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Few questions regarding story #657364
28/11/19 12:15 PM
28/11/19 12:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2012
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journeyman
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Hello guys and a girl(s). Had been big fan of the series so far : finished Divine Divinity (Divinity: Sword of Lies) at least 5-6 times and game is really genre classic. Also played game Beyond Divinity two times, which was okay but with terrible voice acting. Did complete Divinity : Original Sin, and just now fully finished Divinity : Original Sin 2 Definitive Edition, which is left me with a lot of questions. So I hoping that you guys can help me out with some of them :

1. Where the hell is Zandalor? He's alive in Divinity 2 so he must be around somewhere in this mess. What's his position on this?
2.If Divinity : OS2 is came after BD, so where is Damian and why his Black Ring are allied themselves with the Void?
3. What happened with Damian human army and rannaars in Nemesis? What about archdemon Asmodeus?
4.Is dragon armor set still around and why Lucian didn't have it?
5. Where are all dragon riders from DD? They were main power and agents of Black Ring but not anymore? (Death Knights on f*****g dragons)
6. It's hinted that the orcs are left the Rivellon, but where? Nemesis? Isn't you have to be rift runner to do that?
7. Is Alexander son of Lucian and general Alix?
8. If elves gain knowledge of the dead by eating their parts (brain?), so it's mean that elves can become best mages/warriors if they consume all bodies of fallen enemies or some bad ass characters (story wise)?

Last edited by Soccer; 28/11/19 12:44 PM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657377
29/11/19 01:03 AM
29/11/19 01:03 AM
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1. I haven't found him - he may not make an appearance. Haven't found the cat guy inventor either.
2. Guess: the black ring was defeated by Lucien so it's plausible that Damien was eliminated as a threat. Damien was
not Lucian's son, he was more or less adopted and was conceived in evil so I assume was a part of the void thing.
3. I have no idea.
4. Maybe it was destroyed when Lucian sacrificed himself prior to OS2 starting?
5. Dunno; they were absent from Divinity 2 also, I believe.
6. Seems that the world keeps expanding as new games are put out. If Larien Studios is still working on it, Divinity 3 was supposed to tie all the loose ends.
7. I've been wondering about the "son" part too. I was wondering if Ifan might be the hero from 2 but, then, he'd have to be a dragon knight. I can't remember his name, but I believe the demonologist was a team member in OS1.
8. No clue but I wonder what goes through their head when they eat chicken, fish, etc. smile

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657385
29/11/19 04:50 AM
29/11/19 04:50 AM
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Raze Offline

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Arhu is in Arx.
The Black Ring were always aligned with the void, if you assume the Demon of Lies was the seven gods' spin on their war with the god king.

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Raze] #657392
29/11/19 07:49 AM
29/11/19 07:49 AM
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journeyman
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Originally Posted by caninelegion

6. Seems that the world keeps expanding as new games are put out. If Larien Studios is still working on it, Divinity 3 was supposed to tie all the loose ends.


Somehow I doubt that. Divinity : Original Sin 2 already contradicts some things from Divinity 2, also starting dragon hunt just after source user hunt would be silly, not to mention second fake death of Lucian.
By the way, looks like Damian will be secondary or even main villain in Divinity : Fallen Heroes. So some questions hopefully will be asnwered.

Originally Posted by Raze

Arhu is in Arx.
The Black Ring were always aligned with the void, if you assume the Demon of Lies was the seven gods' spin on their war with the god king.

Whole relationship of Lord of Chaos/God of Demons with the Void/God King really confusing and I don't understand it at all.

