Larian Banner
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 3 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 9 10
Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665325
30/03/20 11:56 AM
30/03/20 11:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
TadasGa Offline
journeyman
TadasGa  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
Cool, my main point was - if you define sex as binary and everything else as error, sex will be binary by definition. Like saying there are only two eye collors - blue and brown, everything else is abnormality. But in real world we can see that it's not so simple. I really don't care what percentage of people have grey eyes, I still would say that they are fully human with fully human rights afforded to them. If there was a massive discrimination and very real threats (and acts) of violence against them I would consider it morally wrong and I would still think that world would be a better place if we viewed each other as humans, not the "other".

>For what we know, the purpose of life appears to be the propergation of information.

Not really. From what we know there is no purpose to life other than what we invent for ourselves or I guess what your religion dictates (please let's not start "meaning of life" discussion). DNA evolving, reproducing itself etc is just emergent property of complex chemical reactions interacting with environment, there is no intentionality. As far as I can tell DNA neither has nor can have feelings, thoughts or intentions. We, as humans, tend to prescribe intentions to things without it.

>The relaity is that these parts are obviously working together to create a functioning human beeing

Same goes for SRY.Also I would like to add that genome alone means next to nothing without environment (e.g womb), it gets really complicated really fast.

>We could spin this discusison ad nauseum because what is "normal" and what is "fit for purpose" can only defined by human beeings, simmilary to what does and does not have "significance".

It's pedantics, but what is "fit for purpose" can be viewed objectively, the subjectivity comes from defining purpose, but generally yes I agree with you on this one and it['s kind of my reasoning. I believe life would be better for everyone if we acted to minimize unnecessary suffering. Memes like "there are only 2 genders" are actively hurting part of humanity without any good reason. Nor is this meme supported by science, empirical data, human feelings etc. It's just all around bad.

> I made a point out of beeing a minority meaning nothing at all. unless your definition of opression is not getting special treatment.

Sure if we ignore job discrimination, physcial violence, humiliation, viewing you as sinful, killing you, etc etc than that means nothing. If asking to be treated as human is special treatment.. I don't know dude, I don't agree.

>Why do you think some minorties are more accepted than others? Because they blend and because they are shown as "People".

As everything it's complex - we would have to talk which minority in what environment. I am sure that being more in line what the perceived status quo is helps, however I do not think it should be requirement, because frankly it's impossible for some (like becoming caucasian). When I said they are shown as people I meant - they are shown loving, hating, being excited or sad, thougtful or mindless etc etc. As people, not as some "other" evil caricatures.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665330
30/03/20 01:36 PM
30/03/20 01:36 PM
Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 585
Omegaphallic Offline
addict
Omegaphallic  Offline
addict

Joined: Jul 2019
Posts: 585
Quote
Oh don't get me wrong, I'm a libertarian (although all the "gender" terms are not scientific and thus are meaningless according to Biology). The point is, do not retcon established franchises to put a "woke" agenda.
If writers create feminist, gay, bissexual characters organically, i.e, it is imperative that they have those traits, then great. But do not make Lando be "gay" for droids. It is retarded.


The simple way to conceptualize the difference between sex and gender is that Gender is the wiring (brain structure) and Plumbing is the rest of the body like sex organs and stuff. Being trans means having wiring that doesn't match the plumbing, with it being easier to just make alteration to the plumbing to make things work better.

And folks who see only binary sexes forget stuff like Intersex, folks XX chromosome males (as it born with male genitals), that with the condition where they change from female to male at puberty thanks to a surge in Testorone from puberty and so on.

Last edited by vometia; 30/03/20 01:47 PM. Reason: fixed quote
Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665331
30/03/20 01:53 PM
30/03/20 01:53 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 310
Belfast
Wormerine Offline
enthusiast
Wormerine  Offline
enthusiast

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 310
Belfast
Originally Posted by StrikerofStars
It's not about being anti-political, just about not using yet another form of art/entertainment as pure political, one-sided propaganda and forgetting about the game itself. Just look at the 3 last Star Wars episodes, FFS...

I don't think that the new StarWars trilogy to be more political, then let's say Fury Road, but the latter was fantastic, while the Star Wars trilogy was... not. I don't think that having a more varied roster of characters then "Caucasian male" is the root of it's problems.One can also mentione how political original StarWars were. Much has been written about world of original trilogy and Vietnam War.

