summoner team and just steamrolling everything. Alexander didn't even touch my party this time.

Edit to clarify: Wouldn't mind HP and duration buffs even if that meant doing less damage.

Last edited by Jack_301; 21/09/17 06:20 AM.
Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: DevanaTV] #617692
21/09/17 07:23 AM
21/09/17 07:23 AM
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Neonivek Offline

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Totems already do excessive damage for 2ap... and the fact that an enemy might waste an attack on one means it is one of the best tools for essentially wasting an enemy turn. (Why are you casting totems in the way?)

If anything the totems need a nerf, not a buff (2ap to do... 2ap worth of damage, every single turn) but I digress.

Last edited by Neonivek; 21/09/17 07:24 AM.
Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: DevanaTV] #617826
21/09/17 10:13 AM
21/09/17 10:13 AM
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geala Offline
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Disagreed mostly. The Conjurer is good as it is in my opinion. I cannot judge the source infusions however, maybe they need some love.

For the rest, it's ok, they took some of the wishes from the EA and made the Conjurer really strong, some even say too strong. For example you can summon now the incarnate with 2 ap (in the EA it was 3) and so buff it with two infusions in one turn. And it goes next in combat order always for immediate damage.

Also totems shoot earlier than in the EA, making them quite strong.

Knockdown is a physical damage thing. Why should the incarnate have a better knockdown than Warfare users? It already has access to physical and magical damage to your wish.

Two summons would be much too strong, if they had the high current stats. So it had to be weaker summons each, not a good deal considering aoe danger.

What has Dome of Protection to do with the source infusions? It's the custom char special source skill.

Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: Jack_301] #617838
21/09/17 10:21 AM
21/09/17 10:21 AM
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Cyka Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jack_301
Originally Posted By: DevanaTV

- Buff totems
- Make it so we can have at least 2 summons

Agree with most things here, but with a caveat: Summoning needs nerfed along with some major quality-of-life gameplay changes.
Currently running my 4-man summoner team and just steamrolling everything. Alexander didn't even touch my party this time.

Edit to clarify: Wouldn't mind HP and duration buffs even if that meant doing less damage.


Can you at least finish the game first before shouting about nerfing? Summoning falls off very very hard.

Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: geala] #617953
21/09/17 12:26 PM
21/09/17 12:26 PM
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DevanaTV Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: geala
Disagreed mostly. The Conjurer is good as it is in my opinion. I cannot judge the source infusions however, maybe they need some love.

For the rest, it's ok, they took some of the wishes from the EA and made the Conjurer really strong, some even say too strong. For example you can summon now the incarnate with 2 ap (in the EA it was 3) and so buff it with two infusions in one turn. And it goes next in combat order always for immediate damage.

Also totems shoot earlier than in the EA, making them quite strong.

Knockdown is a physical damage thing. Why should the incarnate have a better knockdown than Warfare users? It already has access to physical and magical damage to your wish.

Two summons would be much too strong, if they had the high current stats. So it had to be weaker summons each, not a good deal considering aoe danger.

What has Dome of Protection to do with the source infusions? It's the custom char special source skill.


Warfare uses pure physical damage, that is why. How are you supposed to use it when you have pure elemental damage demon? If you had blood infusion spell - would be gucci, but you dont. Also changing between elements cause you to lose Charge skill in the process on Incarnates (its a bug).

As Cyka said above, can you at least finish the game with conjurers before talking? Then maybe you will know that even buffed incarnates fall at levels 14+ to 2 units hitting them in one turn. Hell, in Mordus cave those vampire shits almost killed a buffed incarnates in one turn. Level 15 summoning skills ones.

Aether boss killed them BOTH in one attack in second turn of the fight. Then what. Cooldown.

Totems WERE strong up until Act 2 where difficulty sky rocket. Every enemy have an aoe spell, every archer can clean 4 totems in one turn.
One blood totem at level 13 deals 74 damage and dies from any aoe spell used even by summoner. Is it worth to use 2AP to deal 74dmg to someone that has 1.5k physical armor? Or would you rather use Mosquito swarm and deal 200damage. Or buff your entire party for 1AP.

e/ what has dome of protection to do with that? Its a balance comparison between two skills. You pay more for incredibly strong spell while low tier skill causing skills to mess up cost a lot more.

Last edited by DevanaTV; 21/09/17 12:28 PM.
Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: DevanaTV] #618171
21/09/17 04:10 PM
21/09/17 04:10 PM
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Testing Offline
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I really wonder how you live with yourself writing this. Summoning DEFINITELY needs to give the increases stated by the tooltip rather than double.
Summoning is the SINGLE best source of damage mid-late game. The reason for this is the fact that every summoning point gives 10% (!) instead of 5% like EVERY other skilltree.
Examples: You know the fire slug's laser? Well if you use it on a char with high summoning (15+) buff it with encourage and peace of mind you get a laser that deals about 40% more damage than the laser on a normal full pyro-int character.
The same goes for epidemic of fire for necrofire infusion. It is better to invest in summoning and have the summon cast for you rather than go pyro.

Lets do some math. An incarnate can EASILY reach 30 int wit encourage and peace of mind, perhaps even more. Add to that two +25% from infusions. Add also a 160% multiplier from soul bond (due to bugged bonuses) and you have something that can DEAL HIGHER DAMAGE THAN ANY PLAYER BUILD.
It is absolutely obvious that the soul bond multiplier needs to be nerfed WAAAY down. (like to 5% as EVERY OTHER skill has).


EDIT: Lets not forget also the way than hydro-geo armor buffs DOUBLE-DIP with summoning bonuses and give an incarnate than for ZERO gear can get about as much armor as the final boss.

Last edited by Testing; 21/09/17 04:12 PM.
Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: DevanaTV] #619461
22/09/17 11:19 PM
22/09/17 11:19 PM
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Darksky Offline
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I actually felt like incarnate became kind of meh close to the last bossfight, so i started using artilery plant instead, and man that thing is doing insane damage. I think that incarnate should actually be rebalanced, because it's considerably weaker than summons from other s-trees.
I think it's because other summons are balanced around not having points in summoning, which is understandable, but still a bad balancing decision overall.
But we all should keep in mind that there are source spells that may oneshot even the beefiest bosses, and they still overshadow all the power that summons provide.

Re: Incarnates charge, totems, everything wrong.. [Re: Jack_301] #619555
23/09/17 03:04 AM
23/09/17 03:04 AM
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Cyka Offline
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Originally Posted By: Jack_301
Originally Posted By: DevanaTV

- Buff totems
- Make it so we can have at least 2 summons

Agree with most things here, but with a caveat: Summoning needs nerfed along with some major quality-of-life gameplay changes.
Currently running my 4-man summoner team and just steamrolling everything. Alexander didn't even touch my party this time.

Edit to clarify: Wouldn't mind HP and duration buffs even if that meant doing less damage.


Summoning falls off late game REALLY REALLY HARD. Seriously your party is doing 10k+ damage on a whim while your incarnate is still doing 1k pitiful damage.

Perhaps nerf early summons and give better scaling.

Last edited by Cyka; 23/09/17 03:04 AM.

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