Last edited by Soccer; 29/11/19 07:52 AM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657395
29/11/19 10:20 AM
29/11/19 10:20 AM
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Levianne Offline
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Second fake death of Lucian, well here he really fakes it, but if you by the other fake death mean Div2: Ego Draconis, that can't be called fake death, when he was in fact imprisoned in another realm by Damian. That's hardly his own decision to pose as dead. I haven't been through Beyond Divinity yet, as the game doesn't work well on my computer, so can't say if there's something about Lucian's fake death, but since the whole story of that game takes place in another realm (Nemesis), I pretty much doubt it. There's also Divinity: Original Sin out there, but honestly I have absolutely no experience with that, I went straight for it's sequel.
Zandalor isn't explained, but he's some kind of Deus Ex Machina, he shows up, gives you clues and is off (in Divine Divinity and even more in Div2: ED). In D:OS2, you don't really need his help, there's plenty of other similar elements there (one would be Lohse's upstairs visitor, if you play as her, basically functions as Zandalor v. 2.0, I guess the other characters, including custom ones, probably have another gimmick, that works similarly, one of the Seven in the Hall of Echoes perhaps? Can't say for sure, I hardly remember my last progress with a custom character). Storywise, he might be on lookout for Damian's return (as he does indeed return in Div2:ED and there we have Zandalor again) and doesn't pay attention to what's going on in the area of Reaper's Coast. Though it's strange considering how much Sourcery happens there, that it attracts the Void, but not the mage supreme, that is Zandalor.
Arhu can help you with the main quest, although I'm not sure, if it's really needed, if it can be solved without his help, after all, he can even die in this game (but it's canon, that he survives, as he's shown in the ending of Flames of Vengeance in his cat form), you can then talk to his spirit to get the info you need, but he might be even completely missed, if you're not doing the Vault of Lord Kemm quest (I think the quest is optional). Guess there's still a way to go around that to get the amulet and the scroll. Not completely sure though.
General Alix as Alexandar's mother? I had absolutely no idea there was anything going between her and Lucian. Playing DD as a female character, I don't even see the possibility there. XD But well male Lucian is canon, so nevermind that. Makes me wonder, how old is Alexandar actually? He's an adult now, did he meet his "brother" at least once in his life, or was he born after Damian was gone? It's shame that Div2: ED doesn't mention Alexandar at all (does it? I didn't find anything, maybe just missed stuff about him, possibly).
Does Lucian wear Dragon Armor in any cutscene in DD, Is it canon, that he has it? Because as far as I remember, it was optional and not really needed for finishing the game. Sure it helped to wear it, but it wasn't part of the main quest. So that may be the reason.

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657574
07/12/19 09:03 AM
07/12/19 09:03 AM
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journeyman
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Been thinking how to answer that.

2Levianne, still Lucian "dies" second time in a row and no one suspicious about it. Order even started dragon genocide to avenge him, but if Damian couldn't have killed him how come some dragon knight managed to do that? That's the whole point it and it's ridiculous. Also this shows that Divine order just a bunch of fanatics and idiots.
Regarding general Alix : she was, probably, the only one strong female character in the whole game Divine Divinity (outside of some female members of Black Ring. They were some crazy badasses). Alix competently leads the whole army of Ferol and obviously in high position of power, protagonist gets a quest to meet her from Seth just outside of Aleroth. so 99% of the players finished this quest. Also, she is (or was) the blond, just like Alexander and has similar name. Considering fact that, obviously, Alexander isn't half-elf so that single one optinal romance (not counting adventures in brothel) and possible engagement in DD with elf girl Eleanessa isn't canon, left me with only possibility with general Alix as mother of biological son of Lucian.



By the way, question to everyone : isn't doctor Daeva, as a single one transgender character in the game, being literally demonized? (He's consider himself as a male, but have a looks of female).

[Linked Image]


Also, it's reinforces negative stereotypes that only men can become doctors or archdemons.

Last edited by Soccer; 07/12/19 12:03 PM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657575
07/12/19 10:38 AM
07/12/19 10:38 AM
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Doctor Daeva for sure is male, Adramahlihk however ... well (s)he could be anything, it's a demon, those might be genderless, or their own separate gender. Or I don't know. Daeva was a real male doctor, who treated an elven girl possessed by Adramahlihk, after a failed exorcism, the demon possessed the only one living being there - the doctor, that's how Daeva became the demon. It's not just a disguise, that Adramahlihk created for himself. I guess Daeva is a final stage of what would become of Lohse, if it came that far, Adramahlihk in full control of the body, able to transform it into his original demonic form.

EDIT: and about Lucian's (fake) death, well, I haven't figured out, who was his supposed murderer in D:OS2, Dragon Knights already existed here (Slane, the Winter Dragon), so if that event happend already here, then it might not be the second fake death, but a continuation of the first one. Also depends on which ending is canon and what the life of Lucian means to the public, if you spare him, he can still continue to fake his death, if you kill him, the public won't ever know, that he faked his death, as it happened deep beneath the cathedral in Arx, with zero witnesses. In one ending, he apologizes to the Elves, but is this ending canon? But well, I might be wrong here.

