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Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667732
02/06/20 12:40 PM
02/06/20 12:40 PM
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Dragon_Master Offline
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Except its not a Divinity game. The combat system doesn't have the same mechanics. It's set in Faerun, not Rivellon. The races, classes and skills are all D&D related, not Divinity related.

There is nothing linking it to the Divinity games save for the fact that both have TB combat systems, and even then the mechanics are completely different.


"I used my last magic poo to check in on my daughter." Scanlan Shorthalt.
Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Madscientist] #667734
02/06/20 01:07 PM
02/06/20 01:07 PM
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TheInfinitySock Offline
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Originally Posted by Madscientist
Originally Posted by Sordak
Adressing the nonsense in this thread in no particular order.

. . .

. .

. . .
.
Absoluteley delusional.


I totally agree with you.

I think the main issue is the name: Baldurs Gate 3.
Things would be less dramatic if they called it "Divinity 3: the gate of baldur" (now with DnD 5E licence)
They called it BG3 to get as much attention as possible.
Lots of people talking about their product ( including several people who talk nonsense or who complain that the game does not look exactly how they imagined the successor of their favourite childhood game)
is way better for them than nobody talking about it.

I agree with you on the name it does look like a cash grab Larian would have been better off just making there own DND video game instead of trying to carry on the series


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Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: TheInfinitySock] #667736
02/06/20 02:12 PM
02/06/20 02:12 PM
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Dumgar Offline
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The fact that they choose to use the title "Baldur's gate 3" may not be in their favor. As we saw, a lot of baldur's gate fans are disapointed by the actual form of the game.

Since Baldur's gate 2, we had a lot of game from forgotten realms with different "atmosphere" and look. But using "baldur's gate 3" is a huge commitment. I have not doubt the game will sell well. They did it to expend the audience we all get it, they said that themselves. And maybe Larian does really love baldur's gate 1 & 2, maybe not.

They used their experience in divinity like a legacy for BG3 on the look, the assets (for now) etc.. And for some of us (we will see how much with the early access) it is hearthbreaking. It's hard to explain precisely why it doesn't fit, because it is a global feeling. It is not only the balance of exposure and usage of colors, or the turn by turn gameplay...

It is the sobriety of the gameplay, the ellegance of the decor and scenery. The quality of the writing that i didn't find from what i saw in the gameplay revealed. The color harmony; The feeling not to play a game in "tune with the times". The impression of a huge world even with only a few maps. The habilityand sharpness to make it coherent.

From a very personnal point a view, i found that last trailer absolutely ugly. If i did'nt know where it came from, i would've say it is for a new mobile MMO with good graphics. It is very personnal and i don't judge the dev for a short trailer, it was just a quick feeling.
Before the trailer i was confused, now i'm desperate ;)

They only thing they had to do is calling it something like "Forgotten realms : Avernum" (just an exemple). Because now it blocks the way to really create a more baldurish 3 game.

Sorry for my english ;) (not very english)

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: deathidge] #667738
02/06/20 05:43 PM
02/06/20 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by deathidge
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Just look at the BG 3 opening cinematic and the current gameplay and you can see the discrepancy.


No game has ever looked like a cinematic trailer.

You seriously cannot compare BG1 and 2 to BG3 in terms of aesthetic. The resolution alone kills any comparison that you might try to make. I bet if they had today's tech 20+ years ago, BG1 and 2 would have been A LOT different, probably unrecognizable from what they are. They didn't have access to what Larian has access to.


It has nothing to do with the resolution. And I am not even comparing to BG1/2.

It is about keeping the coherence they established on their own opening. And it is nothing really hard to fix or to achieve.

They are not doing (?yet) because they don't want to.

Last edited by IrenicusBG3; 02/06/20 05:48 PM.
Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: IrenicusBG3] #667739
02/06/20 06:01 PM
02/06/20 06:01 PM
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deathidge Offline
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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Originally Posted by deathidge
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Just look at the BG 3 opening cinematic and the current gameplay and you can see the discrepancy.


No game has ever looked like a cinematic trailer.

You seriously cannot compare BG1 and 2 to BG3 in terms of aesthetic. The resolution alone kills any comparison that you might try to make. I bet if they had today's tech 20+ years ago, BG1 and 2 would have been A LOT different, probably unrecognizable from what they are. They didn't have access to what Larian has access to.


