So if I understand correctly, Paladin is not going to be one of the half-dozen classes available to choose from in EA?
Shame given the history/tradition going back to 1st PHB, yet Wizard and Sorcerer will both be available?
Anyone else bummed about that?
Really looking forward to the game and totally get hard choices were made to roll out EA asap, but still a bummer we’ll need to wait till full release. I have been a fan since Obsidian/Black Isle days, started playing P&P in 1st Ed AD&D and on PC in C64 Pool of Radiance era :)
It's unavoidable that some favourite classes will be missing in EA. The boon is, that if you really like Paladins you can play with less interesting for you classes in EA, and then create you paladin for the actual full game!
probably still figuring out a way to balance the game with insane smite damage, healing and casting, high HP and social stats on a single character. paladin is pretty god tier past level 3, well untill full casters take over
At least we know that we will have Paladins in the end. It would be cool if we have the same certainty with artificer, bloodhunter, or some subclasses.
At least we know that we will have Paladins in the end. It would be cool if we have the same certainty with artificer, bloodhunter, or some subclasses.
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
...And six years after release WOTC still does not fix it (like the lucky feat, ranger class or the abjurer-warlock with the cloak of shadows, The fact that you can use action surge with spells, etc) so I think this is intended or they do not fix it because it could create a backlash.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
And also you can use it many times as long as you have spells available to continue smiting in the same round. Other features, like rogue´s sneak or monks`furry of blows you can only use once per round
(I.E: a Paladin at 9th level attacking with a longsword can do a total of 10d8 damage (+ str modifier doubled) against a baddie in one round with no save (ie. two attacks at 1d8 [longsword] plus 4d8 [3rd level spell slot] each). If his opponent is undead or devilish that goes up to 12d8 total per round When the Paladin gets improved Divine Smite at 11th level he could deal 14d8 damage in one round to an undead/devil foe– and who hasn’t fought in campaigns where many foes are under that descriptor like Curse of Stradh, Descent into Avernus or Tomb of annihilation?)
...And six years after release WOTC still does not fix it (like the lucky feat, ranger class or the abjurer-warlock with the cloak of shadows, The fact that you can use action surge with spells, etc) so I think this is intended or they do not fix it because it could create a backlash.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
And also you can use it many times as long as you have spells available to continue smiting in the same round. Other features, like rogue´s sneak or monks`furry of blows you can only use once per round.
I'd say that the revised Ranger and Gloom Stalker kinda fixed the class. Though yes, this also creates a new issue in that GS is so much better than the other rangers that choosing another subclass doesn't make sense mechanically.
I hope not, because If not I foresee MP games full of characters with warlock and paladin levels. And warlock-paladins. And if they include a Holy avenger in BG3, you can leave it at "Pallys only"
...And six years after release WOTC still does not fix it (like the lucky feat, ranger class or the abjurer-warlock with the cloak of shadows, The fact that you can use action surge with spells, etc) so I think this is intended or they do not fix it because it could create a backlash.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
And also you can use it many times as long as you have spells available to continue smiting in the same round. Other features, like rogue´s sneak or monks`furry of blows you can only use once per round.
I'd say that the revised Ranger and Gloom Stalker kinda fixed the class. Though yes, this also creates a new issue in that GS is so much better than the other rangers that choosing another subclass doesn't make sense mechanically.
We know that Larian has it's own fixes for the Ranger class, I look forward to the details on that.
So if I understand correctly, Paladin is not going to be one of the half-dozen classes available to choose from in EA?
Shame given the history/tradition going back to 1st PHB, yet Wizard and Sorcerer will both be available?
Anyone else bummed about that?
Really looking forward to the game and totally get hard choices were made to roll out EA asap, but still a bummer we’ll need to wait till full release. I have been a fan since Obsidian/Black Isle days, started playing P&P in 1st Ed AD&D and on PC in C64 Pool of Radiance era
No, it's WARLOCK, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric upon EA launch. And as we go through the EA Larian will be adding more classes and races to it right up to launch, when all the classes will be available.
So if I understand correctly, Paladin is not going to be one of the half-dozen classes available to choose from in EA?
Shame given the history/tradition going back to 1st PHB, yet Wizard and Sorcerer will both be available?
Anyone else bummed about that?
