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I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. #665174
28/03/20 06:34 PM
28/03/20 06:34 PM
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Phil5000 Offline OP
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Hi guys. I really got stuck when I got to the mainland from Fort Joy. I had been fine up to then but I just couldn't proceed in any direction or with any quest because there always seemed to be an impossible battle blocking me. In order to simply keep playing the game I was forced to switch to Explorer but now the game is boring because there's no challenge.

I don't want to criticise the game unduly but I could use some tips on how to make the game more of a challenge on Explorer. I've decided no resurrection scrolls and no runes. I would drop a party member but I love them all and want to do their quests.

Did anyone else have this problem? What did you do? Did you persevere with Classic or switch to Explorer? I'm sure some people just gave up.

Thanks everyone.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665285
30/03/20 04:04 AM
30/03/20 04:04 AM
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WINoodles Offline
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Phil, you need some myths dispelled about the game.

First, the resurrection scrolls are there for a reason. Sometimes you make a mistake or something random happens in combat that you can't predict or stop. This results in a character getting killed. Even the best players occasionally get a character killed. Also, in your first play through, there are DEFINITELY things you will encounter for the first time that will wipe most if not all of your party. No spoilers other than, it will happen. Getting a character killed and using a resurrection scroll is not something to be ashamed of. For that matter, most of the consumables in the game are there for a reason. Use them if you need them.

Second, gear matters. If you are running into difficulty, update your old gear. As a general rule, the gray gear is cheap and should be kept at the level of your character. Green gear can be at level or 1 level below your character's level. Blue gear 1-2 levels below, purples and unique gear can often be useful for 3-4 levels. However, if something is more than 4-5 levels below your characters level, it needs to be replaced.

Third, party composition matters. If you have one character burning opponents and another trying to freeze them, you likely won't accomplish much. Three things that you should have on two characters (not the same two, spread the responsibility around the party) is magic armor replenish , physical armor replenish and healing. It is OK to have a healer in the group that covers all three. If you do that, try to have a separate character be the back up character for each of the other three.

Forth, D:OS2 is an open world game. That means you are entirely capable of stumbling into areas way above your character level. Fort Joy mitigates this to a point, Driftwood does not. Be sure to check the levels of the combats you are getting into.

Fifth, tactics can be a big part of the game. Take some time at the beginning of a fight and come up with a plan for the party. Some opponents will have very little magic armor, some will have very little physical armor. Plan your the fight so that your group can strip the armor from opponents as quickly as possible so you can begin to crowd control them. Some fights are designed for the player to attack from a specific direction and the opposition has all the advantages if you do. Try to find a different way to start the fight to remove the advantages from your opposition. Examine your opponents. Some opponents will be have high to 100% resistance to certain types of magical attacks. These opponents will have weaknesses to a different element. Try to attack them using the element they are weak to.

Sixth, XP is a factor in the game. While the main quest line does a decent job of forcing enough XP on you to keep your party at a reasonable level, you should do as many side quests as possible to get as much XP as possible. For someone familiar with the game, it can be quite easy to stay ahead of the level the game expects you to be at. However, this involves finding and completing as many side quests as possible. Conversely, if you have not even completed all of the main quest line, you could be under level. The only way to catch up is to do all of the side quests you can find.

Finally, character builds matter. Each character should have one main ability focus, be that Warfare, Summoning, Geomancy, etc. They should have a secondary focus that should have some synergy with the primary focus. Often there are specific spells that will aide a build that are outside the two main ability sets, it is ok to put a point or two into other abilities to pick up these spells. Just remember to keep a main focus.

