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Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653163
20/06/19 11:59 AM
20/06/19 11:59 AM
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Sordak Online content
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On evil: let me be mild evil.
Let me do something for my own gain, let me exploit others.

Evil doesnt mean literaly kicking dogs, evil doesnt mean murdering innocents.
Evil can simply mean selfishness or making heartless descisions.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653167
20/06/19 02:49 PM
20/06/19 02:49 PM
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Salem, MA, USA
kanisatha Offline
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The biggest problem Larian faces in making BG3 is their own hubris. Being told repeatedly by gushing and fawning reporters and critics that their game is the "awesomest game ever made," even though this is far from true, may result in Larian actually believing that BS and saying to themselves: "We already made the awesomest game ever, so why not just do the same exact thing again?"

In creating BG3, Larian would be very well served by talking to and sincerely listening to people who DON'T gush and fawn all over D:OS2 and who have critical things to say about that game.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: kanisatha] #653168
20/06/19 03:24 PM
20/06/19 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
The biggest problem Larian faces in making BG3 is their own hubris. Being told repeatedly by gushing and fawning reporters and critics that their game is the "awesomest game ever made," even though this is far from true, may result in Larian actually believing that BS and saying to themselves: "We already made the awesomest game ever, so why not just do the same exact thing again?"

In creating BG3, Larian would be very well served by talking to and sincerely listening to people who DON'T gush and fawn all over D:OS2 and who have critical things to say about that game.


well said. if you watched kotaku interview, that journalist consistently been pushing his own request to sven telling him please be turn-based. larian already made 2 turn-based games and seems rather successful with it. seeing that their whole fanbase were turn-based purist as well as the game highly pitched for co-op and multiplayer (where the original baldur's gates were greatly loved for it's singleplayer and combat) and DnD i afraid i'm kind of expecting to see a DOS2 clone with Baldur's Gate on it. If you watched some of Sven interviews (i watched them all), Sven were saying it's not a DOS2 clone simply for a few things: DND, Class-Based compared Classless ,Baldur's Gate settings and the serious/gritty visual representation of the trailer. To me these alone cannot cover it as not being a divinity clone.

What they are planning really has me worried as a Baldur's Gate fan. It will be perfectly fine with me if they use another title such as Baldur's Gate Online instead of calling it Baldur's Gate 3. It's just simply isn't BG3 as it has no continuation of the Bhaalspawn story and BIG possibility it's not RTwP.

Last edited by Archaven; 20/06/19 03:27 PM.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653169
20/06/19 03:40 PM
20/06/19 03:40 PM
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man you people are salty

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: Archaven] #653172
20/06/19 04:07 PM
20/06/19 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Archaven


What they are planning really has me worried as a Baldur's Gate fan. It will be perfectly fine with me if they use another title such as Baldur's Gate Online instead of calling it Baldur's Gate 3. It's just simply isn't BG3 as it has no continuation of the Bhaalspawn story and BIG possibility it's not RTwP.


The Bhaalspawn story ended with Murder in Baldur's Gate Pen and Paper adventure that Wizard of the Coast released.

https://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/murder-baldurs-gate

But that doesn't mean Bhaal doesn't have a hand in it. We will have to wait and see.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653178
20/06/19 11:02 PM
20/06/19 11:02 PM
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how about a cycle of day and night in the game because have spells that work only after one day when spend
At launch our later make a multiplayer like neverwinter nights most inovative multiplayer that i already see
Dont make much puzzles( how we see in game os larian) this turn game slow and boring
Improve, ALOT how we find our companions. The form that we make a team was bad in dos and dos 2, folow good exemples of BG 1,2 and games of obsidian.
Reach at epic lvls.

Last edited by igorvm; 20/06/19 11:22 PM.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: Sordak] #653179
20/06/19 11:32 PM
20/06/19 11:32 PM
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Originally Posted by Sordak
On evil: let me be mild evil.
Let me do something for my own gain, let me exploit others.

