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Everything that is wrong with the game #624193
30/09/17 09:03 PM
30/09/17 09:03 PM
Joined: May 2015
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Zherot Offline OP
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Zherot  Offline OP
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1-Armor system.
2-Attributes are a husk of what they were.
3-Memory system.
4-AP limit.
5-Turn order.
6-No reliable way to make money outside of Lucky Charm and Thievery.
7-Magic damage has resistances and not Physical damage.
8-Psychic AI
9-Source as a mechanic
10-Lack of talents, even talent points, they are mostly uninsteresting and crappy.


Really disappointing to see how many things went wrong considering how amazing the first game was.

For more in depth information on this issues you can read this topics:

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=621419&page=1

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=619480#Post619480

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622134&nt=2&page=1

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=615071#Post615071

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622818#Post622818

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=624137#Post624137

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=623291#Post623291

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=622963#Post622963

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=611084#Post611084

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=619751#Post619751

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=613496#Post613496

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=615955#Post615955

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=619564#Post619564

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=618797#Post618797

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=616404#Post616404

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=617711#Post617711

http://larian.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=613910#Post613910

Just a FEW of the many topics that reflect the poor design choices you made with this game.







Last edited by Zherot; 01/10/17 01:46 AM.

Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624194
30/09/17 09:09 PM
30/09/17 09:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
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miaasma Offline
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this feels very melodramatic

you can criticize a game in all of these ways, but it's weird to behave as though the developers came to your house and poured milk on your family just because some things weren't done to your liking

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: miaasma] #624200
30/09/17 09:19 PM
30/09/17 09:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
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HUcast Offline
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Originally Posted By: miaasma
this feels very melodramatic

you can criticize a game in all of these ways, but it's weird to behave as though the developers came to your house and poured milk on your family just because some things weren't done to your liking


Well, it is somewhat angry, but the example of them coming out of the blue and pouring milk on his family is sillier. He probably spent full price for the game like the rest of us, and expected... more?

That being said, I do hope that some of these issues make it through to the dev team, Larien is a studio I hold dear because they make the games many do not. But if they continue on the path of simplifying mechanics and dumbing things down, they will become like any other game dev. If that ever happens, I will take my business elsewhere.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: miaasma] #624215
30/09/17 09:32 PM
30/09/17 09:32 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: miaasma
this feels very melodramatic

you can criticize a game in all of these ways, but it's weird to behave as though the developers came to your house and poured milk on your family just because some things weren't done to your liking


Typical fanboy hyperbolized comment to try to discredit critique, it is not gonna work with me.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624225
30/09/17 09:39 PM
30/09/17 09:39 PM
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Bokajon Offline
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After having endured many of your posts on this forum, Zherot, here are a few suggestions:

1.) Find another game to play. Judging from your posts on this forum it is very obvious that you really really hate this game, so maybe it's best for you to move on. Other fathers also have beautiful daughters.

2.) Learn how to mod. The things you keep hammering on with your posts on this forum can all be modded.

3.) Download some mods. Oups, why make it hard if it can be easy...modding yourself is too much work, right? So here's the the funny thing: Most of what you criticize has ALREADY been addressed by mods on the Workshop. Two weeks after launch! Lucky you.

4.) Go and make your own game. You probably won't do that, but this one would probably help you the most. Create your own game. If you do you will soon realize how much work and effort it takes to actually make something that has value to others. You will learn that you cannot please everyone, especially not the Zherots of this world.

5.) Go and see a psychiatrist. I don't want to be personal here, but many - actually most - of your posts contain insults, hatred or other forms of negativity. A lot of them look like this: "What I say is factually true and everyone who says otherwise is a stupid fanboy." Now it could theoretically be that you are right. However, there is also the possibility that you are just delusional and living in your own little world of sadness and misery. A good way to find out would be to see a psychiatrist.

Just some suggestions. Take them or leave them.