Being political is part of art or entertaiment - always was, always will be. Production Code directed what Hollywood could show and do for over 30 years. It can feel awkward when an IP from a different moral and political era tries to be relevant 50 years later. If it's done well (Fury Road) it's great, when it is not (StarWars) then it is not.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665332
30/03/20 02:31 PM
30/03/20 02:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
S
Sordak Offline
old hand
Sordak  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
id say fury road was not annoying about its politics.
Its characters were flat, becuase its an action movie, but not obnoxiously so.
There was no agency taken away from characters to make a point. Id say the only characters where agency was a quesiton were the women beeing freed.
Taking agency was somewhat of a theme for this movie, which arguably is giving a dumb action film a bit too much credit.

Meanwhile in star wars, agency is taken away from legacy character

TadasGa:
So your issue is with my definition?
Well if the definition beeing based on a vast majority of cases and those examples that do not fit within that beeing "created" in a different way, by which i mean by "acciden" ( i know this implies intent, but lets call it that for simplicity, compared to how reproduction tends to otherwise work in mammels) is not good enaugh a definition for you, then it all boils down to Subjectivism.

In which case its an argument of Ideology and Principle rather than one of science.
You cannot expect an objective answer to a subjective question in that case.

>Massive threats of violence
that seems like a truism. When talking about intersex people, i guess they do get bullied in school, maybe, but kids dont understand nuance and a lot of people get bullied for a lot of reason.
Open violence against those people?
Well i dont know where you live, but certainly not in western or central europe.
maybe if you talk about the middle east or china where the gender of children is a huge deal, sure.

In the western world i think any "issues" therein come from the fact that parents ofthen get asked to make a descision on the sex of the child.
Which then comes to the question: what is medically adviseable versus the wellbeeing of the child.
You obviously cannot know what kind of person a child is going to become, but you can predict medical risks for intervening or not intervening.
In that case, i wouldnt call that open hostility or violence, but a very heavy question on the life of a potential child that can only realy be answered by the parents.
And quite frankly, not a quesiton that theres a definitive answer to, as with many dilemmas.

>Purpose of life
Im not getting into the "Meaning of life".
you are interpreting me wrong.
All meaning is derived from Humans. Flat out. Only a sentient beeing can ascribe meaning to something.

I am not ascribing meaning to life, i am observing what life does.
And from observing life in its various forms one can see what it does. Nameley it tends to propergate information, in some way.
Wether or not theres purpose behind that, is for humans to determine.

but you cannot deny that this is something that all lifeforms , biologically, attempt to acomplish in some fashion.
Of course some humans activeley try to work against that, but thats a conscious descision and quite frankly another topic entierly.

>SRY
again, yes, it appears to be an Enzyme that is integral in the embryonal development. it works together with other factors. What im saying is that yes, theres other factors than chromosomes that help the development of gonads.
Doesnt realy have any impact on the debate on sex.
Unless you want to REALY simplify the debate.

>Memes like there are only two gendes hurt people
do they?
i mean, sure, some intersex people might get hurt. But others might say "yeah duh, but that doesnt mean i dont exist it means that i am literaly, in some fahsion, part of both genders".
Thats what i said, you cannot assume Offense on the behalf of those people.

There might be intersex people who DONT want to be seen as a Third gender because that makes them "other" from other people, rather than including them.
you cannot know this and thus you cannot say that one or the other way of saying it hurts or helps them.
Theres not a lot of em, but theres enaugh that they have different opinions (by which i mean theres more than one)

>Discrimination
im again asking the *where*
im not making a moral argument for China or Saudi Arabia.
But i dont think theres literal lynchmobs going around for intersex people.
as for job discrimination: its hard to pin that down since theres so many factors.
Im pretty sure im at a disadvantage for having a very complicated last name. Im pretty sure that if you mention wanting to have children on Social Media your employment will become more difficult.


>Becoming caucasian
in america maybe.
In europa, well. I can talk about central europe and its culture as lot but due to many migration periods and wars, people tend to differentiate on a lot of factors and looks is only one of them.