It has nothing to do with the resolution. And I am not even comparing to BG1/2.

It is about keeping the coherence they established on their own opening. And it is nothing really hard to fix or to achieve.

They are not doing (?yet) because they don't want to.


What in the name of John Cena are you even saying? "keeping the coherence they established on their own opening?" Wtf does that even mean?

Everyone that is harping on their writing, like it's not as good as BG1 and 2...you literally haven't seen anything yet, not even a tenth of a percent of the game's writing.

Obviously they either don't want to spoil the actual 'Baldur's Gate' of the game, or they aren't ready to show it off yet. All we have seen is what is going to teach us about how to play the game basics; a starting area, simple fights to learn the different mechanics in the game like verticality, etc.

Muh it's not dark light BG1 and 2 - yea, because they had comparatively shitty software and literally couldn't get the lighting that tech nowadays can. You see one short clip of sunlight and freak tf out, it's pathetic really. This is Baldur's Gate 3. You may not like the direction but it's obviously the direction that the CREATORS of Baldur's Gate and the FR want it to go. At least wait for EA gameplay on Youtube where you can actually see more of the world and mechanics, etc, before tossing this in the proverbial garbage.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667740
02/06/20 06:38 PM
02/06/20 06:38 PM
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Sordak Offline
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>cashgrab
bruh
and here you people want to be taken seriously.
yeah sure, lets hire an entire extra studio and take on a highly ambitious project the likes weve never done, also shackle oursleves to a highly restirctive IP despite having a successfull one of our own, you know, make some quick cash.

lmao

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667744
02/06/20 08:22 PM
02/06/20 08:22 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Maybe the fans of the old games are not the game target audience anymore for reasons known by the Sales department. I mean, they are using D&D5e Assets, they are advertising modules of WOTC together (Descent into Avernus, etc), they are doing interviews together with WOTC CEOs, working with D&D5e creators, using the ruleset and the setting...

But I dont´remember them referencing the old BG games in any interview unless asked first (In one interview even Sven Vincke and Mike Merle didn´t remember the canon ending of the baalspawn crises), they didn´t make videos of "Sven Vinke playing the old bg games", didnt´hire any of the original game screenwriters, musicians,... didn´t use images of the old games and characters to advertise the game (Owlcat, for example, included two of the iconic characters of Pathfinder in the videogames, Amiri and Seelah),... didn´t take people from Black isle into the game-cons,... and they do none of the things that the PR department use to do to rally the old game fans.


Just food for thought.


Target Audience by priority IMHO.

D&D 5e fans
Forgotten Realms fans
Divinity fans
TBRPG fans
Traditional Baldur's Gate fans.

As both a 5e fan and even more so an FR fan and a TB fan its shocking to be in the target demographic for once because that nevet seems to jappen to me.


Sorry, I think @_Vic_ has the right of it. For me it is abundantly clear the target audience by priority are:

D:OS fans
Co-op fans
TB combat fans
Tabletop D&D 5e fans
<big gap>
FR fans
BG1/2 fans

with the last two groups not really important to the BG3 devs at all.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667745
02/06/20 08:28 PM
02/06/20 08:28 PM
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Eton, Berkshire, EU
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Which is why using BG3 as a marketing ploy might be considered impolite smile

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Dumgar] #667746
02/06/20 08:30 PM
02/06/20 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Dumgar


They used their experience in divinity like a legacy for BG3 on the look, the assets (for now) etc.. And for some of us (we will see how much with the early access) it is hearthbreaking. It's hard to explain precisely why it doesn't fit, because it is a global feeling. It is not only the balance of exposure and usage of colors, or the turn by turn gameplay...



Well said.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: etonbears] #667748
02/06/20 09:11 PM
02/06/20 09:11 PM
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Originally Posted by etonbears
Which is why using BG3 as a marketing ploy might be considered impolite smile


Absolutely. I agree. Calling it BG3 is so obviously a marketing ploy. BG3 has no relationship whatsoever to the first two games other than the use of the namesake city.