Last edited by Bokajon; 30/09/17 09:51 PM.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Bokajon] #624231
30/09/17 09:50 PM
30/09/17 09:50 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Zherot Offline OP
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Zherot  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Bokajon
After having endured many of your posts on this forum, Zherot, here are a few suggestions:

1.) Find another game to play. This suggestion is pretty simple: It is very obvious that you really hate this game, so maybe it's best for you to move on. Other fathers also have beautiful daughters.

2.) Learn how to mod. The things you keep hammering on with your posts on this forum can all be modded.

3.) Download some mods. Oups, why make it hard if it can be easy...modding yourself is too much work, right? So here's the the funny thing: Most of what you criticize has ALREADY been addressed by mods on the Workshop. Two weeks after launch! Lucky you.

4.) Go and make your own game. You probably won't do that, but this one would probably help you the most. Create your own game. If you do you will soon realize how much work and effort it takes to actually make something that has value to others. You will learn that you cannot please everyone, especially not the Zherots of this world.

5.) Go and see a psychiatrist. I don't want to be personal here, but many - actually most - of your posts contain insults, hatred or other forms of negativity. A lot of them look like this: "What I say is factually true and everyone who says otherwise is a stupid fanboy." Now it could theoretically be that you are right. However, there is also the possibility that you are just delusional and living in your own little world of sadness and misery. A good way to find out would be to see a psychiatrist.

Just some suggestions. Take them or leave them.


What a surprise another fanboy hyperbolized comment that ignore the argument and attack me directly.

Try again.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624236
30/09/17 10:07 PM
30/09/17 10:07 PM
Joined: May 2010
Posts: 3,176
The Frog & Hounds
vometia Offline

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The Frog & Hounds
Guys. Discuss the matter politely and quit flaming each other. You know better than this and a couple of you are risking being uninvited if you don't stop with the attitude.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: HUcast] #624243
30/09/17 10:25 PM
30/09/17 10:25 PM
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miaasma Offline
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Originally Posted By: HUcast
Originally Posted By: miaasma
this feels very melodramatic

you can criticize a game in all of these ways, but it's weird to behave as though the developers came to your house and poured milk on your family just because some things weren't done to your liking


Well, it is somewhat angry, but the example of them coming out of the blue and pouring milk on his family is sillier. He probably spent full price for the game like the rest of us, and expected... more?

That being said, I do hope that some of these issues make it through to the dev team, Larien is a studio I hold dear because they make the games many do not. But if they continue on the path of simplifying mechanics and dumbing things down, they will become like any other game dev. If that ever happens, I will take my business elsewhere.

we all spent full price for the game and we all have our criticisms. it doesn't mean that the game is bad, or that people are "fanboys" for enjoying them despite its flaws. it also doesn't warrant this overly impassioned response

i understand being passionate about improving a game made by a developer you've grown to respect, but this thread's tone more frames these issues as a personal attack against a customer rather than design choices you don't appreciate. moreover, it reflects poorly on the thread creator when any and all criticism of his behaviour is met with hostile responses and accusations of bland fanboyism, and doesn't promote any kind of discussion

there are a lot of threads that i've read on this forum already which address all of these issues (and more) in ways that at the very least promote discussion from people who expect different things of a game like this. a thread like this in which everyone who disagrees or points out the latent hostility doesn't do this

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: miaasma] #624246
30/09/17 10:40 PM
30/09/17 10:40 PM
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Bokajon Offline
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Originally Posted By: miaasma

we all spent full price for the game and we all have our criticisms. it doesn't mean that the game is bad, or that people are "fanboys" for enjoying them despite its flaws. it also doesn't warrant this overly impassioned response

i understand being passionate about improving a game made by a developer you've grown to respect, but this thread's tone more frames these issues as a personal attack against a customer rather than design choices you don't appreciate. moreover, it reflects poorly on the thread creator when any and all criticism of his behaviour is met with hostile responses and accusations of bland fanboyism, and doesn't promote any kind of discussion

there are a lot of threads that i've read on this forum already which address all of these issues (and more) in ways that at the very least promote discussion from people who expect different things of a game like this. a thread like this in which everyone who disagrees or points out the latent hostility doesn't do this

Spot on.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624256
30/09/17 10:52 PM
30/09/17 10:52 PM
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Gaidax Offline
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The game is fine and anything YOU consider not to be fine can be modded and was done already.