Any one of the above or multiple of the above could be the reason(s) your are running into trouble. I hope this helps and you can stick to the classic difficulty setting. However, I suspect once you figure out where the problem is, you may find classic becoming too easy. That will give you a reason to do another run with a different party on tactician difficulty.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665286
30/03/20 04:30 AM
30/03/20 04:30 AM
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WINoodles Offline
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One more thing. On your first play through, the talent Pet Pal is STRONGLY recommended on your main character. If not your main, another party member should have it. If not, you are definitely missing out on some easy XP quests and a bit humor in the game as well.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665418
31/03/20 11:09 PM
31/03/20 11:09 PM
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Phil5000 Offline OP
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Hi WINoodles, thanks so much for taking the time to write all that out. But actually I would say I'm doing all or most of that. I did initially start out with a major party error; three of my guys were doing physical attacks and one was doing magic. So I respecced her and now she's doing considerable physical damage and complimenting the party.

I'm at level 14 now and arrived at the lone wolf base to rescue the elf scion. With the fight with Roost I don't lose anyone and we beat him resonably easily. My tank is standing up to everything he can throw at her while the rogue, archer and warrior are dishing out 100 to 150 damage easily and (250 damage crits) per shot. I'm also summoning one incarnate (he's small my warrior has a Sum of 3) and using an item to summon a lava slug. So I think we do quite well.

Now we have to fight our way out and its not even remotely possible. The instant we poke our nose out of the building everyone attacks us and we're quickly overwhelmed. Your post has given me an idea about coming at fights different ways. I could try teleporting out and then attacking from a different position were we won't get mobbed as quickly. But to be honest, and contrary to what you said of all the times I've tried to think outside the box and come at fights using planning and positioning the game does something to thwart it. Its like its simply refusing to allow it. Like its insisting the combat is about skills and abilities and if you can't cope with that you shouldn't be playing.

Also I'm confident I've done everything up to this point with the exception of finding the magister killer in Driftwood and the quest for the paladins to find out what the white magisters are doing in the Black Pits. I got to the dock and saw the enemies were level 16. That's it. I'm lev 14 and everything else is higher so its this or nothing.

I would like to very much play on Classic because the game is boring if its too easy. Not only is the combat boring but finding new gear is meaningless and levelling up is meaningless. Its ruined the game for me actually.

Let me ask you one thing about Res scrolls. If someone goes down in combat do you res them during combat or when its over? Because I found if I ressed them during combat they would more or less be instantly killed again, and if I didn't I would more than likely lose the fight because I couldn't afford to lose that character.

Anyway thanks again for your advice, I really appreciate it.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665421
01/04/20 12:02 AM
01/04/20 12:02 AM
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LostSoul Offline
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In regard to use rez scrolls, use turn based to your advantage. For eg use invis potion, delay your turn to go last, then rez.
The rezzed characters will get a go to heal, move etc before being killed again. You you craft rez idol during combat after its been used too.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665422
01/04/20 12:06 AM
01/04/20 12:06 AM
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And at the mill .. ive usually killed my way in.. so leaving wasn't much of an issue. But you can tp out, come from the side, kill one on her own (she hits hard), then you kill 4. Then the ones at the front gate. Good luck

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665423
01/04/20 12:21 AM
01/04/20 12:21 AM
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WINoodles Offline
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There is a trick to exiting the Roost fight. Don't go anywhere. Stay tucked in where you come down from the Roost fight. If you keep the fight localized, Mommy Dearest should not come or if she does, it will be at least 4 turns into the fight. Staying tucked in should prevent the 4 wolves by the main gate from getting aggroed in. This should leave you to fight just 4 wolves, the 2 by the drudanae pipe, the dwarf in the back, and the sleeping one that tells you where the treasure chest is. She is by far the most dangerous opponent due to the teleport spell. I suspect she may be teleporting one of your characters to a spot that aggroes the 4 at the main gate. You will want to save a heavy hitter to strip her of armor quick to CC her and prevent her from messing up your plans.

Basically the fight to get out of the sawmill should work like this. Get down from the Roost fight room. Send one character out to aggro the two by the pipe. Fall back to the group and focus out one of the two. These two are connected to the dwarf and the sleeping wolf. If you fall back, they should get to you turn 3. The dwarf is annoying with polymorph and will summon an oil blob, which does little damage, but is highly annoying due to the oil slow down effect. However, if you have a character with Oily Carapace (created by combining a Warfare and a Geomancy skill books), you can minimize that impact. Again, when the formerly sleeping wolf gets to you, she is target #1. Get her down before she can start to teleport your party member around. Doing this should keep the fight to just a 4v4. I'm not counting Saheila (efl scion) as will be of little aide in the combat.