And as for the game's imagery, just go take a look at videos and trailers for Solasta. Solasta looks very much like a game set in the Forgotten Realms even though it is in reality not. Solasta's budget is a tiny fraction of BG3's huge AAA budget, and yet looks so much better and so much more like a true D&D/FR game.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: kanisatha] #667749
02/06/20 09:55 PM
02/06/20 09:55 PM
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deathidge Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
[quote=etonbears]Which is why using BG3 as a marketing ploy might be considered impolite smile


WoTC owns the Forgotten Realms and the fictitious city of Baldur's Gate, and they are working closely with Larian in all aspects of this game. Calling this a marketing ploy is an insult to every WoTC employee that is working with Larian to ensure that the game is true to D&D, Baldur's Gate, the Baldur's Gate story, etc.

Originally Posted by kanisatha
Absolutely. I agree. Calling it BG3 is so obviously a marketing ploy. BG3 has no relationship whatsoever to the first two games other than the use of the namesake city.


You haven't seen any of the story yet so you literally can't say there is no relationship to the first 2 games. All we know, literally, is that Swen confirmed that, in reality, there is deep and meaningful connections to both places and people from the first 2 games. It's set, what, one or two hundred years after BG2 so...a lot changes in the FR in that period of time. A lot.


Originally Posted by kanisatha
And as for the game's imagery, just go take a look at videos and trailers for Solasta. Solasta looks very much like a game set in the Forgotten Realms even though it is in reality not. Solasta's budget is a tiny fraction of BG3's huge AAA budget, and yet looks so much better and so much more like a true D&D/FR game.


Solasta, while I plan on following them and probably buying, looks no where near as clean as BG3. You can tell they have a much smaller budget. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing...but it most certainly does not look better than BG3 by any means.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: deathidge] #667750
02/06/20 10:27 PM
02/06/20 10:27 PM
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kanisatha Offline
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Originally Posted by deathidge
WoTC owns the Forgotten Realms and the fictitious city of Baldur's Gate, and they are working closely with Larian in all aspects of this game. Calling this a marketing ploy is an insult to every WoTC employee that is working with Larian to ensure that the game is true to D&D, Baldur's Gate, the Baldur's Gate story, etc.


Well, WotC has been insulting me for years now, with what they have done with the 4e and 5e versions of D&D, slashing and burning the FR setting, killing the FR novels, etc. So I have zero concern about insulting WotC right back. They are free to try and earn back my trust and my support, but going by BG3 I don't see this happening. They have written off all of their old(er) fans and now care only about their new fans (even though we older fans are the ones with any real money). So be it. I just hope I live to see the day when today's new fans are tomorrow's old fans who get to enjoy their turn getting thrown under the bus.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: kanisatha] #667751
02/06/20 11:56 PM
02/06/20 11:56 PM
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deathidge Offline
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by deathidge
WoTC owns the Forgotten Realms and the fictitious city of Baldur's Gate, and they are working closely with Larian in all aspects of this game. Calling this a marketing ploy is an insult to every WoTC employee that is working with Larian to ensure that the game is true to D&D, Baldur's Gate, the Baldur's Gate story, etc.


Well, WotC has been insulting me for years now, with what they have done with the 4e and 5e versions of D&D, slashing and burning the FR setting, killing the FR novels, etc. So I have zero concern about insulting WotC right back. They are free to try and earn back my trust and my support, but going by BG3 I don't see this happening. They have written off all of their old(er) fans and now care only about their new fans (even though we older fans are the ones with any real money). So be it. I just hope I live to see the day when today's new fans are tomorrow's old fans who get to enjoy their turn getting thrown under the bus.


lLol. 5E is by far their best financial edition. By far. And if you are such a disenfranchised fan wtf are you doing here

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: deathidge] #667752
03/06/20 01:26 AM
03/06/20 01:26 AM
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BG1/2 and Planescape Torment even with limited technology were able to create a very detailed, believable and "mature" world. 3D games already existed at their time and they wisely chose what would fit best to portray their universe. In my view, they still (artistically) look good today.


Originally Posted by deathidge
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Originally Posted by deathidge
Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
Just look at the BG 3 opening cinematic and the current gameplay and you can see the discrepancy.


No game has ever looked like a cinematic trailer.

You seriously cannot compare BG1 and 2 to BG3 in terms of aesthetic. The resolution alone kills any comparison that you might try to make. I bet if they had today's tech 20+ years ago, BG1 and 2 would have been A LOT different, probably unrecognizable from what they are. They didn't have access to what Larian has access to.


It has nothing to do with the resolution. And I am not even comparing to BG1/2.

It is about keeping the coherence they established on their own opening. And it is nothing really hard to fix or to achieve.

They are not doing (?yet) because they don't want to.