I think the game is great and the fact that I am finishing my second playthrough just emphasizes this, because I have tendency to not finish games, so anything I finish and twice moreso is great in my book.

As a side note, there seems to be quite a bit of unhealthy fixation mixed with insults to everyone around going on with OP. Not sure why.

Last edited by Gaidax; 30/09/17 10:52 PM.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624261
30/09/17 11:09 PM
30/09/17 11:09 PM
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nateious Offline
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Of that list,

1-Armor system.
2-Attributes are a husk of what they were.
4-AP limit.
5-Turn order.

Those are the items that stick out the most to me as changes I don't really care for. That being said, I don't find the D:OS2 unfun, I just prefer how D:OS handled these. I'd be happy if those items could all be fixed with a mod, even if the base game never changes back to D:OS style.

I know the AP cap can be changed, and I know that mods can remove armor. What I don't know is if the old percentage style CC effect system could be modded back in, nor if attributes can be changed so they have more similar bonuses to what we saw in D:OS1 (for example, is it possible to replicate how constitution used to raise maximum AP or implement speed which then would raise turn / recover AP?)

I'm pretty sure, based on what others have said, the initiative isn't moddable. It would be nice if that changed in a future update.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624263
30/09/17 11:13 PM
30/09/17 11:13 PM
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My commentary on what the OP said ...

The Armor system is a mixed bag, though the scaling is the biggest issue. I've been playing with the reduced bloat mod and armor feels a lot less frustrating.

The attribute system ... I will agree that they really made the stats boring. As to how to fix it, that's a big amount of debate.

The memory system isn't bad in and of itself. Many games only give you a limited number of "slots" for skills, which encourages you to think about which skills you want to actively use. Perhaps it could stand for some tweaks and adjustments, but that's ANY system.

The AP limit is a mixed bag of good and bad at the same time. Having a limited pool of points means you have to think about your actions and plan things out. I don't see this as a bad thing at all.

The round robin for initiative ... that I will agree was poorly thought out.

AI always cheats. Always. In every game. They always seem to know when one of your characters is weak. The AI in this game is actually better than AI I've seen in other games. I think the issue is more that they made Loremaster too powerful for inspecting enemies. If you want to suss out an enemy's weakness, it should be a skill that takes TIME in combat.

There being no Physical Resistance while there is Magic Resist is actually quite normal for games. Usually because Magic attacks are a lot stronger and you're encouraged to take advantage of low resistances. So its a mixed bag of good and bad at the same time.

I can't comment on money making or Source as I've only played the early part of the game, where I expect that money is going to be brutally hard to get hold of. And since I've only played the early part, I haven't gained access to source abilities yet. I've just been busy with other games and the like.

Overall, I've been enjoying the game. It's not horrible or broken. The areas where there ARE issues, there are mods or the devs have actually been working on fixing them. Some of the things modded should have been fixed before launch, but that's water under the bridge.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: miaasma] #624270
30/09/17 11:35 PM
30/09/17 11:35 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
Z
Zherot Offline OP
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Zherot  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: miaasma
Originally Posted By: HUcast
Originally Posted By: miaasma
this feels very melodramatic

you can criticize a game in all of these ways, but it's weird to behave as though the developers came to your house and poured milk on your family just because some things weren't done to your liking


Well, it is somewhat angry, but the example of them coming out of the blue and pouring milk on his family is sillier. He probably spent full price for the game like the rest of us, and expected... more?