Last edited by Levianne; 07/12/19 10:55 AM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Levianne] #657578
07/12/19 11:49 AM
07/12/19 11:49 AM
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Originally Posted by Levianne
Doctor Daeva for sure is male, Adramahlihk however ... well (s)he could be anything, it's a demon, those might be genderless, or their own separate gender. Or I don't know. Daeva was a real male doctor, who treated an elven girl possessed by Adramahlihk, after a failed exorcism, the demon possessed the only one living being there - the doctor, that's how Daeva became the demon. It's not just a disguise, that Adramahlihk created for himself. I guess Daeva is a final stage of what would become of Lohse, if it came that far, Adramahlihk in full control of the body, able to transform it into his original demonic form.


Isn't that is transgender argument: if female/male/genderless mind in the wrong body she/he/it is trangender person? So if Adramahlihk is female and she in the body of male doctor Daeva, she's trans. The same goes if original gender of demon Adramahlihk is genderless,because body is still clearly males. Which mean that every body possessions where gender of demon/spirit is different from the body which they possess means that they all are transgender people/demons/spirits.

Last edited by Soccer; 07/12/19 11:52 AM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657586
07/12/19 03:48 PM
07/12/19 03:48 PM
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Levianne Offline
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Wouldn't a genderless demon actually assume the gender of it's host? Because if it doesn't think of itself as having a gender, how can it be in a wrong body? Female mind in a male body, or the other way, sure, but genderless? Anyway for me, it's just a demon, don't really care if a she, or a he, it will die anyway. Amadia shortly possessing Fane while confronting Aetera, that's the real deal, she was talking through him with Fane's voice, not her own (the one heard in her shrine in the Seeker's refuge), but if you play Lohse and allow Adramahlihk to speak later in the same conversation, the demon will talk with a male voice, not Lohse's (I guess it's Daeva's voice anyway), which I personally find even weirder, than Adramahlihk's seemingly female body.

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Levianne] #657589
07/12/19 05:31 PM
07/12/19 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Levianne
Wouldn't a genderless demon actually assume the gender of it's host? Because if it doesn't think of itself as having a gender, how can it be in a wrong body? Female mind in a male body, or the other way, sure, but genderless? Anyway for me, it's just a demon, don't really care if a she, or a he, it will die anyway. Amadia shortly possessing Fane while confronting Aetera, that's the real deal, she was talking through him with Fane's voice, not her own (the one heard in her shrine in the Seeker's refuge), but if you play Lohse and allow Adramahlihk to speak later in the same conversation, the demon will talk with a male voice, not Lohse's (I guess it's Daeva's voice anyway), which I personally find even weirder, than Adramahlihk's seemingly female body.

Well, first at all, demons are having genders as there was at least two half demons in the series : Iona (half-demon/half-human) from DD and here is Malady (half-demon/half-elf) from D:OS2, so we can assume that demons have at least are reproducing between themself. Secondly, for us casual gamers in Divinity series very important to know what Adramahlihk gender is, because if them is transgender person, then killing them would be considered as transphobic for these who role-playing in this RPG SJW main character. Well, this was a joke which went far enough. I really tried to be overly sarcastic in the last posts.

Still, I would like to know what the deal with Adramahlihk. Was it mistake from developers or they decided change his/her gender in last minute?

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657590
07/12/19 05:46 PM
07/12/19 05:46 PM
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I think it's a bit of a stretch to see killing Adramahlihk as being transphobic in any way at all. It doesn't really matter what gender the demon does or doesn't have, the body isn't Adramahlihk any more than I am the gender of the Mean Black Car when I'm driving it (for the record, Mean Black Car is a Ford Mondeo. I don't know its pronouns because I don't speak grr). The (presumably formerly good) doctor is simply a vessel, nothing more.


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657591
07/12/19 07:06 PM
07/12/19 07:06 PM
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Levianne Offline
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I'm going to kill Adramahlihk because he's trying to take control of ma girl Lohse, rather than being transphobic, or whatever. Also the idea of genderless demons being still able to reproduce with whatever creature they deem worthy seems to be a complete stranger to you, I see. The demons could be generally genderless most the time, when not reproducing (unless they really love to reproduce with someone every minute, well those are probably weirdos even in a demon realm), but when deciding to spawn some offspring, they could temporarily change into the opposite for the person of their interest. Like yes, there is no evidence of such thing in the world of Divinity, but that doesn't mean, that it couldn't be possible. There's also no evidence against it. Just because Malady is a half demon, doesn't mean, her daddy, or mommy couldn't be a genderless demon, temporarily changed to whatever fits the other half of her parent. Because honestly we don't really know a thing about her, she has more secrets, than the US government. We're talking about demons in a world, where Polymorph exists, you know. If a low level Sourcerer can shapeshift parts of their body, why not a powerful demon/archdemon such as Adramahlihk?

