Larian Studios Forums Beyond Divinity (English) General A few comments about the next upcoming patch

I'd say before the end of the week. Else it would be more then a couple of days.

I don't even have the game yet, but I'll just say: Thank you guys! I hope by the time my copy arrives in the mail (should be before next week wednesday), I'll be able to play the debugged game <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Keep hanging in there. It must be hard to release a game, only to find out that you get douzens of complaints regarding bugs <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shame.gif" alt="" />

>>> "why do companys always have a sell now fix later atittude? Don't they use testers anymore?" <<<

A very valid question. But, there are a few factors to keep in mind:

1.) How complex is the game:
If you have ever done anything as relatively simple as setting up a website, you know that no matter how much you test things out you will always miss something and have to do tweeking later.

Older RPG's were very linear, you have to do A before you do B to then do C. Testing that kind of game is very easy. Now look at Beyond Divinity. It is very non-linear and allows you the freedom to do most things in any order that you choose. As a tester in a game with nearly endless possibilities how can you possibly test every circumstance? Considering that playing the game straight through will take 80+ hours, there is no way every possible action can be tested. Look at the MMPORPG's, some of them have been online for well over a year or two, have gone through extensive Alpha and Beta testing, yet new problems are still encountered and patches are frequent.

2.) Is the game breaking new ground:
If the game is just a clone of another game, testing again is rather simple. But if the game introduces new concepts Pandora's Box is opened. People will always try possibilities that no one even thought of during the development and testing phases. There are basically two options then, tell your customer not to do that, or eliminate the problem.

3.) Financial limitations and pressure from the investors:
The Computer Games magazine has an interesting interview with Richard Gariott where he talks a bit about the limitations he had to work under while making the Ultima series. When a company tells you that you will not exceed your budget and your deadline is 12 months, you do the very best you can within those limitations. This factor alone can make or break a game, and has (think Origin/EA, SirTech, New World Computing/3DO - companies that produced fantastic RPG series, but did not have the financial backing of a Sony or Microsoft). Actually Black Isle Studios and Blizzard have the right idea. When asked what their release dates are they just say "When it is ready", but they seems to be the exception.

4.) Is the game really worth the effort:
If the game is crapware most people could care less about bugs. They will play the game part way through until they throw it into the bottom drawer of their desk and run out to spend another $9.99 on more crapware. The developer is also not interested in investing any more money in the game.

But games like the NWN series, the Divinity series, the BG series, etc. are gems in the RPG community. The developers will do what it takes to make the game flawless, and the fan base will point out the problems because they want the game flawless as well.

4.) How familiar are the testers with the game:
If a tester is already familiar with the game they pretty much know how to play the game. They can not test every conceivable possibility in a game or the development time would be in years rather than months.

So the bottom line for me: If the game is fun, relativily bug free, and supported with patches, it is a winner. I also assume that many of the problems that have been encountered in BD stem from a few core sources that Larian will root out and fix. Who could ask for more?

please include a SELECT ALL button for picking up things in chests and bags <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

amd

a CLEAN ALL button like in Diablo to clean up your backpacks neatly.

This is great! Bravo Larian! I'm loving this game already, and these additions/fixes sound sweet! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/kissyou.gif" alt="" />

Older RPG's were very linear, you have to do A before you do B to then do C. Testing that kind of game is very easy.

I thought about arguing several points made in this post, but it really didn't contribute anything to the thread or tenor of discussion, so why bother? Therefore, I only want to correct this single error, rather than argue opinions.

Anywhere along the timeline of PC-based games, from the early 1980s onwards, both linear and nonlinear RPGs were popular. In fact, the most popular series were nonlinear: Wizardry, Ultima, the Magic Candle, and Might and Magic. They fit the classic profile of "do anything, go anywhere." There were other RPGs that were linear, such as the SSI "gold box" series, but these appeared a decade later; and there were still many nonlinear RPGs being released at that time, such as Bethesda Softworks' Elder Scrolls: Arena, and Microprose's ground-breaking Darklands. Even the first chapter-based RPG, Betrayal at Krondor, allowed you to roam freely in each chapter--within a series of boundaries, it's true, but that boundaries were huge, and dictated by the game plot. There were numerous optional subquests, and entire routes you could try or ignore.

Ah, good times, then--and now.