With the four taken care of, go into the north entrance of the building with Mommy Dearest. It will take all of your characters to take her down before she starts to take down you characters. Just as the spirit warns, she is FAST and hits HARD. Take the advice of the spirit, "If only it would rain." Use a rain scroll on her, or the spell if you have it.

That should leave you with just 4 at the gate. You can slip past them out the back to get Saheila out safely, if you want and then come back for them. However, they aren't too hard to take down. Throw an oil grenade or use Fossil Strike or Impalement to slow down the two on the ground and make it into two 4v2 fights. The other 2 will have high ground. You have three choices. You can charge them, teleport them to you or pull back into the building to get them to chase you and get them off of high ground. You know your party and should be able to make the choice that best fits it.

ROFL!!! The magister killer quest is level 9-10. That should be a pretty easy ROFL stomp. Good call on the Paladin quest. It can be done at level 15, but to be honest, it is typically the last thing I do in act 2.

Res in combat. The way to do it, is to pick the character that will do the res and delay their turn. This way, when you raise the fallen character, they will have one round to take potions and use spells to get a bit more battle ready or pull back enough that they would get killed again. You may want to look into the spell "Living on the Edge". It only requires 2 in Necromancy and prevents a character from going below 1 health for two turns. I think it becomes available from merchants from level 12 to 14. At level 14, you definitely have access to it. It is an incredibly useful spell for at least 3 fights in act 2.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665424
01/04/20 12:28 AM
01/04/20 12:28 AM
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WINoodles Offline
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100% agree with LostSoul. Killing your way in is an option and starting with MommyDearest is typically the best place to start. There are two things that change if you kill your way in. As LostSoul points out, you can just walk out after killing Roost. Also, when you go to Roost, you won't be able to do any dialog. This is only an issue if you have Sebeile or Ifan in your party.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665580
03/04/20 04:16 AM
03/04/20 04:16 AM
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Phil5000 Offline OP
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Thanks very much for writing out your strategy for the mill battle. I teleported out then attacked from the outside, which seemed to work reasonaly well.

Originally Posted by WINoodles


ROFL!!! The magister killer quest is level 9-10. That should be a pretty easy ROFL stomp. Good call on the Paladin quest. It can be done at level 15, but to be honest, it is typically the last thing I do in act 2.



I decided not to do that one because I was sympathetic to the killer and there was no option for "I'll keep your sectret." I think you can kill the magister in charge of the investigation but I didn't want to do that either so I just left it. No xp for closing it though.



Last edited by Phil5000; 03/04/20 04:25 AM.
Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665581
03/04/20 04:24 AM
03/04/20 04:24 AM
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Phil5000 Offline OP
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Thanks for all the strategy tips guys. I coped well enough with it because it allowed for a certain amount of flexibility when approaching the fight. I tend to do ok with those fights with a little trial and error.

However, my very next fight was when I spoke to the Red Princess and was ambushed by the lizard assassins. I was at their level, outnumbered and had no chance to position myself or employ any kind of strategy in dealing with them. I found this to be very unfair and what really sours me to this game. I had no option but to stand and slug it out and I had no chance. We killed one but then I lost two right after that and that was it. As I sat there watching my party get peeled for the umpteenth time I felt every last bit of enthusiasm for the game drain away. I figured I'd have to go and try and find something to do to get at least one more level but I'd done the entire map nearly and I realised I couldn't be bothered. I'd had it. So at the risk of seeming ungrateful to everyone who tried to help I just put it back to Explorer and now I'm just trying to finish so I can move on to the next game.