What in the name of John Cena are you even saying? "keeping the coherence they established on their own opening?" Wtf does that even mean?


Visual and atmosphere coherence. You can see that BG2 cutscenes/cinematics (even if they were awkward) are coherent both in atmosphere and color palette. BG3 instead, you go from a believable and mature representation of FR on the cinematic to an artificial colorful, shinning, unrealistic FR.

And regarding this last trailer, Larian clearly doesn't have any quality threshold to release materials. Hopefully by Saturday we will have a better sense which direction BG3 is going. Enough of this discussion and will see what else content they have.

Last edited by IrenicusBG3; 03/06/20 01:29 AM.
Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: kanisatha] #667753
03/06/20 01:49 AM
03/06/20 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by kanisatha
Originally Posted by Omegaphallic
Originally Posted by _Vic_
Maybe the fans of the old games are not the game target audience anymore for reasons known by the Sales department. I mean, they are using D&D5e Assets, they are advertising modules of WOTC together (Descent into Avernus, etc), they are doing interviews together with WOTC CEOs, working with D&D5e creators, using the ruleset and the setting...

But I dont´remember them referencing the old BG games in any interview unless asked first (In one interview even Sven Vincke and Mike Merle didn´t remember the canon ending of the baalspawn crises), they didn´t make videos of "Sven Vinke playing the old bg games", didnt´hire any of the original game screenwriters, musicians,... didn´t use images of the old games and characters to advertise the game (Owlcat, for example, included two of the iconic characters of Pathfinder in the videogames, Amiri and Seelah),... didn´t take people from Black isle into the game-cons,... and they do none of the things that the PR department use to do to rally the old game fans.


Just food for thought.


Target Audience by priority IMHO.

D&D 5e fans
Forgotten Realms fans
Divinity fans
TBRPG fans
Traditional Baldur's Gate fans.

As both a 5e fan and even more so an FR fan and a TB fan its shocking to be in the target demographic for once because that nevet seems to jappen to me.


Sorry, I think @_Vic_ has the right of it. For me it is abundantly clear the target audience by priority are:

D:OS fans
Co-op fans
TB combat fans
Tabletop D&D 5e fans
<big gap>
FR fans
BG1/2 fans

with the last two groups not really important to the BG3 devs at all.


A Venn diagram of these groups would basically be one big circle. Yes, I'm exaggerating, but not that much, there is far more overlap than outliers.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: IrenicusBG3] #667760
03/06/20 09:03 AM
03/06/20 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by IrenicusBG3
BG1/2 and Planescape Torment even with limited technology were able to create a very detailed, believable and "mature" world. 3D games already existed at their time and they wisely chose what would fit best to portray their universe. In my view, they still (artistically) look good today.



BG1+2 are standart fantasy stories, but they are done very well. Calling them mature (whatever this means) is a bit of a stretch. The most famous companion is a guy who talks to his hamster. The game uses many known fantasy tropes. The main story of BG2 ( bad mage kidnaps my girlfriend) has been told countless times.
The games are done very well and I enjoy them a lot, but if you ask me for a very good mature RPG, I tell you to play the witcher series.

The graphics of BG1+2 are good and I still like to play them. 3D graphics existed at that time, but they were huge polygon blocks. Old 3D games look terrible today while old games in 2D or cartoon style still look relatively good today. I played NWN1 some time ago and in the beginning I had to force myself to play because the huge polygons are so ugly. On the other hand, I still like chrone trigger, for example.
Another example is Alundra for PS1. The first game looked like Zelda for SNES and it was great, I wish I could play it again. They used 3D for the second game and it looked terrible.
Regarding BG1+2 the devs did the right choice. The games are huge. Making a 3D game at this time was lots of efford and the result was still ugly. Having a good looking and easy to make 2D game (You just have to paint the background instead of building the world out of many polygons when number, size and color of them was limited) was better than doing an ugly 3D game.

Today, nobody make a huge 2D RPG unless they call it pixel art. A modern large scale RPG needs good full 3D graphics, so any new game will look different than BG1+2.

As for PST, regarding characters, story and setting it is one of the best games ever. Game mechanics wise it was terrible. They used a combat focussed system for a story focussed game.
From my current point of view, the gameplay system of Disco Elysium ( which I consider the best true successor of PST) is much better for such a game than DnD 2E.