That being said, I do hope that some of these issues make it through to the dev team, Larien is a studio I hold dear because they make the games many do not. But if they continue on the path of simplifying mechanics and dumbing things down, they will become like any other game dev. If that ever happens, I will take my business elsewhere.

we all spent full price for the game and we all have our criticisms. it doesn't mean that the game is bad, or that people are "fanboys" for enjoying them despite its flaws. it also doesn't warrant this overly impassioned response

i understand being passionate about improving a game made by a developer you've grown to respect, but this thread's tone more frames these issues as a personal attack against a customer rather than design choices you don't appreciate. moreover, it reflects poorly on the thread creator when any and all criticism of his behaviour is met with hostile responses and accusations of bland fanboyism, and doesn't promote any kind of discussion

there are a lot of threads that i've read on this forum already which address all of these issues (and more) in ways that at the very least promote discussion from people who expect different things of a game like this. a thread like this in which everyone who disagrees or points out the latent hostility doesn't do this


I love when this people see stuff with one hand on their eyes so they only see what they want.

In no way in my post i made any personal attacks to anyone or the developers i made an honest list of everything that is wrong in the game and listed also many threads that support this list.

Then these people came and both tried to dismiss my post by using personal attacks and hyperbolized comments about what i said just like you are doing right now with your comment trying to make myself the agressor (which is false) but you don't say anything about the other people comments that came directly to attack myself instead of talking about the topic.

If you are not going to talk bout the topic but my persona then leave you are not welcome.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624272
30/09/17 11:41 PM
30/09/17 11:41 PM
Joined: Dec 2016
Posts: 96
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Johnny_Devo Offline
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Johnny_Devo  Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zherot
trying to make myself the agressor (which is false)


I just want to point out that this doesn't help your case:

Originally Posted By: Zherot's Signature
Fanboy Killer.


That said, ever since the first time I saw you on the forums (I had given an honest assessment of how I view the game as it is, and you decided to reply with, and I quote, "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA"), I've seen nothing but aggressive and negative rhetoric coming from you.

You really need to chill.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: KentDA] #624273
30/09/17 11:44 PM
30/09/17 11:44 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Zherot Offline OP
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Zherot  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: KentDA
My commentary on what the OP said ...

The Armor system is a mixed bag, though the scaling is the biggest issue. I've been playing with the reduced bloat mod and armor feels a lot less frustrating.

The attribute system ... I will agree that they really made the stats boring. As to how to fix it, that's a big amount of debate.

The memory system isn't bad in and of itself. Many games only give you a limited number of "slots" for skills, which encourages you to think about which skills you want to actively use. Perhaps it could stand for some tweaks and adjustments, but that's ANY system.

The AP limit is a mixed bag of good and bad at the same time. Having a limited pool of points means you have to think about your actions and plan things out. I don't see this as a bad thing at all.

The round robin for initiative ... that I will agree was poorly thought out.

AI always cheats. Always. In every game. They always seem to know when one of your characters is weak. The AI in this game is actually better than AI I've seen in other games. I think the issue is more that they made Loremaster too powerful for inspecting enemies. If you want to suss out an enemy's weakness, it should be a skill that takes TIME in combat.

There being no Physical Resistance while there is Magic Resist is actually quite normal for games. Usually because Magic attacks are a lot stronger and you're encouraged to take advantage of low resistances. So its a mixed bag of good and bad at the same time.

I can't comment on money making or Source as I've only played the early part of the game, where I expect that money is going to be brutally hard to get hold of. And since I've only played the early part, I haven't gained access to source abilities yet. I've just been busy with other games and the like.

Overall, I've been enjoying the game. It's not horrible or broken. The areas where there ARE issues, there are mods or the devs have actually been working on fixing them. Some of the things modded should have been fixed before launch, but that's water under the bridge.


Memory system encouraging "thinking" is a falacy just like when people say the armor mechanic encourages "tactics", you know what people do when they don't have a skill equipped for the fight?, they reload and put the skill in the memory slot... there goes your thinking and your whatever, it is just crap.

Ap limit is just bad too, you will end up using the same stuff over and over and over again and you never feel progression in this manner making combat essentially the same from start to finish.