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657592
07/12/19 07:25 PM
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Demons in the Divinity universe exists outside of the boundaries of planes that most if not all of the other species are bound to, so it's not a stretch to consider they may not at all be bound to a single gender, or any gender. It's all just vessels made of bone and flesh.

Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: The Composer] #657595
07/12/19 08:15 PM
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Originally Posted by vometia
I think it's a bit of a stretch to see killing Adramahlihk as being transphobic in any way at all. It doesn't really matter what gender the demon does or doesn't have, the body isn't Adramahlihk any more than I am the gender of the Mean Black Car when I'm driving it (for the record, Mean Black Car is a Ford Mondeo. I don't know its pronouns because I don't speak grr). The (presumably formerly good) doctor is simply a vessel, nothing more.

I get the fact that Daeva was used by Adramahlihk a suit in order to work with some humans, just like Janus was for demon of lies, but why the model for demon is feminized? It's one confusing...


Originally Posted by Levianne
I'm going to kill Adramahlihk because he's trying to take control of ma girl Lohse, rather than being transphobic, or whatever. Also the idea of genderless demons being still able to reproduce with whatever creature they deem worthy seems to be a complete stranger to you, I see. The demons could be generally genderless most the time, when not reproducing (unless they really love to reproduce with someone every minute, well those are probably weirdos even in a demon realm), but when deciding to spawn some offspring, they could temporarily change into the opposite for the person of their interest. Like yes, there is no evidence of such thing in the world of Divinity, but that doesn't mean, that it couldn't be possible. There's also no evidence against it. Just because Malady is a half demon, doesn't mean, her daddy, or mommy couldn't be a genderless demon, temporarily changed to whatever fits the other half of her parent. Because honestly we don't really know a thing about her, she has more secrets, than the US government. We're talking about demons in a world, where Polymorph exists, you know. If a low level Sourcerer can shapeshift parts of their body, why not a powerful demon/archdemon such as Adramahlihk?

My whole transphobic argument was entirely a joke. Regarding the demons : all named demons in other games (Succubus, Demon of Lies, Corvus, Samael, Asmodeus, Izikiel(or something) had specific gender and not "fluid" form, so I'm not sure about genderless.They were created by Lord of Chaos (their God patron) and considered as a race so there must be some form of similarity with other races from Rivellon (or Namessis).


Originally Posted by The Composer
Demons in the Divinity universe exists outside of the boundaries of planes that most if not all of the other species are bound to, so it's not a stretch to consider they may not at all be bound to a single gender, or any gender. It's all just vessels made of bone and flesh.

In Divinity universe demons don't need vessels and requires only to be summon. There was only two times when demons used meat suits : in case with already mentioned Adramahlihk and with Demon of Lies. Last one was created from part of the soul of Lord of Chaos in a form of the sword with purpose to corrupt it's bearer, break his will and tranform him/her in Demon of Lies, who, in turn, will summon the real Lord of Chaos.

Last edited by Soccer; 07/12/19 08:37 PM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657685
12/12/19 11:26 AM
12/12/19 11:26 AM
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Levianne Offline
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Just because demons "are considered a race" doesn't mean they need to be exactly like other races with the gender duality. Are other races on the same power level as demons?
Also which race has multiple personalities? There's the possessed girl from the Bloodmoon Island, she has a follow up quest in Arx, she's silent at first, but in the harbor area, she speaks, or rather her demon speaks through her. And you know the demon speaks as WE (she is ours), not I or ME, so clearly a male or female gender, right? When the demon comes out, again you can't clearly say if it's a HE or a SHE, because it looks non human (a giant dog like thing), still it's a demon with "unspecified" gender. How does that fit into your, "all demons as a race have to fit with other races" scenario?

EDIT (because I sooooo love editing my posts): even if Adramahlihk is female in a male body of doctor Daeva, what does it matter in a game where two males or two females can date each other, or even date a Lizard for god's sake. XD

Last edited by Levianne; 12/12/19 11:44 AM.
Re: Few questions regarding story [Re: Soccer] #657693
13/12/19 03:18 AM
13/12/19 03:18 AM
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