By blending i mean blending into public consciousness BY not acting a lot different from the general public.
This might be a tough pill to swallow, but this is not somehting you can argue away. People will extend more leeway and consideration to them they consider to be on their "Team"

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665336
30/03/20 03:52 PM
30/03/20 03:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
TadasGa Offline
journeyman
TadasGa  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
If you define that there are only 2 genders, it's ammunition for homophoboes, transphobes etc. That's the problem with memes, both shitty and good memes eventually end up in legistlation. In five countries and in parts of two others, homosexuality is still punishable with the death penalty, while a further 70 imprison citizens because of their sexual orientation. Fairly recently in Poland: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_ideology-free_zone

>again, yes, it appears to be an Enzyme that is integral in the embryonal development. it works together with other factors. What im saying is that yes, theres other factors than chromosomes that help the development of gonads.
>Doesnt realy have any impact on the debate on sex.

That argument is just against there are only 2 sexes and they are defined by XX and XY.

>But i dont think theres literal lynchmobs going around for intersex people.

Is that your standard for discrimination?
https://www.transequality.org/sites/default/files/docs/USTS-Full-Report-FINAL.PDF
https://www.nbcnews.com/feature/nbc...s-motivated-anti-lgbtq-bias-fbi-n1080891
etc etc

>People will extend more leeway and consideration to them they consider to be on their "Team"

Agreed, that's why it's good to include marginalized communities in media, so they are shown as part of the "team" and not some kind of weird "other" you saw that one time in right winger youtube video.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665337
30/03/20 04:19 PM
30/03/20 04:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9
T
Turretsyndrome Offline
stranger
Turretsyndrome  Offline
stranger
T

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9
Thanks for making the thread.

Larian, please don't follow in Bioware's steps now that you're relatively successful. PLEASE DO NOT USE YOUR GAMES TO PUSH AN AGENDA.

Games can contain politics, maybe they "will" contain politics like a lot of people here are saying and maybe we can't avoid them but I'd rather not see the game become a device utilized to push an opinion as the RIGHT thing. Bioware did that, focused on that and look where they are now.

Include choices that are diverse, and not make us feel helpless in the face of the writer's agenda(again, like what Bioware did).

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665338
30/03/20 04:34 PM
30/03/20 04:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 92
Rafoca Offline
journeyman
Rafoca  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 92
This is such a weird thread. Let devs make what they want. Politics are part of our lives.

Learn to deal with different opinions than yours, and in the process you may learn a thing or two

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: Turretsyndrome] #665339
30/03/20 05:17 PM
30/03/20 05:17 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 191
Between Madness & Insanity
Eguzky Offline
member
Eguzky  Offline
member

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 191
Between Madness & Insanity
Originally Posted by Turretsyndrome
Thanks for making the thread.

Larian, please don't follow in Bioware's steps now that you're relatively successful. PLEASE DO NOT USE YOUR GAMES TO PUSH AN AGENDA.

Games can contain politics, maybe they "will" contain politics like a lot of people here are saying and maybe we can't avoid them but I'd rather not see the game become a device utilized to push an opinion as the RIGHT thing. Bioware did that, focused on that and look where they are now.

Include choices that are diverse, and not make us feel helpless in the face of the writer's agenda(again, like what Bioware did).

Again; an agenda, or politics, flavors everything people do. You base your actions on your worldview. Do you think people need help? Then you donate to the local food bank. That's a personal agenda; to help the hungry.

Are you someone who feels the LBGTQ community needs more repesentation? You might add a few characters to your book/movie/story that fit that role. Even if they come off as natural due to good writing, it might be your 'agenda' that added them in the first place.

And the thing is; whenever someone disagrees with a bit of media, be it book/movie/show/game, they will start looking for agendas they disagree with and say 'This is why it sucks!'.

It is almost impossible to NOT put your personal views in your work, because your personal views are part of WHO YOU ARE. Even if you just like chocolate, so you give one of the characters an addiction to chocolate that pops up at funny moments. That personal view has now made it into the game with your statement 'I really like chocolate'.
And someone looking to attack your story/game could say 'Character with chocolate addiction! Making fun of diabetics/Obese people/addicts?'

Anything can be politicized these days, and usually is, when someone needs ammo to attack something they hate.
..Or when websites/'games journalists' (ugh) need clicks '10 reasons why the protag of BG3 was secretly a genderfluid tree in love with a bumblebee! You won't believe number 8!' or '10 reasons why Larian are liberals, and why their game succeeded/failed!'