Youa re wrong on Phsycal too because armor it is used to mitigate physical attacks and in this game there is no armor in fact there is magical armor and resitances on top of that, magic is completely over nerfed in this game while psysical attackers get a free pass, the best party you can build in this game is full physical people.

Making money is terrible but you will see, and Source you will agree too when you find out that skills that were normally used in the first game now require source, remember meteor shower or any of those powerful magics?, they now requiere source, enjoy.


Last edited by Zherot; 30/09/17 11:46 PM.

Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Johnny_Devo] #624276
30/09/17 11:45 PM
30/09/17 11:45 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Zherot Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Johnny_Devo
Originally Posted By: Zherot
trying to make myself the agressor (which is false)


I just want to point out that this doesn't help your case:

Originally Posted By: Zherot's Signature
Fanboy Killer.


That said, ever since the first time I saw you on the forums (I had given an honest assessment of how I view the game as it is, and you decided to reply with, and I quote, "AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA"), I've seen nothing but aggressive and negative rhetoric coming from you.

You really need to chill.


You can leave any time you want i will not answer and fall for your baiting.


Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624278
30/09/17 11:51 PM
30/09/17 11:51 PM
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Sotanaht Offline
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There IS a form of physical resist. It's called dodge chance. I don't really like that it's chance based only, but it does exist and it does mitigate as much physical damage as magic resist does over the long run. Evasive Aura/Uncanny Evasion is downright overpowered even.

Of course, there are some undodgeable physical skills such as Battle Stomp, but I feel like that's more of a small oversight.

Last edited by Sotanaht; 30/09/17 11:53 PM.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Sotanaht] #624283
30/09/17 11:57 PM
30/09/17 11:57 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 131
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Zherot Offline OP
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Zherot  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Sotanaht
There IS a form of physical resist. It's called dodge chance.


You are trying too hard dude, please.

http://divinity.wikia.com/wiki/Defenses_(Divinity:_Original_Sin)


Fanboy Killer.
Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624284
30/09/17 11:57 PM
30/09/17 11:57 PM
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Posts: 96
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Johnny_Devo Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zherot
You can leave any time you want i will not answer and fall for your baiting.


Ah. I should have seen it sooner. You've all the makings of a forum troll. Picking something with even the slightest amount of controversy, latching aggressively to the side that "goes against the grain" as it were, insulting anyone who disagrees with you, and then accusing anyone who calls you out on it of doing the very thing you're doing.

Well played. Had me going for a bit.

Re: Everything that is wrong with the game [Re: Zherot] #624285
30/09/17 11:58 PM
30/09/17 11:58 PM
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Gaidax Offline
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Originally Posted By: Zherot

Making money is terrible but you will see, and Source you will agree too when you find out that skills that were normally used in the first game now require source, remember meteor shower or any of those powerful magics?, they now requiere source, enjoy.


Money making is ridiculously easy and Source is great exactly because of what you said.

In D:OS1 I was spamming those Meteor Showers like no tomorrow for how powerful it was.

In my opinion spells of this caliber is simply not something you are supposed to use on every pack of rag tag bandits and shit and Source acting as a limiter accomplishes that fine, IMO.


On the matter of physical being the thing, I think it's because of scaling with weapons, which should be tamed a bit, things do start getting out of hand quickly at level 16+ and by level 20 you simply do ridiculous shit with basic attacks. Really, I'd go ahead and say they should cut weapon damage scaling by 35% if not more at these levels.

D:OS1 2h balls to the wall speccing and rangers were not kittens either and 1 decent onslaught from a buffed to the teeth 2h guy could oneshot minibosses, but that was like pump all the buffs in one guy and let it loose, here if you do this you will take out half the enemy force.


But well, snowballing to godhood is sort of D:OS thing it seems, in both games you start as a scavenger bottom feeder and end up steamrolling everything. Maybe D:OS3 will fix the curve a bit there.

Last edited by Gaidax; 01/10/17 12:00 AM.
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