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Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667762
03/06/20 09:18 AM
03/06/20 09:18 AM
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Sordak Offline
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I honestly fail to see why anyone would care about you as a demographic.
You cannot be satiated, youll never be happy and you willl whine and seethe at the slightest misconduct agaisnt your perfect product that only exists in your head and that is seperate from the same "perfect product" in the head of every other one of you.

you did this to yourselves.


But yeah keep going on about your "mature" artstyle, which also only exists in your nostalgia poisoned brain.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Sordak] #667764
03/06/20 09:43 AM
03/06/20 09:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Sordak
I honestly fail to see why anyone would care about you as a demographic.
You cannot be satiated, youll never be happy and you willl whine and seethe at the slightest misconduct agaisnt your perfect product that only exists in your head and that is seperate from the same "perfect product" in the head of every other one of you.



I think this is demonstrably false, given that a lot of people are bringing up more or less consistent objections repeatedly. It's annoying when, just because you liked something a long time ago, someone dismisses any objection to a new imagining as invalid because of nostalgia. And since most of us played the games as adults too it doesn't really seem to hold water.

I don't think anyone's dissatisfied because the product on offer as we've seen it so far isn't perfect, I think we're dissatisfied because it's not checking many, if any, of the boxes for a faithful sequel of an established series. As I've said, I'd be willing to overlook a lot of flaws or changes if there were just a few things done right.

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Omegaphallic] #667765
03/06/20 10:29 AM
03/06/20 10:29 AM
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Sordak Offline
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>consistent objections
half of which are parroting somehting that so far has not proven to be an actual thing.
such as the much parroted Colour palette or artstyle thing, which i have disproven twice now and nobody actually bothers to back it up.

the other thing is RTWP combat, which lets be frank, isnt happening.

And on anything else you cannot actually agree on.
Some of you want it to be "dark and mature", but somehow you still want it to look like BG1 and 2, some want it to be a 2D game, some want it to be a 3D game, some dont want larian developing it at all.
some want to stick to 2E rules, some are fine with 5E but dont want rules alterations at all. Some of you explode at the thought of multiplayer while others want it cause BG1 and 2 had it.

You fundamentally cannot actually boil down your vision beyonda nything that is "RTWP and stroking my nostalgia boner"
But you forget that nostalgia is different for every person and things are interpreted differently.

For a personal example, im disatisifed with many reimaginings of morrowind because they keep making the landscape lush.
for many people the "imaginary" morrowind always had tons of foliage because there were tree modles in morrowind, only they looked very barren due to graphical limitations.
For me, morrowind always looked barren and almost desert like because i took said graphical limitations as an intention of design (which it might have been)
So whose right now? Whose vision is correct?
Nobodys is, because your brain interprets what you see differently.

I mean for crying out loud, so many of you somehow look at the ye olde england bright green garden landscapes of BG1 and somehow see "gritty dark" fantasy. Because thats how your brain imagined it.
You cannot win against imagination.

all those boxes you want checked dont exist.
Theres only one you can agree on, and that ones basically a sacred cow

Re: New Baldur's Gate 3 Teaser Trailer [Re: Sordak] #667767
03/06/20 11:24 AM
03/06/20 11:24 AM
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[quote=Sordak
I mean for crying out loud, so many of you somehow look at the ye olde england bright green garden landscapes of BG1 and somehow see "gritty dark" fantasy. Because thats how your brain imagined it.
You cannot win against imagination.
[/quote]

Those things aren't necessarily mutually exclusive, though. You can have just as much darkness and grit, or just as much of a lack, in the DOS style's brighter areas or in BG's, but the resulting impression of the style from each combination is bound to differ.

I know what you're saying, of course people have varying expectations and they're not all going to be satisfied, but this isn't justification for simply throwing out everything and doing whatever you want with no regard to any of the pre-existing hallmarks. The check boxes do exist, some are simply more easily defined than others.

There is an objective list of criteria (including things like RTwP as you say, UI, number of party members, resemblance across the board to DOS) mixed in with more subjective aspects like the atmosphere and lighting and how they affect the game. The difficulty being that people prioritise that list according to their own views, and also the fact that pretty much none of these boxes have been checked at all makes people far more critical across the board and with reference to aspects that are harder to quantify and define.

But however you look at it there's a certain degree of fidelity that people expect when you seek to continue a series and it just doesn't seem to be there in any aspect of it.

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