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Should Source skills Return? #617711
21/09/17 07:59 AM
21/09/17 07:59 AM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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Neonivek  Offline OP

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So we have the game, we have our hands on the source skills, and ultimately now is the time where we can put our two cents in and decide if Source was ultimately a good idea for the game.

The original concept behind source skills were that they were a way to allow players to use later flashier spells earlier on, albeit at a cost, as well as use them to turn the tide.

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My personal opinion is ditch them! Ditch them hard!

Ignoring that most Source skills are dreadful (Just get into the skill crafting source skills and prepare to be disapointed) the issue is that exactly that didn't occur.

By the time you have access to source skills, you have access to the majority of the skills in the game, so their original purpose is out.

They also have the distinct honor of effectively halfing the amount of usable skills in the game. While non-source skills you will often find ways to get more use out of them, because source relies on a very finite resource you will usually stick with your best one.

Overall I think what we do get from them (A powerful skill that is tactically sound, connected to a resource so they cannot be spammed) is outweighed by the overall cost to the game. I do think the game would have been improved without them.

If Source MUST return in the sense that they cannot "remove" features no matter how detrimental. Then how about using the same idea many had before with making source skills usable normally but can additionally be charged with source for greater effect? Many of the source skills as they are right now are just "enhanced" versions of other skills.

But that is just my opinion.

Last edited by Neonivek; 21/09/17 08:10 AM.
Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617745
21/09/17 08:40 AM
21/09/17 08:40 AM
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geala Offline
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I don't like the idea of the source skills, using a restricted resource, so I would be open for change.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617786
21/09/17 09:33 AM
21/09/17 09:33 AM
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CaesarCzech Offline
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perhaps have source skills as separate tree ? ie 10-15 skills and increase source cap to something like 10 with strongest spells costing like 3 points.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617811
21/09/17 09:57 AM
21/09/17 09:57 AM
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Nokturnel Offline
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The mechanic behind it (Having to go get more source to cast it) is just a time wasting mechanic and should be removed entirely imo.

Currently, the requirement on having to go get some source to cast these "supposed" to be powerful spells means I just don't cast them. First off most of them aren't that powerful and the AP cost would've been enough of a burden for casting them. Second, I don't want to have to go wasting my time looking for more source after each fight. It's not hard. you can easily just WP to a Source Fountain, but it does waste your time which I don't find to be an enjoyable mechanic at all.

It's the same reason I remove weight restrictions from Skyrim, having to run from point A to point B just to off load some gear because of a silly restriction on weight does not make for a challenging or fun gameplay mechanic.

(Weight restriction isn't realistic btw, fun fact, Wagons existed in the old days pulled by Oxen and horses which people would use to move heavy equipment, but most games don't implement them because of the amount of time that would take)

Last edited by Nokturnel; 21/09/17 10:02 AM.
Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617814
21/09/17 10:04 AM
21/09/17 10:04 AM
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N0x Offline
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Because of the limited resource, I almost never use it either.
I really don't like this design and getting source back feels like a chore !

I would have prefered if it had a long cooldown like 50 turns (or like a 60 minutes ingame time).
You still would use those skills scarcely and wisely.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617829
21/09/17 10:17 AM
21/09/17 10:17 AM
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Cyka Offline
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Most of the source skills especially from the summoning trees are so bad you wonder why do they even cost source. Summoning fire slug is as good as a incarnate. Who the hell ever uses gate of planes? Inner demon from lohse is just a slightly better version of frost armor on a 2ap 1 source point skill. Skin graft is so overnerfed theres practically no point in ever using it.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617836
21/09/17 10:20 AM
21/09/17 10:20 AM
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TsunAmik Offline
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Isn´t skin graft even better that it was, as it doesn´t strip your armors now? It just costs source, because it is, unlike most others, actually extremely useful spell

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617852
21/09/17 10:34 AM
21/09/17 10:34 AM
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CaesarCzech Offline
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i really think they would be better of with not imposing source cost on ordinary powerfull skills and just make around 7-8 source skills that are really powerfull and can get you out of pinch as sort of magic button. For example heal all allies for lets say 1200 Hp. and costing 2-3 source points

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: TsunAmik] #617857
21/09/17 10:39 AM
21/09/17 10:39 AM
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Cyka Offline
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Originally Posted By: TsunAmik
Isn´t skin graft even better that it was, as it doesn´t strip your armors now? It just costs source, because it is, unlike most others, actually extremely useful spell


What? it cost 2 sources and 2AP that is ridiculous, before the purpose of skingraft is to get 2x adrenaline + flesh sacrifice (which was broken since it cost no action points and no source). But due to this heavy nerf, skin graft is situational at very best, because late game you have enough spells/damage why do you need to refresh cooldown on a 2ap? heck just auto attack would be much more efficient.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #617882
21/09/17 11:29 AM
21/09/17 11:29 AM
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Nokturnel Offline
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I'd much prefer just all the more powerful spells require higher amounts of investment into their skill tree. (Like requiring 5-6 Pyro etc)

Currently, even with the source costs, these spells are barely even worth the AP it costs to cast them. Most are worse than spells that cost less AP that you get earlier.

