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Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666198
11/04/20 11:01 PM
11/04/20 11:01 PM
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qhristoff Offline
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and me, I loved PoE so much I spent 400 hours playing every class through to the end, but I cannot stand DOS or DOS2. I was heartbroken by what Obsidian did with Deadfire. It as so disappointing to go from modern classic to modern crap.

In DOS I get about as far as the fist city where you end up meeting a woman in a tub who tells you to get out. By that point, my frustration with the dialogue system reaches peak and I just say fuck it. Likewise, in DOS2 I just can't get out of Fort Joy because the meme level companions just piss me off so much I want nothing to do with the game.

Last edited by qhristoff; 11/04/20 11:02 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: etonbears] #666234
12/04/20 01:48 PM
12/04/20 01:48 PM
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Omegaphallic Offline
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Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by Seraphael

I think we agree BG3 is a smart move for both Larian and especially Wizards of the Coast. BG3 will revive a dead classic and furthermore showcase both D&D 5e and Larian. Taking the example of another Black Isle Studio title; the rights to Fallout was bought by Bethesda back in 2007. Fallout 3 was a revolution in terms of game mechanics and played nothing like its prequels, yet brought millions new gamers into the fandom.


If, as with the change in the Fallout franchise, Larian were producing BG3 as a first-person, real-time, single-player RPG set in the Forgotten Realms with newly-developed mechanics, I would be looking forward to it with much greater anticipation. But that is not what BG3 is going to be.


Thank the Gods it's not that.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Omegaphallic] #666242
12/04/20 02:40 PM
12/04/20 02:40 PM
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Eton, Berkshire, EU
etonbears Offline
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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by etonbears
Originally Posted by Seraphael

I think we agree BG3 is a smart move for both Larian and especially Wizards of the Coast. BG3 will revive a dead classic and furthermore showcase both D&D 5e and Larian. Taking the example of another Black Isle Studio title; the rights to Fallout was bought by Bethesda back in 2007. Fallout 3 was a revolution in terms of game mechanics and played nothing like its prequels, yet brought millions new gamers into the fandom.


If, as with the change in the Fallout franchise, Larian were producing BG3 as a first-person, real-time, single-player RPG set in the Forgotten Realms with newly-developed mechanics, I would be looking forward to it with much greater anticipation. But that is not what BG3 is going to be.


Thank the Gods it's not that.


From whose perspective? TT D&D has always been a niche interest since its introduction in the 1970s, and I seriously doubt that BG3 can, or will, do anything to change that, if that is truly what WotC hope. As for Larian, they would have a much larger market potential if BG3 were more like TW3 or Bethesda games.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666245
12/04/20 03:32 PM
12/04/20 03:32 PM
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I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: kanisatha] #666246
12/04/20 03:50 PM
12/04/20 03:50 PM
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Emrikol Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Overlap between fanbases of both games? I suspect there is a lot. Overlap between fanatics who hold one or the other to be an inviolate, sacred masterpiece? Probably not.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: kanisatha] #666247
12/04/20 03:51 PM
12/04/20 03:51 PM
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korotama Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Larian fans are just happy to be getting a new game and I'm happy for them too. That said, trying to sell this game to BG fans without some of the series staples is quite a gamble. Maybe it will work, maybe it won't.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Emrikol] #666248
12/04/20 03:52 PM
12/04/20 03:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Overlap between fanbases of both games? I suspect there is a lot. Overlap between fanatics who hold one or the other to be an inviolate, sacred masterpiece? Probably not.

Apparently Sawyer and Vincke have reached the conclusion there is very little overlap. Well, between PoE and DOS at least. It makes sense but no one knows for sure how representative POE is of the BG fandom. Actually, there are a lot of unknowns here a company can ill afford.

Last edited by korotama; 12/04/20 03:56 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: korotama] #666249
12/04/20 04:01 PM
12/04/20 04:01 PM
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Emrikol Offline
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Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Overlap between fanbases of both games? I suspect there is a lot. Overlap between fanatics who hold one or the other to be an inviolate, sacred masterpiece? Probably not.

Apparently Sawyer and Vincke have reached the conclusion there is very little overlap. Well, between PoE and DOS at least. It makes sense but no one knows for sure how representative POE is of the BG fandom. Actually, there are a lot of unknowns here a company can ill afford.

