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Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662534
07/03/20 07:17 PM
07/03/20 07:17 PM
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TheInfinitySock Offline
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Funny thing is that a lot of people are complaining about how BG3 looking like DOS2 but this does not bother me why it does not bother is that it means there can forces on the story more than making a new engine for BG3 do you lot have any idea how long it takes to make a new engine and story Dragon Age Origins take six years to come out why make a new engine when you already have a good engine to bring with?


Cthulhu: FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS I LAY DORMANT, WHO HAS DISTURBED MY- Oh its you...
Warlock: Greetings my lord-
Cthulhu: LET ME SLEEP-
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662537
07/03/20 07:36 PM
07/03/20 07:36 PM
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engine is just "the core" of the game... At least they said they only took 20 to 30% of the DoS2 engine... so....

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/03/20 07:37 PM.
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Maximuuus] #662538
07/03/20 07:40 PM
07/03/20 07:40 PM
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Between Madness & Insanity
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
engine is just a part of the game... At least they said they only took 20 to 30% of the DoS2 engine... so....

Yes and no. the Unity 'engine' and Unreal Engine have made everything from FPS's to RPGs.

The engine has nothing to do with the assets, story, voice acting, or such. It's just a framework for what can be done to make a game.
So people should not get so angry over 'the DoS Engine' because it has nothing to do with DoS except having been made FOR DoS, and thus the name.

The Unreal Engine was first made for Unreal, then Unreal Tournament, and now has games like Ace Combat and Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island. Which is as far from Unreal as you can get.

So the name of the engine means little other than the games potential, in a VERY loose sense.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Eguzky] #662539
07/03/20 07:43 PM
07/03/20 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
engine is just a part of the game... At least they said they only took 20 to 30% of the DoS2 engine... so....

Yes and no. the Unity 'engine' and Unreal Engine have made everything from FPS's to RPGs.

The engine has nothing to do with the assets, story, voice acting, or such. It's just a framework for what can be done to make a game.
So people should not get so angry over 'the DoS Engine' because it has nothing to do with DoS except having been made FOR DoS, and thus the name.

The Unreal Engine was first made for Unreal, then Unreal Tournament, and now has games like Ace Combat and Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island. Which is as far from Unreal as you can get.

So the name of the engine means little other than the games potential, in a VERY loose sense.


Wow, first time I agree with you.
This was the meanings of my message : engine is not enough to define what a game is.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Maximuuus] #662540
07/03/20 07:46 PM
07/03/20 07:46 PM
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Eguzky Offline
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Originally Posted by Maximuuus
Originally Posted by Eguzky
Originally Posted by Maximuuus
engine is just a part of the game... At least they said they only took 20 to 30% of the DoS2 engine... so....

Yes and no. the Unity 'engine' and Unreal Engine have made everything from FPS's to RPGs.

The engine has nothing to do with the assets, story, voice acting, or such. It's just a framework for what can be done to make a game.
So people should not get so angry over 'the DoS Engine' because it has nothing to do with DoS except having been made FOR DoS, and thus the name.

The Unreal Engine was first made for Unreal, then Unreal Tournament, and now has games like Ace Combat and Adventure Pinball: Forgotten Island. Which is as far from Unreal as you can get.

So the name of the engine means little other than the games potential, in a VERY loose sense.


Wow, first time I agree with you.
This was the meanings of my message : engine is not enough to define what a game is.


Agreed, and I misunderstood the gist of your post. Apologies.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Wiborg Sturmfels] #662544
07/03/20 08:00 PM
07/03/20 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Wiborg Sturmfels
[...] Of course there is a lot of hype in two different camps:

1. D:OS fans who are simply looking forward to a new Larian game

2. Baldur´s Gate veterans who expect a real Baldur´s Gate game. I would even split the BG camp again into the hardcore fans (who hope for a game in the style of the original game) and the moderate fans, who also accept changes / innovations.

In each of the two BG veteran camps, everyone has their own ideas about a Baldur's Gate game. [...]