I really don't understand the purpose behind spells costing source. If you wanted them to only be used once per combat, would of been as simple as giving them long cooldowns. With AP cost being tied to how powerful they are.

Last edited by Nokturnel; 21/09/17 11:45 AM.
Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #618033
21/09/17 01:54 PM
21/09/17 01:54 PM
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Ouroboros226 Offline
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Straight up bad design imo

You have so little you don't want to use them. Even if you do use them you end up wishing you didn't because suddenly you need it for a quest or whatever and you hate yourself for using it. Then you have to go around looking for more source etc.

It's so frustrating overall I simply decided to not use it at all.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #618273
21/09/17 06:29 PM
21/09/17 06:29 PM
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rickbuzz Offline
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Honestly those skills were so powerful in DOS 1 that they were game breaking. The way they are implemented currently in DoS 2 is similar to per rest skills from other games, which forces them to be used strategically, not just tactically. I consider this a good thing, otherwise they couldn't even put these powerful skills in the game if they didn't want them to marginalize all previous skills like they did in DoS 1. I can understand the viewpoint of it being a bit of a hassle though if you're the kind of person who would seriously go back to town after every single battle in order to use the skills every single battle...

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Neonivek] #618288
21/09/17 06:43 PM
21/09/17 06:43 PM
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UnderworldHades Offline
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For me, if they should return, they should be unique, like actual source skills that make you badass. Like Source Blast that was being used by some level 8 bitch on the ship, like you telling me she got this but we don't throughout like...the whole game really.

The fact that source skills are part of the geo/pyro and those skills seems....interesting, but like, if they want to do that, it should be NEW skills that should have been source skills, not the old skills that we just used without source. Like really, a summon fireslug? The rangers Arrow spray?Or hell, even the other one (Cant remember name), like all it does is increase range by 3m lol. Like what? They should have made new skills and they should be reallllyyy powerful.

I'm playing with a friend, and even if we're losing a bit, convo usually goes like "um, should i use ____(source skill)?"
"nah, just use something else".

I mean, i can do so much more with just other basic abilities over source, which shows a core problem. If source skills do return, they should be from a completely new tree, with maybe as many skills as regular trees but you can only have a limited amount, so you still get to make choices and try to compliment your playstyle. And those skills should actually be really powerful, i mean you are fking sourceres, you are bound to have some powerful skills.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: UnderworldHades] #618304
21/09/17 07:11 PM
21/09/17 07:11 PM
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Neonivek Offline OP

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I wonder if source skills would function better if source itself regenerated, POSSIBLY with source being limited to 1 or 2 per battle.

Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: rickbuzz] #618478
21/09/17 10:20 PM
21/09/17 10:20 PM
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Nokturnel Offline
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Originally Posted By: rickbuzz
I can understand the viewpoint of it being a bit of a hassle though if you're the kind of person who would seriously go back to town after every single battle in order to use the skills every single battle...


Yea in Baldur's Gate this was solved by having you have to rest to restore spells and having a % chance of enemy encounters during the night.

Even that system had it's flaws but I feel it's a better system then just forcing players to waste time using fast travel to and from source fountains if they want to use Source abilities regularly.

If you used Baldur's Gate's system combined with a system in place where certain quests had timers tied to how many days it takes you could add urgency to only resting when absolutely necessary, just like in most DND campaigns.

Though I still think high AP costs tied with long cooldowns and high combat ability score requirements could make abilties powerful, but not constantly spammed. Source as a resource just seems entirely pointless.

Last edited by Nokturnel; 21/09/17 10:29 PM.
Re: Should Source skills Return? [Re: Nokturnel] #618534
21/09/17 11:18 PM
21/09/17 11:18 PM
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Cyka Offline
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Originally Posted By: Nokturnel
Originally Posted By: rickbuzz
I can understand the viewpoint of it being a bit of a hassle though if you're the kind of person who would seriously go back to town after every single battle in order to use the skills every single battle...


Yea in Baldur's Gate this was solved by having you have to rest to restore spells and having a % chance of enemy encounters during the night.

Even that system had it's flaws but I feel it's a better system then just forcing players to waste time using fast travel to and from source fountains if they want to use Source abilities regularly.

If you used Baldur's Gate's system combined with a system in place where certain quests had timers tied to how many days it takes you could add urgency to only resting when absolutely necessary, just like in most DND campaigns.

Though I still think high AP costs tied with long cooldowns and high combat ability score requirements could make abilties powerful, but not constantly spammed. Source as a resource just seems entirely pointless.


that reminds me of other staple cRPG like Tyranny and Pillars, seriously why isnt this a thing?


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