Evil doesnt mean literaly kicking dogs, evil doesnt mean murdering innocents.
Evil can simply mean selfishness or making heartless descisions.


Yarp!

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653180
20/06/19 11:43 PM
20/06/19 11:43 PM
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no real idea what is meant by puzzles, the OS games dont have a lot of them, unless you mean the path of blood in 2, i guess that coutns as a puzzle, but you can skip the puzzle part by talking to NPCs some more.
Finding companions is somehting well have to see how they do it. Sven said he wants to focus on the party and as a multiplayer part wehre everyone is a relevant character.

The question is if companions will fill the "Origins" that oculd be played by PCs or not. In OS2 this is the case, in BG it would feel strange tbh.
But if this is th ecas,e then it is required for the NPCs to be there from the start.

Epic levels is... eh.
DnD kind of falls apart at epic levels.
If anyhting, leave it to an expansion, MOTB did high level stuff pretty well but i think it did that because it was a large expansion and you had almost an entire game in which you started from a prety high level already

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653185
21/06/19 03:15 AM
21/06/19 03:15 AM
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i play all sort of games since 80 decade and i never saw soo many puzzles like dos 2, if game have 100 hour you spend 4 hour playng indeed and 96 doing puzzles(our looking for key in map), i play i know. bg 2 have 1 our 2 puzzles brcause of that the game flow much better than dos 2, larian need learn about this
Other think that bg2 do better than any other game.. is you fear h=who have more power than you, if you see a lich i know that is a matter of time thatt you will die if you isnt at a high lvl, who dont remember the iconic lich kangax of bg 2 ? I belive other think that should back from bg series is spells hit kill , like imprisionament, petrify, and death spells, you fail in save and is game over
Sorry my english isnt my language mother.

Last edited by igorvm; 21/06/19 03:26 AM.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653186
21/06/19 03:27 AM
21/06/19 03:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cyseal
-timestop spell for wizards and spellcasters
-new neverseen locations
-dark fantasy tone
-rogue stones could lead you to the lairs of the liches, demiliches etc.
-dynamic environment design for some secrets (hidden walls, destructible walls, spell-locked doors)
-interesting companion dynamic (Yoshimo can betray you in due time)
-exploring various neverseen planes and realms through the portals
-drow city and spider queen boss encounter
-intrigues, conspiracies, mysteries and rituals
-witches factions
-mimic monsters (various designs with traps)
-wicked and twisted characters, monsters and bosses
-floating city https://i.pinimg.com/originals/4e/73/de/4e73deb478031e1d6aaa651380d75398.jpg
.
.
.


Yes! To all of those!

And that castle would be an amazing location!!

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: kanisatha] #653189
21/06/19 04:13 AM
21/06/19 04:13 AM
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kasapnecmi Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
The biggest problem Larian faces in making BG3 is their own hubris. Being told repeatedly by gushing and fawning reporters and critics that their game is the "awesomest game ever made," even though this is far from true, may result in Larian actually believing that BS and saying to themselves: "We already made the awesomest game ever, so why not just do the same exact thing again?"

In creating BG3, Larian would be very well served by talking to and sincerely listening to people who DON'T gush and fawn all over D:OS2 and who have critical things to say about that game.


This is actually a very important point, and Larian's biggest disadvantage at the moment. They are being treated by everyone like the gods of rpgs, which inevitably makes them feel like they know the best about everything. It looks like they will apply all these changes and simplifications to D&D mechanics and more specifically to Baldur's Gate, disguised under 'modernisation' but actually we all know it will be only dumbing down so that average 10 year old boy with the attention span of a dog does not get frustrated in the first 3 seconds he doesn't get what he wants.

There's a reason why Baldur's Gate series is considered the most successful rpg series of all time, and a reason why still a huge number of people still play it instead of many newer RPGs, Divinity included. Assuming things that worked in Divinity will work in Baldur's Gate by default is the biggest mistake Larian seems to have been in progress of making, based on the information revealed in the interviews. Wizards of the Coast approving these changes still does not confirm they are in the right way either, because Wizards of the Coast has a different agenda of its own. They want D&D to be more popular, and think making it more aligned with current game trends will provide that. But actually, it will make it lose its uniqueness and authenticity.