If you need to do this, than there is in
camp 2 in addition this 'BG isn't just about DnD-movement, this is based too much on the DnD rule'-movement

and you completely left out
camp 3. 'This isn't close enough to the current 5e rules' - camp, so the DnD-purists.

and then, and then....
What a conflict of goals, alone 2 & 3? Is it?
Seen from that perspective, let's just hope that Larian sticks true to their vision, since everybody's darling is everybody's bit*h.
And really no one would like that.

Anyway, I am pretty sure, that nobody ever intended BG or DnD or cRPGs to be something that splits people into camps fight each other personally.

In my handbook of the original saga, right on page 3, within the introduction by David Cook, he says about the game (translated from german):

Quote
That you play it, and have fun with it, that's the point of it.
And I wish you this fun.

I can't find a remark that means to become nasty from playing.
There's an adventure waiting.
This should bring us together.
Camps need a bonfire.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kungfukappa] #662545
07/03/20 08:04 PM
07/03/20 08:04 PM
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Boeroer Offline
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Originally Posted by kungfukappa
Right, more evidence that this game is actually being made for people who never liked BG to begin with.


It's just evidence that your broken record shtick beguiles me into teasing you.

I loved BG I & II and presumably did put more hours into RTwP games than any other forum user here (unless there's QA folks for RTwP games here - I know they put humongous amounts of hours into their games). But still: I don't play the fanatic RTwP zealot because TB games can be great, too. D:OS I & II I didn't like that much unfortunately.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: KillerRabbit] #662547
07/03/20 08:10 PM
07/03/20 08:10 PM
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Originally Posted by KillerRabbit
BG3 needs to have high replay value, multiple ways to complete tasks . . . so many things other than combat

I just felt like throwing this in, when I read your sentence:

[Linked Image]
It's from page 40 in the Original Manual smile

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Wiborg Sturmfels] #662571
07/03/20 09:14 PM
07/03/20 09:14 PM
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kyrthorsen Offline OP
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Hey, really appreciate your post.

To cut it short, innovation in games YES - always, but copy/pasting 90% DOS2 mechanics while totally ignoring BG vibe, look, gameplay, and calling the game BG3 - HELL NO!

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: TheInfinitySock] #662572
07/03/20 09:18 PM
07/03/20 09:18 PM
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kyrthorsen Offline OP
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This is really not about the engine. But to make the game practically IDENTICAL to DOS2??

I mean - if you didnt know that BG3 was coming out and you saw the gameplay demo - would you guest it was a BG game or a DOS game. Enough said.

I have nothing against Larian using their engine - but if they are doing that then obviously they should AT LEAST make the game look and feel different than DOS.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662573
07/03/20 09:29 PM
07/03/20 09:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
This is really not about the engine. But to make the game practically IDENTICAL to DOS2??

I mean - if you didnt know that BG3 was coming out and you saw the gameplay demo - would you guest it was a BG game or a DOS game. Enough said.

I have nothing against Larian using their engine - but if they are doing that then obviously they should AT LEAST make the game look and feel different than DOS.


This.

Incoming people to say you're wrong because it obviously look and feel totally different than DoS smile

Last edited by Maximuuus; 07/03/20 09:37 PM.
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662630
08/03/20 08:18 AM
08/03/20 08:18 AM
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Raze Offline

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Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
This is really not about the engine. But to make the game practically IDENTICAL to DOS2??

It was not made to look like D:OS 2, and there are significant differences. During development, games don't start off looking like the final state. The first presentations of D:OS 2 looked like D:OS 1 in a lot of respects, as well. As the core components / systems get finished, and assets are created, they get added to the game.
The save system wasn't added yet in the build used in the presentation, so why do you assume the lighting and camera systems, character models, et al, are finished?

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Raze] #662634
08/03/20 08:35 AM
08/03/20 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by Raze
Originally Posted by kyrthorsen
This is really not about the engine. But to make the game practically IDENTICAL to DOS2??

It was not made to look like D:OS 2, and there are significant differences. During development, games don't start off looking like the final state. The first presentations of D:OS 2 looked like D:OS 1 in a lot of respects, as well. As the core components / systems get finished, and assets are created, they get added to the game.
The save system wasn't added yet in the build used in the presentation, so why do you assume the lighting and camera systems, character models, et al, are finished?


Ok so please, can you then inform us on "how it was made to look like BG" according to the first view we had with the game ?
(assuming "visual" things are not done yet and we don't know much about story).

And please don't answer with what's only from D&D. Of course D&D is (an important) part of a BG game but every games using D&D aren't BG.
(This game is named Baldur's Gate 3, not NWN3, Tales of the Sword Coast 2,..... and not D&D video game).



Last edited by Maximuuus; 08/03/20 09:02 AM.
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662638
08/03/20 09:15 AM
08/03/20 09:15 AM
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Raze Offline

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What does looking like BG mean? There have been several topics related to this, and I don't know. A small minority of people mean an isometric camera with 2D graphics. The area around the riverbank in BG3 was too bright and colourful to be BG, despite bright and colourful areas in the first 2 games, and dark areas in the presentation.
I'm not the person to ask about the graphics design for BG3, though, not being involved in the design or development.

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Raze] #662644
08/03/20 10:19 AM
08/03/20 10:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Raze

What does looking like BG mean? There have been several topics related to this, and I don't know. A small minority of people mean an isometric camera with 2D graphics. The area around the riverbank in BG3 was too bright and colourful to be BG, despite bright and colourful areas in the first 2 games, and dark areas in the presentation.
I'm not the person to ask about the graphics design for BG3, though, not being involved in the design or development.


I really find interresting Larian Studio ask "what does looking like BG means" according you decided to create a game named Baldur's Gate 3... Can't you explain why you choose this name and convince players that find this name important ?
Is it me that has to explain why this new game had this name ?

I can also answer questions with questions...
(EDIT : that's why I didnt answer here, but Darkatarn do it quiete well under)

What you showed looks nothing like a BG game and Swen nearly didn't mention anything about it.

You can answer without talking about anything "visual" (such as isometric camera with 2D graphics).
I agree with you, it's too early to talk about that.

Last edited by Maximuuus; 08/03/20 01:22 PM.
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Raze] #662646
08/03/20 10:36 AM
08/03/20 10:36 AM
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DaKatarn Offline
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Originally Posted by Raze

What does looking like BG mean? There have been several topics related to this, and I don't know. A small minority of people mean an isometric camera with 2D graphics. The area around the riverbank in BG3 was too bright and colourful to be BG, despite bright and colourful areas in the first 2 games, and dark areas in the presentation.
I'm not the person to ask about the graphics design for BG3, though, not being involved in the design or development.


TY for your presence, it is always interesting to feel listened to and to be able to participate in a real feedback.

I think the main plot is doing a Baldur's Gate game and not just a DD5 game ( Baldur's Gate identity before Dungeons and Dragons identity). It's an important nuance.

I propose a small list to answer your question:

- Incantations for spell!!!!!! Not just click and KABOOM FIRE EFFECT!

- A little less colorful ambiance, BG universe is more realistic and less shiny and high fantasy than Divinity.

- Of course the UI is too close of Divinity. We want an UI with wood and stone, a little more gloomy and traditional.

- "Ahh, the Child of Bhaal has awoken."

A VERY VERY BADASS MAIN VILAIN! Sarevok and Irenicus was deep and very iconic, like Hitchcock said "A good story is a story with a good vilain". I hope Illithid Master isn't the real final boss. I have big hope with Cult of the Dead Three (a very good connexion with the Bhaal Legacy and the new context of DD5).

- BG Music' style or remix! Even today the first notes of the main theme of BG1 or BG2 still very iconic.

- One map for one location to visit with a big world map and the possibility of returning from former areas. The system of ONE BIG Map for one Act in Divinity isn't BG friendly and it's an immersion breaker.

- Custom portrait and real character sheet.

- A LOT of charismatic NPC Companions and not just 5 or 6 Origin Divinity' style NPC.... And please true ROMANCES and a lot of PARTY BANTERS.

- A very good and long adventure with local issues and not just ultra epic and cosmic issue, it's an other immersion breacker imo. Less epic for epicness and more coherent and realistic background. Less High Fantasy and more MEDIEVAL fantasy with historic soul and deep conflicts.

In summary, a good glass of old-fashioned wiskhy in front of a crackling fireplace, an old library and a hunting trophy. Not a smooth and clean atmosphere like the design of the latest iphone.

- Of course, a lot of easter eggs with the BG series (Viconia, Sarevok, events, locations, ...).

- Less WTF moments and jokes than Divinity, BG universe is serious and deep with subtle touches of humor like Jan Jansen and Minsc quotes.

An attack of shoes is fun but it's also useless and not the spirit of the licence.

- A true group of 6 adventurers ( During the demo I have seen only 4 slots of characters...). ( we can make a concession with this point I think...)


Last edited by DaKatarn; 08/03/20 10:36 AM.
Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: DaKatarn] #662656
08/03/20 12:29 PM
08/03/20 12:29 PM
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Riandor Offline
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Originally Posted by DaKatarn
Originally Posted by Raze

What does looking like BG mean? There have been several topics related to this, and I don't know. A small minority of people mean an isometric camera with 2D graphics. The area around the riverbank in BG3 was too bright and colourful to be BG, despite bright and colourful areas in the first 2 games, and dark areas in the presentation.
I'm not the person to ask about the graphics design for BG3, though, not being involved in the design or development.


TY for your presence, it is always interesting to feel listened to and to be able to participate in a real feedback.

I think the main plot is doing a Baldur's Gate game and not just a DD5 game ( Baldur's Gate identity before Dungeons and Dragons identity). It's an important nuance.

I propose a small list to answer your question:

- Incantations for spell!!!!!! Not just click and KABOOM FIRE EFFECT!

- A little less colorful ambiance, BG universe is more realistic and less shiny and high fantasy than Divinity.

- Of course the UI is too close of Divinity. We want an UI with wood and stone, a little more gloomy and traditional.

- "Ahh, the Child of Bhaal has awoken."

A VERY VERY BADASS MAIN VILAIN! Sarevok and Irenicus was deep and very iconic, like Hitchcock said "A good story is a story with a good vilain". I hope Illithid Master isn't the real final boss. I have big hope with Cult of the Dead Three (a very good connexion with the Bhaal Legacy and the new context of DD5).

- BG Music' style or remix! Even today the first notes of the main theme of BG1 or BG2 still very iconic.

- One map for one location to visit with a big world map and the possibility of returning from former areas. The system of ONE BIG Map for one Act in Divinity isn't BG friendly and it's an immersion breaker.

- Custom portrait and real character sheet.

- A LOT of charismatic NPC Companions and not just 5 or 6 Origin Divinity' style NPC.... And please true ROMANCES and a lot of PARTY BANTERS.

- A very good and long adventure with local issues and not just ultra epic and cosmic issue, it's an other immersion breacker imo. Less epic for epicness and more coherent and realistic background. Less High Fantasy and more MEDIEVAL fantasy with historic soul and deep conflicts.

In summary, a good glass of old-fashioned wiskhy in front of a crackling fireplace, an old library and a hunting trophy. Not a smooth and clean atmosphere like the design of the latest iphone.

- Of course, a lot of easter eggs with the BG series (Viconia, Sarevok, events, locations, ...).

- Less WTF moments and jokes than Divinity, BG universe is serious and deep with subtle touches of humor like Jan Jansen and Minsc quotes.

An attack of shoes is fun but it's also useless and not the spirit of the licence.

- A true group of 6 adventurers ( During the demo I have seen only 4 slots of characters...). ( we can make a concession with this point I think...)


Whilst you’re list includes good points, I have to ask whether you realised that what you saw was a demo right? That means copied assets, missing animations, incomplete voices and effects and lighting and and and.

The showcase was to highlight the TB system and the kind of things you can do with it within the 5e rules. What we are yet to see other than the cinematic sand some early plot devices is, well, the entire game! We are no where near release.

People should be cautious about getting too precious about this until much later on. Not that I disapprove of poking and asking difficult questions!

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: Riandor] #662669
08/03/20 01:13 PM
08/03/20 01:13 PM
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DaKatarn Offline
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Originally Posted by Riandor
Originally Posted by DaKatarn
Originally Posted by Raze

What does looking like BG mean? There have been several topics related to this, and I don't know. A small minority of people mean an isometric camera with 2D graphics. The area around the riverbank in BG3 was too bright and colourful to be BG, despite bright and colourful areas in the first 2 games, and dark areas in the presentation.
I'm not the person to ask about the graphics design for BG3, though, not being involved in the design or development.


TY for your presence, it is always interesting to feel listened to and to be able to participate in a real feedback.

I think the main plot is doing a Baldur's Gate game and not just a DD5 game ( Baldur's Gate identity before Dungeons and Dragons identity). It's an important nuance.

I propose a small list to answer your question:

- Incantations for spell!!!!!! Not just click and KABOOM FIRE EFFECT!

- A little less colorful ambiance, BG universe is more realistic and less shiny and high fantasy than Divinity.

- Of course the UI is too close of Divinity. We want an UI with wood and stone, a little more gloomy and traditional.

- "Ahh, the Child of Bhaal has awoken."

A VERY VERY BADASS MAIN VILAIN! Sarevok and Irenicus was deep and very iconic, like Hitchcock said "A good story is a story with a good vilain". I hope Illithid Master isn't the real final boss. I have big hope with Cult of the Dead Three (a very good connexion with the Bhaal Legacy and the new context of DD5).

- BG Music' style or remix! Even today the first notes of the main theme of BG1 or BG2 still very iconic.

- One map for one location to visit with a big world map and the possibility of returning from former areas. The system of ONE BIG Map for one Act in Divinity isn't BG friendly and it's an immersion breaker.

- Custom portrait and real character sheet.

- A LOT of charismatic NPC Companions and not just 5 or 6 Origin Divinity' style NPC.... And please true ROMANCES and a lot of PARTY BANTERS.

- A very good and long adventure with local issues and not just ultra epic and cosmic issue, it's an other immersion breacker imo. Less epic for epicness and more coherent and realistic background. Less High Fantasy and more MEDIEVAL fantasy with historic soul and deep conflicts.

In summary, a good glass of old-fashioned wiskhy in front of a crackling fireplace, an old library and a hunting trophy. Not a smooth and clean atmosphere like the design of the latest iphone.

- Of course, a lot of easter eggs with the BG series (Viconia, Sarevok, events, locations, ...).

- Less WTF moments and jokes than Divinity, BG universe is serious and deep with subtle touches of humor like Jan Jansen and Minsc quotes.

An attack of shoes is fun but it's also useless and not the spirit of the licence.

- A true group of 6 adventurers ( During the demo I have seen only 4 slots of characters...). ( we can make a concession with this point I think...)


Whilst you’re list includes good points, I have to ask whether you realised that what you saw was a demo right? That means copied assets, missing animations, incomplete voices and effects and lighting and and and.

The showcase was to highlight the TB system and the kind of things you can do with it within the 5e rules. What we are yet to see other than the cinematic sand some early plot devices is, well, the entire game! We are no where near release.

People should be cautious about getting too precious about this until much later on. Not that I disapprove of poking and asking difficult questions!


I'm agree with you but it's the goal of a preview to have a feedback and this is my feedback: "Prevention is better than cure".

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662674
08/03/20 01:44 PM
08/03/20 01:44 PM
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Riandor Offline
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Yeah that’s fair...
In fact a lot of the criticism is fair, it’s just not always very constructively put :hihi: (aimed at the forum in general, not You)

Re: This is not BG3 but DOS3 [Re: kyrthorsen] #662735
08/03/20 04:38 PM
08/03/20 04:38 PM
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Emrikol Offline
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Is this game being made first and foremost for those who hold BG1 & 2 as the apex of computer RPGs? If not, there is no reason to be so beholden to the original (in whatever way the aforementioned group thinks that should or even can be achieved).

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