It will always be there, because everything we do, we do based on our personal views and life choices. IE: Personal politics & agendas.
Most people saying 'Please don't add politics' are saying 'Please don't add something I won't like'. Because they don't want politics they don't like. If they agree with a statement, they probably won't even be aware that it was there at all.
We only take note of things we disagree with. It's kind of the human condition, sadly; we don't care, so long as it does not bother us.

Last edited by Eguzky; 30/03/20 05:19 PM.
Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: Rafoca] #665341
30/03/20 05:35 PM
30/03/20 05:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 91
S
Seraphael Offline
journeyman
Seraphael  Offline
journeyman
S

Joined: Sep 2017
Posts: 91
Would agree STRONGLY to keep modern-day politics out of the game. Games are escapism, and in today's overly politicized world with radicalization and culture war, we may need a break more than ever before. That said, WotC is every bit as progressive/regressive a company as Bioware, and I fully expect them to nudge Larian in that direction.

Originally Posted by Rafoca
This is such a weird thread. Let devs make what they want. Politics are part of our lives.

Learn to deal with different opinions than yours, and in the process you may learn a thing or two

Hah! Did I hear the pot calling the kettle black? The issue is not about not tolerating different opinions, at least not the way you probably imagine it. This is about not wanting grating and unrelenting neo-moralizing propagandizing of ONE politically correct viewpoint inserted in a game that depends upon immersion. That's the opposite of pluralism you espouse.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker licensed by Paizo is a recent relevant example; about all the female characters were shallow radical feminist tropes. The oppression, oh the humanity, won't someone think of the women! Their Stream forum was zealously moderated by radicals who went on an ideological crusade against heretics. At one point like 1 in 10 (confirmation bias trigger warning) of the regulars was banned (at least I never saw so much posts for later banned people in my life) and warnings were handed out like a paedo hands out candy during Halloween lol.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: Eguzky] #665342
30/03/20 06:20 PM
30/03/20 06:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9
T
Turretsyndrome Offline
stranger
Turretsyndrome  Offline
stranger
T

Joined: Mar 2016
Posts: 9
Originally Posted by Eguzky

It will always be there, because everything we do, we do based on our personal views and life choices. IE: Personal politics & agendas.
Most people saying 'Please don't add politics' are saying 'Please don't add something I won't like'. Because they don't want politics they don't like. If they agree with a statement, they probably won't even be aware that it was there at all.
We only take note of things we disagree with. It's kind of the human condition, sadly; we don't care, so long as it does not bother us.


No. It might seem difficult to distinguish and then broadly paint it all as the same thing(agenda) but it is not. The creator's comments or thoughts about the implementation quite often spills the beans. We see this all the time with movies these days.

I don't really like to get into this as I've learned to distance myself from "statement makers" over the years. I'll just leave it at saying that it's pretty easy to spot and is laid bare when the creator mentions "representation" as a reason for implementation. Again, like Bioware.

Larian can do whatever they want and I'm not one to object to that. I'm just giving them my two cents that going after a certain agenda be it "inclusivity", "diversity" or rainbow colours or whatever and using the game as a device to push that is not recommended as it usually comes at a cost of the RPG experience becoming lopsided.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665343
30/03/20 06:26 PM
30/03/20 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
S
Sordak Offline
old hand
Sordak  Offline
old hand
S

Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 1,151
for one i dont care who it gives amunition to.
I think defining sex as beeing two genders gives homophobes (why homophobes anyway? homosexuals kind of stop beeing meaningfull if theres more than two genders) less ammunition than obscene displays at pride parades do.
If gender would be "officially" defined as having more than two sexes, you think this would persuade anyone to change their mind in that case?

As for Poland and its LGBT ideology free zone:
You got it exactly the wrong way around.
This is what im trying to say. Its not that poland is going around shooting gay people there.
Its explicitly against the ideology of normalizing it.

You can disagree with that and say thats bullshit. but this position has widespraed appeal in poland.
So wether you like it or not, youll have to persuade people in poland if you want to get them over to your side.

Persuade is the important word here.
PERSUADE instead of SUBVERT.