I can already foresee the huge amount of backlash that will follow the release of Baldur's Gate III. It doesn't matter the amount of graphical improvements they will make, they are irrelevant compared to the feel and atmosphere of the game. My only wish is that I am wrong, or they come down to earth and start listening to the actual fans of Baldur's Gate series, not just their own Larian worshippers.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653197
21/06/19 06:32 AM
21/06/19 06:32 AM
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Larians are treated like that because they are the only developer who managed to make a CRPG and actually have it turn out good.
The only other ones i can think of are pathfinder kingmaker and shadowrun returns dragonfall.
And those werent nearly as much of a commercial success.

And im sorry waht simplifications. DnD is an incredible simple system. 2E was even more simplistic.
And no, THAC0 is not complex, people just got confused that lower numbers are better. BG didnt even have opportunity attacks and you are going to tell me modern RPGs are more casual than that?
Skyrim is maybe, but we arent talking about Skyrim here, we are talking about OS2, Pathfinder Kingmaker , PoE, Age of Decadence, Shadowrun and the like. Almost all of these games added new things without removing old things.

You people keep beeing salty about..... larian for some reason. Just admit it, you are a nostalgic Boomer and no matter who makes this, you will always be dissatisfied.
You will never be happy because you think it will tarnish your memory of an old game that realy wasnt as good as you think it was.

AS for WOTC: what they want is a good game. WOTC hasnt made a lot of DnD games and those that it made all failed. Thats because the companies they had at hand didnt know what to do, they all tried to recreate baldurs gate. I mean Beamdog is literaly a studio who did nothing but rework baldurs gate.
Turns out, living in the past does not work.
And if they would hire Obsidian to do it, and Obsidian would make Baldurs gate 3 in the infinity engine or their new engine thats basically the same, youd still hate it because its new.
And other people would hate it because its not innovative. Just like nobody liked siege of dragonspear.
Because nobody needs a Baldurs Gate addon today, especialy not such a lazy one that doenst improve the game at all.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653200
21/06/19 07:20 AM
21/06/19 07:20 AM
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Posts: 3,194
The Frog & Hounds
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The Frog & Hounds
Just a reminder to keep it polite, please. Making assertions about other forum members tends to generate more heat than light. And it makes the mods grumpy.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: kasapnecmi] #653208
21/06/19 02:31 PM
21/06/19 02:31 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by kasapnecmi
Originally Posted by kanisatha
The biggest problem Larian faces in making BG3 is their own hubris. Being told repeatedly by gushing and fawning reporters and critics that their game is the "awesomest game ever made," even though this is far from true, may result in Larian actually believing that BS and saying to themselves: "We already made the awesomest game ever, so why not just do the same exact thing again?"

In creating BG3, Larian would be very well served by talking to and sincerely listening to people who DON'T gush and fawn all over D:OS2 and who have critical things to say about that game.


This is actually a very important point, and Larian's biggest disadvantage at the moment. They are being treated by everyone like the gods of rpgs, which inevitably makes them feel like they know the best about everything. It looks like they will apply all these changes and simplifications to D&D mechanics and more specifically to Baldur's Gate, disguised under 'modernisation' but actually we all know it will be only dumbing down so that average 10 year old boy with the attention span of a dog does not get frustrated in the first 3 seconds he doesn't get what he wants.

There's a reason why Baldur's Gate series is considered the most successful rpg series of all time, and a reason why still a huge number of people still play it instead of many newer RPGs, Divinity included. Assuming things that worked in Divinity will work in Baldur's Gate by default is the biggest mistake Larian seems to have been in progress of making, based on the information revealed in the interviews. Wizards of the Coast approving these changes still does not confirm they are in the right way either, because Wizards of the Coast has a different agenda of its own. They want D&D to be more popular, and think making it more aligned with current game trends will provide that. But actually, it will make it lose its uniqueness and authenticity.