Really looking forward to the game and totally get hard choices were made to roll out EA asap, but still a bummer we’ll need to wait till full release. I have been a fan since Obsidian/Black Isle days, started playing P&P in 1st Ed AD&D and on PC in C64 Pool of Radiance era
No, it's WARLOCK, Wizard, Ranger, Rogue, Fighter, Cleric upon EA launch. And as we go through the EA Larian will be adding more classes and races to it right up to launch, when all the classes will be available.
It's unavoidable that some favourite classes will be missing in EA. The boon is, that if you really like Paladins you can play with less interesting for you classes in EA, and then create you paladin for the actual full game!
Yeah I was thinking about that, Wormerine, will be fun to try out some classes or the pregenerated ones of classes I don’t usually play.
the way the game is set up turns this into a "clickable icon", look at the Battlemaster Fighter moves. They are all clickable things on the hotbar, seperate from basic attacks.
in that case i htink divine smite will work the same, you declare smite BEFORE the attack.
Imagine how cumbersome itd be otherwise, everytime you would attck the game would pause and ask you if you want to smite
...And six years after release WOTC still does not fix it (like the lucky feat, ranger class or the abjurer-warlock with the cloak of shadows, The fact that you can use action surge with spells, etc) so I think this is intended or they do not fix it because it could create a backlash.
Originally Posted by Danielbda
What makes Divine Smite too strong is that you can choose to use it AFTER the attack roll. Most abilities that trigger on attack rolls have to be used before and this was never updated.
And also you can use it many times as long as you have spells available to continue smiting in the same round. Other features, like rogue´s sneak or monks`furry of blows you can only use once per round
(I.E: a Paladin at 9th level attacking with a longsword can do a total of 10d8 damage (+ str modifier doubled) against a baddie in one round with no save (ie. two attacks at 1d8 [longsword] plus 4d8 [3rd level spell slot] each). If his opponent is undead or devilish that goes up to 12d8 total per round When the Paladin gets improved Divine Smite at 11th level he could deal 14d8 damage in one round to an undead/devil foe– and who hasn’t fought in campaigns where many foes are under that descriptor like Curse of Stradh, Descent into Avernus or Tomb of annihilation?)
Yes, the paladin is able to give a decent and consistent damage output it still requires the right scenario: melee & and spellslots.
The rogue can do sneak attack every round given the right circumstances...forever. at both melee and range. Also, the rogue can hide after each attack using cunning action. On top of that the rogue receives 3 feats at 4th, 8th, 10th level. Further more the rogue can halve damage using uncanny Dodge, and evasion. Last but not least the rogue receives two expertise which doubles the proficiency bonus during level 1-10.
An wizard can do plenty of damage, using a fireball and plenty of enemies with in a small area. On top of that the wizard can cast hold person which essentially is a 1st level power word kill. Once held they are dead. And last but not least, magic missile as evocation has and insane damage output with no chance of saving or mitigating it. Unless you happen to be a wizard.
What's the point of this? Simply put: you cannot compare damage output cross class as it depends on the scenario and the resources available at the time.
Stating that paladins are OP is a ridiculous statement. It depends on the scenario and the point of view. Smite is a part of the class and should not be meddled with.
Just to be clear I have played: warlock, wizard, paladins, ranger in DND5e in pen and paper. I have no problem with any of them except perhaps the ranger with is rather bland.
Last edited by Sequenze; 04/07/2007:29 AM. Reason: Typos.
Sneak attack is also required for the rogue to be good in melee. People act as if sneak attack damage is somehow this overpowered thing.
Rogues are weak as fuck skillmonkeys and the fact that they can, under certain circumstances, deal some damage is the reason the class isnt as bad as ranger is.
Imagine a rogue only dealt damage with a dagger, thats a 1d4, whats he gonna do with that?
>OP Im not saying Paladins are OP compared to full casters. Im saying Paladins are realy good in early game because they can cast spells, have tons fo HP AND have tons of damage AND heal AND have high AC (which is irrelevant in 5e admittedly)
But they could just make it so you don't expend a spell slot unless you hit the target and it'd be close to how it works in PnP.
Yeah I was also thinking how as they showed the ability to pre-program reactions if they might do something like this with Smite. Also having a toggled ability icon would be cool.
On a sep topic, I have to say as a old school P&P player, was very pleased with 5e that paladins don’t have to wait till 9th lvl to start getting spell slots. For me, this helps realize the RP healing/party buff aspects & expectations for my pally - but I get where this might contribute to some concerns expressed here about the class being overpowered.
What Oath paths are folks leaning toward? Will have to be the “traditional†Devotion path for me
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