Poland is a highly christian country and if you try to subver that from the outside, they will not change.
ive actually had this discussion with a very catholic woman once, who told me that basically, the cahtolic church got pretty far in saying "yeah actually its ok" because aperently, the entire "Homosexuality is bad" part of the bible stems from the belief that there was a limited ammount of sperm in the male body and that it needs to be preserved.
More itnerrestingly, the Bible actually has nothing to say on Lesbianism and is basically not prohibiting it.

Either way. What im saying is, nobody is int he position to force their beliefs on a majority.
Trying to do so will only result in backlash

>Deaht penalty on homosexuality

Well for one i dont know how we came from Intersex people to homosexuality, but right.
So on the deaht penalty.
Theres a certain kind of country that has the deaht penalty for homosexuals. Muslim theocracies or at least very religious muslim countries.
I think theres only 3 muslim majority countries that dont prohibit it (bosnia, malaysia and turkey if i recall correctly)
Im certainly not jumping to the defense of those.
but i dont think that portrayal in Video Games (western devil media) will persuade any of those people to change their stance.
Likewise i dont think that a western definition of Gender would persuade them, since they dont give a shit about what the west has to say anyway.

Good that we agree on the biology thing.

>Discrimination
nother big topic since it happens to a lot of people for a variety of reasons.
Youll never fully get rid of it because how the human brain is rigged.
But you certainly wont get rid of it by forcing things on people.
which gets me to

>Including marginalized groups
It is exactly the opposit way around.
Including them in ludircous ways otherizes them more.

Especialy if their inclusion is, liek ti is in many of the "woke" media is at the detriment of characters representing the majority.
These stories are either supposed to be aimed at the minorities themselves, trying to score points with them, or at the woke bubble that doenst need to be persuaded.

To me, it appears to be invasive, it appears to be disliking the majoity and it seems to not include the minorities, it seems to be activeley holding them to a different standard and showing their otherness.

To give a random example of where the inclusion is done well, id point towards, i know random example, Dr House, cause ive been watching that show as of late.
Theres no tokenism there, no elevation of minority status. Its just there.
Whats also important is, that minorities arent overrepresented. Because that again gives off wrong vibes.
Like those fake commercial friends groups where everyone is some token persona.
Just feels jarring and uncanny.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665346
30/03/20 06:52 PM
30/03/20 06:52 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
TadasGa Offline
journeyman
TadasGa  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 66
>If gender would be "officially" defined as having more than two sexes, you think this would persuade anyone to change their mind in that case?

It's about changing societal meme, just like "slavery is ok" were societal memes. We grew past that. We can grow past that one as well.

>PERSUADE instead of SUBVERT.

I don't understand how having minorities in video games is subversion, the whole point is showing people as people. You probably won't change lifetime indoctrination of 80 year old babushka, but younger people, absolutely.

>Poland is a highly christian country and if you try to subver that from the outside, they will not change.

It's completely different topic, but https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_web_brigades seem to be fairly effective. I wouldn't be so sure.

>the entire "Homosexuality is bad" part of the bible stems from the belief that there was a limited ammount of sperm in the male body and that it needs to be preserved.

Not really, most explicitly it's in Leviticus 20:13. There is more. But it doesn't really matter, thank god, no one follows what bible says anyway. What is moral or not in christianity generally just follows wider trends with ~20 year old lag.

>but i dont think that portrayal in Video Games (western devil media) will persuade any of those people to change their stance.

Media is becoming more and more globalized, plently of muslims consumes western media. From what I heard, youth is considerably less religious and more wordly.

> What im saying is, nobody is int he position to force their beliefs on a majority. Trying to do so will only result in backlash

All changes will face backlash, especially from conservatives. Lots of conservatism can be summed up by - "yeah it's bad, but it's bad I know so let's not change it".

> Youll never fully get rid of it because how the human brain is rigged.

I try not to think in black and white. There is less discrimination now than it used to be, activism does work. Hopefully there will be even less in future.

> Especialy if their inclusion is, liek ti is in many of the "woke" media is at the detriment of characters representing the majority.