I can already foresee the huge amount of backlash that will follow the release of Baldur's Gate III. It doesn't matter the amount of graphical improvements they will make, they are irrelevant compared to the feel and atmosphere of the game. My only wish is that I am wrong, or they come down to earth and start listening to the actual fans of Baldur's Gate series, not just their own Larian worshippers.

Exactly. All very true (pathetic Larian sycophants not withstanding). If every single person who bought D:OS2 buys this game (because they justifiably believe it is a D:OS2 clone in BG packaging), and a few other D&D fans also buy the game (because they get taken in by the Baldur's Gate title), it will be a colossal failure for Larian as a AAA game. So Larian has to dumb down the game from core D&D 5e rules to draw in millions of casual gamers who are typically turned off by the very mentioning of "RPG" which they interpret as hard/complicated/boring. And this is well beyond the dumbing down that Larian did with its D:OS games with their cartoonish setting, superficial characters, simplistic rules and mechanics, silly "humor," and gimmicky "environmental reactivity" (Oh look! An oil barrel, perfectly placed! Let's blow it up. Boom! HAHAHA!).

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: kanisatha] #653216
21/06/19 05:48 PM
21/06/19 05:48 PM
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hotmac Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
[quote=kasapnecmi][quote=kanisatha]

Exactly. All very true (pathetic Larian sycophants not withstanding). If every single person who bought D:OS2 buys this game (because they justifiably believe it is a D:OS2 clone in BG packaging), and a few other D&D fans also buy the game (because they get taken in by the Baldur's Gate title), it will be a colossal failure for Larian as a AAA game. So Larian has to dumb down the game from core D&D 5e rules to draw in millions of casual gamers who are typically turned off by the very mentioning of "RPG" which they interpret as hard/complicated/boring. And this is well beyond the dumbing down that Larian did with its D:OS games with their cartoonish setting, superficial characters, simplistic rules and mechanics, silly "humor," and gimmicky "environmental reactivity" (Oh look! An oil barrel, perfectly placed! Let's blow it up. Boom! HAHAHA!).


I could not DISAGREE with the above statement! RPGs are not dumbed down/boring/cartoonish or with superficial characters, is Red Dead Redemption1/2 boring/dumbed down or how about The Witcher? And there is noting wrong with humor or any other side foolishness in a game, in fact that gives it some character.

And as far as "easy" DOS2 is not easy and if anyone says it is than god help them for no game will satisfy that person (in WOW they call that an "elitist jerk" and WOW talk about cartoonish)

I love RPS for all the that they offer, great story, humor, fighting/battle, silliness or whatever the devs put in so that its not just a straight line to the story.

Yes, once the player finishes the game, it can get boring quickly (no replayability) but otherwise, RPGs are the best.

Reading your comment makes me ask, what in the hell do you want in a game, please gives us all a list.


Regards

Last edited by hotmac; 21/06/19 05:48 PM.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: hotmac] #653219
21/06/19 05:56 PM
21/06/19 05:56 PM
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Salem, MA, USA
kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by hotmac
Originally Posted by kanisatha
[quote=kasapnecmi][quote=kanisatha]

Exactly. All very true (pathetic Larian sycophants not withstanding). If every single person who bought D:OS2 buys this game (because they justifiably believe it is a D:OS2 clone in BG packaging), and a few other D&D fans also buy the game (because they get taken in by the Baldur's Gate title), it will be a colossal failure for Larian as a AAA game. So Larian has to dumb down the game from core D&D 5e rules to draw in millions of casual gamers who are typically turned off by the very mentioning of "RPG" which they interpret as hard/complicated/boring. And this is well beyond the dumbing down that Larian did with its D:OS games with their cartoonish setting, superficial characters, simplistic rules and mechanics, silly "humor," and gimmicky "environmental reactivity" (Oh look! An oil barrel, perfectly placed! Let's blow it up. Boom! HAHAHA!).