PoE and DOS? Maybe not, considering they are basically contemporaneous. But how many fans of DOS never played or liked BG1&2? If there are many, I suspect they are mostly younger people who got into gaming anywhere from a few to many years after BG2 was released.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: kanisatha] #666250
12/04/20 04:08 PM
12/04/20 04:08 PM
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korotama Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

I don't know who was in charge of market research but when you have a high-budget project on your hands like this you're going to want to find out as much as you humanly can about your target audience. You'll run a few surveys (I believe this is what companies like Atlus do on a regular basis) to gauge stuff like preferred art direction, lore continuity, gameplay mechanics, which helps you make an informed decision. In the long run such valuable info will have saved you time, money and even pain. You'll also have found out who the overwhelming majority is, who the zealots are etc. Then we wouldn't even be having this argument right now.

Last edited by korotama; 12/04/20 04:09 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Emrikol] #666251
12/04/20 04:12 PM
12/04/20 04:12 PM
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korotama Offline
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Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by korotama
Originally Posted by Emrikol
Originally Posted by kanisatha
I've been saying for a long while now that the D:OS fanbase does not have a significant overlap with the BG fanbase, so the D:OS and PoE demographics having little overlap makes complete sense to me. This is why I also say that Larian making BG3 primarily for the D:OS fanbase rather than for the BG fanbase does not make sense. And yes, the game IS being made primarily for the D:OS fanbase.

Overlap between fanbases of both games? I suspect there is a lot. Overlap between fanatics who hold one or the other to be an inviolate, sacred masterpiece? Probably not.

Apparently Sawyer and Vincke have reached the conclusion there is very little overlap. Well, between PoE and DOS at least. It makes sense but no one knows for sure how representative POE is of the BG fandom. Actually, there are a lot of unknowns here a company can ill afford.

PoE and DOS? Maybe not, considering they are basically contemporaneous. But how many fans of DOS never played or liked BG1&2? If there are many, I suspect they are mostly younger people who got into gaming anywhere from a few to many years after BG2 was released.

That might be true but your guess is as good as mine. I've read posts on here to the effect that BG is one of their favorite series of all time despite being young themselves - they had learned of the series through word of mouth, via reviews that heaped praise on it etc.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666256
12/04/20 05:28 PM
12/04/20 05:28 PM
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qhristoff Offline
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^ almost every day on /r/baldursgate new players arrive and post about how much they love the game.

1998 to 2020.

That's why it's a masterpiece. It is literally timeless.

I want Larian to succeed, despite all my criticism, but I highly doubt they will because they are choosing to circumvent this 22 year legacy to push their own RPG identity into the franchise.

They'd have been far better off calling it something like "Baldur's Gate: Absolution" or "Baldur's Gate: Ceremorphosis" (that second one sucks, I admit, I was just filling in space, I think "Absolution" after the Cult of the Absolute is so poignant and a much better title).

the 3 indicates a DIRECT narrative connection between 1/2 and 3 ... which implies Bhallspawn legacy, but that is over which has been confirmed. This is a new story with new characters that feature the Dead Three - it's more about them than it is the previous games, in which case "Baldur's Gate: the Three" would be an apt pun on this being the third title, and also being about the Dead Three.

BG3 is pure nostalgia bait, and a really cheap low blow by Larian.

Best analogy I can come up with is Starcraft. Imagine Blizz came along and said "SC3 will be TB" and just left it at that. Videogames are still games, and that core game PLAY part is a piece of the recipe that, if changed, completely changes the flavour of the finished product.

Last edited by qhristoff; 12/04/20 05:43 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: qhristoff] #666257
12/04/20 06:53 PM
12/04/20 06:53 PM
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Ser Varnell Offline
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Originally Posted by qhristoff
BG3 is pure nostalgia bait, and a really cheap low blow by Larian.

Best analogy I can come up with is Starcraft. Imagine Blizz came along and said "SC3 will be TB" and just left it at that. Videogames are still games, and that core game PLAY part is a piece of the recipe that, if changed, completely changes the flavour of the finished product.


Well heres a thought : What if Wizards of the Sword Coast encouraged them or even gave them specifically the license to make Baldurs gate 3 with that specific title?
and they have even confirmed direct narrative connection to the first two... is that not good enough? I dont know, I played and loved BG2 when i was a kid and I am
by no means convinced that it will be so radically different based primarily on the combat system.

Last edited by Ser Varnell; 12/04/20 06:54 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666258
12/04/20 07:12 PM
12/04/20 07:12 PM
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qhristoff Offline
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I mean, sure, we don't know 100%, but at present the only narrative link that they have confirmed is that BG1/2 happened 100 years ago and people remember as history to varying levels of accuracy. We know that the Dead Three are involved.

But, that just confirms that BG1/2 are cannon. So is the Underdark and Menzoberannzen. The existence of Forgotten Realms deities doesn't necessarily make it Baldur's Gate.

We know 100% certainly that the Gorion/Jon Irenecus story is FINISHED, completed, and done. Adam Smith goes to great lengths to point out that this is a rare thing when making a sequel, which has freed them up to make new stories and characters.

Imagine if Disney had called Mandalorian "Star Wars 10" just because it features the empire and a throwback to Yoda, and it takes place 50 years later.

It doesn't really matter who made the decision to call it BG3 .. it was a marketing decision, not an artistic one. That's why I call it a low blow.

Last edited by qhristoff; 12/04/20 08:16 PM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666259
12/04/20 08:43 PM
12/04/20 08:43 PM
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To be fair, although using BG3 as the name is clearly a marketing tactic, I doubt that the name alone would actually convince many people to buy it. How often does anyone here buy games without at least looking at a few reviews or non-marketing information sources?

I certainly want to like the game enough to buy it, or I wouldn't bother commenting here, but I am still on the fence as I am not a fan of the Original Sin games, or games that have a poor SP experience or weak RP credentials.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666269
12/04/20 11:47 PM
12/04/20 11:47 PM
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Ser Varnell Offline
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Good points from both of you I must admit. Here's hoping we at least get a game that will keep us entertained for a good while...

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Omegaphallic] #666272
13/04/20 01:11 AM
13/04/20 01:11 AM
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The Frog & Hounds
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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by etonbears
If, as with the change in the Fallout franchise, Larian were producing BG3 as a first-person, real-time, single-player RPG set in the Forgotten Realms with newly-developed mechanics, I would be looking forward to it with much greater anticipation. But that is not what BG3 is going to be.


Thank the Gods it's not that.

I was actually going to pin a troll thread announcing exactly this on April the 1st. I was told not to. *sulks*


J'aime le fromage.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666283
13/04/20 06:12 AM
13/04/20 06:12 AM
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Sordak Offline
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we almost made progress in these threads and now were going back to the same bullshit you posted weeks ago.
Do you never get tired of the same nonsense?
Marketing tactic? Realy? when they were asked to do it. takes a 5 minute google search to figure out.
And of course theres no overlap between PoE and DOS fanbases.

The PoE games are almost universally considered to be terrible and the only people that play them are contrarians who hate innovation or games jouranlists.

sayng that theres no overlap between the DOS fanbase and the infinity engine fanbase is ridiculous.
Only you dont count people that played the Infinity engine games back in the day and then evolved thei taste.

You only count those who refuse to play anyhting but.

Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666285
13/04/20 06:15 AM
13/04/20 06:15 AM
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qhristoff Offline
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POE was largely received to critical acclaim. It was POE2 that failed and fans of the series near unanimously agree that Deadfire improved upon the mechanical game in myriad ways.

POE1 is a modern cult classic.

Last edited by qhristoff; 13/04/20 06:17 AM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666295
13/04/20 06:36 AM
13/04/20 06:36 AM
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Sordak Offline
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by games journalists.
PoE 1 is not a modern cult classic by any metric.

you gotta live in fantasy land to think that.
PoE played it way too safe and was far too unmemorable fo rthat title.
If aynthing, thatd be Pathfinder Kingmaker

Last edited by Sordak; 13/04/20 06:37 AM.
Re: Am I the only one looking forward to this game? [Re: Andy Butula] #666297
13/04/20 06:42 AM
13/04/20 06:42 AM
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qhristoff Offline
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Pillars was a critical success, not a financial one. Metacritic score 89%. Same score as games like DOOM Eternal and Ori and the Will of the Wisps. Also both critically acclaimed titles. Only 4 points below DOS2, which has 93% Metacritic. DOS 1 only got 87% though ... HMMMMMMMMMMMmmmmMMmMmMMMMmmmmmm......

How is that for a metric?

"you'd have to be delusional" to ignore actual facts and statistics that you happen to disagree with.

edit: for those playing the home game, BG1 and BG2 got 91% and 95%, respectively - the EEs considerably less.

Last edited by qhristoff; 13/04/20 06:54 AM.
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