Thanks everyone for trying to help though.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665584
03/04/20 06:09 AM
03/04/20 06:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil5000
Thanks very much for writing out your strategy for the mill battle. I teleported out then attacked from the outside, which seemed to work reasonaly well.

Originally Posted by WINoodles


ROFL!!! The magister killer quest is level 9-10. That should be a pretty easy ROFL stomp. Good call on the Paladin quest. It can be done at level 15, but to be honest, it is typically the last thing I do in act 2.



I decided not to do that one because I was sympathetic to the killer and there was no option for "I'll keep your sectret." I think you can kill the magister in charge of the investigation but I didn't want to do that either so I just left it. No xp for closing it though.




Fair point. I have thought an option like that would be nice. To honest, I typically kill the all of the magisters in Driftwood. Just pop Spirit Vision and they will attack you. Because of this, I would love another option in the magister barracks. I think it would be fun to go in and state, "I know who has been killing magisters! It was ME!" 8^>

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #665585
03/04/20 06:15 AM
03/04/20 06:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Phil5000
Thanks for all the strategy tips guys. I coped well enough with it because it allowed for a certain amount of flexibility when approaching the fight. I tend to do ok with those fights with a little trial and error.

However, my very next fight was when I spoke to the Red Princess and was ambushed by the lizard assassins. I was at their level, outnumbered and had no chance to position myself or employ any kind of strategy in dealing with them. I found this to be very unfair and what really sours me to this game. I had no option but to stand and slug it out and I had no chance. We killed one but then I lost two right after that and that was it. As I sat there watching my party get peeled for the umpteenth time I felt every last bit of enthusiasm for the game drain away. I figured I'd have to go and try and find something to do to get at least one more level but I'd done the entire map nearly and I realised I couldn't be bothered. I'd had it. So at the risk of seeming ungrateful to everyone who tried to help I just put it back to Explorer and now I'm just trying to finish so I can move on to the next game.

Thanks everyone for trying to help though.


Enjoy the story then. Larian has done a decent job sneaking some humor into the game.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #666483
16/04/20 06:36 AM
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Phil5000 Offline OP
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I'm at the final battle now, just had the big reveal and everything. Whoopee.

Frankly I'm relieved its over and I can get onto something else. I have a deep love of these kinds of games, which is why I stuck with it, but by the end it had sucked out every bit of enthusiasm and enjoyment I had in it. It started out great. I thought it looked and played great. I enjoyed the Fort Joy section so much I played it through twice. Its when you get to the mainland that the headaches start. The difficulty jumps, and begins a steady rise, and so many unnecessary aggravations start to appear like necro fire, decaying and source vampirism that ruin nearly every battle. And I don't know how many times I had to check an online guide to figure out how to complete a quest or puzzle, and throw my hands up in disbelief because the solution was on one tiny little scrap of paper that was laying around somewhere along the way.

I would not recommend this game to a friend unless they were a serious hardcore min/max gamer and a glutton for punishment. And the only thing that would make me even consider playing it again is I'd like to do the other three companion quests. I loved the companions that I took my first time and their quests were way, way more compelling than the main quest.

Re: I find Classic too hard and Explorer too easy. [Re: Phil5000] #666737
22/04/20 06:12 PM
22/04/20 06:12 PM
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There are lots of things to explore in the game on subsequent play through then just companion quest lines. The traits you choose can impact things as well. Some examples are Barbarian can be used to simply bluff your way to avoiding some fights. If you have the Outlaw talent, Papa Thrash (guarding the door to the undertavern of the Black Bull Tavern) will let you in due to a secret handshake. If you have the Soldier trait, the lizard (Warfare Vendor) in the elf cave at Fort Joy will heavily discount your trades with him. While these have minimal impact on the play through as a whole, discovering these different interactions can give subsequent a fresh feel to the play through.

Also, now that you are finished and know what frustrated you and gave you headaches, is there a character build you might want to try or party composition you want to try to make these easier? Perhaps you are correct, this may be the mentality of a mix/max player. Guilty as charged! 8^>


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