I could not DISAGREE with the above statement! RPGs are not dumbed down/boring/cartoonish or with superficial characters, is Red Dead Redemption1/2 boring/dumbed down or how about The Witcher? And there is noting wrong with humor or any other side foolishness in a game, in fact that gives it some character.

Where did I say any of this towards RPGs? I said these things specifically towards the D:OS games.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: kanisatha] #653232
21/06/19 08:28 PM
21/06/19 08:28 PM
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hotmac Offline
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[/quote]
Where did I say any of this towards RPGs? I said these things specifically towards the D:OS games.[/quote]

Im playing DOS2 right now (late, yes) and I'm having fun, Fort Joy was tough for me as I made an error in class selection but I told myself that I would not restart and I made it out of the fort. The game is very relaxing/fun and frustrating at times to play.

I don't think that DOS2 was as well constructed as far as class selection (once you where in the game) as DOS1. The one thing I hate/hated was when you met your possible companion and had to select their role, there was no way for you to know what stats they would have (more or less) unless you went online and looked it up somewhere, I don't believe that should have been designed that way! (that's where I screwed up, have two casters with Hydro and Air), you should have been able to see the stats in game before picking a role for them.

I think the DOS games have a lot of replayability to them, the story would be the same but at least you can roll play many different characters, unlike lets say in Red Dead or The Witcher

But to each his own, I do hope that they stay true to the BG "style" and not try to make it like DOS games, I do want voice acting in the game, without the VA I would have not played DOS1 or 2, which is why I wont play Pillars of Eternity, I play on console and I don't want to go blind reading the screen for xhours per play, also, VA adds a certain ambience to the game, narration and NPC's talking.

So, if I misunderstood your commentary, well, its a short thread and everyone does not get their point across precisely, I'm sure you and others probably wont get the "jest" of what I'm saying as well.

We will see what Larian comes up with, a lot of these threads are kind of pointless because they are going to do what they are going to do.

Happy gaming

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653252
22/06/19 02:22 PM
22/06/19 02:22 PM
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mhroczyn Offline
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- castle system sth like in NWN2,
- meaningful romances not tainted with SJW bullshit and political correctness, ahh Viconia...
- make elves look georgeus more Tolkien like style (I'm writing this because I saw what you did to elves in DOS2, despite different promotional materials, you want sth ugly you have half-orcs, gnomes and some humans:),
- if you're going to include tieflings and aasmiars make them look more like in 3rd D&D edition and not like 4th...
- companions quests with meaningful endings and consequences in campaign gameplay,
- surprise me (escape from tarrasque scenario, divine interventions, vampire / werewolf system, succubus hidden under your companion skin, whatever!
- references from previous games,
- if you worship god make it count, dialogues, NPC interactions, privileges in their temples, etc.
- make elven city, seriously I didn't saw even single elven city in any D&D based game like wtf? send us to Evermeet or sth... (wood elves doesn't count),
- subraces?

Last edited by mhroczyn; 22/06/19 02:24 PM.
Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653632
05/07/19 03:20 PM
05/07/19 03:20 PM
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cyseal Offline OP
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I just want to add:

  • Murder mystery quest - there was quest in district which lead you to the murder.
    Murder mystery could be imagined in very interesting way involving solving puzzles, getting trapped in a plane and escape it, finding the clues for someone framed,
    and solving big conspiracy behind it.
  • Finding strange items which are cursed trap doors to another realm. Player would need to find his way back.
  • Puzzle boss design - in boss arena there are couple sources of power which render boss immortal.
    Player needs to find a way to deactivate or destroy those sources in order to fight the boss.

Re: Suggestions list and brainstorm ideas [Re: cyseal] #653729
07/07/19 11:12 AM
07/07/19 11:12 AM
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cyseal Offline OP
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I would suggest that thief gameplay should get improved a lot.

Hide in shadows, sneak behind A.I., laying better traps would need improvement to get more dynamic and interesting thief gameplay.

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