I agree, including minority characters can be done very unskilfuly and to detriment of the group. Opposite is also true.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665348
30/03/20 07:30 PM
30/03/20 07:30 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
qhristoff Online content
member
qhristoff  Online Content
member

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
There is incongruity with that argument, however. If it is about representation, then statistically speaking having minorities equally represented in all literature/video games/etc distills the lived reality by creating false pictures of life through the process of literary catharsis. Over-representation is as much an issue, which we see in the largely western, male oriented narratives (edit: meaning the over representation of white male narratives, just to clarify) - but it is likewise possible to over correct. I think over correction is what happened in the case of the "Force is Female" kind of marketing, for example.

I don't see issues with characters who are gay, straight, or anywhere in between, but I do see an issue with normalizing - in the statistical sense - outlying representations of sexuality in literature/games that are consumed by pre-pubescent audiences. I'm not a prude that thinks kids shouldn't know about sex, but I think offering answers to certain questions about sexuality prior to actual physical relevance is problematic. I think more precisely, as I am writing and thinking about it, is the mixture of sexuality with audiences who are classified as kids rather than young adults. It is an important distinction. And this leads in to parental responsibility to be informed of what your kids are up to, and support them while they explore who they are. This is why ratings exist, for the most part. To help parents guide their kids' choices of content consumption.

In itself, this is not an issue for creators making their stories, etc, it is a home issue. But the issue is dramatically exacerbated by the fact that there is no way to enforce ratings at the actual user level.

Me, personally, I find that if the romance doesn't actually have some importance to the narrative, then it is superfluous and masturbatory - wholly useless for anything other than self aggrandizement. Art should follow the KISS rule.


Last edited by qhristoff; 30/03/20 07:44 PM.
Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: Seraphael] #665349
30/03/20 07:34 PM
30/03/20 07:34 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 92
Rafoca Offline
journeyman
Rafoca  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 92
Originally Posted by Seraphael
Would agree STRONGLY to keep modern-day politics out of the game. Games are escapism, and in today's overly politicized world with radicalization and culture war, we may need a break more than ever before. That said, WotC is every bit as progressive/regressive a company as Bioware, and I fully expect them to nudge Larian in that direction.

Originally Posted by Rafoca
This is such a weird thread. Let devs make what they want. Politics are part of our lives.

Learn to deal with different opinions than yours, and in the process you may learn a thing or two

Hah! Did I hear the pot calling the kettle black? The issue is not about not tolerating different opinions, at least not the way you probably imagine it. This is about not wanting grating and unrelenting neo-moralizing propagandizing of ONE politically correct viewpoint inserted in a game that depends upon immersion. That's the opposite of pluralism you espouse.

Pathfinder: Kingmaker licensed by Paizo is a recent relevant example; about all the female characters were shallow radical feminist tropes. The oppression, oh the humanity, won't someone think of the women! Their Stream forum was zealously moderated by radicals who went on an ideological crusade against heretics. At one point like 1 in 10 (confirmation bias trigger warning) of the regulars was banned (at least I never saw so much posts for later banned people in my life) and warnings were handed out like a paedo hands out candy during Halloween lol.


My dude, but it's only weird if you make it weird, honestly. Believe me, I was in your place a couple of years back. Today I simply don't care. Some things I agree, some things I don't.

Imagine if everyone would give their two cents about what devs can say on their game's story and what thay can't.

But today I think what ruins games, and what we should REALLY care about, are games being released incomplete, full of bugs and lots of microtransactions.

Not being confrontanional, my man! Just saying I understand you, but it's not a big deal unless you make it be

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: qhristoff] #665350
30/03/20 07:51 PM
30/03/20 07:51 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
StrikerofStars Offline OP
stranger
StrikerofStars  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
Guys, I'm not going to read 72 posts because it's useless.

Please, let's NOT discuss our own opinions or chosen positions here because it's useless. No one is going to change anyone's opinion or position like this. This isn't like the human brain works. Everyone please keep it to themselves. Or create a new post.

Let me clarify the intention of my original post: just asking Larian to not destroy their game, spoil all the fun and destroy another franchise to follow certain political agenda. Star Wars has been destroyed, Ghostbusters has been destroyed, comics in general have been destroyed (Captain America being secretly a nazi all these years?) etc. BG1 and 2 have had no problem with it, Divinity 2 and Kingmaker had just a little bit of it but not in a manner that spoiled them, and Siege of Dragonspear was mostly ruined by it.