I understand that you like Larian and their games, I do too, but try to keep your eyes open. The fact is that BD has multiple game-breaking bugs in the critical path in 1.32, which is what, the fourth or fifth patch overall? This shows a clear lack of adequate QA. Bugs in sidequests and the like are a fact of life. Gamebreaking bugs in the critical path are a serious problem.


This is not my problem.


Me. I can't play the game I purchased because of one of these bugs you're downplaying. Larian is looking at my savegame, hopefully to fix it, which is great, but it certainly would be better if the game was adequately QA'd before release, wouldn't you agree? That way I could be playing it instead of hanging around the messageboards.

Now those are some great memories!! Heard a rumor that since UbiSoft bought the rights to Might & Magic and Heroes of MM, we may see more of those series (fingers crossed). Betrayal at Krondor was a real blast, but too bad my computer will no longer run some of the old classics.

You computer wont run the Old Classiscs... ??

Do what I do. I have a 486 Sat under my Desk.

With..

Wizardry 6 & 7.
Dark Sun Shattered Land and Wake of the Ravanger.
World Of Xeen.
Dune 2.
Blade of Destiny...

Etc.. All installed on it.

Quality.

John May.

Good work Larian.. Very <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Another way to make all old games work is to just do a dos install before windows, this way you have the dos OS to switch to whenever you need it.

Only thing you would need in this situation is a slow-mo program and a bit of EMS/XMS knowledge, I'm sure they got a place to download autoexec and config files customized for that stuff though.

This is the typical behaviour of a consuming-oriented society.

I wonder if you'd succeed with that statement at your local shamane - but I don't think you'd ever go there.

No, I'm NOT kidding !

P.S. : I still have my 486DX40 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" /> AND you can use DOSBOX; the Emulator. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/winkwink.gif" alt="" />

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/offtopic.gif" alt="" />

Yes it is OUR problem.
The investitors rules a lot of things not only games but also music, cinema, books ...
First of all they want to make money, they don't care about the quality of the products and they don't care about us.

I read this in Gen4 a french magazine, it is a a little part of an interview of Benoît Sokal :

[color:"yellow"]Gen4 : Un développeur m'a dit un jour qu'il était obligé de développer des jeux en 3D, car la société éditrice ne sortirait pas le produit sans coller le logo 3D sur la boîte.

Benoît Sokal : Oui les gens qui ont le pouvoir de décider ne sont pas très intelligents, ils réagissent trop au cours de la bourse.
Vendre 500 000 Sybéria, moi je trouve ça magnifique. Si tout le monde attend un Tintin pour faire de la BD, il n'y a plus de BD. [/color]

Translation :

[color:"yellow"]Gen4 : A game developer told me one day that he was obliged to develop 3D games, because the editor would not release the product without sticking the logo 3D on the box.

Benoît Sokal : Yes people who have the capacity to decide are not very intelligent, they react too much to the money results of the financial places.
To sell 500 000 Sybéria, I find that splendid. If everyone waits for a Tintin to make a comic book, there is no more comic books. [/color]

Barta

FYI, the patch is undergoing final testing now - if all works well it should be up today.

Lar

Barte, he probably meant the developers of Simon the Sorcerer 3 ?

You guys rock.

Excellent...I hope so! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/biggrin.gif" alt="" />

WOOHOOO, then I'll have it before I have my copy of " <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/beyond.gif" alt="" /> + NOVELLA " WHICH I WON WITH THE RAANAAR contest.. !!!!!!!!!!! WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOO

i'm so happy

Any chance of giving us a list of addressed bugs and updated features before the patch is out, Lar?

Dudes, if you guys want to play old games on new computers, then just check out Abandon Loader, it makes all OLD games (well almost all, except for some nasty memory huggers) work ! Especially if you install the VDM sound application !!!

Believe me, this thing rocks if you like playing old games and adventures :

Abandon Loader : http://www.angelfire.com/realm/zeroone/
VDM sound : http://ntvdm.cjb.net/

ScuMM VM (for playing those old Lucasarts games on nowadays pc's <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> ) : http://www.scummvm.org/


Enjoy !!! I loved it !!!
If you have any problems with it you can always ask me, can take some time before I read my mail though, just warning !



I hope the patch'll be there quick <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />