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Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #664469
19/03/20 01:01 AM
19/03/20 01:01 AM
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TheInfinitySock Offline
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Sorry pal but BG3 will not be a open world there are going on the lines of the past BG games when you go from one place to another on a world map


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Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #664505
19/03/20 03:43 PM
19/03/20 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxon1974
Dang just as I feared the game will be just like the DOS games with areas locked into separate ACTS. Disappointed.

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-date-3-multiple-huge-regions-custom-characters/


Yea, it really is a considerably less exciting system. I love the open world of BG1, but BG2 was still a good compromise. There’s something really immersive about knowing that you can go wherever you want and do whatever you want. That the scary dragon is there waiting for you, all the time, always at fixed strength. Because why shouldn’t he be? He lives in that world just as much as you do. The sense of urgency was beautifully handled in the beginning of BG2 as well, because every quest that you do, no matter how random, helps you gather that gold you need to progress the main story.

The act system of DOS is just less interesting in every single way. You can still have chapters, like BG2, and have some areas locked behind those, but the freedom of travel is necessary for creating the impression of a living, breathing world.

But as other people said; no surprises here.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #664507
19/03/20 03:57 PM
19/03/20 03:57 PM
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NO surprises, only disapointement again cry

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #664513
19/03/20 11:08 PM
19/03/20 11:08 PM
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Well, splitting into large maps is not itself a bad thing, as long as you can freely move back to previous maps regardless of where you are in the story. My preference is that maps should have content of mixed difficulty to avoid a linear feel, although I know that does not always work.

I thought that the Witcher 3 managed it quite well having several large maps with some general difficulty progression going between them as the story progressed, and giving fairly clear guidance through the journal when a given story/quest path was likely to be an inappropriate level. There are probably many other ways to indicate encounter CR if putting it directly in the journal is considered a bit blunt.

Not that getting into overly difficult situations should be as common if the level range is only up to 10.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665410
31/03/20 06:34 PM
31/03/20 06:34 PM
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I had opened a topic about the map system and the liberty between zones and my fear about a "Divinity" Style...

And of course it's an another proof of the bad impact of a copy/paste Divinity on Baldur'spirit with Origin Companion, a little number of NPC and a list too long for my soul.

The recent interviews confirms a Divinity System with one Act= one map without the liberty of back. It's an another disappointment for this "Divinity 3".

Last edited by DaKatarn; 31/03/20 06:36 PM.
Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665414
31/03/20 08:58 PM
31/03/20 08:58 PM
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The game being set in different acts with no way for the player to track back, yeah that doesn't sound very exciting to me. And yeah I think the overall structures of BG 1 AND BG 2 are more interesting (and compared to modern RPG trends, refreshing) than what we saw in DOS 1 and DOS 2. But I dunno if I feel it's such a big deal, compared to the quality (or lack thereof) of the content inside these acts. A game can still be great with a really predictable, unflexible structure.

What's that about little number of NPCs?

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665415
31/03/20 09:09 PM
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I'm torn on this. I can appreciate what Divinity did with the seemless maps but everything felt kind mushed together. I always find it immersion breaking in games like this that the ancient lich lair is a short hike from town. I like feeling that I have gone far off the beaten path to find something in the wilderness.

Acts don't bother me as much. BG2 had acts but they didn't lock you out of the areas you had been to previously. I want to be able to return to a place I have been to see what impact my choices have had or to address a new situation that pops up.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Tyr2000] #665417
31/03/20 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Tyr2000
I'm torn on this. I can appreciate what Divinity did with the seemless maps but everything felt kind mushed together. I always find it immersion breaking in games like this that the ancient lich lair is a short hike from town. I like feeling that I have gone far off the beaten path to find something in the wilderness.

Acts don't bother me as much. BG2 had acts but they didn't lock you out of the areas you had been to previously. I want to be able to return to a place I have been to see what impact my choices have had or to address a new situation that pops up.


BG2 locked you out depending on what chapter (act) you were on. Only chapters 2,3 and 6 are on "shared" maps. Chapter 1 is the starter dungeon, chapter 4 is fixed to the pirate town and Spellhold, chapter 5 is set in the Underdark and chapter 7 start in Suldanessellar to finish in Hell.

Swen's comment says nothing about locking access to the previous act regions either. It could work like BG2 for all we know.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665420
31/03/20 11:50 PM
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Personally fairly large acts that allow free roaming.. and getting yourself in serious trouble ... can be a lot of fun.
I don't think you will be able to go back to most "act1" locations after act 1 etc, but thats a guess.
With 100+ hrs of fun should be plenty of opportunity for diverse and unique areas.. wilderness.. underdark.. cities.

Someone mentioned "timed" quests... although i would prefer they to be in the minority.. some time quests make sense, e.g. you must get tadpole removed in 7 days or x happens.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: LostSoul] #665425
01/04/20 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by LostSoul
Personally fairly large acts that allow free roaming.. and getting yourself in serious trouble ... can be a lot of fun.
I don't think you will be able to go back to most "act1" locations after act 1 etc, but thats a guess.
With 100+ hrs of fun should be plenty of opportunity for diverse and unique areas.. wilderness.. underdark.. cities.

Someone mentioned "timed" quests... although i would prefer they to be in the minority.. some time quests make sense, e.g. you must get tadpole removed in 7 days or x happens.


I think that is a fake out timed quest, the tadpole isn't supposed to come out at all, but the character doesn't know it's a mutant tadpole so they only think they have 7 days.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665429
01/04/20 02:33 AM
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Naturally there is a lot of speculation, and I too have my opinion. I'm sure that some people will embrace the tadpole and what might happen so there is no reason to expect that if characters do not have their tadpole removed, there will be a consequence. What that consequence would be is completely unknown but I think that a character should turn into a squid face.

Naturally I believe that decisions in each Act will directly affect what will happen in subsequent Acts. There will probably be game saves, but what type is unknown. I think that Larian wants MAX game repeatability with different characters.

I think there will be modding available at some future point in time.


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Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665431
01/04/20 03:05 AM
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I think they said you "could" save scum but that "failure" just leads to different game play options.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665682
04/04/20 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Saxon1974
Dang just as I feared the game will be just like the DOS games with areas locked into separate ACTS. Disappointed.

https://wccftech.com/baldurs-date-3-multiple-huge-regions-custom-characters/


This is probably my biggest greif with the game (coupled with the game being too highly styleized but thats another thread). There should be ways to traverse the whole world *unless* there is something in the world that blocks you. In Baldurs Gate you cannot enter the city because of the iron crisis, it has to be solved within the game before you can continue. It makes sense in the world. You cannot enter the Bandit Camp before you have a map to it, makes sense too because its obviously hidden. You cannot enter the Cloakwood though, doesnt really make much sense other than that its too close to the starting area and it would make people wander into their deaths. But dont know, north of the Friendly Arms Inn is lands infested in Ankhegs that one-shot any level 1-2 character that goes there. In the SCS mod (I think it is) the Cloakwood is open from the start except for the mines and I guess you could make the arguement that the mines are a covert operation and thus hard to find (similar to the bandit camp) but yea.

But you had Durlags Tower just east of Nashkel and you "shouldnt" go there until you're basically done with the game. Curious, but why is that? Well, it does create a sense that the world is there regardless of you. It doesnt care if you go there or not, the world just *is*. This for me is a marker of excellent game creation. The only thing that aught to stop you from going somewhere is the difficulty of the content (or as mentioned, it makes sense in the world). You want to retrieve the farmers sons body in the Ankheg cave at level 2? Go ahead and try, most likely you will reload several times and make a note that you will return once you're higher level.

Invisible barriers and linear progression kills immersion faster than anything else.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Torque] #665690
04/04/20 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Torque
[quote=Saxon1974]
This is probably my biggest greif with the game (coupled with the game being too highly styleized but thats another thread). There should be ways to traverse the whole world *unless* there is something in the world that blocks you. In Baldurs Gate you cannot enter the city because of the iron crisis, it has to be solved within the game before you can continue. It makes sense in the world.


No it doesn't. A city needs a constant stream of supplies going in or else it collapses. Hence, people have to be entering, or there's cargo to hide in, or sewers to sneak through, something.

There is a way into the city, you are just not allowed to enter for plot reasons.

We don't know much about the plot. Complaining about not being able to go everywhere when you don't even know the plot reasons is stupid.

Quote
Invisible barriers and linear progression kills immersion faster than anything else.


Videogames have finite content, because every bit has to be put in by the developers. Every open world videogame has either invisible barriers, or impassible waist-high fences, or barriers blocking everything, or vast expanses of nothing, or edges of the maps, because there has to be a limit to exploration.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Stabbey] #665692
04/04/20 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Stabbey
Originally Posted by Torque
[quote=Saxon1974]
This is probably my biggest greif with the game (coupled with the game being too highly styleized but thats another thread). There should be ways to traverse the whole world *unless* there is something in the world that blocks you. In Baldurs Gate you cannot enter the city because of the iron crisis, it has to be solved within the game before you can continue. It makes sense in the world.


No it doesn't. A city needs a constant stream of supplies going in or else it collapses. Hence, people have to be entering, or there's cargo to hide in, or sewers to sneak through, something.

There is a way into the city, you are just not allowed to enter for plot reasons.

We don't know much about the plot. Complaining about not being able to go everywhere when you don't even know the plot reasons is stupid.

Quote
Invisible barriers and linear progression kills immersion faster than anything else.


Videogames have finite content, because every bit has to be put in by the developers. Every open world videogame has either invisible barriers, or impassible waist-high fences, or barriers blocking everything, or vast expanses of nothing, or edges of the maps, because there has to be a limit to exploration.


I dont think you understand what immersion means, or perhaps you never experience it while watching a movie or reading a book. Or playing a game for that matter.

If your point here is "a game can never be as real as reality" well, I guess you got me, dont have a counter-arguement to that. You are 100% right.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Torque] #665696
04/04/20 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Torque
Invisible barriers and linear progression kills immersion faster than anything else.

Not really. Big chunk of BG2 is linear. BG1 uses leveling to lead players into a fairly linear progression, on top of pointing them into intended direction via quests. It's not really about how linear/open the game is, but how it is presented. It all comes down to how well (if at all) structure of the game is hidden. Some games try to be immersive but use to obvious ways of confining the player. Some games don't try to be immersive in the first place. Some games are open, but everything is so irrelevant the game feels shallow and unengaging, and as the result unimmersive.

The trick is for you to be engaged enough with the game, as to not think how artificial it is. You not being able to go, or do what you expected to be able to do is one such factor that can bring you out of the experience, but it's just one of many.

Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Wormerine] #665779
06/04/20 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Wormerine
Originally Posted by Torque
Invisible barriers and linear progression kills immersion faster than anything else.

Not really. Big chunk of BG2 is linear. BG1 uses leveling to lead players into a fairly linear progression, on top of pointing them into intended direction via quests. It's not really about how linear/open the game is, but how it is presented. It all comes down to how well (if at all) structure of the game is hidden. Some games try to be immersive but use to obvious ways of confining the player. Some games don't try to be immersive in the first place. Some games are open, but everything is so irrelevant the game feels shallow and unengaging, and as the result unimmersive.

The trick is for you to be engaged enough with the game, as to not think how artificial it is. You not being able to go, or do what you expected to be able to do is one such factor that can bring you out of the experience, but it's just one of many.


Obviously. The game has to lead to the end. But what the game does is basically, "you should probably go here, but wait a minute, look over there.. whats that? an area totally unrelated to your current goals..?". The game offers a linear route down through the middle of the map and you can basically reach the end by avoiding pretty much 90% of the content (number pulled out of the air). BG2 doesnt offer as much freedom, though.

There has to be limits within the game but as long as the "wall" that blocks you offers some kind of in-game explanation its usually fine. As my example above, you cant enter Baldurs Gate because of the iron shortage. This is enough of a barrier even if it doesnt makes complete sense.

Last edited by Torque; 06/04/20 08:32 AM.
Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665781
06/04/20 08:59 AM
06/04/20 08:59 AM
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Well, when I understand all of you correctly the best open world game was Gothic 1.
The area is surrounded by a magical barrier that kills everyone who wants to leave and the main story is to escape this place.

I really liked the general concept of Gothic1+2.
You could go almost everywhere you want, but in the beginning you were very weak and everything could kill you.
You could also climb and swim almost everywhere, only the magic barrier stopped you.
Those games were great, just the combat system and controls were far from perfect.

In that sense BG1 was better than BG2.
BG1 was one giant map ( plus indoor areas and dungeons ) and nothing but strong monsters stopped you from going everywhere.


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Re: BG3 Open World [Re: Saxon1974] #665782
06/04/20 10:40 AM
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I prefer RPGs with a somewhat more linear structure. Acts give narrative purpose. In open world sandbox games, you're quickly swamped in quests and lose sense of direction. Everything blends together, and the quest log becomes a vital crutch for the quests to even give a sense of completion by the time they are finished.

BG2 was somewhat, mostly, linear and the many chapters divided story progression and geographical locations. Most of which you were locked out of once completed. Irenicus' Dungeon, Baldur's Gate region, Brynnlaw, Underdark, back to Baldur's Gate region. DOS2's acts weren't dissimilar to that. So much of the criticism directed at the linear form of DOS2 and by presumptive extension BG3, is also indirectly a criticism against the original game, which is funny to me.

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