Remember Gamergate

People is here repeating all the time that "politics is in everything", despite I having addressed that already, so let me say it with other words: even if that was true, "politics being present" is DIFFERENT from "the game must focus on one-sided political propaganda and the artistic or entertainment value is secondary to our goals". Thing is simple: I don't want to keep hearing in every game how the free-market is terrible and how communism is so great and caring, and also I don't want those who think that to keep hearing in the same game the opposite.


Last edited by StrikerofStars; 30/03/20 07:59 PM.
Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665351
30/03/20 08:08 PM
30/03/20 08:08 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
qhristoff Online content
member
qhristoff  Online Content
member

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
Since none of us are experts, all we can discuss are our opinions and positions on the topic.

Kind of hypocritical of you to start a topic and then tell people not to discuss it.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: qhristoff] #665353
30/03/20 08:50 PM
30/03/20 08:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
StrikerofStars Offline OP
stranger
StrikerofStars  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
1) But I AM an expert. I have been reading and writing in the field of Political Philosophy for about 30 years now. 25 professionally. Most days since the start of it I have reached my goal of reading 450 pages per day, about 95% of it in that field. Make the math to check how many books those are. Over 1000 of those books/thesis I have read were written by communist philosophers. Have written three doctoral thesis about it so far. All of them have been approved with distinction.
As of the late few years I have been expanding that knowledge to areas like Evolutionary Psychology and Comportamental Neurosciences.

Being so much into that exact area is what makes me NOT want it in my entertainment. Even more so that 99% of those we see around there are included by (let's be honest) mentally impaired people who has no clue whatsoever about the topic, to the point that most of them think things like... That nazis are the same as conservatives and libertarians, for instance. Or that the snow is black, which is about the same amount of absurd (Bertrand Russell's reference, BTW).

2) I have not started a topic about politics, but a topic to ask the developers — for theirs and ours sake — not to destroy the fun we should have playing the game with propaganda.

3) Sorry, but I haven't TOLD you to stop discussing it. I have just asked pretty please to focus on the topic if you could. Sorry if that got out wrong, but sometimes it happens due to — as I have said already — my lack of proficiency in English.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665356
30/03/20 09:58 PM
30/03/20 09:58 PM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
qhristoff Online content
member
qhristoff  Online Content
member

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 127
You display a total lack of erudite argumentation for someone supposedly well versed in political philosophy.

You can keep espousing your opinions as palatable facts, but you will always be wrong in that regard.

The topic is politics in video games. The current political insertion in games is gender related. People therefore are talking about gender and politics in games.

You make the mistake of thinking that you have any authoritative control over your discussion thread, like an artist thinking they can force an audience to see their point of view.

That isn't how things work.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: StrikerofStars] #665357
30/03/20 10:12 PM
30/03/20 10:12 PM
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 50
Boeroer Offline
journeyman
Boeroer  Offline
journeyman

Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 50
Uh uh!

I am also an expert. Actually the best one because I have been with the university of I-read-it-on-the-internet for quite some time now as a fellow researcher in the field of being awesomest. I researched like... a lot. At least five thousand stuffs for about 40 years now. Make the meth to check out how much longer my intromittent organ is.

That's why you should really consider my hot takes.

Re: Could we PLEASE... [Re: qhristoff] #665359
31/03/20 12:31 AM
31/03/20 12:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
StrikerofStars Offline OP
stranger
StrikerofStars  Offline OP
stranger

Joined: Mar 2020
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by qhristoff
You display a total lack of erudite argumentation (...)
People are talking about gender (...)
You make the mistake of thinking that you have any authoritative control over your discussion thread


1) lack of mastery in your language, one could say.
2) I didn't say anything about "gender" nor I will, as I know that's a drop of water in the cultural war we live in the moment. It's meaningless, anything but a minor smoke screen for bigger subjects.
3) I don't think that. Don't infer my inner thoughts, please. All I said was "can you, please?"

Just by reading this thread can't you see it's a heated topic that brings intense emotions, and if inserted in any entertainment will spoil the fun for at least 50% of the people? Depending on how it's done will do it for up to 100%. My original post just asks for common sense.

Page 3 of 10 1 2 3 4 5 9 10

Moderated by  Freddo, vometia 

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.2